One most strange question, perhaps - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

One most strange question, perhaps

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 13:25:02 Greetings to everyone!
I have recently downloaded that great set “Hellbound: Blood War” and looked through the book “The Bargain” included in it. Suddenly a strange question arose in my mind: are the fiends able to feel love? On the one side, the aasimon told Zaxarus, that he (I mean the cambion) was trying to impress the creature without the barest conception of love (a marilith). On the other, Alamanda’s last words were that she loved Zaxarus. Were those words of her just a result of aasimon’s power (which was enough to make a traitor seem a hero) or was he wrong about the feelings of fiends? Or do I just take that comic book too serious?:-))))
To say more general: are the fiends capable of feelings usually considered “high”? Can a baatezu, for example, respect (in some way) his superior or does he feel only envy and fear? Can a fiend be thankful towards the creature that saved his life (regarding tanar’ri…and yugoloth, perhaps, the answer is most likely to be negative, but what’s in the case of a baatezu)? If they are, that seems to be a kind of source for appearing of risen fiends…

P.S I’m not quite fluent in English (not to mention the cant:-)) ). So please forgive some possible mistakes in the post and my…how to say…cluelessness:-)
#2
Shemeska_the_Marauder
May 17, 2004 15:40:25 Some say that fiends cannot feel love, or simply that their idea of love cannot be the same as a mortal or a celestial. Love may be meaningless, or so corrupted as to be so dissimilar that we wouldn't recognize it.

Personally I think that they can, though it might be hellaciously flawed and disfunctional. For my own take on it, here's a link to a story I wrote some time ago regarding a love affair between two Arcanaloths. Judge for yourself if one, the other, or both 'loved' the other despite what happens.

The Heart of Perdition
#3
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 16:39:14 I'd say yes, as PS has reformed fiends in it that are truly good. If a fiend MUST be evil, then its just a programmed creature as much as a modron is. Same with angels. Then the setting is really, when you think about it, based on fighting autamatons.
#4
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 17:32:52 In the adventure anthology "Well of Worlds", there is an adventure called "Love Letter" where the PCs are hired by a Baatezu (a cornugon to be precise) who wants them to bring a letter to his beloved, a Tanar´ri (a succubus). He can´t do it on his own, because "their families are fighting each other since years" and would do anything possible to break up their relationship if they knew about it.
The background info says that Kasrarlin, the cornugon, fell in love with the succubus (whose name I can´t remember right now) when he was in the Abyss conducting a raid against the Tanar´ri and that the succubus fell in love at first sight with him, too.
So, considering this most extraordinary love story, I would say that love among fiends is not as rare as one might think.
#5
gilliard_derosan
May 17, 2004 22:44:01 When it comes to Fiends, I believe that Love is possible, but in most cases, emotions would be beneath them.

In most cases, Fiends lower down on the chain just fear their superiors, but in a few cases, I could see some showing respect.

Personally, I think it comes down to a case by case basis.

Just as there are Human beings out there in the world who seem incapable of love and compassion. Ruthless dictators, military conquerors, Army Commanders (Who must weigh the lives of his soldiers on the importance of the objective), Then in the same token I can see Mariliths, Balors, Succubus' and the like capable of love and compassion and respect. In most cases though, such emotions and feelings would just not be feasable for the situation. Does a Balor weigh the lives of his lower Tanar'ri based on the importance of the objective? Hell no, there are so many of the lesser demons, he can afford to send in as many as necessary, regardless if they are all slaughtered. Now, perhaps there are a few Demons of extraordinary capability, who the Balor may be careful how he utilizes that resource, but it's compassion and more of How best to take care of Number 1.

The bottom line. Yes, I would think Fiends are capable of Love. They just probably love things and concepts that our mortal minds could not understand.
#6
zombiegleemax
May 17, 2004 23:51:02 "Ahhh, yes, my kind's so called sires must be capable of SOME form of love alright. Planetouched such as myself are veritable evidence of it.

Of course, what kind of love it is is what matters. Many tieflings are not born out of say...a true romance. But of a "love" for domination. A "love" for torturing souls. A "love" for defiling purity with their own dark seed. A "love" for knowledge that it is they who will create the next line of souls tainted and thus doomed to serve for them when the mortal child dies.

If fiends are capable of love that leads to a romance that is even BARELY tolerable by righteous human standards, it must be because a mortal spark still resides in the dark immortals.

After all, some lifetimes ago, even Orcus could have been a wicked farmer on the Prime."

-Fringe Frey Fartale, Tiefling Planewalker-
#7
zombiegleemax
May 19, 2004 16:43:38 Do not forget, Zaxarus is a Cambion, who are outcasts of Tanar'ri because they are basically born of human mothers. So that in itself may render them capable of such half-breed emotions.
#8
zombiegleemax
May 19, 2004 16:44:50 Well I shouldn't say "outcasts" but they are basically treated as complete inferiors in most cases.
#9
zombiegleemax
May 19, 2004 19:10:00 (Blue haired tiefling suddenly seems very..... ticked.) "Did you say.... half....breed...emotins? As if love is only capable by "inferiors"? Listen here berk, but I don't take kindly to that kinda screed. If I can hack a vrock to bits singlehandedly, I'll have no qualms on committing similar actions with you spine fairy!"

-Fringe Fartale, Tiefling planewalker-

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 13:25:02	Greetings to everyone! I have recently downloaded that great set “Hellbound: Blood War” and looked through the book “The Bargain” included in it. Suddenly a strange question arose in my mind: are the fiends able to feel love? On the one side, the aasimon told Zaxarus, that he (I mean the cambion) was trying to impress the creature without the barest conception of love (a marilith). On the other, Alamanda’s last words were that she loved Zaxarus. Were those words of her just a result of aasimon’s power (which was enough to make a traitor seem a hero) or was he wrong about the feelings of fiends? Or do I just take that comic book too serious?:-)))) To say more general: are the fiends capable of feelings usually considered “high”? Can a baatezu, for example, respect (in some way) his superior or does he feel only envy and fear? Can a fiend be thankful towards the creature that saved his life (regarding tanar’ri…and yugoloth, perhaps, the answer is most likely to be negative, but what’s in the case of a baatezu)? If they are, that seems to be a kind of source for appearing of risen fiends… P.S I’m not quite fluent in English (not to mention the cant:-)) ). So please forgive some possible mistakes in the post and my…how to say…cluelessness:-)
#2 Shemeska_the_Marauder May 17, 2004 15:40:25	Some say that fiends cannot feel love, or simply that their idea of love cannot be the same as a mortal or a celestial. Love may be meaningless, or so corrupted as to be so dissimilar that we wouldn't recognize it. Personally I think that they can, though it might be hellaciously flawed and disfunctional. For my own take on it, here's a link to a story I wrote some time ago regarding a love affair between two Arcanaloths. Judge for yourself if one, the other, or both 'loved' the other despite what happens. The Heart of Perdition
#3 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 16:39:14	I'd say yes, as PS has reformed fiends in it that are truly good. If a fiend MUST be evil, then its just a programmed creature as much as a modron is. Same with angels. Then the setting is really, when you think about it, based on fighting autamatons.
#4 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 17:32:52	In the adventure anthology "Well of Worlds", there is an adventure called "Love Letter" where the PCs are hired by a Baatezu (a cornugon to be precise) who wants them to bring a letter to his beloved, a Tanar´ri (a succubus). He can´t do it on his own, because "their families are fighting each other since years" and would do anything possible to break up their relationship if they knew about it. The background info says that Kasrarlin, the cornugon, fell in love with the succubus (whose name I can´t remember right now) when he was in the Abyss conducting a raid against the Tanar´ri and that the succubus fell in love at first sight with him, too. So, considering this most extraordinary love story, I would say that love among fiends is not as rare as one might think.
#5 gilliard_derosan May 17, 2004 22:44:01	When it comes to Fiends, I believe that Love is possible, but in most cases, emotions would be beneath them. In most cases, Fiends lower down on the chain just fear their superiors, but in a few cases, I could see some showing respect. Personally, I think it comes down to a case by case basis. Just as there are Human beings out there in the world who seem incapable of love and compassion. Ruthless dictators, military conquerors, Army Commanders (Who must weigh the lives of his soldiers on the importance of the objective), Then in the same token I can see Mariliths, Balors, Succubus' and the like capable of love and compassion and respect. In most cases though, such emotions and feelings would just not be feasable for the situation. Does a Balor weigh the lives of his lower Tanar'ri based on the importance of the objective? Hell no, there are so many of the lesser demons, he can afford to send in as many as necessary, regardless if they are all slaughtered. Now, perhaps there are a few Demons of extraordinary capability, who the Balor may be careful how he utilizes that resource, but it's compassion and more of How best to take care of Number 1. The bottom line. Yes, I would think Fiends are capable of Love. They just probably love things and concepts that our mortal minds could not understand.
#6 zombiegleemax May 17, 2004 23:51:02	"Ahhh, yes, my kind's so called sires must be capable of SOME form of love alright. Planetouched such as myself are veritable evidence of it. Of course, what kind of love it is is what matters. Many tieflings are not born out of say...a true romance. But of a "love" for domination. A "love" for torturing souls. A "love" for defiling purity with their own dark seed. A "love" for knowledge that it is they who will create the next line of souls tainted and thus doomed to serve for them when the mortal child dies. If fiends are capable of love that leads to a romance that is even BARELY tolerable by righteous human standards, it must be because a mortal spark still resides in the dark immortals. After all, some lifetimes ago, even Orcus could have been a wicked farmer on the Prime." -Fringe Frey Fartale, Tiefling Planewalker-
#7 zombiegleemax May 19, 2004 16:43:38	Do not forget, Zaxarus is a Cambion, who are outcasts of Tanar'ri because they are basically born of human mothers. So that in itself may render them capable of such half-breed emotions.
#8 zombiegleemax May 19, 2004 16:44:50	Well I shouldn't say "outcasts" but they are basically treated as complete inferiors in most cases.
#9 zombiegleemax May 19, 2004 19:10:00	(Blue haired tiefling suddenly seems very..... ticked.) "Did you say.... half....breed...emotins? As if love is only capable by "inferiors"? Listen here berk, but I don't take kindly to that kinda screed. If I can hack a vrock to bits singlehandedly, I'll have no qualms on committing similar actions with you spine fairy!" -Fringe Fartale, Tiefling planewalker-