Grumble.
Grumble.
...err, welcome to the boards. Umm, check out the official site for Dark Sun, at Athas.org, where they have been working on a 3e/3.5e conversion of Dark Sun for the last four years, and were ystematically discarded for the load of crap that was released by Paizo. Ok, that's a bit harsh. Sorry.... Umm.... If you like dark Sun, I'd suggest looking at both fully official conversions, and then deciding which you like better, or how to use parts of each together. There's a lot of problems with the Paizo version, just look at about (what is it?) every other post on this forum dating back to the release date of those articles. If you want to see the original setting, you are able to buy them cheap from SVGames, for about $5 a piece, if I remember correctly, in PDF/downloadable format. With that, and the Athas.org rules, you'll be set for some really cool Dark Sun campaigns
. Also, to see what others have been doing with Dark Sun, I highly suggest checking out the Silt Skimmer, which has the largest list of Dark Sun links I know of, and is religiously updated and watched by that site's admin (Grummore, who posts on this forum).once again, welcome.
Originally posted by Wasgo
I know that the weapon breakage, armour penalties and Bard prestige class were cut from the printed version, has there been any luck getting them posted yet?
Uh, buy the freaking magazine?
And if not, anyone doing any homebrew rules for them?
I'm doing my own D20 (/me annoys Darkhelm and Dawnstealer some more) write up of DS and will post it once I get my own flavor text in.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I'm doing my own D20 (/me annoys Darkhelm and Dawnstealer some more) write up of DS and will post it once I get my own flavor text in.
How does that annoy me? I've got my own set of rules for my games I use...
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
How does that annoy me? I've got my own set of rules for my games I use...
Nevermind, guess I misunderstood the original intent of that last rant you had about DS being D20, hehe.
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Originally posted by Wasgo
I know that the weapon breakage, armour penalties and Bard prestige class were cut from the printed version, has there been any luck getting them posted yet?
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Uh, buy the freaking magazine?
Uh...read the freaking question?
He's asking about the info that was cut from the printed version...as in...isn't in Dragon Magazine.
It goes like this:
Closer to the canon and feel of DS: Athas.org. Closer to d20ish and D&D worlds: Paizo. Pick the one that works for you.
Why were they cut? No idea. Probably the same minds that thought that bearded dwarves and paladins were swell. As far as rules go, you'd probably do well to check out the official Dark Sun site that Xlor pointed out in his post.
Thanks and welcome to the DS boards.
So maybe he should re-state the question better. heh
I reread the question...
No, the stuff that got cut hasn't been printed yet, and I doubt it can since it was bought from David Noonan and is now Paizo's IP.
So probably not happening.
As Nyt said, I doubt those rules will see the light of day anytime in the near future, since the parts of the article Paizo cut are still owned by Paizo. Still, it would be fun to pick Senor Noonans brain a bit on those subjects.
That said, I probably will use the Paizo stuff for now, and had no idea how to sift through the hundreds of posts on the topic. At this point, I'd consider my original question answered.
I don't mean any disrespect to the great work Athas.org people have done, but printing costs money, so I was looking for something in the interm.
I've seen it. I'm scarred for life...
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Art's overrated. Besides, their guy doing the monsters is a hack.
Damn if that isn't true. I've been to his website and with a few years of training, a couple years of pratice and hours to work per day, I could turn out art that good too. What a lack of talent. ;)
I bet he gets paid lots of money by the athas.org team ;) What a whacko... 
Originally posted by Wasgo
I love the inherent assumptions in the replies. To be fair, I've been following the Athas.org project for years, and fully intend to go with those rules, but not until the 3.5 psionics and art is included. Simply put, I only intend to print it out once and I don't play with a computer handy.
That said, I probably will use the Paizo stuff for now, and had no idea how to sift through the hundreds of posts on the topic. At this point, I'd consider my original question answered.
I don't mean any disrespect to the great work Athas.org people have done, but printing costs money, so I was looking for something in the interm.
Hmm. A real shame you're so....limited. Oh well. And I don't measn about printing the material. I don't print (all of) it, I don't have a computer handy when I run my games, and yet I get the info I need, make notes for the stuff, and print out one or two pages with stats for the session. It's far less expensive than you think. But, to each their own.
And sheesh - you've got some real restrictive limitations on what your reasons for Athas.org stuff is - but I guess that's ok. Of course, most of the art is up on the link I provided (or you can find it in Dawnstealer's signature). I flip through it to get ideas myself, or to show players, when we aren't actually playing the game, what the creatures they've been fighting look like.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Art's overrated. Besides, their guy doing the monsters is a hack.
That's funny.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Art's overrated. Besides, their guy doing the monsters is a hack.
Man, more true words have never been spoken. Look at this: pic
I mean, come on, everyone knows that Athasians have 2 left hands, not right ones. ;)
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
IT WAS A MUTATION!! Dammit!
We all know your skill is unmatched. Even with mutants.
In the most recent Dungeon, #111, with all of the "new" monsters, the art was ok, but it looked too much like Baxa's stuff.
Not that his (Baxa) DS stuff was bad, but a LOT of it wasn't good. Especially the black and white stuff in many of the supplements.
His monster pics were good in some places, such as the DSMCII, most of the art in that was good, not great, not crappy, just good. Although his dwarves and muls with ponytails were kinda silly. To each their own I guess.
Now if Brom has done all that work...........ohhhhhhh baby........*DROOL*
Originally posted by Tembo-Pie
Oh god, those Baxa B&W pics on the flipbooks you mean? Man, I totally stopped showing some of those to my PC's when we played cause they kept making fun on the gargantuan hats he would draw on EVERYBODY. The templars had these weird shells or extremely tall tops hats with beads and, ....ugh.....getting sick.
Man, those hats...
DiTerlizzi was quite into his hats too (check out the picture of the Council of Advisors - since dubbed The Funny Hat Brigade by my players).
We have kind of decided that hats are just the current fashion across the Tablelands. Last season it was chitin plates, the year before that it was spikes. This year it's hats big enough to hide a Black Tree halfling under...
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
I'll admit that I really, really want to draw Agis with one of those big "fruit-basket" hats. That'd be cool.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Must not be a person who has ever bothered with 2e Dark Sun, or read the novels :P to each his own, I say.
I don't really get why you find it so hard to accept people liking the Paizo one. Yes it changed a number of key concepts, and yes it varies signifcantly from the flavour of 2e Dark Sun. But, it's still a decent set of rules, albeit missing the ones I personally want and started this topic for. Personally I've got the 2e rules sitting on the desk right beside me. As much as I loved those rules, I'm not looking for a precise translation to 3.5. If I wanted the exact style of 2e, I'd play 2e. As it is, I want to fit the setting to the rules, not fit the rules to the setting. The reason I'm using 3.5 is that everyone I know plays 3.5. Rules aren't the most vital part of D&D for me, and I like what Paizo did with the setting. It may not mesh well with Dark Sun cannon, but as a DM I can honestly say that once a campaign starts, the only thing official is what I designate as offical anyway.
I have to admit that I like the athas.org version much more, as I feel that it's much truer to the setting. Unlike you, I feel the rules should fit the setting, but that's why there's a debate. You make a good point, though, and again I'll say: "use what works for your campaign and fits your style."
Oh, info-wise, it's "canon." A "cannon" is a gun.
Originally posted by Wasgo
I don't really get why you find it so hard to accept people liking the Paizo one. Yes it changed a number of key concepts, and yes it varies signifcantly from the flavour of 2e Dark Sun. But, it's still a decent set of rules, albeit missing the ones I personally want and started this topic for. Personally I've got the 2e rules sitting on the desk right beside me. As much as I loved those rules, I'm not looking for a precise translation to 3.5. If I wanted the exact style of 2e, I'd play 2e. As it is, I want to fit the setting to the rules, not fit the rules to the setting. The reason I'm using 3.5 is that everyone I know plays 3.5. Rules aren't the most vital part of D&D for me, and I like what Paizo did with the setting. It may not mesh well with Dark Sun cannon, but as a DM I can honestly say that once a campaign starts, the only thing official is what I designate as offical anyway.
Why I find it hard to accept it myself, is because I've seen when conversions have been done right, and when they have been beaten over the head with some commitee that has no clue what they are doing, and significantly alters the original because they feel that it's a smart buisness move, and disregard the community all together. The Paizo Dark Sun conversion did the latter, not the former. Even if they didn't use the Athas.org design, they could have attempted to not butcher the original script they were given into that monstrocity it became. It isn't Dark Sun. Anyt more than Forgotten Realms is Dragonlance. The two are somewhat similar on the surface, but they aren't the same thing. And anyone with a brain who has looked at what dark Sun was in the past, would see that clearly. Making decisions like what was done with the magazine Dark Sun conversions are about the dumbest things I can possibly think a buisness could do. Disregard the community of fans, and just put whatever they feel they can out there, and they'd know people would buy it simply because it has their name on it, regardless of quality. Unfortunately, they are sadly quite true, and people will do just that.
My other gripe is those who can't apparently read. those who come to this very forum, adon't bother to read even the subjects/titles of the threads on the first page, and just go to click the new post button. Then ask a question that has been asked as much as a dozen times in the same day. These people are just downright rude - they expect people to keep repeating things for them, simply because they didn't want to be bothered with checking to see if their question has been answered. I'm not talking about people who ask something that had been asked a long time before - I'm talking about things that are asked and the question is the post at the very top of the damned list of threads on this forum. These people drive me insane, and I feel it is my right to make them feel as small as their minds apparently are. Now, other people I'm OK with, just those who don't bother to check things out or follow basic rules of ettiquette, well, those deserve the Wrath of God to come down on them. Some don't like it, but hoinestly, those who don't want to be botherted with the concept of thinking, or to even glance at the thread topics when they get to this forum, well, I don't see how such indivisuals could contribute in a constructive manner to the forums. The funnier thing is that then I'm looked at as a sort of badguy in this - simply because I attempt to expect some modicum of decency and respect for others.
In short, Xlor is correct: Paizo, by the author's own admission, took the version handed to them and "Wiz-ified" it, basically slamming the round peg that is Athas down the square hole of the d20 and D&D system. While some of it works, a lot of it is crap. I do like the fact that it was placed so far in the future, however. Doing that almost makes it a different campaign world, so both can exist without nullifying the other.
Xlor: they're boards and people are looking for info. It's not always clear that "New Web Page" is actually a post regarding all the art I'm doing for Dark Sun, or any of the other posts ("Newbs post here") that start out on one subject and work their way into a tangent. Some people want a quick answer to a specific question and don't want to spend an hour or more on us regulars wrangling our way through it.
Is it annoying to get asked the same question over and over? Yes, but it's also necessary if the community is going to increase.
Also, I know what Paizo has done doesn't feel like Dark Sun to you. Perhaps the elements that were important to me, are different than the ones that are important to you. It has most of the elements that mattered to me from Dark Sun and I don't mind using it. As for the term 'butcher the original script', I don't think that's fair. I personally don't agree with the changes that were made, but it is an editor's right to make them. And as many authors will tell you, often these changes are for the better. In this case, the changes moved it further from Dark Sun and closer to standard D&D. As a fan of Dark Sun, I'm annoyed. However, if I wasn't a fan, the setting presented would be much more useful to me the closer to the standard D&D it was. In terms of ignoring the community, I'm relatively certain that was a legal requirement, plus the writer of the piece had created the setting independantly. I don't think it's quite as black and white as you claim.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
These people drive me insane, and I feel it is my right to make them feel as small as their minds apparently are. Now, other people I'm OK with, just those who don't bother to check things out or follow basic rules of ettiquette, well, those deserve the Wrath of God to come down on them.
While I appreciate your views on forum etiquette, I cannot condone the idea that any board member has the right to make another "feel small", simply for not seeing a topic that has already been discussed or for not taking the time to do some research. If this annoys you, then you don't have to reply. Or you can reply and point the poster to the other thread. Simple as that.
There are differing opinions on the Dark Sun rules by Paizo, especially when compared to the work that Athas.org has done. It's fine to have those differing opinions.
Just remember that these boards are here to discuss Dark Sun in all its incarnations, whether it be one of the 2e boxed sets, Athas.org, Paizo, or a homebrewed rendition of the setting. Some will prefer one rendition over another, but there is room enough for all.
--Drake
Originally posted by Wasgo
Even saying that I should have read the other topics in full (which would probably be searching through over 300 posts), other people may have done homebrew rules and not posted them. There is no reason for me not to have asked.
I doubt it. It really hasn't been out that long.
Originally posted by Nightdruid
I doubt it. It really hasn't been out that long.
Yeah, that one gripe thread was pretty huge, but don't recall the other 10 or so being anywhere near 300 posts, combined or not.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Yeah, that one gripe thread was pretty huge, but don't recall the other 10 or so being anywhere near 300 posts, combined or not.
Guess everyone has got to have their own private thread or something...
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Yeah, that one gripe thread was pretty huge, but don't recall the other 10 or so being anywhere near 300 posts, combined or not.
Dragon #319's take on DS 3.5: 247
WTF ........Athas is destroyed!!!: 62
Dragon Magazine DARKSUN PHB: 60
So that's 369 right there, and that's not counting all the ones which have a smaller number of posts, or off-topic references....
Originally posted by Wasgo
So that's 369 right there, and that's not counting all the ones which have a smaller number of posts, or off-topic references....
I think you meant dwelfing, didn't you?
Originally posted by Wasgo
Dragon #319's take on DS 3.5: 247
WTF ........Athas is destroyed!!!: 62
Dragon Magazine DARKSUN PHB: 60
So that's 369 right there, and that's not counting all the ones which have a smaller number of posts, or off-topic references....
I stand corrected.
Doesn't change the fact that a simple search for what you were wanting previously could have probably saved even more of your time and you wouldn't have had bothered to post then.
But like Nightdruid said, guess everyone has to have their own private thread in order to feel special, or get the attention they need or whatever.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Doesn't change the fact that a simple search for what you were wanting previously could have probably saved even more of your time and you wouldn't have had bothered to post then.
I actually did consider this, but I wasn't able to (and still can't) come up with what exactly terms I should have searched for.
This poor guy comes in, asks a question about whether anyone has seen the stuff that was cut from the printed version, and gets his butt jumped for a simple question.
He's not whining about the Paizo version, or whining about the Athas.org version, and since he knows that the material was cut, he obviously has been reading on the boards, since that wasn't exactly included in Dragon. I think next time some of us should take the time to read what was written, maybe take it in the spirit that it was written, and welcome someone to the community, instead of going off half cocked on a rant. Just my opinion of course, but take it as you will.
Ok, we begin with the Athas.org setting...
So, the players get a chance to to do some immensely powerful act that will change the face of Athas forever. Something bizzare, but it really doesn't matter what, let your imagination go wild. For arguments sake, let's say they have to destroy some artifact. (bear with me...)
After they accomplish this act, they somehow gain a chance to travel through time, to see how their actions changed the world.
Cut to Pazio Dark Sun...
PCs must confront the horror that Athas has become.
-"What's up with all these hairy S-K lovin' dwarves!?"
-"Hey, look at all the tiny elves!"
-"Oh no! Watch out, the Druids have Unionized!"
-"Man, this stinks... Let's go beat up those puny Half Giants...."
So the PCs must travel back in time to undo their great heroic act in order to save Athas from the Pazio treatment.
They go back in time, to some time before they destroy the artifact. Being the sneaky PCs that they are, they substitute a fake artifact for the artifact that they will destroy in the future.
Feeling satisfied with their Phyrric victory, they travel to their original present.
Only to discover...
Baxa DS
The monopolistic rise of the goofy hat textile industry!
See? Everybody Wins!
Dawnstealer:
Paizo, by the author's own admission, took the version handed to them and "Wiz-ified" it, basically slamming the round peg that is Athas down the square hole of the d20 and D&D system.
Me:
Normally I agree with Dawnstealer, but here I have to make an exception. I feel it was more like ramming a square peg into a round hole. A fundamental difference.
Originally posted by Wasgo
First of all, the reason you're being portrayed badly is because you use expressions like 'anyone with a brain' to negatively portray people that disagree with you. Secondly, I have being reading this forum actively for longer than I can remember, I simply choose not to post. The two points in the orignal post are that I don't want to read through the entire set of Paizo posts which are spread out among many small topics, and because I wanted to see if anyone had done their own homebrew rules. Even saying that I should have read the other topics in full (which would probably be searching through over 300 posts), other people may have done homebrew rules and not posted them. There is no reason for me not to have asked.
About the "with a brain", I'm sorry - it was a very poor choice of words. But in all honesty, I don't understand how anyone could confuse the Paizo wirte-ups with actual Dark Sun. It's an unfortunate side-effect that it is official, as official as Athas.org or the 2e materials, but when it comes to discrepencies and inconsistancies, it's far easier to point at what it has right, than what it has wrong. I also didn't imply you had to read every part of other posts - I just feel it's increasingly annoying for everyone to keep wanting their own posts for the hot topic, as if it belittles them to post in something another person has started, especially when it's the same topic of duscussion. That, to me, is almost an uppity, arrogant view, and is frustrating to people who like to actually use forums for conversations, when there are a dozen posts about one topic, when they could have all been one post/thread together, especially when you have to keep answering the same damned questions dozens of times a day.
Also, I know what Paizo has done doesn't feel like Dark Sun to you. Perhaps the elements that were important to me, are different than the ones that are important to you. It has most of the elements that mattered to me from Dark Sun and I don't mind using it. As for the term 'butcher the original script', I don't think that's fair. I personally don't agree with the changes that were made, but it is an editor's right to make them. And as many authors will tell you, often these changes are for the better. In this case, the changes moved it further from Dark Sun and closer to standard D&D. As a fan of Dark Sun, I'm annoyed. However, if I wasn't a fan, the setting presented would be much more useful to me the closer to the standard D&D it was. In terms of ignoring the community, I'm relatively certain that was a legal requirement, plus the writer of the piece had created the setting independantly. I don't think it's quite as black and white as you claim.
Well - what Paizo has is vanilla D&D with Dark Sun food-coloring added. It looks the same, but it isn't the same. Making sorcerers hide as wizards to avoid being killed - that's just lame. Especially for anyone who has ever read a damned thing about Dark Sun - it makes no sense. I'm not pointing out little discrepencies that are for fanatical people to adhhere to some specific set of rules, I'm pointing out blatant violations of what the Dark Sun setting is defined by, the very core values therein.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Xlor: they're boards and people are looking for info. It's not always clear that "New Web Page" is actually a post regarding all the art I'm doing for Dark Sun, or any of the other posts ("Newbs post here") that start out on one subject and work their way into a tangent. Some people want a quick answer to a specific question and don't want to spend an hour or more on us regulars wrangling our way through it.
But when you see a post "Question about Dragons & Avangions", in which is a question about who converted it, if anyone did at all, and it's the first thread in the forum list, then you post "Dragons & Avangions, HELP PLEASE!" and ask the very same thing - that's not a newbie, that's someone being extraordinarily rude - they don't want to be bothered with even glancing at the other threads, anfd must feel special by posting their own thread. Thoise are the types of people I get irritated over. I know there are posts that have more....convoluded names, I understand this, and I generally try to refrain from getting upset about those. I get upset about the ones where the BLATSATLY OBVIOUS thread titles, that can easily be construed as having something to do with ayour question, are ignored for the sake of not wanting to read the thread titles.
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
While I appreciate your views on forum etiquette, I cannot condone the idea that any board member has the right to make another "feel small", simply for not seeing a topic that has already been discussed or for not taking the time to do some research. If this annoys you, then you don't have to reply. Or you can reply and point the poster to the other thread. Simple as that.
good point, sorry, I was blowing off steam, in the wrong direction I might add. Just have been dealing with some very frustrating things today, and... well.... I kinda exploded here.
There are differing opinions on the Dark Sun rules by Paizo, especially when compared to the work that Athas.org has done. It's fine to have those differing opinions.
True, very true. I do need to stop bothering with making such strong replies, it's gotten very old, and I'm putting far too much energy into it.
Just remember that these boards are here to discuss Dark Sun in all its incarnations, whether it be one of the 2e boxed sets, Athas.org, Paizo, or a homebrewed rendition of the setting. Some will prefer one rendition over another, but there is room enough for all.
--Drake
I guess - I still don't like the Paizo version.... the ball was dropped, and when I see people asking about it, I feel like I wish I could shove my copy of the athas.org & 2e materials through my screen into their eyesockets.
"Making sorcerers hide as wizards to avoid being killed - that's just lame. Especially for anyone who has ever read a damned thing about Dark Sun - it makes no sense."
Xlor, Xlor, Xlor...
silly Xlor, this is so easily explained!
Uh, so you see, both wizards and sorcerers cast spells, so um..
well, sorcerers, see, don't need to, uh..
but, um, wizards... they, uh, well..
and when a mob, uh..
no wait.. I mean.....
Uh, could I get back to you on this one...?
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Well - what Paizo has is vanilla D&D with Dark Sun food-coloring added. It looks the same, but it isn't the same. Making sorcerers hide as wizards to avoid being killed - that's just lame. Especially for anyone who has ever read a damned thing about Dark Sun - it makes no sense. I'm not pointing out little discrepencies that are for fanatical people to adhhere to some specific set of rules, I'm pointing out blatant violations of what the Dark Sun setting is defined by, the very core values therein.
Well, the Sorcerer thing did actually make sense in context. Wizards are now allowed in Tyr so long as they are preservers. And while admittedly nothing short of ridiculously harsh laws makes sense in Athas, laws would have to be harsher on sorcerers. Essentially, you can stop a wizard by defiling by taking away her spellbook but nothing short of death can stop a sorcerer from defiling. So, while a wizard might be stripped of her possesions and sold into slavery, a sorcerer would have to be killed.
All that being said, I'd probably go with the author's feeling that it encrouches on the psion, and remove the sorcerer, along with the paladin, monk and bard.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Making sorcerers hide as wizards to avoid being killed - that's just lame. Especially for anyone who has ever read a damned thing about Dark Sun - it makes no sense.
Two words: Spellbook envy.
I guess - I still don't like the Paizo version.... the ball was dropped, and when I see people asking about it, I feel like I wish I could shove my copy of the athas.org & 2e materials through my screen into their eyesockets.
I feel ya there. And, since we can say "ass" now...
Anyways, people will have their own opinions and this is a public board, so all should be respected, even if we don't agree with them. Remember, for some of these folks, the first time they ever heard of Dark Sun was when they picked up that Dragon or Dungeon mag. Bad for us, but maybe good for the community.
On to the topic of etiquette on the boards, sure it's rude, but their public boards, so you're going to get that weird, homeless guy wandering in shouting about how the government is reading our thoughts from a radar dish hidden in his **** [edit: I can say "ass" but I can't say @nus? That's just weird, guys. Seriously.] occasionally. Answer the question, if you can. If you're tired of the question, grit your teeth and let someone else try.
This topic has gotten waaaaaaay off course. The original question was: Are there any additions to Paizo Dark Sun. As in, are they coming out with more Dungeons or Dragons devoted to the topic of Dark Sun or is this it? Is Wizards coming out with an officially sactioned Dark Sun game?
Simple answer is this: As far as I know, there is one more Dragon (#111) that's devoted to the rest of the monsters. Paizo might pull out another article if their sales are high enough, but this is probably it for now. After all, that kind of (ahem) stuff is hard to pull out of thin air.
The second question is a bit harder to answer. Athas.org was the officially sanctioned fan site of Dark Sun, which makes it a bit confusing why Paizo was allowed to create their own version (thankfully far in the future), but my guess is this: "Money talks."
So Paizo is just as official as Athas.org (sigh).
Is Wizards going to produce Dark Sun? No. Easy as that. Wizards is trying to avoid the trap that TSR fell into when they released roughly seven billion campaign worlds all competing for gaming dollars.
Hope that answers the question and kills off this god-awful flame fest before it goes any farther.
Xlor, Xlor, Xlor...
silly Xlor, this is so easily explained!
Uh, so you see, both wizards and sorcerers cast spells, so um..
well, sorcerers, see, don't need to, uh..
but, um, wizards... they, uh, well..
and when a mob, uh..
no wait.. I mean.....
Uh, could I get back to you on this one...
They're dwelfs.
All dwelfs are sorcerers. It's a fact.
Duh.
"They're dwelfs.
All dwelfs are sorcerers. It's a fact.
Duh."
yes, yes, YES!
That's what I was trying to say.
See? Simple...
Originally posted by Wasgo
All that being said, I'd probably go with the author's feeling that it encrouches on the psion, and remove the sorcerer, along with the paladin, monk and bard.
Nah, leave monk, they fit, take out all the rest.
"Ass" is probably accepted because it also means male donkey.
A male dwelf! A male dwelf is called an @nus!
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
While I appreciate your views on forum etiquette, I cannot condone the idea that any board member has the right to make another "feel small", simply for not seeing a topic that has already been discussed or for not taking the time to do some research. If this annoys you, then you don't have to reply. Or you can reply and point the poster to the other thread. Simple as that.
There are differing opinions on the Dark Sun rules by Paizo, especially when compared to the work that Athas.org has done. It's fine to have those differing opinions.
Just remember that these boards are here to discuss Dark Sun in all its incarnations, whether it be one of the 2e boxed sets, Athas.org, Paizo, or a homebrewed rendition of the setting. Some will prefer one rendition over another, but there is room enough for all.
--Drake
:D
:invasion: 
Awwwwwwww....
What about my collection of my little ponies?
Carebear stare!
quote:
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Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Must not be a person who has ever bothered with 2e Dark Sun, or read the novels to each his own, I say.
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I don't really get why you find it so hard to accept people liking the Paizo one. Yes it changed a number of key concepts, and yes it varies signifcantly from the flavour of 2e Dark Sun. But, it's still a decent set of rules, albeit missing the ones I personally want and started this topic for. Personally I've got the 2e rules sitting on the desk right beside me. As much as I loved those rules, I'm not looking for a precise translation to 3.5. If I wanted the exact style of 2e, I'd play 2e. As it is, I want to fit the setting to the rules, not fit the rules to the setting. The reason I'm using 3.5 is that everyone I know plays 3.5. Rules aren't the most vital part of D&D for me, and I like what Paizo did with the setting. It may not mesh well with Dark Sun cannon, but as a DM I can honestly say that once a campaign starts, the only thing official is what I designate as offical anyway.
Exactly. I HAVE played and run 2nd Edition Dark Sun years ago. I have since played and preferred 3rd Edition and 3.5. I liked the Dragon Magazine version a little more as I basically wanted to run a basic D20 game with a Dark Sun 'flavor' as opposed to fully authentic Dark Sun canon. I can fully understand and support each person preffering their own style and world. As for the world background itself in the magazine article ruining it, it won't for me as I am just using most of the material but will run it set back just after the Freedom & Road to Urik modules.
Originally posted by Demon Gnome
Exactly. I HAVE played and run 2nd Edition Dark Sun years ago. I have since played and preferred 3rd Edition and 3.5. I liked the Dragon Magazine version a little more as I basically wanted to run a basic D20 game with a Dark Sun 'flavor' as opposed to fully authentic Dark Sun canon.
I'm like this too. Personally, I like the idea of taking rules I'm familiar with and using them in a new setting, rather than having to learn a bunch of setting-specific rules. There will be some, of course.
Each person will run Dark Sun differently. Some will run a true-to-canon game. Others will personalize it and make it their own.
The beauty part is that now there's rules for both sides of the spectrum. Athas.org's rules are great for those wanting to follow DS canon. Paizo's rules are great for those wanting to use the PHB with some DS flavor.
DM's are then free to personalize their campaign however they wish, using whichever rules system they like the best (or a mix of both), or using their own homebrew rules.
I myself would like the athas.org stuff better but that's just me. It's also one of the many reasons I just play 2e and don't worry about conversion. :D But, again, that's just one of many ways to do things.