Last I heard, he was a vampire Blackguard? I admit RttToEE isn't exactly what I call a "canon" GH module but that's the most recent info printed.
Now, assuming he had been abducted, it would be easy enough to find reasons for it.
1] Raise the level of political instability in the region. No Thrommel, no unification of Veluna and Furyondy. No heir to the king. Bleak future for the locals.
2] Brainwash him (or clone him as they did with a certain nobleman to the East..) to get a puppet ruler in place. I doubt the nobles of Furyondy would agree to what happened in the Lordship of the Isles but at the very least a ruler devoted to the SB could make sure no help goes to those who fight the Brotherhood to the south.
Etc..
Belvor has no other heir so there's bound to be a succession struggle in Furyondy when the old boy pops his crowny clogs. A struggle for succession gives the Brotherhood and opportunty to advance any sleepers it has in Furyondy and get its people into positions of real power (if they aren't already).
So - not only do they prevent the unification of Veluna and Furyondy, they get their people into positions of power in one of the most powerful states in the Central Flanaess - one with a sizable navy on the Nyr Dyv at that.
Imagine what an even covertly pro-SB Furyondy could do to trade in the Central Flanaess if it started to apply the kind of levies that the Lordship of the Isles and SB apply in the Tilva and Gearnat Straits. When you think of it like that - the interest of the Knights of the Hart in retaking Dyvers suddenly gains a very sinister edge (take Dyvers, and Furyondy has a stranglehold on east west trade across the Nyr Dyv and a boot on the neck of Greyhawk City's prosperity)
From another angle - having control of Furyondy allows the Brotherhood a means of keeping Iuz in check. Iuz is as much a threat to the Brotherhood's dream of a new Suel Imperium in the Flanaess as Keoland, Furyondy, Nyrond or Aerdy. Keeping Furyondy and Iuz at each other's threats keeps two foes occupied and unable to interfere with the SB's plans elsewhere.
Now the fact that Thrommel ended up in the Temple of All Consumption suggests that the Black Brotherhood may have been the real motivating force behind the kidnapping (though for the reasons above, their agents wouldn't have had a hard time making the case to the Father of Obedience - under the guise of advancing the cause of the SB). If the whole Temple of Elemental Evil was the work of the cult of Tharizdun from the get go, then they might have got at Thrommel to avenge the defeat at Emridy Meadows and ensure that Veluna and Furyondy didn't meddle with their plans again. Why tun him into a vampire? To prevent Canon Hazen from raising him perhaps? A cruel joke?
P.
Last I heard, he was a vampire Blackguard? I admit RttToEE isn't exactly what I call a "canon" GH module but that's the most recent info printed.
Vampire Blackguard? Now I haven't seen this 'Return to' module, but my copy of the compiled T1-4 ToEE includes a chamber where a vampire lies in a coffin with a stake in its heart. It soon goes on to say its an illusion covering 'Prince Thrommel, Grand Marshall of Furyondy, Provost of Veluna, a Paladin Lord.' He is in stasis and the page goes on to describe his items and the considerable rewards for his rescue.
So I want to know about this RttToEE. It seems to fly in the face of the canon references of T1-T4.
Actually it doesn't fly in the face of that information. In 'Return' the illusionary Thrommel is assumed to have not been rescued in the original ToEE and was turned to a vampire and tied to the service of the clerics of Tharizdun.
Originally posted by mortellan
Vampire Blackguard? ... So I want to know about this RttToEE. It seems to fly in the face of the canon references of T1-T4.
Monte Cook, in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, assumes that Thrommel was captured during the Battle of Emridy Meadows and never was released from his coffin in the depths of the temple. He was kept in the temple for a long time as a prisoner. He was eventually brought to the the Cult of Tharizdun's fortress in the Lortmil Mountians, called the Temple of All Consumption, where he was infected with vamipirism and turned to evil after years of confinement, torture and the effect of the vampirism. He lost his paladinhood and became a 9th-level blackguard-vampire and servant of Tharizdun's cult leadership (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil © 2000 WotC page 120).
Check out THIS thread at Cook's RttToEE Web site. There are two takes on Prince Thrommel and his nature in the adventure - "The Redemption of Thrommel" and "Negotiating with Thrommel."
I, personaly, like how Cook developed this one of many confusing historical bits in Greyhawk.
Whether or not it makes sense that he is a vampire-blackguard in the service of Tharizdun is another matter entirely. I personally would have made him a ghost that the characters could have interacted with had I written RttToEE, if I ever deign to run it maybe I will.
Originally posted by Lassiviren
Certainly it makes sense that Thrommel was never rescued from the Temple at least according to cannon sources he never was.
While I am far from a canon-expert, I think you're correct, Lassiviren. And, given that Thrommel's disposition in the Temple of Elemental Evil is left unresolved in official publications, I think it is fair for Cook to spin Thrommel's fate this way.
In Thomas Reid's The Temple of Elemental Evil novel (© 2001), the heros find Thrommel and release him from his magical slumber in chapter 20. He immediately leaves the party in the beginnig of chapter 21 and departs the temple himself, heading to Mitrik. We don't even know if he makes it out alive. I don't see a chorus of voices suggesting Reid's book is official Greyhawk history. And Thrommel's circumstance in the book is treated too pedestrian to be given any real, sweeping weight in the campaign setting.
He immediately leaves the party in the beginnig of chapter 21 and departs the temple himself, heading to Mitrik. We don't even know if he makes it out alive.
actually we do... at the end of the book, after they have taken down the temple and banished Zuggy, the heroes are approached by a messenger at the innof the welcome wench who tells them that Thrommel wants them to come to Mirtek and work for him.... or something to that effect.
I do not believe that any of the recenter greyhawk novels are considered canon however (ToEE, ToH, AtG, or the series about the Justicar).
I am pretty sure that RttToEE is being ignored as far as canon sources go as well. At least to anyone that is considered 'official' at this point. (Living Greyhawk, LG Journal, etc.)
It seems to meet the criteria of an official WotC sorcebook and Monte Cook is hardly a lightweight in the field.
wrt LG, the setting was used as a special event a few years back so the ToAC is canon for LG at least. I can pretty much guarentee that no-one met Thrommel though as the max APL at the time was probably 6 or something.
Just curious is all.
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
I do not believe that any of the recenter greyhawk novels are considered canon ...
I definitely share this sentiment. Novels are too singular in view and perception. Usually, it is just one author.
Generally, I do take adventures, including Cook's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, as historically relevant to a campaign setting. Commercially published adventures are usually the result of the work of many people: project manager, design manager, creative directors, a host of editors, playtesters, stat writers, etcetera. So, given that there are more pesonalities, an adventure is more of a team project subject to broader discussion and interpretation. So, I think that by virtue of the approach to adventure publishing, adventures are a more credible source of what we usually interpret and adapt as canon.
Just my opinon - not law or official dictum. Let the flaming begin, lol.
Mike
Pat E