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With good intentions...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sabbattack
May 14, 2004 12:43:43 I really, REALLY don't mean to start a feud here, but could someone sell me on Dragonlance? You see, I've been arguing with my DM for ages now, asking him to give me some decent + points for Krynn. So far, having read some of the novels and the basic 3E campaign setting book, I believe that it is a high-fantasy, high-romance setting, with no backbone so far.
I'd really like it if someone gave me some good thoughts on why you people like Dragonlance.

Cheers!
#2
zombiegleemax
May 15, 2004 6:19:14 sabbat, yes you are right that it is a high-fantasy and romance world. but how many of those worlds have you seen someone attempt to become a god. and in how many of those worlds have you seen a half-elf struggling with the inherent differences of the blood and the degrading way in which he is treated in both the elven lands and human, strive to become the best that he can be.

how many worlds have you seen an elf sacrifice his place in elven society to train at the hands of the greatest mage to ever have lived (who happens to be a human). and at the same time still love the lands of his birth.

what i'm trying to say is how many other worlds have the ability to make someone either love or hate a particular character.

now take FR for example, whilst elminster is a powerful mage, for me he is nothing more then just a mge. but raistlin has the driving thirst for power that makes his advancement and quest for godhood almost justified. sturm's living need is the knighthood, then that is taken from him, he is lost. until he sees a way to save his knighthood, by sacrifising himself to save them, and ultimatly the continent of ansalon and all of krynn for that matter.

for me the realm of dragonlance is the best.
#3
sweetmeats
May 15, 2004 7:51:21 For me it is because it is romantic, and has the epic (dare I say almost-Tolkienesqe) fee.

Its not about dungeon crawls and gathring as much treasure as you can.

Its about repercussions, responsibility, honour, love, duty, doing whats right regardless of personal consequences.

Krynn is a world where dragons are not target monsters for treasure-hunters, they are a force in everyday life whether for good or evil.
#4
zombiegleemax
May 15, 2004 10:37:37 Dragonlance is by far the best roleplaying DnD setting around. Forget the Realms while poplar is not a fun roleplaying relam. You have superpowerful wizards and warriors, who in my humble opinion, don't feel anything for their world. DL provides one with the true opportunity to flesh out and really play a character to it's fullest, with the right DM of course. DL is a true roleplaying setting with a rich and full history. FR and Greyhawk lack that. FR is now on a tangent about it being millions of years old with long forgotten powerful races...boring. Give me a history with colorful, confused, power hungry characters like the Kingpriest, Tanis Half-Elf, and Fistandantulus and I show you a setting with real potential. If you want hack 'n slash stick with Greyhawk and FR, but if you want to roleplay DL is the place to be.
#5
rpgpat
May 15, 2004 14:49:46
Originally posted by Thordoc
how many of those worlds have you seen someone attempt to become a god

Actually thats more common than you may think. Dont forget Karsus from FR. He was the Netherese Archmage who became a god with a single spell. (Granted it killed him and led to the downfall of Netheril, but still impressive)
#6
Matthew_L._Martin
May 15, 2004 15:29:45
Originally posted by RPGPat
Actually thats more common than you may think. Dont forget Karsus from FR. He was the Netherese Archmage who became a god with a single spell. (Granted it killed him and led to the downfall of Netheril, but still impressive)

Between Cyric, Kelemvor and Midnight in the Realms, and St. Cuthbert, Vecna, and others in Greyhawk, DL is actually unique among the three existing 'core' D&D worlds for _not_ having any ascended mortals in the pantheon, setting aside some theories about Gilean. (We'll have to wait and see how Eberron handles things.)

I would suggest that the posts on this thread are doing an excellent job . . .

. . . of giving people the impression that DL fandom is dominated by snobs who look down on other settings. :-(

Come on, folks; can we try to push the positives of DL _without_ taking cheap shots at FR, GH, etc.?

For my part, I'd argue that DL's strengths lies in its 'fairy tale' ambience and high romantic feel. These aren't strengths that I'm certain the later works have upheld, but I do think that they compose a lot of the 'Dragonlance feel' that so many talk about and are something that make it distinct from other settings.

Matthew L. Martin
#7
talinthas
May 15, 2004 15:35:04 If you are going to sell DL, do it by showcasing its strength as a romantic epic storyline as opposed to saying what it isnt. In DL, the heroes are not just heroes, they are the sole force for change in the world. if they fall, the world does. If you want to play in a dragonlance campaign, its because you value responsibility and a strong sense of storyline over adventuring for the heck of it.

DL isn't really good for casual gaming. the setting is made to force super epic conflict. Epic meaning far reaching story with major consequences, and not >20 level play.
#8
zombiegleemax
May 16, 2004 11:30:28 In my mind, Dragonlance is a great setting because of its novels, I can't really say anything about other settings novels because DL novels are the only ones I've ever read.

I remember when I was first getting into DnD about 1 year ago. And I saw this book called "Dragons of Autumn Twilight" I told my cousin about it, who basically got me into DnD gaming, and he told me to read it. Before that I was a little skeptic on reading it, because I didn't like reading that much then. So I did, and it drug me into the story. That is why, to me, Dragonlance is such a great setting. It has depth and stories, which most settings do but once again I haven't read any other ones.
#9
lily_knight
May 17, 2004 0:20:31 For me it is the blurred distinction between good and evil. In some campaigns (look it is bold this time! no need to flame!), the difference between good and evil is really based upon what type of monster you butcher whilst raiding their homes. In DL you have the potential for a 'good' elf mercilessly hunting down an 'evil' yet honourable and respectful dark knight (the one that doesn't torture, and takes his helm off for ladies). Understand how easily the lines can be blurred. Alignment can now be unwittingly violated by a player as well as a character.

I also love that ideas that too much good is evil, that too much evil becomes nothing, whilst all the while spinning around the concept that too much neutrality (freedom of choice) leads to destructive chaos.

While the Lord of the Rings is so much more then a book, so to DL is so much more then a campaign world.
#10
quentingeorge
May 17, 2004 5:11:44 Actually, Krynn is unusual in that it has NO ascended mortals in its pantheon.

Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms both have ascended mortals, as does Ravenloft (Ezra - if she exists at all, that is).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sabbattack May 14, 2004 12:43:43	I really, REALLY don't mean to start a feud here, but could someone sell me on Dragonlance? You see, I've been arguing with my DM for ages now, asking him to give me some decent + points for Krynn. So far, having read some of the novels and the basic 3E campaign setting book, I believe that it is a high-fantasy, high-romance setting, with no backbone so far. I'd really like it if someone gave me some good thoughts on why you people like Dragonlance. Cheers!
#2 zombiegleemax May 15, 2004 6:19:14	sabbat, yes you are right that it is a high-fantasy and romance world. but how many of those worlds have you seen someone attempt to become a god. and in how many of those worlds have you seen a half-elf struggling with the inherent differences of the blood and the degrading way in which he is treated in both the elven lands and human, strive to become the best that he can be. how many worlds have you seen an elf sacrifice his place in elven society to train at the hands of the greatest mage to ever have lived (who happens to be a human). and at the same time still love the lands of his birth. what i'm trying to say is how many other worlds have the ability to make someone either love or hate a particular character. now take FR for example, whilst elminster is a powerful mage, for me he is nothing more then just a mge. but raistlin has the driving thirst for power that makes his advancement and quest for godhood almost justified. sturm's living need is the knighthood, then that is taken from him, he is lost. until he sees a way to save his knighthood, by sacrifising himself to save them, and ultimatly the continent of ansalon and all of krynn for that matter. for me the realm of dragonlance is the best.
#3 sweetmeats May 15, 2004 7:51:21	For me it is because it is romantic, and has the epic (dare I say almost-Tolkienesqe) fee. Its not about dungeon crawls and gathring as much treasure as you can. Its about repercussions, responsibility, honour, love, duty, doing whats right regardless of personal consequences. Krynn is a world where dragons are not target monsters for treasure-hunters, they are a force in everyday life whether for good or evil.
#4 zombiegleemax May 15, 2004 10:37:37	Dragonlance is by far the best roleplaying DnD setting around. Forget the Realms while poplar is not a fun roleplaying relam. You have superpowerful wizards and warriors, who in my humble opinion, don't feel anything for their world. DL provides one with the true opportunity to flesh out and really play a character to it's fullest, with the right DM of course. DL is a true roleplaying setting with a rich and full history. FR and Greyhawk lack that. FR is now on a tangent about it being millions of years old with long forgotten powerful races...boring. Give me a history with colorful, confused, power hungry characters like the Kingpriest, Tanis Half-Elf, and Fistandantulus and I show you a setting with real potential. If you want hack 'n slash stick with Greyhawk and FR, but if you want to roleplay DL is the place to be.
#5 rpgpat May 15, 2004 14:49:46	Originally posted by Thordoc how many of those worlds have you seen someone attempt to become a god Actually thats more common than you may think. Dont forget Karsus from FR. He was the Netherese Archmage who became a god with a single spell. (Granted it killed him and led to the downfall of Netheril, but still impressive)
#6 Matthew_L._Martin May 15, 2004 15:29:45	Originally posted by RPGPat Actually thats more common than you may think. Dont forget Karsus from FR. He was the Netherese Archmage who became a god with a single spell. (Granted it killed him and led to the downfall of Netheril, but still impressive) Between Cyric, Kelemvor and Midnight in the Realms, and St. Cuthbert, Vecna, and others in Greyhawk, DL is actually unique among the three existing 'core' D&D worlds for _not_ having any ascended mortals in the pantheon, setting aside some theories about Gilean. (We'll have to wait and see how Eberron handles things.) I would suggest that the posts on this thread are doing an excellent job . . . . . . of giving people the impression that DL fandom is dominated by snobs who look down on other settings. :-( Come on, folks; can we try to push the positives of DL _without_ taking cheap shots at FR, GH, etc.? For my part, I'd argue that DL's strengths lies in its 'fairy tale' ambience and high romantic feel. These aren't strengths that I'm certain the later works have upheld, but I do think that they compose a lot of the 'Dragonlance feel' that so many talk about and are something that make it distinct from other settings. Matthew L. Martin
#7 talinthas May 15, 2004 15:35:04	If you are going to sell DL, do it by showcasing its strength as a romantic epic storyline as opposed to saying what it isnt. In DL, the heroes are not just heroes, they are the sole force for change in the world. if they fall, the world does. If you want to play in a dragonlance campaign, its because you value responsibility and a strong sense of storyline over adventuring for the heck of it. DL isn't really good for casual gaming. the setting is made to force super epic conflict. Epic meaning far reaching story with major consequences, and not >20 level play.
#8 zombiegleemax May 16, 2004 11:30:28	In my mind, Dragonlance is a great setting because of its novels, I can't really say anything about other settings novels because DL novels are the only ones I've ever read. I remember when I was first getting into DnD about 1 year ago. And I saw this book called "Dragons of Autumn Twilight" I told my cousin about it, who basically got me into DnD gaming, and he told me to read it. Before that I was a little skeptic on reading it, because I didn't like reading that much then. So I did, and it drug me into the story. That is why, to me, Dragonlance is such a great setting. It has depth and stories, which most settings do but once again I haven't read any other ones.
#9 lily_knight May 17, 2004 0:20:31	For me it is the blurred distinction between good and evil. In some campaigns (look it is bold this time! no need to flame!), the difference between good and evil is really based upon what type of monster you butcher whilst raiding their homes. In DL you have the potential for a 'good' elf mercilessly hunting down an 'evil' yet honourable and respectful dark knight (the one that doesn't torture, and takes his helm off for ladies). Understand how easily the lines can be blurred. Alignment can now be unwittingly violated by a player as well as a character. I also love that ideas that too much good is evil, that too much evil becomes nothing, whilst all the while spinning around the concept that too much neutrality (freedom of choice) leads to destructive chaos. While the Lord of the Rings is so much more then a book, so to DL is so much more then a campaign world.
#10 quentingeorge May 17, 2004 5:11:44	Actually, Krynn is unusual in that it has NO ascended mortals in its pantheon. Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms both have ascended mortals, as does Ravenloft (Ezra - if she exists at all, that is).