OK?
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You're OK with spoilers now, right?
Fine ;)
So, anyways. I'm confused by the official timeline that you've got, as it mentions in FY11 and FY12 some actions by The Wanderer. (finding the lost halflings, etc). But at the end of the Tribe of One series, we discover that:
- The Wanderer is Sorak's father
- The Wanderer is currently back in the green (blue?) age, having traveled backwards in time
- The Wanderer is becoming an Avangion
So ... how does this gel with the official timeline? Did the Tribe of One stuff never occur? Or is The Wanderer you mention there Sorak? Or is this even more confusing, and in fact, The Wanderer is still around in this time period because he hasn't yet gone back in time to become the Avangion?
Just wondering, as I really enjoyed that series of books, and I'm fairly sure they occur around FY1/FY2. Which would imply that The Wanderer was not in this timeframe right now. But hey, temporal magic messes everything up ;)
Originally posted by dyslexia
So, anyways. I'm confused by the official timeline that you've got, as it mentions in FY11 and FY12 some actions by The Wanderer. (finding the lost halflings, etc). But at the end of the Tribe of One series, we discover that:
- The Wanderer is Sorak's father
- The Wanderer is currently back in the green (blue?) age, having traveled backwards in time
- The Wanderer is becoming an Avangion
So ... how does this gel with the official timeline? Did the Tribe of One stuff never occur? Or is The Wanderer you mention there Sorak? Or is this even more confusing, and in fact, The Wanderer is still around in this time period because he hasn't yet gone back in time to become the Avangion?
Just wondering, as I really enjoyed that series of books, and I'm fairly sure they occur around FY1/FY2. Which would imply that The Wanderer was not in this timeframe right now. But hey, temporal magic messes everything up ;)
Lies! Lies I say. Actually - you've hit on a few of the err, inconsistancies within that book series. as there are some in others. Another fun one is Kank-riding Elves. there's actually inconsistancies riddled throughout the Dark Sun material - not nearly as bad as that which was released in the Dragon and Dungeon articles, but they exist, all the same. In this instance, I'd say stick to the official timeline, and adjust what you got from the Tribe of One series to fit. but, to each their own.
We actually use the gambling game from the fist book in my campaign. Hawkes' Gambit.
That and the Crystal Spider was the PC's regular down time stomping ground.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
The Tribe of One series was actually pretty good minus its DS inconsistences.
See, this is sort of how I've always felt about it. I know that there are issues with it; it's been obvious since I first read it, and in my subsequent rereadings. Even just based off the other DS literature and the original box set, it has issues. But, I figured I'd open this can of worms and see if it's possible to work it into the timeline somehow ;)
Might be tough, though. I'll tell you one thing: fact or fiction, the series has made me hope to one day send my PCs to Bodach ;)
Originally posted by dyslexia
Hmm. Interesting. One thing, though: what was The Wanderer's real name in the Tribe of One books? I can look it up when I get home, but didn't it start with a 'k'? It wasn't ... Keltis, was it? ;) That'd make for an interesting setup, and would perhaps fix some of the other inconsistencies regarding the avangion.
No, it wasn't Keltis. I don't remember what the Tribe of One named him. Keltis is, most assuredly, not a very nice guy before he redeems himself and repents, then develops the Avangion spell/process and undergoes it. Remember - Keltis is the guy who made the Scorched Plateu, and drained ALL life from that area up to the mountain borders of the Last Sea, because of a temper tantrum - and to prove a point - he wanted to let the Mind Lords know that even with all of their power, he could still cut through their defenses. Of course, they still were able to hide the Lizard Men from him, and they then redoubled their efforts to secure that region from Defilers. Someone willing to sacrifice all of the life ut of an area more than three times the size of an area that is blocking him - is someone who is, most assuredly, not a very nice guy.
Originally from The Wanderer's Chronicle: Mind Lords of the Last Sea, page 29:
...
Keltis seemed satisfied that the lizard men were gone, but he was hardly going to take the Mind Lords' word for it. breaking their agreement [to not use defiling magic in the region of the Last Sea], he stepped back and cast a very powerful spell designed to ferret out the location of any lizard men in the entire valley. A circle of ash spread out aroiund him for a dozen yards, but when he was done, he reported that he had ascertained that the Mind Lords were telling the truth: there were no lizard men living in the valley of the Last Sea.
Satisfied that he had no more lizard men in the Mind Lords' domain, Keltis bid them farewell and left, taking his army with him back across the recently renamed Scorched Plateau.
...
This isn't the work of someone like the Wanderer. And his activity, after he began the redemption process, is recorded in other books, where he reverses the Dragon metamorphosis, invents/discovers the avangion process, and undergoes the beginnings of it. He couldn't be doing that and be the Wanderer at the same time.
Originally posted by dyslexia
See, this is sort of how I've always felt about it. I know that there are issues with it; it's been obvious since I first read it, and in my subsequent rereadings. Even just based off the other DS literature and the original box set, it has issues. But, I figured I'd open this can of worms and see if it's possible to work it into the timeline somehow ;)
Might be tough, though. I'll tell you one thing: fact or fiction, the series has made me hope to one day send my PCs to Bodach ;)
I personally use it as a legend - which a legend is based, at least partially, off of some fact. However, it's been altered by storytellers. Something that a Bard might tell about.
Actually, that's what I do with all the Dark Sun books, regarding how canonnical they are, since they were all produced in the days when the TSR Book and TSR RPG departments were given no contact. In some cases, this problem was so bad TSR put out books with no relation to a specific setting under a setting's name.
In fact, the only ones I found enjoyable and decently written out of the entire setting-specific collection were the ones by Lynn Abbey (and even those I won't use for canon because of the aforementioned inconsistencies).
Originally posted by greyorm
Those books sucked big, stinky, goat twaddle. Pitch 'em and ignore if you've had the dubious pleasure of reading them.
I do have to respectfully disagree on this one. Despite inconsistencies, the series has a lot of very interesting concepts, a good overall storyline, and does a good job of sticking to the flavor of Athas. It just messes up some historical points, sadly.
Abbey's definitely the most technically-talented of the DS writers.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
But hey. To each their own. I enjoyed the books.
-Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
Hmmmmm. I don't seem to remember Drizzt having psionic powers or multiple personalities?
But hey. To each their own. I enjoyed the books.
-Sysane, The Terror of Urik
But Drizzt was a dark, brooding, loner-hero. In that sense, I can see Dawnstealer's point. Ri-off doesn't mean "exact copy".
-Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
Yeah you never see those "dark brooding loner" types in other books. Drizzt is a truly a original concept there. ;)
-Sysane, The Terror of Urik
No arguement there. It is a rather prevailent theme. but Drizzt is one of the more popular ones lately of D&D literature.
Even still. I still think Sorak was a cool character. The "tribe of one" thing was a cool twist.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
People dissing my beloved ToO series all over the place.
It's also my firm belief that R.A. Salvatore stole the design for Drizzt from Simon Hawke and that Hawke had him in the works since the begining.
Mwuahahahaha!
Ok, too much sillyness.
Seriously, those books, weren't THAT BAD, sheesh. :P
And no, I can't remember the Wanderer's name, but it wasn't Keltis, but it did start with a K, heh.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I personally use it as a legend - which a legend is based, at least partially, off of some fact. However, it's been altered by storytellers. Something that a Bard might tell about.
I plan to base alot of went on with what his name sword in the series to be based in writeup for said sword, that and whatever was found in Elves of Athas on it. Basically combine the two as much as I can and rule out any inconsistencies.
but why would the gaming department allow simon to release the identity of the wanderer... if it wasn't correct... wasn't the tribe of one series written long before abbeys breakdown with the rules dept.
btw... is it kether (soraks father aka the wanderer)
hey, if yall don't like that explanation then try accepting that there is no one true wanderer... it was a concept that was opened to the writers so that they would all feel free to wrote as they pleased...
but..
in doing so they lost continuity, just like WC states about the wanderer, NOBODY truly knows who the wanderer is...
Originally posted by kefka
hey, if yall don't like that explanation then try accepting that there is no one true wanderer... it was a concept that was opened to the writers so that they would all feel free to wrote as they pleased...
but..
in doing so they lost continuity, just like WC states about the wanderer, NOBODY truly knows who the wanderer is...
Exactly.
I think "The Wanderer" is just an organizaton of wandering people trying to learn more about the history of Athas and such and less just one guy running around and doing it.
and sorak had a cat... cheap knock off
Okay. So both Drizzt and Sorak are rip offs of the Beast Master
with that reasoning.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
Okay. So both Drizzt and Sorak are rip offs of the Beast Master
with that reasoning.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
That movie ruled btw.
Second one blew, and the third somewhat made up for the second one.
Oh:
Seriously, those books, weren't THAT BAD, sheesh.
I'm kicking you in the junk. You must know this.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
They made a third one?
Yup.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6303890385/qid=1085086728/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-2338080-0170262?v=glance&s=video
Oh:
I'm kicking you in the junk. You must know this.
Cool! Love it when you kick me in the junk. Throw some poo at me too while you are at it.
Originally posted by kefka
but why would the gaming department allow simon to release the identity of the wanderer... if it wasn't correct... wasn't the tribe of one series written long before abbeys breakdown with the rules dept.
Actually, the breakdown in TSR started shortly after the initial release of Dark Sun, by judging the quality of ewhat was released. two of the adventures mesh with the Prism Pentad novels, then they diverge wildly. Even the gaming materials diverge from each other, and novels don't mesh correctly. TSR's downfall wasn't overnight, but took years for them to achieve such a total, and complete, abyssmal failure.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Seriously, those books, weren't THAT BAD
If by that you mean a beginning creative writing/literature student hiring a monkey to pound at a typewriter couldn't have done better, sure, I agree!
More seriously, while there are interesting and colorful bits scattered throughout the books, as a body of work taken in total, it isn't that good. If I were grading it, I'd give it a "C" overall.
Let's keep this going!
While Sorak bears some similarities to Di'ldo Do'Urine, I'd have to say I enjoyed Sorak much more than those ridiculous Drizzt books.
They both had a cat, fine, but Sorak's was cooler looking and could actually be killed, AND he had to take it everywhere, he couldn't just dismiss it back into a silly little statue.
They both used swords, but Sorak only had the one sword, which eventually was destroyed. Drizzt, still has those two boring old scimitars for almost EVERY novel. Seriously, has every villain forgotten about the "sunder" attack?
And Drizzt is seemingly invincible, while Sorak has occasionally gotten the snot beat out of him, not to mention losing all his psionic abilities along with his multiple personalities.
In my eyes, these few things make Sorak a much more interesting character, and much more believable than Drizzt will ever be.
Sorak stalked into the room and said, "Hello."
Susan looked at him, her straw-colored hair shimmering in the hot sun. "Hello," she said.
"How are you?" Sorak said.
"I am fine." Susan said.
"I want some cake." Sorak said.
"Then I will get you some," Susan said. Susan stood up and walked to the window in the hot room, which was hot, and opened it. Outside, Bob the elf sat waiting on his kank, which winnied in anticipation...
Urp! :OMG!
Tome 1
"Me sorak, me flee to save my butt"
"big peoples trying to kill sorak."
"So, sorak flee"
Tome 2
Could put tome 1, 2 and 3 but since I had nothing to write... hehe
How to write a Simon Hawke book: Use your computer, do a cut & paste of the monsters manuals and paste it in your book.
Tome 3
"Me sorak, be tired of fleeing big peoples trying to kill sorak"
"Me blow all these big guys."
"They be all dead"
"Geez, why was I fleeing in the first place?"
"Sorak be more powerful than all these mighty foes."
"Sorak could have blown them in the Tome 1".
Sorak grumble...
Back on the topic and off the Hawke bashing, a few more questions for NytCrawlr, then: what is the "official" status of the 1 surviving avangion as of the current timeline? ie. where is Oronis currently, and what is he up to?
Also, in what book/supplement is the stuff listed in FY4 (the Psionatrix, etc) documented? I have owned the original Dark Sun boxed set for many years, from right about when it first came out, and I've read most of the official literature (yes, I know, issues ;)), and I just don't recall that. The campaign I'm running right now is actually almost into FY2, because I wanted to be able to have the characters have some affect over the world, and I'm personally much more familiar with the original timeline. (Urik's march on Tyr is coming soon ;))
So, I'm trying to have a better understanding of the stuff in FY4 for the future, as I don't recall ever reading about it.
Lastly, though I do recall reading about most of the events surrounding Rikus, Sadira, Tithian, Agis, etc, and the creation of the Cerulean Storm along with the release of the First Sorceror from the Hollow, I am honestly a bit rusty on it. Which book series/supplement was that in?
Thanks for the info
I am a long time fan of the campaign setting, but it lay unused for many years between when I stopped playing 2E and picked up 3E, so I'm trying to regain a lot of lost historical perspective."Me blow all these big guys."
That's the french's solution for everything...
:D
Originally posted by dyslexia
Also, in what book/supplement is the stuff listed in FY4 (the Psionatrix, etc) documented?
The Dragon's Crown adventure has all the details on the Psionatrix and the Order, who created it. The heroes of Tyr begin searching for the Dark Lens in FY4 as well. Also, this year, and the 4 following it, Tithian pays the dragon's levy in secret, with slaves he captures in raids on nearby villages.
Originally posted by dyslexia
Lastly, though I do recall reading about most of the events surrounding Rikus, Sadira, Tithian, Agis, etc, and the creation of the Cerulean Storm along with the release of the First Sorceror from the Hollow, I am honestly a bit rusty on it. Which book series/supplement was that in?
Best to look in the Final Book of the Prism Pentad, The Cerulean Storm for this stuff. Its the best fluff you'll find on the subject, as for crunchy bits, not much is out there really unless you buy the City of Dust and Fire accessory which details Ur Draxa extremely well.
Originally posted by dyslexia
I think you're too hard on Hawke.
So you're saying that my claim that the best use to which his books can be put is as fuel for the woodstove is going overboard?
Seriously, though, the characterization and motivations are awful -- for example, I recall the scene where he just "gives up" his preserver/druid vows and eats meat. That was one of the worst, most unrealistic bits of writing I've ever read...
"I, Sorak, cannot eat meat! I have vowed not to. No matter what!" {repeat for three books}
Suddenly, "I, Sorak, will eat this meat! My vows be damned!"
"I, Sorak, feel no remorse for breaking my vows. I don't even think about it again."
You could see how hard he was trying to do this whole "internal struggle" idea...and fell flat on his face. Same thing in a book Hawke wrote for the Birthright setting: "Oh, I am an evil, cruel wizard. Oh, look, a manipulative woman I know is manipulative, and I am uninterested in her welfare because I am evil. I am now being stupid and care for her pain because she is a woman, even though I am evil and do not care about her welfare."
Yes, interesting ideas...implementation thereof...worse than just bad: failure. The writing weakened and removed immersion in the story because these events were obvious devices, and unnatural, badly forced changes in the personalities.
To top that off, the flow and measure of the writing is not very engaging. From a technical standpoint, it's average -- like I said, I'd grade it a "C", meaning I've read worse, but it could be much better.
That said, there were things I liked in the books: Bodach was interesting, the whole "D&D" dice-game in the village was interesting, the multiple personalities were interesting.
But ultimately, here's the thing, since people rush to defend it with this fact alone: a story might be "interesting," there might be good ideas in there, but every story has that. "Interesting ideas" are a dime a dozen; actually being able to successfully implement those ideas is another matter.
When you judge a work by more than whether or not the seed idea was interesting, Hawke's writing just doesn't meet the bar.
Keep in mind, I'm not even judging the numerous setting-consistency problems, because that's a whole seperate issue from the the writing itself, and far more forgivable, especially given the history of the publishing company at the time the novels came out.
Alright, so what elements have people borrowed from the ToO novels for their own games? Descriptions? Places? Characters? Creatures? Events?
Personally, I've always wanted to run the gambling game. Set up a cardboard box on the street and play a bet-based D&D variant that moves quickly and is set-up like in the books, with obvious places for choices and simple mechanics for the betters.
We're talking complete Gamism here: the goal is to beat the gamemaster and win the treasure of Bodach (or whatever) and escape with it, which, of course, would be like "the house pot" -- the big money win.
Alright, so what elements have people borrowed from the ToO novels for their own games? Descriptions? Places? Characters? Creatures? Events?
I've used the die game Hawke's Gambit a bunch of time in my sessions when the party went to the Cyrstal Spider. I've also used Cyrsta(sp?) regularly and Valsalvas(sp?) once.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Alright, so what elements have people borrowed from the ToO novels for their own games? Descriptions? Places? Characters? Creatures? Events?
I've used the die game Hawke's Gambit a bunch of time in my sessions when the party goes to the Cyrstal Spider. I've also used Cyrsta(sp?) regularly and Valsalvas(sp?) once.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by greyorm
So you're saying that my claim that the best use to which his books can be put is as fuel for the woodstove is going overboard?
Seriously, though, the characterization and motivations are awful -- for example, I recall the scene where he just "gives up" his preserver/druid vows and eats meat. That was one of the worst, most unrealistic bits of writing I've ever read...
"I, Sorak, cannot eat meat! I have vowed not to. No matter what!" {repeat for three books}
Suddenly, "I, Sorak, will eat this meat! My vows be damned!"
"I, Sorak, feel no remorse for breaking my vows. I don't even think about it again."
This is about the worst example possible. Were you so busy being angry at Hawke that you missed the part where Sorak has multiple personalities, and not all of them took druidic/preserver oaths?. Unless I'm entirely misremembering, every time he eats meat it is the doing of one of his other personalities, which he really doesn't have control over. It'd be like if you shared a car with someone, and vowed to never go over 60mph. If the person you share it with goes and drives 100mph when you're not around, does that mean you've broken your vow? Sorak shares a body with many other distinct personalities, and so sometimes things are done with that body that he would not agree with.
I've never read anything from the Birthright setting, but I still think you're too hard on him. The books are not bad, IMHO. I think you've just got an issue with Hawke in general, because the level to which you believe them to be bad is incredible.
Originally posted by dyslexia
The books are not bad, IMHO. I think you've just got an issue with Hawke in general, because the level to which you believe them to be bad is incredible.
Eh, I think Raven is just a very advanced reader, therefore critical of anyone who isn't above a C.
While I on the other hand am just easily entertained. :D
Originally posted by dyslexia
Unless I'm entirely misremembering, every time he eats meat it is the doing of one of his other personalities
I am afraid you are misremembering. If I still knew where my copies were at the moment, I could dig them out and quote the passage to you; but the scene is clear in my mind, it is Sorak who does so, and hence why I had a problem with it when I first read the passage -- because it was so out of character for him.
It wouldn't have bothered me at all if it had been one of the other personalities, because it was clearly established that some of them ate meat, while Sorak did not. I recall scenes where the internal dialogue covered Sorak's opinions on the matter: that since he wasn't in control, it wasn't him eating the meat, and so forth -- so a lecture on the logic of the situation is irrelevant.
It also wouldn't have bothered me if it had been handled better. But it was, as I said, very poorly written. There was no lead up, there was no foreshadowing, nor focus on how the harshness of life on Athas kept forcing it upon him, but until then he had resisted -- it was just "BAM!" and he did it, and then nothing -- no regret, remorse, no reference to it again. The situation was very poorly handled, coming out stilted and forced.
Now, the reason Sorak did so was because he needed the energy to save one of his companions, the pyreen woman, as I recall. While the idea is good, and such personal inner struggles are a staple of literary conflicts, it was handled very poorly in this specific case, feeling very much "tacked on for effect," hence my problem with it.
I write and edit, inside the RPG field and out, and I have been schooled and trained in judging written materials based on their quality, so that's what I do when I read -- I enjoy a written work from the standpoint of both a reader of the story and as an explorer of the technical skill and craft of the writer in telling that story. Comparatively, in my experience, Hawke just isn't up to par with many other writers in his presentation.
Quite simply, I found his writing uncompelling, rough, and poorly characterized. Like all writers, it was better in some spots than others, but overall, it was consistently unremarkable.
However, I didn't say he sucked kank's eggs, did I? I graded his work a "C," a far cry from the "incredibly bad" label you appear to believe I have described him with. So, please do not put words in my mouth, or exaggerate what I have said.
This is about the worst example possible. Were you so busy being angry at Hawke that you missed the part where Sorak has multiple personalities, and not all of them took druidic/preserver oaths?
...
I've never read anything from the Birthright setting, but I still think you're too hard on him. The books are not bad, IMHO. I think you've just got an issue with Hawke in general, because the level to which you believe them to be bad is incredible.
When you turn the conversation from discussion and criticism of a work, to psychoanalyzing and examining me as a person, I (rightly) will become a tad touchy. Thus, please forgive any tone in the following.
I haven't gotten personal -- made judgements about your mindset and motivations -- regarding your enjoyment of Mr. Hawke's work, so I do not appreciate your use of ad hominem in refutation of my points, such as your explanation that I'm "angry at Hawke" (for some inexplicable reason).
Please, be serious.
Creating the defense "how I must be saying that because" might make you feel better, but that won't make it the truth. My comments about Hawke's work aren't some vicious hatred or fervor, just honest, critical evaluation.
If you can show me how Hawke's work is technically brilliant, or that his story-telling skills are at least better than average, I will happily revise my opinion. But distracting the subject by examining my character or supposing my motivations instead of dealing with the subject, of the crafting of the work, will get us nowhere.
So, please, I'm willing to discuss his work, but let's leave me (and you) out of it; though, I don't have much else to add regarding the subject than what I've already said.
Originally posted by greyorm
Creating the defense "how I must be saying that because" might make you feel better, but that won't make it the truth. My comments about Hawke's work aren't some vicious hatred or fervor, just honest, critical evaluation.
Look, I'm not trying to start slinging mud. But, I don't think I'm exaggerating your criticism. If you don't like the books, whatever. Personally, I think he's a decent writer, and while not masterpieces, the series stands fairly well on merits of good storyline and interesting characters. But I can entirely understand not liking them.
However, I still think you take this too far. Some choice quotes:
Those books sucked big, stinky, goat twaddle. Pitch 'em and ignore if you've had the dubious pleasure of reading them.
If by that you mean a beginning creative writing/literature student hiring a monkey to pound at a typewriter couldn't have done better, sure, I agree!
I will repeat: I'm not in any way saying your disliking them is not understandable. I'm saying, we get that you dislike them, and you're going really overboard. A simple "didn't like them, here's why:" would've been fine. The repeated hyperbole is really more than is necessary.
The stinky goat-twaddle thing, though...nah, I meant that. Sorry. That's just my lit. snob coming out.
Originally posted by greyorm
I am afraid you are misremembering. If I still knew where my copies were at the moment, I could dig them out and quote the passage to you; but the scene is clear in my mind, it is Sorak who does so, and hence why I had a problem with it when I first read the passage -- because it was so out of character for him.
Yep, you're right, talk about falling on your face.
Tribe of One, Book Three: The Nomad pg. 64
"Despite himself, Sorak started salivating at the sight of the meat. He knew the tribe had fed earlier, but he did not know how long he had been unconscious, and the wound had made him weak. Druid vows be damned, he thought to himself as he accepted the meat from the stranger. Ryanna needs me, and I need my strength to heal. "Thank you", he said to the big stranger."
Soon after he casts a "druid" spell, or at least the guardian does, before that once they left the salt plain he casts another "druid" spell, but they don't mention the guardian doing it this time.
Sometime around towards the end of the 2nd book or the begining of the 3rd book, another mention of casting druid spells is mentioned, even though none are cast. Not only that but the spell cast after the meat eating incident was a healing spell.
What a huge inconsistency, since before in the previous books Sorak had gotten hurt a few times here and there, and nothing was ever mentioned of him, or Ryanna for that matter, of being able to cast healing spells, let alone druid spells to call up water or to heal.
Can't believe I missed all that the last time I read these books, course that was several years ago (at least 6 or so) and my tastes for novels has grown a little since then, as well as my reading comprehension.
Oh well, still entertaining reads, even if they are more on a lower reading level.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
What a huge inconsistency, since before in the previous books Sorak had gotten hurt a few times here and there, and nothing was ever mentioned of him, or Ryanna for that matter, of being able to cast healing spells, let alone druid spells to call up water or to heal.
Yeah, that's another thing I noticed...I mean, weren't there a number of times in the first two novels where he was crossing the deserts/lost in the deserts/something and worried about running out of water?
And I know when I was reading even the first novel, I thought, "Ok, in Hawke's version of Athas, you can be a preserver and a druid and not cast magical spells -- it's just a commitment to a way of life you make. I can live with that."
Then suddenly in novel three, "Ooo, I have magical powers I didn't notice until just now, but apparently thought I had all this time because I'm not surprised that I now have them! I'll just cast a spell and make some water now...la-di-dah...don't know why I never thought of this before! Duuhhh-uh!"
Talk about inconsistency.
I don't know...maybe he just had all the wrong spells prepared every other day?
Originally posted by greyorm
Talk about inconsistency.
I don't know...maybe he just had all the wrong spells prepared every other day?
Soraks Father: ogar, 7th son of chiefs 7th wife. (Halfling)
3rd book page274
Now from what I just read, I beleive that one of soraks personalities... The gaurdian I think is the wife of the wanderer...
kether elven tribe leader...
Ogar died by the halflings hand,
Halflings sent faceless one to destroy elves
Sage was father to soraks mother, the elf that left when she was young... (I thought the wanderer was human)
The gaurdian was his mother (soraks)
Ok so that was it the sages name was never mintioned, but Kether was the tribe leader, I think that was the name ya'll were looking for but unfortunatly not correct..... ok to answer the guys original question, A wise man would work in anytime that pleased him with minimul interfearence.
Although Simon's character interaction is not up to Edding's level for amusement, he has more than one plot.
And he loves his "Hawkes Gambit" both books of his that I've read include it as a major point in moving the plot along.
But must admit like greyorm I am a little bit of lit-snob when it comes to novels.
Hey Greyorm, you read any Banks or Egan?