If they can, which ones? If not, why not? I know that it has to do with Hamanu being the last champion or something along those line, but I don't recall exactly.
Thanks a bunch!
-Sysane, The Terror of Urik
The pentad has Sacha tell Rikus that Hamanu is immune to the Scourge, because Hamanu was knigted to defeat Myron of Yoram (sic, should be Yorum). As such, he would probably have been immune to the Scorcher (Myron's weapon), since that's the weapon he would have confronted, and not the Scourge.
In Psionic Artifacts of Athas, it states that the scorcher was lost by Hamanu, which seems rather unlikely. However, the timeline states that when Dregoth was slain by Hamanu with the help of the Scorcher, he cast the weapon away into the sea of silt. I'd think there is a way to reconcile both versions.
When Hamanu used the scorcher to slay Dregoth, the weapon was percieved as a threat to the champions, that could possibly be turned against them. Now, as most of the sorcerer-kings were present, they probably didn't want to have Hamanu be the sole posessor of such a weapon, and be such a threat. Hamanu therefore had to get rid of the weapon to avoid facing the gathered might of the SKs. Therefore, he lost the scorcher, and one of the major advantages he had over the other SKs.
There is good reason to interpret the material on those as being forged together, and earlier than
Originally posted by erasmus1634
Could any of those weapons affect Hamanu? I know that the Scourge couldn't but I can't recall if the other two (Silencer and Scorcher) could.
If they can, which ones? If not, why not? I know that it has to do with Hamanu being the last champion or something along those line, but I don't recall exactly.
Thanks a bunch!
I've personally ruled that any dragon-bane weapons heal Hamanu 2d6, rather than damage him an extra 2d6 per hit, which can rlatively nullify the effect of such weapons. If I recall,2 of the 3 swords were ineffective against Hamanu - the Silencer, and Borys' Scourge. I believe it's the Scorcher that actually can harm him, which may be a reason he got rid of that weapon after killing Dregoth with it. regardless, it does make Hamanu a far more difficult adversary to kill than others.
I also have him getting bonuses against any rebirth race not already covered by other Champions, as well as bonuses against other Champions, which I decided as I believe, as is explained in Rise & Fall of a Dragon King and hinted at in the various Prism Pentad books, he's the final champion, the Champion to finish Rajaat's gruesome work and exterminate the rest of the races, including Humans and the other Champions. This also, is indirectly, supported through the timeline, by the fact that every time a Champion was killed, except fot Kalak, Hamanu either did it himself (Sielba & Dregoth), or was there to assist (as in the case of Kalid-Ma). the two heads, Sacha & Wyan, could possibly have survived simply because the Champions aren't supposed to be able to kill each other (could be a design "flaw" (or intentional feature) that Rajaat put in them to keep them from slitting each others' throats. and Hamanu could have been given the ability to do what the others couldn't (Well, Borys might have been capable since he fully-developed as a Dragon, and thus really broke from Rajaat's original intent).
Then again, I also borrowed the Rise & Fall idea of automatic progression through the metamorphosis for Hamanu only. I have him automatically advancing 1 level of dragon for every 5 levels of another class, which can be accelerated through the use of magic - the more powerful the effect and/or more use of dragon magic he does, the sooner he must take a level of Dragon. Basically - I have him being a really special case - unlike the other Champions, his metamorphosis was initiated by Rajaat, and is a bit different than the others.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
The Scorcher was Hammanu's old sword and is the only one, out of the three that Rajaat made, that can effect him.
The Pentad contradicts this. Well, no, thats not really true. Sacha, quoted in the pentad, tells Rikus that Hamanu is unnafected by the Scourge because Rajaat wanted him to be able to defeat Myron.
Now, since Myron weilded the Scorcher, and not the Scourge, that statement only makes sense if Hamanu is immune to the Scorcher as well.
The Silencer is not mentionned, but it stands to reason he would be immune as well.
I'm curious: What makes you think Hamanu is not immune to the Scorcher?
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
The Pentad contradicts this. Well, no, thats not really true. Sacha, quoted in the pentad, tells Rikus that Hamanu is unnafected by the Scourge because Rajaat wanted him to be able to defeat Myron.
Now, since Myron weilded the Scorcher, and not the Scourge, that statement only makes sense if Hamanu is immune to the Scorcher as well.
The Silencer is not mentionned, but it stands to reason he would be immune as well.
I'm curious: What makes you think Hamanu is not immune to the Scorcher?
Originally from Psionic Artifacts of Athas, page 26:
...
The Scorcher remained in Hamanu's possession for years, and was the blade used by the sorcerer-king of Urik to deal the death-blow to Dregoth, the Ravager of Giants. Shortly after killing the 3rd Champion of Rajaat, Hamanu lost the Scorcher in the Silt Sea near Giustenal. It is believed that the assassins of Dregoth witnessed how easily the Scorcher slew the king of Giustenal, and it was agreed that this weapon of Rajaat could pose a threat to them some day - and was better off lost to all of Athas...
Whic doesn't quite explain it. I think the other Artifact book, which isn't specifically Dark Sun material, and has the Silencer in it, explains it better.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
I'm curious: What makes you think Hamanu is not immune to the Scorcher?
How else would you test someone by giving them the task to out the very person you are replacing?
Do you think Rajaat would have made it that easy for Hammanu? If he was immune to the scorcher then it would have been an easy victory for Hammanu, and I don't see that in Rajaat's nature at all.
Sure he might have told Hammanu that Myron's sword wouldn't effect him, but once it was said and done it could and it made it more of a fight and should Rajaat whether Hammanu was worthy or not by seeing how well he took out Myron.
At least that is the way I see it anyways. I think specific passage in the Pentad that you quoted is a little messed up, but not unfixable.
Besides, pretty sure PAoA states what I stated above, could be wrong and can't really look it up right now. Remember reading that not only was it the only Rajaat crafted artifact sword, out of the three that could affect him, but that it was also by design, whether Rajaat did that to Hammanu or did it to the sword knowing all along he was going to replace Myron.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Besides, pretty sure PAoA states what I stated above, could be wrong and can't really look it up right now. Remember reading that not only was it the only Rajaat crafted artifact sword, out of the three that could affect him, but that it was also by design, whether Rajaat did that to Hammanu or did it to the sword knowing all along he was going to replace Myron.
Hmmm, maybe it was BoA.
Will check when I get home.
Going to start beefing up on all my old DS stuff anyways, hehe.
The Scorcher does state that it ignores all magical defences, and that it could kill a SK, but really that is it.
Good question. Will have to find The Crimson Legion and see what Hamanu said when Rikus struck him with the Scourge.
The scourge definately couldn't affect Hammanu, but nothing in the silencer or the scorcher says it couldn't affect Hammanu.
I'm basically going to go with my original though process, only because it makes sense, and then add on what xlorep has done to Hammanu with the dragon bane weapons being able to heal him, etc.
Use my idea or abuse it, hehe.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Use my idea or abuse it, hehe.
Ohh, asking for abuse, eh? ;)
I too for some reason have always thought that the Scorcher could affect Hamanu. I know I must have read it somewhere; I'm not much on independant thought when it comes to campaign settings. I can find no evidence to that end though...
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I'm basically going to go with my original though process, only because it makes sense, and then add on what xlorep has done to Hammanu with the dragon bane weapons being able to heal him, etc.
The intersting thing about the Dragon Bane weapons healing him is - only the bonus "damage" heals. the regular damage of the weapon still hurts. So, if a weapon did 1d8+2 (a +2 for strength) you'd roll that up as a range og 3 - 10 damage. However, it also heals 2d6 +2 (for being a bane weapon) points, which is a range of 4 - 14 to heal. So, effectively, the weapon could potentially heal him 11 points, or hurt him as much as 6 points - after adjusting for both effects. However, it will balance out to negligable results overall.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
Why would Hamanu be immune to the Scourge then? If Rajaat wanted to leave him vulnerable to the Scorcher as some sort of a test when facing Myron, why would he have bothered to make him invulnerable to the Scourge?
So that Borys wouldn't turn and kill the Infedel who replaces Myron. Look at it this way - Myron is most likely one of Rajaat's first generals, and helped during the Preserver War. Borys also, seems to have garnered some levels of respect (if applicable) from Rajaat - or at least that impression is given to them (the Champions, and readers of history), as he gets the Scourge. Then Hamanu comes and kills Myron - Borys might have gotten upset, gone and killed Hamanu for killing his "comrade", without bothering to check if Hamanu is legit. So then, Rajaat makes Hamanu immune to the Scourge, and poof - Borys is unable to do so. If there's one thing that seems to stand out with me about Borys - he tends to be impulsive on things, from time to time.
Also, Borys and Hamanu seemed to have been close, since Hamany went to him to tell him of Rajaat's ''betrayal''.
And in any case, it just seems dumb that Rajaat would proof Hamanu against Borys's sword, but not against that of the guy he's sending him to kill:
---
Rajaat: Now, Manu of Deche, I shall bestow upon you a special gift, that you shall accomplish thy mission swiftly and absolutely!
Hamanu: Yes, my liege.
Rajaat: Thou has been rendered immune to the bite of the Scourge, and none who wield it shall be able to cast you down. Now go and bring forth my will upon Myron the Traitor!
Hamanu: Yes, but my liege, is it not the Scorcher, and not the Scourge, that Myron weilds?
Rajaat: Indeed.
Hamanu: ...
Rajaat: And what of it???
Hamanu: N-Nothing, my liege, but if I may, would it not have made more sense if you had protect...
Rajaat: Do you presume to question MY will???
Hamanu: No! No my liege.
Rajaat: Then GO! NOW!!!
Hamanu: Yes, my liege. (mumbles: Wait 'till I tell Borys about this...)
;)
If Hamanu was supposed to be the Champion to kill all of the other Champions, and all of the humans along with them, why would Rajaat give them anything that could affect his "perfect" Champion?
We know that Borys is still affected by the Scourge even after becoming The Dragon. If these weapons could affect Hamanu the "lesser" Champions could have possibly destroyed Rajaat's creation.
Thanks to squidfur for pointing me in the right direction.
PAoA p.4 - existing artifacts...
"...Of these three swords only the Silencer of Bodach is capable of harming Hamanu of Urik, as was Rajaat's design..."
That makes a hell of alot more sense since the Silencer was lost well before Manu, who later becomes Hammanu was ever even thought of.
160th King's Age (-2,310)
-The warlord Irikos, the left hand of Rajaat, sacks the city of Bodach-but is killed at the conclusion of the battle. His sword (a creation of Rajaat's), the Silencer, is lost for 2,000 years.
163rd King's Age (-2,079)
-King's Vengeance
Myron of Yorum is replaced as Troll Scorcher by Manu of Deche, later known as Hamanu of Urik. He is given the sword the Scorcher, created by Rajaat, to complete his task.
Boom...
But, he's also cursed - I'm working on ways so that when he fuels spells with life energy (both dragon magic and "normal" defiler magic) it accelerates his progression on the Dragon metamorphosis. He automatically has had all of the spells for the metamorphosis, reworked by Rajaat, done for him, so technicaly, he doesn't have different stages of progress. He automatically must take a level of Dragon every 5 levels he advances, unless other things that would hasten the development (like use of arcane magic) are done. This also includes people casting arcane spells on him, and if he doesn't use the energy from that spell for his own spells, it accelerates him further. He's kind of like an energy-vampire, and in a very Vampire Hunter D or Blade like manner, starves himself to avoid the inevitability of his progression - for fear of what Rajaat's plans were for him. He struggles with hunger of the life-essence of Humans and other rebirth races not already tasked to other Champions, as well as for the energies of the other Champions themselves - which is why he remains alone as much as possible (and is my explanation as to yet another reason he killed Sielba - she got too close, and he was afraid he'd slip into temptation and consume her, so instead he killed her and demolished her city). The other Sorcerer-Kings aren't aware of this starvation he does, or that he has physically withered so much from it. They also aren't aware of all of the implications of his existence - he's not prone to explaining it to them. then again, he also firmly believes that the others also automatically advance through the dragon metamorphosis like he does, even though their process was initiated by Borys. The only real thing that Hamanu cares for any longer is his people, in the city of Urik. To them, he's more like a strict, but caring leader. His laws must be rigidly obeyed, and he doesn't tolerate any slips from them, but to those who do follow the law, he protects. to outsiders, he's possibly the most ruthless and vile being in the area - who will stop at nothing to protect his belived city.
...well, that's my take on him. The way he can be so caring to his people and yet still be evil, is the same reason that even an evil person could be a loving parent. He just sees the citizens of Urik as his beloved children. But to everyone else, he's a monster - and he really doesn't care what everyone outside of Urik thinks of him.
One mystery solved. Now to find out definitivly if Irikos was a Champion or a champion...
Originally posted by Ground_State Johnny
Huzzah!
One mystery solved. Now to find out definitivly if Irikos was a Champion or a champion...
Officially he was a warlord that was damn cool enough to get a sword, like Myron was.
Unofficially, Kalak was a "doddering old fool" and not a real champion and helped Irikos, the real champion, out during the Cleansing Wars.
Read my article on my site for more details, but this one has been solved for quite some time.
