Glantrian parliamentary votes - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Glantrian parliamentary votes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
spellweaver
May 19, 2004 17:00:28 I am trying to figure out the Web of Intrigue in Glantrian politics and how I am going to make room for the PC wizard in my group of players.

Using the Gaz. 3 for AC 1000 we see that there are not many baronies in which to begin (assuming the local baron dies or is promoted).

It seems unlikely to me that Malachie would move from Morlay since all his werecreature buddies hang around in that area. He stays.

The ghost of baroness McDuff needs to be dealt with if the barony of Uigmuir is to be vacant. Either some (cleric) gets rid of her or the players bring her rest by finding her lost son. But then HE is entitled to the dominion (since, according to Gaz. 10 "Orcs of Thar" he is a skilled magic-user).

Baron Pieter of Oxhill and Dona Isabella of Egorn are locked in competition for an Enfiefment of Sablestone, would they move to a viscounty? Perhaps. On the other hand, if I need to move all the nobles one rank up to free a barony, I'll need to make Harald Haaskinz Prince of Sablestone. And then there is nothing left for Pieter and Isabella to fight about.

Alternatively, there is Adlerturm owned by Franz Lowenroth.

And, of course, there are all the baronies in alligiance to House of Igorov. And here is something which puzzles me:

Gaz. 3, page 25:
"Morphail plans to have these barons increase their lands and then abdicate in his favour. Boldavia will then cover the whole northeastern area of Glantri, making him the most powerful prince".

How does this benefit Morphail? Even if Boldavia is elevated to Archduchy status (which it wont because of the distance to Glantri City and the Order of the Radiance, page 15) he would only gain another 5 voting points at the Council but loose 15 points in Parliament votes (5 new votes - 20 old barons' votes)??

Or can Morphail be the baron of six baronies at once?

Anybody has this one figures out?

Anybody has a good idea where to start my PC's career as a baron?

:-) Jesper
#2
Cthulhudrew
May 19, 2004 17:36:20 Why not have the PC start his own brand new barony? There is no rule against creating new baronies, and after all the baronies and counties, etc. had to come from somewhere.

In fact, the discussion of politics in the Gaz pretty much state that such events do happen- all that really needs to take place is for the Council of Princes to have a need to create a barony- for instance, say the populace of a rural region petitions for more order in the area (they are plagued by humanoids, and want more direct assistance in the region, for example) or there is strife that needs a hand (the Free Fundamentalist Farmers or Followers of the Claymore in a rural area are getting particularly strong and influential, and the Princes want to break up their gig- I could see this particularly in the Sablestone region; in fact that's the primary reason that area eventually becomes a Principality).

Here are some scenarios off the top of my head, and the possible complications (of which there are potentially many):

1) Gnolls are plaguing people in the northern mountainous regions, far from the capital and any nearby fort. The people cry out for help, and enlist magistrates to petition the council for the enfoeffment of a barony. The competition opens, and the PC is eligible.

Complications: The gnolls are being stirred up by a Glantrian wizard who wants to run for baron himself. He is enfuriated by the PC getting involved and possibly taking away his barony. This could set up a long term rival for the PC, or possibly be an existing rival.

2) The Followers of the Claymore in the Sablestone area are working with the Free Fundamentalist Farmers (possibly even nefarious elements in the Mumlyket of Kadesh to the west!) to stir up rebellion in the region. The Princes are alarmed, and decide to enfeoff another barony in the region to help quell the problem. The PC who is selected will have to prove himself to be a staunch ally of the Council and take a firm hand against the mundaners.
Complications: The other barons in the region, particularly Pieter Vandehaar, who is working with the rebels in hopes of getting a principality out of the deal, are furious at the "lessening" of their influence in politics. The FFF and FoC are furious at the PCs. The princes (particularly the militant Jaggar von Drachenfels) are seeking a puppet through whom they can crush the mundane opposition to the magocracy, and won't tolerate a PC with a mind of their own.[/i]

3) Some region (possibly in the northeast, near Ethengar) is experiencing a rise in clerical activity. The activity is subversive and underground, and thus cannot be combatted solely by military force. A proposal is put before the council to enfoeff a barony to exert direct control and root out the heretical activity.
Complications: The clerical movement- possibly the Ten Thousand Fists of Khan- is obviously against the PCs and their anti-Immortal Glantrian ways. Perhaps the clerical influence is actually caused by shadowelf clerics of Rafiel attempting to influence the surface world.
#3
Cthulhudrew
May 19, 2004 18:07:18 Or, just thought of some other alternatives if you don't want to create a new barony:

1) The marchioness of Berrym is discovered to be a fraud. Her dominion is up for grabs, and dominion hopping abounds, leaving a barony somewhere vacant.

2) The viscountess of Redstone is revealed to be a traitor to the Council- she's a spy for Alphatia! Her lands are confiscated, she is thrown in the Tower of Sighs, and... the end result is a nice barony somewhere.

3) One of the northern barons is slain under mysterious circumstances (a vampire hunter, most likely). Now a new barony is vacant, but of course, it comes with its own drawbacks...

4) (based on your idea above) The baroness of Uigmuir, who is apparently a ghost!- is slain by adventurers. Her barony is now vacant... of course, if her long lost son should happen to show up someday, the title might be in question...

As for your question of who might go where if given the opportunity, there have been a couple of discussions in the past on the Mystara mailing list. We mostly came to a consensus, but there is lots of room for interpretation. To have a look at some different ideas, check these articles out:

http://www.dnd.starflung.com/glannob2.html
http://www.dnd.starflung.com/glannobl.html
http://www.dnd.starflung.com/glantri3.html

These mostly deal with events from the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, but they involve a lot of speculation and discussion built in, which helps to get a sense of the logic involved. There were actually more in-depth discussions on the list, which can probably be dug up in the archives if you're interested.

Anyway, hope these put you on the right track! I love Glantri.

(Speaking of which, take a look at the Glantrian Personnel Division webpage if you want some more insight into things- http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/

It's a great little page. I've contributed a little bit to it myself, though not as much as I'd like- I've actually got a couple of NPCs that I need to finish and send along to the GPD... now that I'm working on Mystara more lately, hopefully I'll post them soon!)
#4
spellweaver
May 20, 2004 7:00:36 Excellent ideas!

I have read the articles in the Vault but concluded that most of them follow the WotI, which I do not plan to use.

I have also visited the Glantrian Personnel Division many times, their stuff is great!

I like the idea of letting the PC create his own barony. Taking over someone else's dominion will be unavoidable as his title increases but a barony is really the only time he has a chance at "settling the frontier" (until he is efiefed as a prince).

Plus, it is easier to award a barony. It does not disturb the powerbalance of the princes' votes and they will all come courting him (or threatening him!! ) for his support :D

:-) Jesper
#5
Cthulhudrew
May 21, 2004 12:34:34 I just thought of some more scenarios for the creation of new baronies:

1) The Council of Princes seeks to establish closer relations with Wendar, to the north. As there are few settlements north of the central highlands, it is decided to create a new barony (or a couple) in the valleys of the Wendarian mountains. This will help facilitate relations, as well as establish "beachheads" in case things go awry.
Complications: As with any "northern" baronies, vampire troubles (and a certain vampiric prince) might be problems. Perhaps there are hidden communities of dwarves (remnants of the plague of 802) that won't like wizards moving into their territory as well. And of course, those mountains are notorious for dragons... and with the distance from any forts or camps, any PCs are pretty much on their own to contend with troubles.

2) Prince von Drachenfels proposes stretching the western boundaries of the nation further towards (or even atop!) the Adri Varma Plateau. Some baronies are created, either as a "test" of whether such a proposal would work, or simply as the first step in these expansionist plans.
Complications: Maybe there's a reason the boundaries are where they are currently, one that's been long forgotten? Perhaps there are horrors atop or underneath the plateau that are better left alone?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 spellweaver May 19, 2004 17:00:28	I am trying to figure out the Web of Intrigue in Glantrian politics and how I am going to make room for the PC wizard in my group of players. Using the Gaz. 3 for AC 1000 we see that there are not many baronies in which to begin (assuming the local baron dies or is promoted). It seems unlikely to me that Malachie would move from Morlay since all his werecreature buddies hang around in that area. He stays. The ghost of baroness McDuff needs to be dealt with if the barony of Uigmuir is to be vacant. Either some (cleric) gets rid of her or the players bring her rest by finding her lost son. But then HE is entitled to the dominion (since, according to Gaz. 10 "Orcs of Thar" he is a skilled magic-user). Baron Pieter of Oxhill and Dona Isabella of Egorn are locked in competition for an Enfiefment of Sablestone, would they move to a viscounty? Perhaps. On the other hand, if I need to move all the nobles one rank up to free a barony, I'll need to make Harald Haaskinz Prince of Sablestone. And then there is nothing left for Pieter and Isabella to fight about. Alternatively, there is Adlerturm owned by Franz Lowenroth. And, of course, there are all the baronies in alligiance to House of Igorov. And here is something which puzzles me: Gaz. 3, page 25: "Morphail plans to have these barons increase their lands and then abdicate in his favour. Boldavia will then cover the whole northeastern area of Glantri, making him the most powerful prince". How does this benefit Morphail? Even if Boldavia is elevated to Archduchy status (which it wont because of the distance to Glantri City and the Order of the Radiance, page 15) he would only gain another 5 voting points at the Council but loose 15 points in Parliament votes (5 new votes - 20 old barons' votes)?? Or can Morphail be the baron of six baronies at once? Anybody has this one figures out? Anybody has a good idea where to start my PC's career as a baron? :-) Jesper
#2 Cthulhudrew May 19, 2004 17:36:20	Why not have the PC start his own brand new barony? There is no rule against creating new baronies, and after all the baronies and counties, etc. had to come from somewhere. In fact, the discussion of politics in the Gaz pretty much state that such events do happen- all that really needs to take place is for the Council of Princes to have a need to create a barony- for instance, say the populace of a rural region petitions for more order in the area (they are plagued by humanoids, and want more direct assistance in the region, for example) or there is strife that needs a hand (the Free Fundamentalist Farmers or Followers of the Claymore in a rural area are getting particularly strong and influential, and the Princes want to break up their gig- I could see this particularly in the Sablestone region; in fact that's the primary reason that area eventually becomes a Principality). Here are some scenarios off the top of my head, and the possible complications (of which there are potentially many): 1) Gnolls are plaguing people in the northern mountainous regions, far from the capital and any nearby fort. The people cry out for help, and enlist magistrates to petition the council for the enfoeffment of a barony. The competition opens, and the PC is eligible. Complications: The gnolls are being stirred up by a Glantrian wizard who wants to run for baron himself. He is enfuriated by the PC getting involved and possibly taking away his barony. This could set up a long term rival for the PC, or possibly be an existing rival. 2) The Followers of the Claymore in the Sablestone area are working with the Free Fundamentalist Farmers (possibly even nefarious elements in the Mumlyket of Kadesh to the west!) to stir up rebellion in the region. The Princes are alarmed, and decide to enfeoff another barony in the region to help quell the problem. The PC who is selected will have to prove himself to be a staunch ally of the Council and take a firm hand against the mundaners. Complications: The other barons in the region, particularly Pieter Vandehaar, who is working with the rebels in hopes of getting a principality out of the deal, are furious at the "lessening" of their influence in politics. The FFF and FoC are furious at the PCs. The princes (particularly the militant Jaggar von Drachenfels) are seeking a puppet through whom they can crush the mundane opposition to the magocracy, and won't tolerate a PC with a mind of their own.[/i] 3) Some region (possibly in the northeast, near Ethengar) is experiencing a rise in clerical activity. The activity is subversive and underground, and thus cannot be combatted solely by military force. A proposal is put before the council to enfoeff a barony to exert direct control and root out the heretical activity. Complications: The clerical movement- possibly the Ten Thousand Fists of Khan- is obviously against the PCs and their anti-Immortal Glantrian ways. Perhaps the clerical influence is actually caused by shadowelf clerics of Rafiel attempting to influence the surface world.
#3 Cthulhudrew May 19, 2004 18:07:18	Or, just thought of some other alternatives if you don't want to create a new barony: 1) The marchioness of Berrym is discovered to be a fraud. Her dominion is up for grabs, and dominion hopping abounds, leaving a barony somewhere vacant. 2) The viscountess of Redstone is revealed to be a traitor to the Council- she's a spy for Alphatia! Her lands are confiscated, she is thrown in the Tower of Sighs, and... the end result is a nice barony somewhere. 3) One of the northern barons is slain under mysterious circumstances (a vampire hunter, most likely). Now a new barony is vacant, but of course, it comes with its own drawbacks... 4) (based on your idea above) The baroness of Uigmuir, who is apparently a ghost!- is slain by adventurers. Her barony is now vacant... of course, if her long lost son should happen to show up someday, the title might be in question... As for your question of who might go where if given the opportunity, there have been a couple of discussions in the past on the Mystara mailing list. We mostly came to a consensus, but there is lots of room for interpretation. To have a look at some different ideas, check these articles out: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/glannob2.html http://www.dnd.starflung.com/glannobl.html http://www.dnd.starflung.com/glantri3.html These mostly deal with events from the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, but they involve a lot of speculation and discussion built in, which helps to get a sense of the logic involved. There were actually more in-depth discussions on the list, which can probably be dug up in the archives if you're interested. Anyway, hope these put you on the right track! I love Glantri. (Speaking of which, take a look at the Glantrian Personnel Division webpage if you want some more insight into things- http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/ It's a great little page. I've contributed a little bit to it myself, though not as much as I'd like- I've actually got a couple of NPCs that I need to finish and send along to the GPD... now that I'm working on Mystara more lately, hopefully I'll post them soon!)
#4 spellweaver May 20, 2004 7:00:36	Excellent ideas! I have read the articles in the Vault but concluded that most of them follow the WotI, which I do not plan to use. I have also visited the Glantrian Personnel Division many times, their stuff is great! I like the idea of letting the PC create his own barony. Taking over someone else's dominion will be unavoidable as his title increases but a barony is really the only time he has a chance at "settling the frontier" (until he is efiefed as a prince). Plus, it is easier to award a barony. It does not disturb the powerbalance of the princes' votes and they will all come courting him (or threatening him!! ) for his support :D :-) Jesper
#5 Cthulhudrew May 21, 2004 12:34:34	I just thought of some more scenarios for the creation of new baronies: 1) The Council of Princes seeks to establish closer relations with Wendar, to the north. As there are few settlements north of the central highlands, it is decided to create a new barony (or a couple) in the valleys of the Wendarian mountains. This will help facilitate relations, as well as establish "beachheads" in case things go awry. Complications: As with any "northern" baronies, vampire troubles (and a certain vampiric prince) might be problems. Perhaps there are hidden communities of dwarves (remnants of the plague of 802) that won't like wizards moving into their territory as well. And of course, those mountains are notorious for dragons... and with the distance from any forts or camps, any PCs are pretty much on their own to contend with troubles. 2) Prince von Drachenfels proposes stretching the western boundaries of the nation further towards (or even atop!) the Adri Varma Plateau. Some baronies are created, either as a "test" of whether such a proposal would work, or simply as the first step in these expansionist plans. Complications: Maybe there's a reason the boundaries are where they are currently, one that's been long forgotten? Perhaps there are horrors atop or underneath the plateau that are better left alone?