Originally posted by NPC Dave
No where in the entry of the Masters, Rules Cyclopedia, or the PC1 player character writeup does it mention whether they can turn undead. However, they are clerics. I assume no mention means they cannot turn undead, but does anyone here allow them to do so?
hsiao can cast clerical spells but yeah because it doesn't mention anything about turning undead then I'd say it was be a correct assumption that they have no skill to turn unded.
I was just looking up the rules for shamans of monstrous races under the Masters rules and it doesn't say wether they can turn undead or not, anyone know about them.
Originally posted by stanles
hsiao can cast clerical spells but yeah because it doesn't mention anything about turning undead then I'd say it was be a correct assumption that they have no skill to turn unded.
I was just looking up the rules for shamans of monstrous races under the Masters rules and it doesn't say wether they can turn undead or not, anyone know about them.
I'm guessing the same goes for monster shamans. Since it doesn't say that they can, they can't.
That is one advantage human clerics have over all the other characters with the ability to turn undead.
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
I'm guessing the same goes for monster shamans. Since it doesn't say that they can, they can't.
That is one advantage human clerics have over all the other characters with the ability to turn undead.
Håvard
but it actually says that monstrous shamans are clerics, so I would assume that they can, that is different to the hsiao where it just says that they can cast clerical spells.
Dwarf clerics could not turn undead, but I forget why. I need to look that up. I also can't recall if the Princess Ark series had elven clerics, and whether or not they could turn undead.
If hsiao and shamans could turn undead, it ought to at least show up in the special abilities entry.
Personally, I'd probably say they couldn't, viewing the ability to cast divine magic as more nature driven. It really could be argued either way though.
If a fighter becomes a paladin of an immortal who grants his clerics a bonus to Turn Undead, does the paladin get the bonus?
Originally posted by Kheldren
Slightly off topic but related...
If a fighter becomes a paladin of an immortal who grants his clerics a bonus to Turn Undead, does the paladin get the bonus?
The way I see it, only Clerics should be affected by the special rules concerning their immortals. Clerics who don't have the turning ability usually gains another ability instead.
You might want to set up special rules for Paladins for each individual Paladin, but that would probably be alot of work.
Cheers,
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
You might want to set up special rules for Paladins for each individual Paladin, but that would probably be alot of work.
Hmm... interesting, not all paladins have to have the same powers. Like the variations of the paladin in the Baldurs Gate II computer game, Mystaran paladins could have different bonuses / powers depending on which Immortals they follow?
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by Spellweaver
Hmm... interesting, not all paladins have to have the same powers. Like the variations of the paladin in the Baldurs Gate II computer game, Mystaran paladins could have different bonuses / powers depending on which Immortals they follow?
I am assuming we are talking OD&D here and not 3e, right? However, the variant class rules introduced in 3e may easily be used in OE aswell; I already used it for creating alternate Forester and Rake elsewhere on this forum.
The idea would be that you can remove one ability and add another of more or less the same level of power. Note that Chosing the Alignments Chaotic or Lawful should be considered as disadvantages which should be compensated for by abilities, while a Neutral character needs another penalty to balance up for any ability he wants to have.
Keep in mind that if youre not careful, this kind of meddling could result in upsetting the game balance.
Let me know what comes out of this!
Havard
Originally posted by havard
I am assuming we are talking OD&D here and not 3e, right?
Actually, I was talking about the 3E paladin ;) I had completely forgotten about the Knight, Paladin and Avenger from 0D&D.
You are absolutely right that it risks unbalancing the game if the powers are not evenly substituted for something else. Maybe we shouldn't tamper with the paladin class. My initial thought would be that it would be cool if a paladin of Tarastia had different powers from a paladin of Ixion but the more I think about it most churches are simply not suited (IMO) to have paladins in their ranks. I mean, whoever heard of a "paladin of profit" (Asterius) or a "paladin of serious partying" (Faunus) ??
Only the churches close to the alignment Lawful Good should have paladins and, IMO, most paladins should belong the "Church of Lawful Good" (i.e. worshipping and getting spells from the ideal (the alignment/ethos/concept) lawful good). Otherwise we risk turning the paladin away from his high ideals, which is what makes him a paladin, and into a cleric/fighter templar kind of character who gets involved in all the politics and bollocks that come with the established churches.
Well, that is just my opinion, anyway. :D
:-) Jesper
I do think adding flavour to 3E Paladins is worth considering, but that is definitely another thread.
Anyway, back to my question - suppose someone manages to become a Paladin of Diamond (and I don't mean Prince J of Glantri). The WotI write-up on Diamond says that he grants his clerics a +2 to turn undead (if my memory is working this morning) - would a paladin get this as they "cast spells and turn undead as a cleric with one third their level"? My personal opinion is yes, as a cleric 1/3 their level of Diamond gets the bonus. If so, I guess as a DM it is time to break out the undead with save v turn (or even better the liege-pawn rules and some unturnable lieges as in M3).
I really must get around to lookling up Hsiao on their turning...
In OD&D, the simple answer is no. Paladins do not get the benefits of their respective deity unless you do an alternate writeup for such Paladins. IMO to make it balanced, they would have to give up another class ability to gain such a "granted power". Not sure what that would be though,
Håvard
From the Masters set:
The hsiao (sh-HOW) are a race of peaceful cleric-philosophers who inhabit woodlands and forests. They appear as giant owls with broad feathered wings and large golden eyes. The creatures live in trees, making earthen nests and tunnels high above the forest floor. The hsiao know and work closely with other woodland creatures (including centaurs, elves, treants, and unicorns), and may call upon them for aid. Most of these avian clerics are 4th level; 25% are higher (as given above; maximum level is 15th).
Although able to physically defend themselves with their sharp claws and beak, the owl-clerics depend on the assistance of their woodland allies for protection. The hsiao are know to some druids, though their philosophies (alignments) obviously differ greatly.
They are listed as 4-15HD and alignment Lawful.
I have to say that I find this totally clear - they are first and foremost Lawful Clerics and therefore can Turn Undead unless you add flavour by chosing an immortal patron and end up with one that does not grant Turning.
Their base differences to normal (human) clerics are d8 not d6 hp, no stat modifiers, no armour or equipment (except in special cases) and possession of natural weapons, armour and flight.
Enjoy