Answering to a request from my player's for a change of pace, i started a new campaing in Davania, in the city states area.
Well, my problem is that the information almost non existant in the area.
My problem is regarding the non-human clans ( elves, dwarves, gnomes and halfling). I do not want to make up something that's already done... so does anyone as information for the clans that could exist in the area?
Thanks
http://www.mystara.addr.com/index.html
The information there is identical to the one in the official Mystara one, so...
My idea is that after the great rain of fire elves (and probably other races) migrated north but some of them remained along the way, some of them in the city states area. All i wuold like to know is if there is any info on this, but probably there isn't...
Originally posted by Goldrak
My idea is that after the great rain of fire elves (and probably other races) migrated north but some of them remained along the way, some of them in the city states area. All i wuold like to know is if there is any info on this, but probably there isn't...
Alot of people seem to be of the opinion that all the elves left Davania for Brun. Except for the savage elves of Vulcania (from VotPA). This doesn't really make much sense to me. The elves started out on southern Davania (Evergrun) and most migrated north, but there is no reason why the two major migrations (Meditor/Verdier and Ilsundal) couldnt have branched off or left minor clans behind. For all we know, Davania could be filled with various elven clans.
IMC, the Core Races are considered major races of Mystara and that for a reason; They are found pretty much all over in some form or other.
But to flesh them out, it looks like you're going to have to do most of the work on your own...
Make sure to post it here when youre done though! ;)
Havard
Are their any maps for the continent of Davania that are available for download?
Nothing official available for download that I know of (the ESDs of PWA1012 might have the northern portion of Davania available with it- there was a map insert with it included in the book).
Fan created maps, however, are available:
Geoff Gander's maps:
Adakkian Sound
Aryptian Savannah
Aryptian Desert
Izondian Deep
The Lost Valley
Bay of Pelatan
Vulcania
Cestia and Oceania
Charles and Carl Diamond's maps:
High Shire
Sturm1022's maps:
Eseri
Mogluur
(I'm not entirely clear where these two regions are located, but they seem to be in the region NE of the Izondan wall, in that bay region).
Thibault Sarlat's maps (and most of the above maps linked):
Davania maps
Alot of people seem to be of the opinion that all the elves left Davania for Brun. Except for the savage elves of Vulcania (from VotPA).
The N'djatwa? They're not elves, but half-ogres/half-elves.
The idea is that the elves the elves that remained in southern Davania died out due to the changing climate, GRoF effects, etc.
Of course minor elven clans could have split off -- as the Hatwa did. Few survived, of course, as the Hatwa case shows.
Clans that splitted from the migrations in Northern Davania might have survived -- much like the elves of the Savage Coast.
That said, whether or not there are elven clans in Davania, it depends on whether the DM thinks they're appropriate to the setting.
Answering to a request from my player's for a change of pace, i started a new campaing in Davania, in the city states area.
Well, my problem is that the information almost non existant in the area.
My problem is regarding the non-human clans ( elves, dwarves, gnomes and halfling). I do not want to make up something that's already done... so does anyone as information for the clans that could exist in the area?
The City-States area is not covered much.
Thibault did some work on dwarves in the area:
http://pandius.com/ndavdwar.html
And there is a work on halflings in southern Davania (High Shire).
You could also recast the Emerondian as elves.
Davanian Gnomes can be found in Vulcania, but they originally came from the fringes of the Milenian empire (see the Snartan Empire in the Vaults).
Finally, the Dragon Magazine articles on Rakasta and Lupins cover the diffusion of these races in Davania.
The N'djatwa? They're not elves, but half-ogres/half-elves.
The idea is that the elves the elves that remained in southern Davania died out due to the changing climate, GRoF effects, etc.
The N'djatwa were located on Zyxl werent they?
In any case, I was referring to an episode of the VotPA featuring barbaric elves, some of them mounted on giant sloths living near the southern polar regions. This is IIRC the episode right before the Princess Ark makes its journey into the Hollow World...
Håvard
"Most elves in Thyatis come from the Vyalia forests. Across the
Empire, you will find a few elves from the Isle of Dawn (descendants
of both Thyatian and Alphatian elves), from the Pearl Islands
(immigrants from Thyatis and Minrothad waters), [u]and from the
Hinterlands (from southern elf-clans)[/u]."
So, THERE ARE elves from the southern clans in the Hinterlands. Who are these? Perhaps they're descendants of the Belcadiz, of the Hatwa, or of some other elven clan who stayed here after most elves left for Brun?
Moreover, to clarify:
The N'DJATWA are half-ogres/half-elves that dwell on the eastern coast on Davania, in the Green Bay region. Their description is featured in Dragon Magazine #158 (so they have nothing to do with unknown Zyxl, Havard ;) ).
Some BARBARIC ELVES are instead featured in Dragon Magazine #161; these are what remains of the Grunland elven civilization, and are located near the south pole (they're a sort of Icevale elves, only a lot more aggressive, barbaric, and primitive), as Havard said.
The N'djatwa were located on Zyxl werent they?
No, they're in Green Bay in Southern Davania (south of Varellya).
In any case, I was referring to an episode of the VotPA featuring barbaric elves, some of them mounted on giant sloths living near the southern polar regions. This is IIRC the episode right before the Princess Ark makes its journey into the Hollow World...
Oh, that other episode. That's set in Vulcania, IIRC.
Jeff Daly did some work on developing the Kwythellar elves (you can look it up on the Vaults of Pandius) - IIRC, they were elves who stayed behind, but became more "evil". They live in northwestern Davania.
Geoff
Hail Mystarians!!
Answering to a request from my player's for a change of pace, i started a new campaing in Davania, in the city states area.
Well, my problem is that the information almost non existant in the area.
My problem is regarding the non-human clans ( elves, dwarves, gnomes and halfling). I do not want to make up something that's already done... so does anyone as information for the clans that could exist in the area?
I suppose that with the term "city states" you mean the former Milenian cities in the Meghala Khimata grassplains, right? I mean, the city states with funny names like "Cyclonia", "Iloloosti", etc. showed in the Poor Wizard's Almanac II map.
They are roughly described in the "Davania" entry of PWA II and PWAIII, but, unluckily, I think that the only explicit official information about this area are limited to these two supplements (and you will have very similar entries, too).
Anyway, you can include some very small pieces of information given in other official supplements in order to build a coherent setting. Here is what i suggest:
- Humans: I think that they should be mostly Neathar (white skin, blue eyes, mostly blonde or brown hair), with a strain of Milenians (olive skin, brown or black hair, brown eyes) and a minority of members of other cultures such as Yavdlom, Traldar, Hule; The Hollow World migrations map shows that this area was the ancient home of a very large group of Neathar in 3000BC; they started to migrate southwartd after the Great Rain of Fire. Milenians conquered this land after 500BC (supposed), coming from east.
By the way, the original place of Milenian culture - i.e their capital city - should be located in the hills between the jungle and the grasslands, directly south of the Hills of Desolation, as showed in early Traldar/Milenian migrations described in PWAIII.
- Elves: the post cataclysmic migration map in the Hollow World boxed set shows an elven migration going northward along the western shore of the continent, in direction of the Thanegia Island. We know that these elves did not belong to Ilsundal's migration, but to another migration started from Grunland about 300 years after Ilsundal departure. There is a certain general consensus in assuming that Belcadiz elves belonged to this migration. As Zendrolion cleverly noticed, these elves also slightily colonized the Thyatian Hinterlands. You can populate the whole western and northern coast of this bit of Davania with sparse communities of Belcadiz-like elves.
- Halflings: Again, the HW migration maps shows that the halfling migration moved northward (and, again, directed to Thanegia Island) across the Addakian Sound. We know that this migration involved many stops along the way (see "Champions of Mystara"), so you can populate the western coast (maunly north of Addakia) with many little isolated halflings villages and towns. Their culture could be similar to the Five Shires one, but I suggest you to check the Five Shires Gazetteer in order to understand which aspects of "modern" halfling behaviour depends from events that happened in the Five Shires, in order to remove them from Davanian halflings personalities.
- Gnomes: We know that southern Davania (mountains east and west of the Green Bay) hosts many gnomes communities. You can easily guess that some of them should also be dispersed in the Addakian mountains, where their members have to fight against the humanoids inhabiting the area (see PWAs). Maybe these gnomes could belong also to the "ice gnomes" sub-race; the ice gnomes are showed in the HW migrations map, in the very southern regions of Davania, but you can assume that some of them migrated north passing through the ice peaks west of Green Bay, and so they settled in the highest mountains of the Addakian chain.
- Dwarves: There is no information about dwarves in this area of the world. Maybe a small expedition reached the Addakian Mountains during the beginning of dwarven colonization campaigns (in 400BC or so, this dwarves still fighting against humanoids along with gnomes) or maybe Thyatian colonists in the Hinterlands recently persuaded some small dwarven clan of Burohur to settle in the hills of northern Davania.
- Other intelligent races: Humanoids and lizard men are described in PWAs entries about Davania. We know also that the lizard men "civilization" of the Amalur Lowlands enslaved the more primitive throglodites living in the area.
I think that probably you'll have also a lot of centaurs in the grassplains, given the fact that ancient Milenians were really good horse-breeders (as described in HW and PWAs entry about this population). I think that also chevalls could be a good choice.
Rakastas seem to be worldwide diffused, so you can add many clans of "leopard-like" subraces running in the plains. And don't forget the nearby Emerondians: these green-skin alien humanoids could have expanded south after Milenian Empire collapse, founding colonies among the city states.
We know (see PC2 "Top Ballista") that Tabis live throughout the whole Jungle Coast. Maybe some groups of them moved also in the western part of Davania.
Finally, I suggest you to add minotaurs and gyerians (a race of shy, fast Mystaran birdlike humanoids typical of grasslands) in the grassplains. Minotaurs should be cursed enduks belonging to Minoides migration from Nimmur; they could have been enslaved/absorbed by ancient Milenians and then rebelled during the fall of the Empire, spreading in the whole region.
I think now you should have enough hints in order to describe this area in greater detail.
I hope it helps. ;)
With canon material covered, I would make a few non-canon suggestions:
Humans: Although Lo is correct that most known human settlers of the region would be of Neathar stock, especially in the regions mentioned, IMHO it feels right to have bronze and dark skinned humans on Davania. Since Davania resembles our continents of Africa and South America joined together, I would suggest that humans living there at least to some extent resemble their RW counterparts both culturally and appearance-wise. There is nothing in canon to support this however.
Dwarves: Some fans are very much in favor of limiting the dwarven populations of Mystara which I think is a great shame. They are after all one of the major races, and deserve better. In addition to expeditions made from Brun, it is not impossible that Kagyar placed dwarven colonies in other places than Rockhome when he created this race. Whether these are culturally identical to the Rockhome dwarves or if they are a different experiment is up to you.
The major races idea:
If you accept the idea of major races being found almost everywhere on Mystara, I would include elves, halflings, gnomes, Rakasta, Lupins and Tortles in this group. Elves, halflings, gnomes and Rakasta have already been mentioned. I also find it natural that Lupins would have found their way to this continent. Perhaps some Dingo-like breed with a culture not unlike the Chameleon Men of Wallara. Also, I think it likely that the Tortles have breeding grounds along the northern coast of Davania. It would be interesting to come up with new cultures for those guys too. Aranea colonies might be found on Davania too. Perhaps a Cleric-based Aranea colony to balance against the wizard-Araneas of Herath?
Håvard
"Most elves in Thyatis come from the Vyalia forests. Across the
Empire, you will find a few elves from the Isle of Dawn (descendants
of both Thyatian and Alphatian elves), from the Pearl Islands
(immigrants from Thyatis and Minrothad waters), [u]and from the
Hinterlands (from southern elf-clans)[/u]."
Very interesting quote, and one that I had never noticed before. As you note, there are several interesting possibilities that come from this.
Notably, this quote from Gaz3, p.4: "The Flaems... thrive for another three centuries. Then, elves reappear from the south... Historians believe them to be the missing elven tribes, returning to claim their lost realm."
In my thread on (Yet) Another Belcadiz Theory? I interpreted that as Belcadiz elves coming from the Savage Coast, then northwards up into Glantri, but they could very possibly be from further south- these Hinterland clans that the DotE set mentions.
What I find even more interesting is the discussion of elf clans in the Pearl Islands, immigrants from Thyatis/Minrothad. I pointed out some time ago that I thought it odd that the seagoing Water Elves seem to have no other settlements outside of Minrothad, despite being reknowned travelers, while their landbound cousins have somehow managed to settle the entirety of the planet. Perhaps these Pearl Island clans are a few of our Water Elf offshoots that have never been described before?
Some BARBARIC ELVES are instead featured in Dragon Magazine #161; these are what remains of the Grunland elven civilization, and are located near the south pole (they're a sort of Icevale elves, only a lot more aggressive, barbaric, and primitive), as Havard said.
They also seem to have no ability with magic, IIRC- they live within the Anti-Magic zone around the polar opening.
- Halflings: Again, the HW migration maps shows that the halfling migration moved northward (and, again, directed to Thanegia Island) across the Addakian Sound. We know that this migration involved many stops along the way (see "Champions of Mystara"), so you can populate the western coast (maunly north of Addakia) with many little isolated halflings villages and towns. Their culture could be similar to the Five Shires one, but I suggest you to check the Five Shires Gazetteer in order to understand which aspects of "modern" halfling behaviour depends from events that happened in the Five Shires, in order to remove them from Davanian halflings personalities.
Another idea is to use some of the stranger Clan names to get an idea of what their original language of Lalor might have been like- Zursannatch, Nixnoddle, Quaeromore, Xebel, Quizzinglas, Elintel, Lamintar, Ilingall, Vailswash, Upplemiir, Voluteye, Ogglemurk, Nogknock, etc.
Some of those sound a bit elvish (likely owing to their interactions with the Truedyl clan), but then again so does the original name for their homeland Faerdinel, so perhaps the elvish influences on Lalor go back to interactions with the Davanian elves.
I actually had the southern halfling clans as black-skinned, due to the climatological differences, with a group of traditional keepers of lore against the Outer Beings and their minions (due to historical clashes with the inheritors of the Carnifex legacy in Davania), and had some notes about such a thing once upon a time.
In retrospect, I think it would have been a better idea to make the Karimari halflings rather than pygmies- if only because they were a suitable demihuman race, it would have made for an interesting cultural variant of the halflings in Mystara (other races have cultural differences, why not them?). Plus, once you have human pygmys, suddenly there are questions arising about, for instance, dwarfism? Are people with dwarfism humans, or dwarves? Anyway, a non-issue. Bottom line is, you could easily change the karimari to halflings and use them as a halfling culture.
I've recently found this passage in DotE, Player's Guide to Thyatis:
"Most elves in Thyatis come from the Vyalia forests. Across the
Empire, you will find a few elves from the Isle of Dawn (descendants
of both Thyatian and Alphatian elves), from the Pearl Islands
(immigrants from Thyatis and Minrothad waters), [u]and from the
Hinterlands (from southern elf-clans)[/u]."
oHMYGOSH! Not again, another breed of elves!
Oki oki, don't panic :P
I believe the Pearl Islands elves (the weirdest of the lot IMO) could be either Meditor offshots OR Sheyallia offshots (prolly Sheyallia fleeing the tanagoro purges in Yavdlom) who reached the Pearl Islands and settled there.
The Southern elves from the Hinterlands could be remnants of the second expedition from Grunland (in this case either Belcadiz or sylvan elves dated BC 2300) OR Vyalia youngsters that moved southwards to create a new clan (dated around BC1000-AC700) OR a small group of Feadiel elves who lost during the trek on the Rainbow Path and popped up in the Hinterlands (dated AC600).
The Isle of Dawn elves are either a group of Shiye or/and Vyalia settlers (again) living likely in Redstone.
Do not forget also that there are MANY different breeds of Rakasta in Davania, but apparently no lupins IIRC...