Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax May 15, 2004 15:27:32	My new campaign, the players will be gladiators in either Draj or Nibenay. Draj would be interesting because of the bloodthirsty culture and it is a city that beleives its king is a god(though they fear him). Nibenay is a choice because I own the ivory triangle box. My main problem is this: whether to use AD&D or D&D3e. I have heard speak of a 3.5, but i'm not wasting 100 dollars on new books when I own the complete set of 2nd and 3rd. If I use 2nd edition, the rules are all layed out for me. I won't need to do any work. However, all of the other players are more familiar with 3rd edition. I don't have anything against 3rd, my best Dsun campaign ever was a 3rd edition one, but I have several problems with it. Namely, how much more complicated it is than AD&D. The fact that all monsters have skills and feats is a pain in the behind to keep track of, and the game uses several times more modifiers than AD&D. I was wondering if you guys think it is worth the effort? I know that Athas.org has the 3rd edition stuff up, which it didn't last time I made a campaign, but it claims that it is D&D3.5. Is 3.5 different from 3rd edition, and if so, would it prevent me from using the information on Athas.org?
#2 skitzboy_dup May 15, 2004 16:43:36	3.5 isn't too terribly different from 3E. Main differences is in some tweaking of the spell lists and a few class tweaks, primarily to druids and rangers. Mechanically, it all works the same. I vastly prefer 3/3.5 mechanics over 2E though. I agree that at times it is more complicated than 2E, but I love the fact that creatures now have the same stats as and are treated rules-wise the same as everthing else. To me, it is overall simpler than 2E because everything uses the same mechanics, be it PC, NPC, or creature. I also hated the 2E saving throw system compared to the 3E saving throws. In the end, it's the stories and adventures that matter, and not the mechanics behind it. That's up to you and your players. You could do paper/rock/scissors Dark Sun, and as long as you and your players are having fun, that's all that matters. That being said, I'd recommend taking a look at the Athas.org stuff if your players are dead-set on 3E vs 2E. I don't agree with everthing they've done mechanics-wise, but they've put a lot of love and time into their product, and it shows. I think they've nailed the feel of the original DS, and that's what matters to me more than the rules.
#3 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 15, 2004 19:00:20	I prefer, and solely play 3.5e. I detested (was revolted by?) the 2e system, in that it was at such high levels of complexity, you almost needed a degree to understand it all. and from a DM's point of view, it really, truely sucked. I didn't run any AD&D campaigns myself, and only rarely played in them, prefering *any* system over it (heck, I'd run 2e Rolemaster more than 2e AD&D, adn 2e Rolemaster was colliqualized as "Chartmaster", as you needed to look up in a chart to look up in a chart to look up in a chart to go to another book full of charts to look up in a chart to look up in a chart, to write down what it said and look in yet another chart and add to it, then present the results to the players. for virtually every action in combat. Meanwhile, the players have since ordered & eaten dinner while you calculate 1 round of combat. I liked that more than AD&D 2e. However, when 3e came out, my philosophy changed, and am now exclusively playing d20 system games. It's nice, simple, and effective. It's designed for combat systems, which makes it handy for those situations, and I can ad-lib the roleplaying parts with my players. when 3.5e came out, I had thought the changes wouldn't be much, but they were more than enough for me to justify paying another 100 dollars for a new set of books (even though I had downloaded the SRD already and was primarily using it for my games - which works well, actually, to use the SRD from wizards and the 3e rulebooks for the filler-text). I switched to 3.5e, and didn't look back. It's cleaner, and in my opinion, superior to 3e in many ways. Plus, they integrated some of the materials from the other supplements, and improved upon them as well. Of course, none of the 3.5e Core Rulebooks can hold a candle to the vast changes & improvements that were presented in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. That is my new psionics bible, and in my opinion, a [iu]must buy[/u] for any Dark Sun DM. It has a minor flaw in that the designers apparently were smoking crack when they did the Half-Giants (probably the same stuff that the people at Paizo got ahold of for their lousy Dark Sun conversion in their magazines), and the Soulblade needs some tweaking to be useable in Dark Sun, but all in all, the book is gold. I personally run Star Wars, D&D (Dark Sun & Dragonlance), d20 Modern, Farscape, and Stargate games. I have some material for Ravenloft as well, but haven't really gotten back into that like I used to be. And I have my own campaign setting, which I call "The Four Worlds", which is one campaign setting that has four distinct and different worlds people could play on. 3 are fantasy, 1 is science fiction. And they have different magic systems, and various other things that make them unique, but it is possible to mix between them with characters from different worlds. Which means that there may be a situation where the android soldier could be in a world devoid of technology, biut filled with magic and psionics instead. Or the dragon (I have a unique definition and method of dealing with Dragons on one of my worlds, which is the only world with Dragons, and they are playable at first) could end up learning how to fly a space fighter in the futuristic setting - but these are very, very rare cases. One of the worlds is similar in many ways to Dark Sun, on the surface, in that it is a blasted, dry, dead wasteland - and actually is worse off than Athas - most everyone on that world lives in these massive caverns (cracks) or under the shattered surface of this world. Another is full of life, a veritable jungle with massive oceans, and where magic & nature have blended into something truely bizarre. Yet a third is a world where it is between these other two worlds, caught there, with one always to the north and one to the south. It is almost always in a perpetual state of twilight, and has a more "normal" fantasy setting for people to play in (if there is such a thing). The science fiction world is a massive space station, that is sort of like a globe where everything is built inside of it, along the inner surface of it, with huge spires, and is large enough that fighter craft could fly within it easily, filled with alien races (called "organics") and mechanical races, like andriods (called "synthetics"). I've been slowly converting this over to d20, and am hoping on presenting the setting on my own website when I get it back up and running.
#4 nytcrawlr May 16, 2004 11:48:37	Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm It has a minor flaw in that the designers apparently were smoking crack when they did the Half-Giants (probably the same stuff that the people at Paizo got ahold of for their lousy Dark Sun conversion in their magazines), Yeah, they need to share next time if that stuff is so good, sheesh. :D SRD can be located at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35 and works well for those that don't want to spend more money on getting the 3.5 books.
#5 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 16, 2004 14:40:29	The SRD also includes the full material from the Epic Level Handbook (not just the limited epic material from the 3.5e DMG), Deities & Demigods, and it also includes all of the gamesystem rules from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. They skeep slipping in information to it while I'm not looking. Just AWESOME (especially if I want to use that material in my own campaign setting and release it online).
#6 zombiegleemax May 16, 2004 17:44:22	For almost the exact same reasons (applied in reverse) that xlorepdarkhelm listed, I like 2nd edition much better than 3.0 or 3.5. I won't bother with the "why and what not" because you can just read his rather detailed post in reverse order and I'd be saying just about the same things. :D And regarding the Expanded Psionics Hanbook specifically, I have to agree that the quality of the book is top notch. But I don't like the 3.0 or 3.5 psionic rules. They take away the flavor of psionicists (psions) and make them yet another wizard class. With mass damage spells and the like they just become 2nd edition wizards with spell points. I liked the 2nd edition system where cleric magic, wizard magic, and psionicist powers were all very different and had little to do with each other. But the EPH for 3.5 in and of itself is very well done and quite complete. However, as was already pointed out, the biggest consideration is which system you and your players enjoy most and which one allows you to bring the world of Athas to life. Whichever system allows your group to have the most fun and the least problems, that would be my vote.
#7 ashramry May 17, 2004 5:56:20	Originally posted by vader42xx For almost the exact same reasons (applied in reverse) that xlorepdarkhelm listed, I like 2nd edition much better than 3.0 or 3.5. I won't bother with the "why and what not" because you can just read his rather detailed post in reverse order and I'd be saying just about the same things. :D ) ditto here. In many ways wizards did the right thing when they dropped the "a" from the "d&d" when they went solely 3e. overall i'd say run what you want, if you are a good enough DM your players will follow even if they have to learn a new system. if you want to run written adventures for 2nd ed i suggest Freedom which can be downloaded for very little cost online. if 3e i suggest the stuff from athas.org over the new dragon and dungeon mag stuff. whatever you end up doing good luck, and we are always here if you need help or advice. ashy