Looking For Some Background Info... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Looking For Some Background Info...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
May 21, 2004 9:48:15 Hiyoooo. Although I've never played in a Planescapes adventure, I've borrowed a few of the 2nd ed. Planescapes books from a friend to gain some knowledge on the multiverse. I've only begun role-playing since 3rd ed. D&D came out, and I also run some games as a DM. My current game has a group of 18th level characters, and they've been a bit itchy to take a trip around the Great Wheel. I own the Manual of the Planes, but I seek more knowledge on the outer planes - specifically, I'm interested in reading about how the Nine Hells of Baator came to be.

I've been directed towards the ol' Planescapes books by people on some of the other forums. However, the books I do have don't do justice for quenching my thirst for this knowledge. I was wondering if anyone here knows where I could find info on the following:
- how each of the Lords of the Nine came to power
- any detailed info on the Reckoning
- any info on the Dark Eight

If anyone cares to explain any of this to me, or point me in the direction where I'd find this info, I'd be greatly appreciative. ^^;
#2
Shemeska_the_Marauder
May 21, 2004 10:48:42 The most detailed info on each of the Dark 8: "Hellbound: The Blood War' box set. Definative info.

Info on the Reckoning: "First mentioned in 'A Paladin in Hell', not Planescape material but good. The next book, was another non-Planescape 2e book called 'Guide to Hell' that attempted to reconcile the plots and information of Planescape with the details of The Reckoning in 'Paladin in Hell'. It did that fairly nicely, however it is loathed by a large number of people for the crank theories it shoved down peoples throats regarding Asmodeus. Ignore that section and it's a good book.

Info on the Lot9: Scattered all over the place in PS, most notably: 'Hellbound:The Blood War', 'Faces of Evil:The Fiends' (best fiendish ecology book ever), 'Planes of Law'.

For the origin of Baator, and more specifically the Baatezu I point to the 'Hellbound' box and 'Faces of Evil' for the legends of the Baernaloths, their creation of the Yugoloths, and the subsequent creation of both the first Tanar'ri and Baatezu from the law and chaos purged from those first Yugoloths.

Also in 'Hellbound' and 'Tales from the Infinite Staircase' there's details on a race known as the Ancient Baatorians that are the original natives of Baator (the Baatezu 'aint native...) who were conquered and displaced by the original Baatezu. A few still linger on the plane in out of the way places (and are mentioned in the 3e MotP), and still will spawn naturally from the essence of Baator if you allow a Nupperibo to mature (a form of 'advanced' lemure essentially)
#3
gray_richardson
May 22, 2004 13:18:55 You got me to thinking... If Mechanus had purged itself of it's non-neutral Modrons or Inevitables, the ancient Baatorians might have been displaced by some sort of Lawful Evil constructs. The image that springs to mind is the Terminator, or Fred Saberhagans Berserkers. Hell might have ended up looking a lot like the machine world of the Matrix.

Just think, a whole plane devoted to the rigidly lawful perpetration of evilness; organized, regimented, calculating, focused and posessed of vast numbers of inhabitants that respect authority and follow orders. A plane with a grand evil vision and the wherewithall to execute their plans.

Now that would be a scary version of Baator indeed!

I have long been suspect of the idea of the ancient Baatorians. I associate tentacles with Chaos, and find what little information about them that has been presented to be incongruous with what one would expect would be the naturally evolving exemplars of the plane of Lawful Evil.

But maybe the ancient Baatorians were able to be supplanted by the Baatezu precisely because they were not very true expressions of the archetypes of Law and Evil. Maybe the Ancient Baatorians were offspring of a Baator that used to occupy a very different place in the Great Wheel. Maybe Baator was once occupied the Neutral Evil slot and was shifted clockwise when philosphies and belief changed up the lower planar realestate.

It could be that back in the very begining Baator was the sole evil plane, or was part of a united lower plane before the concepts of Order and Chaos came about at a later date thereby shifting or balkanizing Baator off over to the lawful evil corner of the wheel.

This is just wild speculation, but explains perhaps why the Baatorians are no more; they might have been too chaotic or just not a good fit for Baator's newfound position in the cosmology.
#4
sildatorak
May 23, 2004 23:01:50
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Maybe Baator was once occupied the Neutral Evil slot and was shifted clockwise when philosphies and belief changed up the lower planar realestate.

Is the pun intended or unintended? It is a fricking awesome one!
#5
zombiegleemax
May 24, 2004 1:40:08 Gray:

Tentacles = chaos?!? My friend I direct you to re-examine the mindflayers (best from a safe distance).

Nothing wrong with adding an out of the way section of Baator as a "machine hell". Wouldn't even need to be a whole plane. Just a realm. Maybe put it on the second layer. The Iron City of Dis might be "reclaimed" (along with Talos the Triple Iron Golem) and Dispater tasked with keeping an eye on that realm from afar within his tower in the name of Baatezu "national" interest.

-Eric Gorman
#6
gray_richardson
May 24, 2004 22:33:11 Point taken Eric, Mindflayers are lawful evil.

However, I still associate tentacles with chaos or even more appropriately the Far Realms and all the works of Lovecraft. I think it is safe to say that the mindflayers were inspired in part by Lovecraft. Furthermore the illithids don't tend to make their way to Baator in the afterlife. But maybe they're the exception that proves the rule.

Anyway, you had some great ideas for incorporating mechanistic fiends into the Hells. The Iron City of Dis is a tailor-made location to headquarter them. I may use that in my campaign.

There are precedents for fiendish constructs. The Retriever comes to mind. Hellfire Golems, etc.

There are certainly fallen angels, and Slaad (hard to tell if they have fallen or not, some of them act pretty fiendish!) I wonder if there are many fallen Modrons or Inevitables? There could be some good stories there...

I could see an offshoot colony of the Modrons taking up residence in Acheron, and evolving to suit the plane--developing tyranistic or machiavelian traits (or even just getting plain corrupted by evil). I could see them trying to spread the law (or their version of it) to the Hells by invasion and once there deciding it suits them, setting up a fortified bastion and spreading out over time.

I wonder if they would capture other fiends and attach devices to subsume their will and turn them into drones? Or chop them up and use the parts in bizarre new combinations for more nefarious constructs? Now that could be a Hell that even the devils might fear!

Thanks Eric, you've got me thinking!
#7
sildatorak
May 25, 2004 22:45:40
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I wonder if they would capture other fiends and attach devices to subsume their will and turn them into drones? Or chop them up and use the parts in bizarre new combinations for more nefarious constructs? Now that could be a Hell that even the devils might fear!

Reminds me of the Phyrexian Broodlings and all other things Phyrexian. You could easily incorporate any of the other ideas about Phyrexia from MtG into a mechanical layer of Baator.
#8
gray_richardson
May 26, 2004 1:18:27 Creepy little critters those broodlings! They remind me somewhat of "Adam" the patchwork demon from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Or those creepy toys from Toy Story.

Man, if those Phyrexians were to take up residence in Baator the property values would sure drop! People might just start thinking Hell was not such a nice place to live...

Seriously, Sild, that's a great link and a great idea for more hellish constructs with which to populate the lower planes.

All these great suggestions makes me think that there really is a story there to be explored. The Rule of Threes may even require it. Three races vying for control of Baator. That is you have the aboriginal Baatorians native to the plane losing control to the invading Law-Tainted Spawn of the True Evil Yugoloths. It only makes sense, nay it must follow from the Rule of Threes that the Devils should in turn clash with a counterbalancing force of Evil-tainted outcasts/pioneers/invaders from the plane of True Law.

Heck, it's an age old tale; it's the story of Texas writ large on the planes! Conquistadors from Spain conquer Mexico and the American Southwest, displacing the Aztecs and other Native American peoples. Pioneers from the Northern United States in turn settle in Spanish-held lands and after reaching a critical mass declare themselves a sovreign Republic. War with Spain ensued over land that didn't really belong to either of them to begin with. Such grand happenings would lend themselves well to a Planescape campaign.

How might this story go? One of the Nine maybe captures some inevitables, corrupts them or reverse-engineers evil copies of them for use as shock troops or for other mysterious purposes. He builds an army of them. They rebel and take control of a portion of one of the rings. Maybe the Iron City of Dis or maybe a more secluded, out-of-the-way corner of Hell.

Or pilgrim Formians might infest a region of Baator, subtly and unbeknownst to the Baatezu, in the same way that termites get into the woodwork of your home, or cockroaches infest the darkplaces in the cracks and floorboards where no one can see. These new evil Formians form hives everywhere until the Baatezu realize far too late that they have a bug problem.

Or Modrons might just march full bore into Hell with the idea of expanding their Law into Baator. Having fought their way across Acheron they find themselves changed over time, no longer exemplars of True order, their time down below has corrupted them. They come to like the Hells and decide to stay, creating a powerbase and from there expand to take over the rest of Baator.

Surely the Devils would mobilize and an Alamo-esque battle would ensue. Due to their similar lawful natures, the fighting might be very formal and prescribed, with complex treaties and codes of chivalry and set times and places for battles and skirmishes.

You could easily drop characters in the midst of such a conflict and the plot could drive a campaign for weeks or years. Such great ideas to develop into a campaign!
#9
zombiegleemax
Jun 15, 2004 20:55:29
Originally posted by HvF
The Iron City of Dis might be "reclaimed" (along with Talos the Triple Iron Golem) and Dispater tasked with keeping an eye on that realm from afar within his tower in the name of Baatezu "national" interest.

-Eric Gorman

That's another curiosity of mine. Just what is Talos' purpose for existing? Where'd it come from? What does it do? Why's it called the "Triple Iron Golem?" Who/what created it? And how did Dispater ever get it under his control?!?!? The only other tid-bit that I think I remember reading about Talos is that having it eat certain artifacts is a method of destroying said artifacts, which I believe was mentioned in the DMG (I might be wrong, though). I've no clue what the significance of Talos is. Would you happen to have any idea?
#10
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jun 15, 2004 21:27:50 I've never seen any other reference to Talos the Triple Iron Golem outside of that plot idea for destroying an artifact in the DMG...

If there is, please illuminate me. This 'loth craves information like a drug addiction or a fetish.
#11
psionicpally_dup
Jun 15, 2004 21:52:54 Talos, the Triple Iron Golem, was mentioned most recently in The Book of Vile Darkness (Great source book, by the way, if you like to have truely evil characters in your campaign). It was stated that he is currently serving Dispater in Dis. He was also given stats (Which, I believe, was the first time that statistics have been to Talos by a WOTC source).

I haven't seen too much information beyond this and the Dungeon Master's Guide blurb, and I doubt that any exists. If memory serves me, he originated from Greco-Roman mythology.
#12
gray_richardson
Jun 15, 2004 23:01:56 I only know of Talos from the movie the Seventh Voyage of Sinbad. He was a giant bronze golem that guarded the treasure of the gods. Sinbad killed him by unscrewing a cap on his heel that let all his vital fluids out.

A quick google search indicates that in Greek mythology Talos was some kind of bronze man created by Hephaestos to guard the shores of Crete.
#13
sildatorak
Jun 15, 2004 23:29:43
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I only know of Talos from the movie the Seventh Voyage of Sinbad.

That's sounds like Jason and the Argonauts, actually.
#14
gray_richardson
Jun 16, 2004 2:53:07 So it was! Sorry, I love those old Harryhausen films. The details sometimes blend together a little in my memory.

But Talos was pretty cool wasn't he? I can't help but think the D&D writers must have seen the movie and that he could have been the inspiration for the D&D Talos.
#15
ohtar_turinson
Jun 16, 2004 6:28:18 I think Talos was the statue that guarded Crete at the time of Daedelus, who made sailing away impossible. It'd throw giant stones at the ships it didn't recognize with great accuracy and sink them quickly. That was why Daedelus had to create wings rather than invent a way to get out of the tower he was imprisoned in and then a boat.

As in all myths, I'm sure there are a thousand versions of this story. But I'm also fairly sure the movie is totally different all over again- what would the Argonauts be doing near Crete?
#16
zombiegleemax
Jun 16, 2004 8:10:47
Originally posted by Sildatorak
That's sounds like Jason and the Argonauts, actually.

Is that the high-seas sequel to "Love, Actually"?

Martine McCutcheon and Hugh Grant go on a rip-roaring adventure of daring do?
#17
ripvanwormer
Jun 19, 2004 3:20:58
Originally posted by Blurpy the RABID!!!!
I was wondering if anyone here knows where I could find info on the following:
- how each of the Lords of the Nine came to power
- any detailed info on the Reckoning
- any info on the Dark Eight

I put some profiles of the Eight at this url: http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/darkeight.html

And profiles on the Lords of the Nine here: http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/devilkind.html
#18
gray_richardson
Jun 19, 2004 10:40:43 As always Rip, the more I read your stuff, the more enamored I become of your writing. You write very cool pieces Rip!

I hope Hiro did not did not suffer a similar fate to his father!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax May 21, 2004 9:48:15	Hiyoooo. Although I've never played in a Planescapes adventure, I've borrowed a few of the 2nd ed. Planescapes books from a friend to gain some knowledge on the multiverse. I've only begun role-playing since 3rd ed. D&D came out, and I also run some games as a DM. My current game has a group of 18th level characters, and they've been a bit itchy to take a trip around the Great Wheel. I own the Manual of the Planes, but I seek more knowledge on the outer planes - specifically, I'm interested in reading about how the Nine Hells of Baator came to be. I've been directed towards the ol' Planescapes books by people on some of the other forums. However, the books I do have don't do justice for quenching my thirst for this knowledge. I was wondering if anyone here knows where I could find info on the following: - how each of the Lords of the Nine came to power - any detailed info on the Reckoning - any info on the Dark Eight If anyone cares to explain any of this to me, or point me in the direction where I'd find this info, I'd be greatly appreciative. ^^;
#2 Shemeska_the_Marauder May 21, 2004 10:48:42	The most detailed info on each of the Dark 8: "Hellbound: The Blood War' box set. Definative info. Info on the Reckoning: "First mentioned in 'A Paladin in Hell', not Planescape material but good. The next book, was another non-Planescape 2e book called 'Guide to Hell' that attempted to reconcile the plots and information of Planescape with the details of The Reckoning in 'Paladin in Hell'. It did that fairly nicely, however it is loathed by a large number of people for the crank theories it shoved down peoples throats regarding Asmodeus. Ignore that section and it's a good book. Info on the Lot9: Scattered all over the place in PS, most notably: 'Hellbound:The Blood War', 'Faces of Evil:The Fiends' (best fiendish ecology book ever), 'Planes of Law'. For the origin of Baator, and more specifically the Baatezu I point to the 'Hellbound' box and 'Faces of Evil' for the legends of the Baernaloths, their creation of the Yugoloths, and the subsequent creation of both the first Tanar'ri and Baatezu from the law and chaos purged from those first Yugoloths. Also in 'Hellbound' and 'Tales from the Infinite Staircase' there's details on a race known as the Ancient Baatorians that are the original natives of Baator (the Baatezu 'aint native...) who were conquered and displaced by the original Baatezu. A few still linger on the plane in out of the way places (and are mentioned in the 3e MotP), and still will spawn naturally from the essence of Baator if you allow a Nupperibo to mature (a form of 'advanced' lemure essentially)
#3 gray_richardson May 22, 2004 13:18:55	You got me to thinking... If Mechanus had purged itself of it's non-neutral Modrons or Inevitables, the ancient Baatorians might have been displaced by some sort of Lawful Evil constructs. The image that springs to mind is the Terminator, or Fred Saberhagans Berserkers. Hell might have ended up looking a lot like the machine world of the Matrix. Just think, a whole plane devoted to the rigidly lawful perpetration of evilness; organized, regimented, calculating, focused and posessed of vast numbers of inhabitants that respect authority and follow orders. A plane with a grand evil vision and the wherewithall to execute their plans. Now that would be a scary version of Baator indeed! I have long been suspect of the idea of the ancient Baatorians. I associate tentacles with Chaos, and find what little information about them that has been presented to be incongruous with what one would expect would be the naturally evolving exemplars of the plane of Lawful Evil. But maybe the ancient Baatorians were able to be supplanted by the Baatezu precisely because they were not very true expressions of the archetypes of Law and Evil. Maybe the Ancient Baatorians were offspring of a Baator that used to occupy a very different place in the Great Wheel. Maybe Baator was once occupied the Neutral Evil slot and was shifted clockwise when philosphies and belief changed up the lower planar realestate. It could be that back in the very begining Baator was the sole evil plane, or was part of a united lower plane before the concepts of Order and Chaos came about at a later date thereby shifting or balkanizing Baator off over to the lawful evil corner of the wheel. This is just wild speculation, but explains perhaps why the Baatorians are no more; they might have been too chaotic or just not a good fit for Baator's newfound position in the cosmology.
#4 sildatorak May 23, 2004 23:01:50	Originally posted by Gray Richardson Maybe Baator was once occupied the Neutral Evil slot and was shifted clockwise when philosphies and belief changed up the lower planar realestate. Is the pun intended or unintended? It is a fricking awesome one!
#5 zombiegleemax May 24, 2004 1:40:08	Gray: Tentacles = chaos?!? My friend I direct you to re-examine the mindflayers (best from a safe distance). Nothing wrong with adding an out of the way section of Baator as a "machine hell". Wouldn't even need to be a whole plane. Just a realm. Maybe put it on the second layer. The Iron City of Dis might be "reclaimed" (along with Talos the Triple Iron Golem) and Dispater tasked with keeping an eye on that realm from afar within his tower in the name of Baatezu "national" interest. -Eric Gorman
#6 gray_richardson May 24, 2004 22:33:11	Point taken Eric, Mindflayers are lawful evil. However, I still associate tentacles with chaos or even more appropriately the Far Realms and all the works of Lovecraft. I think it is safe to say that the mindflayers were inspired in part by Lovecraft. Furthermore the illithids don't tend to make their way to Baator in the afterlife. But maybe they're the exception that proves the rule. Anyway, you had some great ideas for incorporating mechanistic fiends into the Hells. The Iron City of Dis is a tailor-made location to headquarter them. I may use that in my campaign. There are precedents for fiendish constructs. The Retriever comes to mind. Hellfire Golems, etc. There are certainly fallen angels, and Slaad (hard to tell if they have fallen or not, some of them act pretty fiendish!) I wonder if there are many fallen Modrons or Inevitables? There could be some good stories there... I could see an offshoot colony of the Modrons taking up residence in Acheron, and evolving to suit the plane--developing tyranistic or machiavelian traits (or even just getting plain corrupted by evil). I could see them trying to spread the law (or their version of it) to the Hells by invasion and once there deciding it suits them, setting up a fortified bastion and spreading out over time. I wonder if they would capture other fiends and attach devices to subsume their will and turn them into drones? Or chop them up and use the parts in bizarre new combinations for more nefarious constructs? Now that could be a Hell that even the devils might fear! Thanks Eric, you've got me thinking!
#7 sildatorak May 25, 2004 22:45:40	Originally posted by Gray Richardson I wonder if they would capture other fiends and attach devices to subsume their will and turn them into drones? Or chop them up and use the parts in bizarre new combinations for more nefarious constructs? Now that could be a Hell that even the devils might fear! Reminds me of the Phyrexian Broodlings and all other things Phyrexian. You could easily incorporate any of the other ideas about Phyrexia from MtG into a mechanical layer of Baator.
#8 gray_richardson May 26, 2004 1:18:27	Creepy little critters those broodlings! They remind me somewhat of "Adam" the patchwork demon from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Or those creepy toys from Toy Story. Man, if those Phyrexians were to take up residence in Baator the property values would sure drop! People might just start thinking Hell was not such a nice place to live... Seriously, Sild, that's a great link and a great idea for more hellish constructs with which to populate the lower planes. All these great suggestions makes me think that there really is a story there to be explored. The Rule of Threes may even require it. Three races vying for control of Baator. That is you have the aboriginal Baatorians native to the plane losing control to the invading Law-Tainted Spawn of the True Evil Yugoloths. It only makes sense, nay it must follow from the Rule of Threes that the Devils should in turn clash with a counterbalancing force of Evil-tainted outcasts/pioneers/invaders from the plane of True Law. Heck, it's an age old tale; it's the story of Texas writ large on the planes! Conquistadors from Spain conquer Mexico and the American Southwest, displacing the Aztecs and other Native American peoples. Pioneers from the Northern United States in turn settle in Spanish-held lands and after reaching a critical mass declare themselves a sovreign Republic. War with Spain ensued over land that didn't really belong to either of them to begin with. Such grand happenings would lend themselves well to a Planescape campaign. How might this story go? One of the Nine maybe captures some inevitables, corrupts them or reverse-engineers evil copies of them for use as shock troops or for other mysterious purposes. He builds an army of them. They rebel and take control of a portion of one of the rings. Maybe the Iron City of Dis or maybe a more secluded, out-of-the-way corner of Hell. Or pilgrim Formians might infest a region of Baator, subtly and unbeknownst to the Baatezu, in the same way that termites get into the woodwork of your home, or cockroaches infest the darkplaces in the cracks and floorboards where no one can see. These new evil Formians form hives everywhere until the Baatezu realize far too late that they have a bug problem. Or Modrons might just march full bore into Hell with the idea of expanding their Law into Baator. Having fought their way across Acheron they find themselves changed over time, no longer exemplars of True order, their time down below has corrupted them. They come to like the Hells and decide to stay, creating a powerbase and from there expand to take over the rest of Baator. Surely the Devils would mobilize and an Alamo-esque battle would ensue. Due to their similar lawful natures, the fighting might be very formal and prescribed, with complex treaties and codes of chivalry and set times and places for battles and skirmishes. You could easily drop characters in the midst of such a conflict and the plot could drive a campaign for weeks or years. Such great ideas to develop into a campaign!
#9 zombiegleemax Jun 15, 2004 20:55:29	Originally posted by HvF The Iron City of Dis might be "reclaimed" (along with Talos the Triple Iron Golem) and Dispater tasked with keeping an eye on that realm from afar within his tower in the name of Baatezu "national" interest. -Eric Gorman That's another curiosity of mine. Just what is Talos' purpose for existing? Where'd it come from? What does it do? Why's it called the "Triple Iron Golem?" Who/what created it? And how did Dispater ever get it under his control?!?!? The only other tid-bit that I think I remember reading about Talos is that having it eat certain artifacts is a method of destroying said artifacts, which I believe was mentioned in the DMG (I might be wrong, though). I've no clue what the significance of Talos is. Would you happen to have any idea?
#10 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jun 15, 2004 21:27:50	I've never seen any other reference to Talos the Triple Iron Golem outside of that plot idea for destroying an artifact in the DMG... If there is, please illuminate me. This 'loth craves information like a drug addiction or a fetish.
#11 psionicpally_dup Jun 15, 2004 21:52:54	Talos, the Triple Iron Golem, was mentioned most recently in The Book of Vile Darkness (Great source book, by the way, if you like to have truely evil characters in your campaign). It was stated that he is currently serving Dispater in Dis. He was also given stats (Which, I believe, was the first time that statistics have been to Talos by a WOTC source). I haven't seen too much information beyond this and the Dungeon Master's Guide blurb, and I doubt that any exists. If memory serves me, he originated from Greco-Roman mythology.
#12 gray_richardson Jun 15, 2004 23:01:56	I only know of Talos from the movie the Seventh Voyage of Sinbad. He was a giant bronze golem that guarded the treasure of the gods. Sinbad killed him by unscrewing a cap on his heel that let all his vital fluids out. A quick google search indicates that in Greek mythology Talos was some kind of bronze man created by Hephaestos to guard the shores of Crete.
#13 sildatorak Jun 15, 2004 23:29:43	Originally posted by Gray Richardson I only know of Talos from the movie the Seventh Voyage of Sinbad. That's sounds like Jason and the Argonauts, actually.
#14 gray_richardson Jun 16, 2004 2:53:07	So it was! Sorry, I love those old Harryhausen films. The details sometimes blend together a little in my memory. But Talos was pretty cool wasn't he? I can't help but think the D&D writers must have seen the movie and that he could have been the inspiration for the D&D Talos.
#15 ohtar_turinson Jun 16, 2004 6:28:18	I think Talos was the statue that guarded Crete at the time of Daedelus, who made sailing away impossible. It'd throw giant stones at the ships it didn't recognize with great accuracy and sink them quickly. That was why Daedelus had to create wings rather than invent a way to get out of the tower he was imprisoned in and then a boat. As in all myths, I'm sure there are a thousand versions of this story. But I'm also fairly sure the movie is totally different all over again- what would the Argonauts be doing near Crete?
#16 zombiegleemax Jun 16, 2004 8:10:47	Originally posted by Sildatorak That's sounds like Jason and the Argonauts, actually. Is that the high-seas sequel to "Love, Actually"? Martine McCutcheon and Hugh Grant go on a rip-roaring adventure of daring do?
#17 ripvanwormer Jun 19, 2004 3:20:58	Originally posted by Blurpy the RABID!!!! I was wondering if anyone here knows where I could find info on the following: - how each of the Lords of the Nine came to power - any detailed info on the Reckoning - any info on the Dark Eight I put some profiles of the Eight at this url: http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/darkeight.html And profiles on the Lords of the Nine here: http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/devilkind.html
#18 gray_richardson Jun 19, 2004 10:40:43	As always Rip, the more I read your stuff, the more enamored I become of your writing. You write very cool pieces Rip! I hope Hiro did not did not suffer a similar fate to his father!