It's not that I don't like the Forgotten Realms. I just don't want to run a campaign there. And its hard seeing so much Greyhawk based material being ripped out of context to support another world. How can a world without Mordenkainen have spells that bear his name?
So what's the deal? Why not just give us Greyhawk fans what we want: Greyhawk. I wish Wizards of the Coast would stop trying to sell me on new worlds when they haven't yet published the definitive D&D world itself.
Is the 30th anniversary going to change any of this?
Yes, I know, those issues were taken care of by WotC lawyers since then but, for a time, it proved an issue. Going back to TSR's golden days, it sure p***** Gygax off to be thrown out of the company he helped create!
Plus you have to understand that the marketing dpt will always call the big shots.
When they started publishing FR novels, it attracted a whole new fan base that, in turn, created a demand for FR materials.
In comparison, GH had only 2 Gygax novels (which, thanks to TSR, went out of print rather fast), and a bunch of Wolf Nomad novels which just couldn't compare to the "new" heroes such as Drizzt.
For a time, TSR pumped so many new settings on the market that many loyal GH fans were "distracted" and tried them out. Ravenloft, Al-Qadim, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Birthright, .. you name it.
When TSR went down the drain along with its dozen alternative settings and WotC had to clean up the mess, GH was considered dead and buried like the others.
It's only now, years after, that the incredible support shown by fans for this setting proves that it was a bad decision.
People now turn to the old GH modules, request update of the setting and yell a little louder every year. Heck, the RPGA most successful campaign is set in GH!
Yet, does WotC hear? That remains to be seen .. but with the coming of Eberron, I have my doubts... :sad:
I assume there are probably people like this who are fans of FR as well, but TSR set the expectation that they'd be continually developing FR while the expectations of GH, being more lightly detailed, were set the other way... that the DM would have the main job of detailing it. So I wouldn't be surprised if GH fans are actually more resistant to official publications that make major changes in the first place.
Also, of the various groups I've experienced on the web and though listservs, the absolute worst when it comes to harping about canon and criticizing deviations have been GH and Traveller groups. I can't really explain fully why but that has been my experience.
So if I were WotC, I'd consider keeping GH at arm's length too.
So, I can imagine that adventures set in FR sell better, it's as simple as that. It also has a lot more to do with the fact that adventures don't sell at all, really. So, WOTC basically decided to avoid publishing adventures that weren't "mega-adventures". So, the only books they have left are sourcebooks. Sourcebooks don't make much money, either, unless they have a lot of "crunch" in them.
WOTC employees were talking about this before, some of the FR books that mostly were background and world information sold so poorly that it wasn't worth making them. Someone made the decision to include a lot more crunch in the books.
And, since GH is the default setting, in theory, all of the prestige classes, feats, spells, etc in the Complete Warrior, and Complete Divine are all designed with GH in mind (and just generic enough to use in any other setting). So, basically EVERY book is GH crunch, and GH fluff would sell worse than FR fluff.
Majoru Oakheart
- No one at WotC is particularly fond of Greyhawk (whereas Erik Mona at Dungeon is).
- Publishing many campaign settings contributed to the fall of TSR, and won't be repeated quickly.
- The sword-and-sorcery feel of the WoG may be felt to be not shiny and trendy enough to appeal to young players.
- The existing Greyhawk fanbase isn't unified.
- WotC has high overheads and Hasbro demands big profit margins, making it not capable of publishing books that will have a solid appeal but not an across-the-board one. (Eberron is a big gamble that it will be a massive success, not 'just another campaign setting'.)
WOTC employees were talking about this before, some of the FR books that mostly were background and world information sold so poorly that it wasn't worth making them.
I don't believe we know this. We know Lords of Darkness sold less well than Magic of Faerûn, but the obvious reason for that is that it was more DM-targeted. The 'crunch=money' thing is as much dogma as observed fact.
So, I can imagine that adventures set in FR sell better, it's as simple as that.
not really (if we are talking about adventures)... there is areason why WotC stopped making adventure modules... they thought the above staement was correct as well, but the sales figures from several items with the Fr logo (City of the Spiderqueen, POR) showed them that adventure modules do not sell well no matter what logo is on the cover.
I don't believe we know this. We know Lords of Darkness sold less well than Magic of Faerûn, but the obvious reason for that is that it was more DM-targeted. The 'crunch=money' thing is as much dogma as observed fact.
it can also be inffered from the way the regional books have gone... Silver Marches was mostly fluff with a few PrC's, Monsters, and other cruch when observed against the over all work... Unaproachable East had much more crunch to fluff ratio.. and when we get to Underdark litteraly half the book is crunch... it is an observable trend, although if the reasoning behind it is as SKR has indicated or not is a guess at best.
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
it can also be inffered from the way the regional books have gone... Silver Marches was mostly fluff with a few PrC's, Monsters, and other cruch when observed against the over all work... Unaproachable East had much more crunch to fluff ratio.. and when we get to Underdark litteraly half the book is crunch... it is an observable trend, although if the reasoning behind it is as SKR has indicated or not is a guess at best.
I believe SKR said that they had given him the numbers (I'm working on memory here, but I swear he said they had) and that Silver Marches had sold about half of what Magic of Faerun did.
Of course, that in understandable, I bought MOF, because I figured it would have spells and magic items in it that I could adapt to any campaign I wanted (which it did). I didn't buy SM, because I assumed it would have mostly setting specific information on FR, which I don't play.
As a side note, I do subscribe, as articulated above, that there are some brutally verbose and belligerent Greyhawk fans out there. Of course, there are not many and I do not assume to make a sweeping generalization. But when those angry, bitter personalities do manifest to villify an author or a product, I am sure it gives anyone a reason to be disinclined to work with Greyhawk in any commecial endeavor. I would not use the word "psychotic" - short-sighted, selfish greyhawk Nazi, perhaps, is a more suitable phrase.
selfish greyhawk Nazi
That'd be me ;)
I articulate a clear distinction between Living Greyhawk and Greyhawk.
But when those angry, bitter personalities do manifest to villify an author or a product, I am sure it gives anyone a reason to be disinclined to work with Greyhawk in any commecial endeavor.
Hell... If WotC asked me to write a greyhawk product I would do so quite happily... despite the knowledge that some vocal buttholes on the internet would say bad stuff about me... they ccould villify me all they wanted, I would still smile on the way to the bank with my check from WotC... a writer who is afraid to write something because of what a few people might say about what he wrote needs to be in a different line of work... you will never please everybody with what you write... and there will always be a few poeople out there trying to tear you down, (mostly to make themselves seem bigger and more important in thier own tiny minds).
Originally posted by Burgoyne
Seriously, WHY is Greyhawk, the world those on this Forum have come to know and love, such a pariah when it comes to Wizards of the Coast? Dungeon magazine seems content to publish what seems to be primarily Greyhawk centered material. Why not the company that gave it birth? I'm sure this is a discussion we've all had time and again. But is there any sort of legal reason?
AFAIC, WotC have not totally given up on Greyhawk since they incorporated many of the GH-specific material into their D&D "core" products.
But if you're asking why they don't make a separate product line as FR, beats me. Initially, RPGA was supposed to be the Greyhawk line developer. But funding for the development was cut off when WotC underwent a major company restructuring back in Winter of 2000/2001 (it coincided with Hasbro's Great Layoff for parent company and subsidiaries like WotC). All RPGA managed to release was the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.
So what's the deal? Why not just give us Greyhawk fans what we want: Greyhawk. I wish Wizards of the Coast would stop trying to sell me on new worlds when they haven't yet published the definitive D&D world itself.
You're gonna have to write to them, and if enough people who wrote to them want Greyhawk as a separate product line, then maybe they'll reconsider. As for the new world, they can't stop the momentum that started with a contest two years ago.
Is the 30th anniversary going to change any of this?
Too early to tell.
Maybe they'll consider that?
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
If WotC asked me to write a greyhawk product I would do so quite happily...
And I will happily pay for your work, Wes. You've done some great stuff at CanonFire.
I've tried to buy every Greyhawk product I can to support the setting - no matter the author or type of product. I am sure there is not much one person can do. But, I still put my money in the cash register for Greyhawk. That's why I support Living Greyhawk too - to support Greyhawk as a whole. I'll work to keep the setting alive from any angle. I am a Greyhawk pimp like that.
On another note, I feel badly for my "Nazi" comment above. Rash, thoughtless comments like that don't help. I'm rebuking the jerks of the Internet and then drop words like Nazi in? C'mon, Don. I know better than that. Sorry, fellas. I actually think that the Greyhawk "community" has been pretty dang helpful and friendly to each other, recently. And I am glad for that. I think all you guys are pretty dang cool and I wish you all lived closer to me - there'd be some epic gaming, that's for sure.
War Greyhawk!
But if you're asking why they don't make a separate product line as FR, beats me. Initially, RPGA was supposed to be the Greyhawk line developer. But funding for the development was cut off when WotC underwent a major company restructuring back in Winter of 2000/2001 (it coincided with Hasbro's Great Layoff for parent company and subsidiaries like WotC).
That assumption is incorrect.
They (RPGA) are developing Greyhawk as initially intended through various triads, petty-writers, and web designers.
All RPGA managed to release was the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.
Also incorrect.
Living Greyhawk Journals
Heck one of the most popular articles on canonfire.com is my Elves of Oerth article which received the most criticism and at the same time some of the highest of praises. If I was to take any of these remarks personally that probably would of ended my contributions to canonfire.com.
The only bad feedback is one that doesn't explain what was wrong with the book,article,sourcebook,& etc. If you want to blast me please do so in words other than it stinks, it sucks, no drow that's stupid. Because then I think your the writer of the original Hulk comic. How many times can Hulk smash be used before another form of dialouge can be utilized.
Get the point!
They (RPGA) are developing Greyhawk as initially intended through various triads, petty-writers, and web designers.
Abyss, according to Sean the RPGA was supposed to release a book every year or some such... which it nover got to do becasue of funding cuts, I believe that is what the initial poster was speaking of.
Originally posted by Coldpenguin625
I'll write them a Greyhawk product CHEAP! Seriously, I'd do it for free as long as my name was on the cover, the bragging rights would mean more to me than anything else heh.
Maybe they'll consider that?
That depends. You got any writing credentials? Prior writing experience?
Because if you don't have any credibility -- and trust me we gamers are a very unforgiving bunch as seen throughout the messageboards -- then that's what we'll get, CHEAP quality material that cost $35 more, and an author's name attached to infamy.
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
Abyss, according to Sean the RPGA was supposed to release a book every year or some such... which it nover got to do becasue of funding cuts, I believe that is what the initial poster was speaking of.
I'd trust Erik Mona's statements on the matter more than SKR's in this case. Erik was the guy in charge of the Living Greyhawk campaign at the time, and he's, to my knowledge, never said that any such thing was ever promised. Hoped for by those involved? maybe, probably even, but not promised.
Contrary to popular belief, WotC and the RPGA have delivered everything they officially promised for Greyhawk in 3e D&D, and more. We were promised the D&D Gazetteer, we got it. We were promised the expanded version of that book, the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (which by the way, contrary to an earlier statement, was not written by RPGA volunteers; Mona, Holian, Reynolds, Weining and Moore were solicited by WotC to write it as the foundation for the LG campaign, not the other way around) and we got it. RPGA members were promised a Greyhawk magazine, in the form of a bi-monthly Living Greyhawk Journal, they got it, then the rest of us got a bonus treat when that magazine merged with Dragon and then Dungeon to be available to everyone. Erik Mona has continued to deliver on that deal with regular Greyhawk material in Dungeon. We were also promised Greyhawk material in the form of the core 3e rule books. We got that too. Sure, the stuff in the 'big 3' rule books is sparse and generally of the 'random noun generator' level of content, but the other books, like the class books, Manual of the Planes, Deities & Demigods, etc contain various amounts of actual content for Greyhawk.
The content of the LGJ, Core Books and RPGA stuff may not agree with our visions of Greyhawk, and it may be 'watered down' compared to the level of setting specificity in FR books, but it is there, and WotC has delivered on what was promised. Futhermore, LG is hugely sucessful and popular, so despite the dislike some of us, myself included, have for their efforts, it seems to be working out well for WotC, Paizo and the RPGA.
Originally posted by Ranger REG
That depends. You got any writing credentials? Prior writing experience?
Because if you don't have any credibility -- and trust me we gamers are a very unforgiving bunch as seen throughout the messageboards -- then that's what we'll get, CHEAP quality material that cost $35 more, and an author's name attached to infamy.
That's a bit judgemental, don't you think?
Author name value is a big factor in the way RPG companies do business, but IMO, a handful of diehard fans of specific writers aside, most of those of us buying the books care little about the names attached.
It's also worth noting that authors have to get their start somewhere, and now and then a 'nobody' puts out something great. Whoever heard of Erik Mona, Gary Holian or Fred Weining before the LGG came out (aside from the 4 or 5 hundred subscribers to the GreyTalk discussion group for the last 9 years)? Whoever heard of Mark Rein-Hagen before Vampire: The Masquerade debuted? Whoever heard of Richard Garfield before Magic: The Gathering changed the face of the gaming hobby?
I'd trust Erik Mona's statements on the matter more than SKR's in this case. Erik was the guy in charge of the Living Greyhawk campaign at the time, and he's, to my knowledge, never said that any such thing was ever promised.
I was just explaining to Abyss what the other poster was talking about. To my knowledge Erik hasn't said anything about the subject one way or another.... maybe somebody should ask him tonight if he shows up for the chat.
I was brought to WotC in 1999 to be the RPGA's "Publications Coordinator." That meant, essentially, that I would edit Polyhedron (and eventually the LGJ, though that didn't exist at the time of my hiring). It also meant that I would coordinate the publication of the Network's annual "free" members-only adventure, a program that had started a few years earlier with an adventure called "Star of Kholipur" (or something) and continued with a Forgotten Realms adventure called "Kidnapped!" and a D&D adventure called "Wand of Archael." These were uniformly updated from "retired" tournament modules pulled from the RPGA's extensive tournament library.
I came to WotC with the understanding that I would also be in charge of RPGA-branded products released by the core D&D group (a la "Moonlight Madness" a year or so earlier). It became very clear to me shortly after arriving, however, that this type of product was not likely to exist after the company trimmed down its offerings immediately preceeding and following the launch of third edition.
As the plans for Living Greyhawk heated up, we in the RPGA explored tying the annual free adventure to the nascent campaign. To this end I even initiated discussions with Gary Gygax about releasing Castle Greyhawk as a special RPGA product, but those discussions fell apart after Gary wanted royalties and WotC expressed no interest whatsoever in the project. Instead, my first free annual member adventure was "The Fright at Tristor," a Living Greyhawk adventure set in the Theocracy of the Pale. We'd intended to publish additional 32-page Living Greyhawk modules every year, but budget cuts eliminated that program very shortly after I arrived on the scene.
The following is the complete list of RPGA-related Greyhawk products released during my tenure as the Network's publications coordinator:
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer
The Fright at Tristor (adventure)
Living Greyhawk Journal #0 (bundled with Dragon #274)
Living Greyhawk Journal #1
Living Greyhawk Journal #2
Living Greyhawk Journal #3
Living Greyhawk Journal #4
Living Greyhawk Journal #5
The "Greyhawk Gazetteer" product was a distillation of the LGG by the D&D core design team, who feared customer reaction to a thick world book. To the mid-30-something designers and managers at Wizards, Greyhawk as a whole was essentially little more than the original folio, and there was a strong feeling that that's all it should be in order to allow future designers maximum flexibility. The detailed continuity-rich stuff would be left to the RPGA, whereas the core needed a sleeker world and a much smaller product.
I note the inclusion of a lot more Greyhawk material in "The Complete Divine," and the "Giants of Legend" miniatures set, so it appears as though some folks in R&D have warmed to more "core world" references in the core rulebooks. The main focus for now, however, is on Eberron, so a new Greyhawk sourcebook is very unlikely in the foreseeable future.
--Erik Mona
Originally posted by chatdemon The content of the LGJ, Core Books and RPGA stuff may not agree with our visions of Greyhawk, and it may be 'watered down' compared to the level of setting specificity in FR books, but it is there, and WotC has delivered on what was promised. Futhermore, LG is hugely sucessful and popular, so despite the dislike some of us, myself included, have for their efforts, it seems to be working out well for WotC, Paizo and the RPGA. [/b]
I honestly fail to see why there is such dislike of LG, people are playing and discovering GH. It must be a good thing. It is working well though, play numbers are up every year and we're gradually adding more regions in Europe. GH conquers the world by stealth
As for Eriks post, we enjoyed Fright when we played it but the inept manner in which it was handled wrt getting rewards back from the RPGA and the subsequent complaints must have contributed to its removal. It wasn't done well at all which was a real shame because the product was good.
Now Eberron is here and GH is even further away, I don't get it as thousands play GH every week just counting LG, there must be a market there somewhere but I'm obviously not a marketing man.
Originally posted by chatdemon
That's a bit judgemental, don't you think?
To be brutally honest, it's the bitter truth.
Writing, like art, is subjective. Perhaps because we gamers are fickle when it comes to our favorite products. I mean, look at the Dark Sun thread. They're up in arms about the alleged mistreatment of their favorite setting in both Dragon and Dungeon magazines.
I'm afraid there will be criticisms over the upcoming World of Greyhawk adventure, Maure Castle by Gary Gygax and Robert Kuntz, to appear in Dungeon #112.
Erik Mona, assuming you'd be the editor, tread carefully.
Originally posted by StevieS
... people are playing and discovering GH. It must be a good thing. It is working well though, play numbers are up every year ...
Amen, brotha! Living Greyhawk has been a fantastic experience in Salt Lake City, Utah. And, we have CONDuit 14 this month featuring many LG scenarios. I unabashedly assert that LG is, as I noted above, vibrant and lots of fun. LG has brought new perception and a sense of reinvention to my personal GH outlook. I went to my first LG event last January just to poach players for my personal campaign! I ended up getting caught up in the fun at our bi-weekly events. I think it is better than nothing.
"[T]read carefully" ... What is that all about? Mona has been in this business a long time, mate. I trust him abundantly and he can stand on the merit of his years of experience. "[T]read carefully" indeed, this isn't ENWorld. The hard working people at Dungeon Magazine are appreciated here.
Unlike REG I think you have to try to put stuff out there, and if some of the fans don't like it... well then tough poope to them. Once you realize that no matter what you write a segment of your target audience is not going to like it... whether it is Eberrorn, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Darksun, what ever... then it becomes obvious that if you let the few naysayers dictate what is being written then there is nothing going to be written at all, and the silent majority that will account for most of your sales are the ones losing out.
Originally posted by Ranger REG
That depends. You got any writing credentials? Prior writing experience?
Because if you don't have any credibility -- and trust me we gamers are a very unforgiving bunch as seen throughout the messageboards -- then that's what we'll get, CHEAP quality material that cost $35 more, and an author's name attached to infamy.
Well no I don't have any writing credentials, I'm 16 although if you really want look Here that's one of mine. Also, as for prior experience, how much did the dude that wrote Eberron have? Yeah, like none, or Ed Greenwood when he first came up with the Forgotten Realms? or Gygax when he came up with Greyhawk? To say you need something written in order to write is kind of um...not exactly true if you ask me.
every major article pertaining to greyhawk that comes out is a cause for excitement to me. in fact spaced out over the year i have more to look forward to than if WotC gave us one or two big books a year.
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
you can't please everybody all of the time, so to try is doomed to failure...Unlike REG I think you have to try to put stuff out there, and if some of the fans don't like it... well then tough poope to them.
I also agree. I have been playing for more years then I can shake a stick at and the shift the 3rd ed. was admittedly tough. (heck the shift to 2nd. was tough as well, then to skills and powers, now to 3.5, next to... sorry got lost in a train of thought.) Anyway, one of the things that is most critical for me is that I take and use what I want from the settings and the rules. The more stuff out there, the more I can choose from. I think the reason "some" of the Greyhawk fans have a hard time with change is that they are more than likely long time gamers who actually did play the 1st stuff out there and just have a hard time with loosing that Nastalgic feeling. But the funny part is, we keep buying anyway. So Wes is right. We need to keep having stuff put out for us and those that with ears to hear will hear and those without won't. They can just keep playing their old torn up modules with the covers comming off, oh wait, thats me! Please redo these!!!!!
Originally posted by Coldpenguin625
Well no I don't have any writing credentials, I'm 16 although if you really want look Here that's one of mine. Also, as for prior experience, how much did the dude that wrote Eberron have? Yeah, like none,
It can be argued that Keith Baker (no relation to Richard Baker) have prior writing experience. Then again, he entered a contest and won, the first of its kind.
or Ed Greenwood when he first came up with the Forgotten Realms?
During the peak days of D&D (1980's), Ed Greenwood was a contributing writer of Dragon magazine. In fact, most of his submitted articles were based on FR. That's how TSR caught wind of his campaign setting and bought it from him.
... or Gygax when he came up with Greyhawk? To say you need something written in order to write is kind of um...not exactly true if you ask me.
Gygax is the original co-creator of D&D, and Greyhawk is one of the first settings for use with the new game's ruleset that began in 1974 (the other being Blackmoor creator by Dave Arneson, the other original co-creator).
Originally posted by Ranger REG
It can be argued that Keith Baker (no relation to Richard Baker) have prior writing experience. Then again, he entered a contest and won, the first of its kind.
During the peak days of D&D (1980's), Ed Greenwood was a contributing writer of Dragon magazine. In fact, most of his submitted articles were based on FR. That's how TSR caught wind of his campaign setting and bought it from him.
Gygax is the original co-creator of D&D, and Greyhawk is one of the first settings for use with the new game's ruleset that began in 1974 (the other being Blackmoor creator by Dave Arneson, the other original co-creator).
You do realize that Ed Greenwood came up with Forgotten Realms back in '69 right? and Keith Baker had one or two published works, not enough to make him known well.
Originally posted by Majoru Oakheart
WOTC employees were talking about this before, some of the FR books that mostly were background and world information sold so poorly that it wasn't worth making them. Someone made the decision to include a lot more crunch in the books.
And, since GH is the default setting, in theory, all of the prestige classes, feats, spells, etc in the Complete Warrior, and Complete Divine are all designed with GH in mind (and just generic enough to use in any other setting). So, basically EVERY book is GH crunch, and GH fluff would sell worse than FR fluff.
Majoru Oakheart
Personally, I'd like to see Underdark and other region-based books for Greyhawk, not just FR.
I am a fan and wish to hold a high regard for my favorite setting. I dislike quite a few things Gygax did with the world of Greyhawk. This doesn't mean that he's a horrible writer. All this means is he made things that would not occur in my game, and so it didn't occur in my game. Their are plenty of writers that I have had issue's with their final product but it doesn't mean that all of them gave me nothing to work with or something that is completely useless.
CP if you want to write something go ahead. Just take a few words of advice from me. Ignore the abusive critizism, and pay attention to the constructive critizism. Many people can give you there take on something maybe they don't like something because it makes turns they wouldn't take or disagreed with. When people say it's the worst written thing ever or that it sucks, without giving any constructive reason why. Then I ask myself how well do they read of how articulate is this person that the best they could come up with is this sucks.
Yes, it's normally true that the more you write the more your writing evolves. Yet George Lucas needs to end his writing career and retire a happy man. Because all the new Star Wars films make me wonder why I ever even took a peak at a Star wars film.
So CP go write something you enjoy submit it and get it published. Whether it be a book or just an adventure in Dungeon magazine. This way I can say wow this 16 year old kid that nobody knows can write pretty well I wonder if his name come into play then.
1. If Greyhawk fans are "psychotic nazis" then the rest of D&D players are some sort of facist demons. Seriously I posted a question about Vecna this morning and what did I get? An instant helpful answer. Go on the Planescape forums and post something like "I think the Lady of Pain's gown hangs half an inch off the ground." and they will berate you until you are crying like a schoolgirl. Not only will they berate you but they will do it in their own language!
2. I was in a discussion about what a new GH product would look like if WOTC were to pony up the dough and produce it. Most agreed that it would look something like the FRCS. I think that this would be a swell idea if it remains in the flavor of Greyhawk. The thing that I liked the most about the FRCS was the instantly acessible easily readable info about dungeon environs. You could open it up and it would say "There is dungeon xxx here it is thought to be populated by...." Just enough info to get you started and not so much to stifle your creativity.
3. I read through most of this post and saw that a lot of GH fans would be willing to contrubute to a new GH product. Here's a crazy idea. You already have a good baseline in Canonfire. Why not get a half dozen sages together and pool your resources and put out an online guide much like the Planescape fans are doing at Planewalker.com? Just an idea I would like to help as much as possible, but I have only been playing in GH for a few months myself.
At any rate I would just like to extend a thanks to everyone who has lent me a hand in the past few weeks I look forward to years of adventure on Oerth!