Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gray_richardson May 28, 2004 0:25:59	I am running a Forgotten Realms campaign and am trying to get my PC's over to Ravenloft to rescue a kidnapped princess. They are still in Faerun and have just discovered that the NPC is being held in a country called Barovia that they have never heard of in a castle called Ravenloft. One of my players is a bard and asked if he could make a Bardic Knowledge roll to see if he knew any details or tidbits about Ravenloft. I am brand new to Ravenloft but at one of my player's request I am trying to work it into the campaign. Any suggestions as to some good tidbits or legends that a successfull Bardic Knowledge roll might reveal to a Bard from Faerun? Doesn't have to be essential to the plot, could be totally random yet interesting and obscure little facts. Any help you could give would be tremendously appreciated.
#2 zombiegleemax May 28, 2004 0:41:32	- One of the things probably would be that, if the princess is already in the castle Ravenloft, it probably is not that sweet and lively princess anymore. - Secondly... err... what level exactly are your players to go on a princess saving mission to castle Ravenloft??? - Another thing could be that when you already enter the land of the mists, you probably will never leave that dread realm again. - And... simon says that always be home before dark. Ok ok... actually... i think that bardic knowledge check does not really give him any information about Ravenloft, that's what knowledge Ravenloft is for and I kinda suggest that you should consider placing your princess somewhere else:D Running a game in Ravenloft requires a bit research, and i don't just mean gamebooks. Movies, history, mythology and many classic victorian/gothic horror stories. You should read this thread: What's so great about this world.
#3 The_Jester May 28, 2004 1:17:28	Since there is almost no one who has escaped from Ravenloft with lots of information on the Demiplace I doubt there would be alot of bardic knowledge floating about. And since both Barovia and Castle Ravenloft are from a different world originally its unlikely there's much information on those floating about. The best they could hope for is a few scattered whispers from escaped adventurers or maybe some ancient book describing someone's travels.
#4 The_Jester May 28, 2004 1:17:28	oops... double post
#5 gray_richardson May 28, 2004 17:37:44	Well, prepared or not it's a done deal; the characters are heading to Barovia. So I have to get a fast education in Ravenloft if I want to pull it off successfully. I appreciate the link Kyylik, I will check that out and I will try to do honor to the Demiplane of Dread. I don't have to know everything but if I can just learn enough to make it engaging and fun for a few weeks it should be enough to rescue the princess and get back home again. I think I have a way to get them back when they are finished with their mission. So if a family of Vistani had managed to escape the mists into Faerun, and if they had met up with the Bard player a few years back and swapped stories over a campfire to cut the night chill. Might he have picked up any tidbits or legends of note? And if so, what kind of things might he have learned?
#6 The_Jester May 28, 2004 18:54:55	Well Vistani may or may not be able to leave at will. Or at least the Zarova tribe of the Manusa tasque. He would learn only mysteries, riddles, and half-truths from the Zarova. They might have tantilized him with advice on his future and told him information he needs to know because they would see him entering Ravenloft. Stuff like: "You will enter a place where the shadows are long and entwine with your one where your actions and misdeeds will be reflected upon your flesh and no one can be trusted completely, especially yourself." Etc, etc.
#7 The_Jester May 28, 2004 18:54:55	double post again I'm blaming my ISP and IE for this
#8 zombiegleemax May 30, 2004 8:31:41	I absolutely think that a Bardic Knowledge check would yield some info on Ravenloft. After all, it's probably quite infamous. I like the Vistani twist. I'd set the DC for that to about 15. If he can make a DC 25 or 30, he'll also know a little bit about the darklords, dark powers and that no-escape part that is so important. In reverse order from how I said it, probably.
#9 zombiegleemax May 31, 2004 0:18:37	I'd let it, but it would be extremely high. And there'd be some rules to remember. For one, make sure it is NOT called Ravenloft, that is not the name of the Plane, it's the name of the setting. Nobody calls Faerun the Forgotten Realms, nobody calls the Demiplane of Dread Ravenloft. So if you hear anything it'll be about strange otherworldly countries bound by Mist, or a specific Demiplane of Dread. Here's some suggestions: You may of heard from some plane-traveler that there's something scary in the Deep Ethereal, some evil bubble of Dread. Nothing that goes in ever comes out. You may of met a crazy old man who, long ago when he was an able-bodied adventurer, remembers wandering into Mists with his companions and coming out a week later mad, his friends slaughtered, and screaming of the dark kingdom of Barovia, the treachery of gypsies, and the Demon Strahd who tormented and slaughtered him and his companions until he managed to destroy him with some powerful weapon. You may of read something written by a Sage of Candlekeep, listing off known Demiplanes. The realm of Dreams, the Mirror planes, The Demonweb Pits, the Paraelemental, and Quasi-Elemental planes, and perhaps the Demiplane of Dread. Perhaps you hear of a wolfwere serial killer bard named Harkon Lucas who ages ago tried to unite the wolfwere's of Faerun to assault Cormyr, and then mysteriously dissapeared. A similar note may of been recorded about a Thayan Red Wizard named Hazlik. Maybe you met a Zarovan Vistani who told your fortune once and mentioned a dark fate you would have in a looming Castle named Ravenloft. Maybe you overheard Elminster in some bar in Waterdeep a while back speaking to some fellow adventurers about no matter how bad the Illithids of the Underdark are, or even the Illithids in Realmspace, that the depredations of those in the lost kingdom of Bluetspur, banished to some backwater demiplane for all eternity, was by far the most evil. Yeah, stuff like that.
#10 zombiegleemax May 31, 2004 1:11:22	I'm writing a long fiction set in RavenLoft and my main character, an outworlder, has taken to calling RavenLoft 'The Misted Lands'. Perhaps you could adopt that for your game.
#11 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2004 3:07:12	Given that the people of the Realms are somewhat plane savy ans sport a number of powerful and learned individuals it seems reasonable that some information is available about a demi-plane floating in the deep ethereal that traps almost everyone who eneters in a realm with insidous evil that often masquerades as good (or at least neutrality). People who escape the mist filled prison plane tend to have haunted eyes and never fully seem to shake off their ordeal. This much a really good Bardic Lore check might turn up. Dedicated research and an attempt to track down a RL escapee might turn up more. I'd be careful about giving out more. In at least one of the editions (RL CS?) it specifically mentions that Bards don't learn a little bit about everything, only a little bit about everything in the domain they hail from. How much worse for a Bard several planes away? I don't think the name of Barovia is available through a simple roll of a d20 much less the land's most infamous castle and the history of the von Zarovich line. If you want the PC to have mingled with the vistani before hand that moves out of the realm of bardic knowledge and into the realm of planting plot hooks and adventure seeds as the DM. Keep in mind the motivations of the vistani. They have a tendency to avoid antagonizing the Darklords in general and have a pact to act as Strahd's spies in particular. They aren't going to make waves with Strahd by helping (presumably powerful) outworlder heroes find his doorstep without an extremely compelling reason. Frustrating the schemes of Malochio might count. General benificence and/or taking a shine to the PCs probably bends credibility. What does Strahd want with the princess anyhow? -Eric Gorman
#12 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2004 3:07:17	**double post**
#13 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2004 3:25:18	Btw if to go by the Ravenloft core rules, one cannot use bardic knowledge at all before adventuring one year on the land of the mists...
#14 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2004 9:32:02	Originally posted by Kyylik Btw if to go by the Ravenloft core rules, one cannot use bardic knowledge at all before adventuring one year on the land of the mists... The core rules all deal with making a Bardic Knowledge check inside the demiplane. I'm quite certain rumours would have seeped out to the outside, especially after that whole sordid Castle Spulzeer affair. How much info you actually want to give out depends on the roll the player makes and the style you dungeonmaster in. Make it as cryptic or as plain as you want.
#15 gray_richardson Jun 02, 2004 12:16:45	These are great suggestions everyone! Thanks! You have given me a ton of ideas! The princess is being held by Strahd in the demiplane on behalf of the Arcane Brotherhood and the lich Arklem Greeth who have kidnapped her as part of a plot to facilitate a war in the North. Greeth struck a deal with Strahd to hold her in the Demiplane of Dread because the forces of good in the North would have been able to scry her location and rescue her if she were being kept anywhere in the Realms. Why Strahd would aid Greeth in this is a mystery, but the princess is being held in Castle Ravenloft and it's from there that the party must rescue her somehow.
#16 malus_black Jun 03, 2004 2:01:13	Originally posted by Gray Richardson The princess is being held by Strahd in the demiplane on behalf of the Arcane Brotherhood and the lich Arklem Greeth who have kidnapped her as part of a plot to facilitate a war in the North. How on earth did they enter Ravenloft or even contact him? It's got to be easier to storm Asmodeus' citadel in Nessus than it is to enter Ravenloft uninvited... Anyway, Why Strahd would aid Greeth in this is a mystery, but the princess is being held in Castle Ravenloft and it's from there that the party must rescue her somehow. The only reason why Strahd would even consider doing this is if the princess is Tatyana reborn. And if that is the case, he's certainly not playing along with the Arcane Brotherhood... and that's were things get interesting... What level did you say the PCs were again? Castle Ravenloft wasn't easy to survive in I6, and Strahd's learned a lot since then. Here is a map of Castle Ravenloft.
#17 gray_richardson Jun 04, 2004 1:47:29	Malus, thanks a bunch! That is so cool of you to link to those maps! That will be very helpful to me. The party will be about 13th level by the time they make their way to Barovia and will have a few adventures before they get to Castle Ravenloft, so maybe 14th level. There are currently 7 PC's in the party. I am hoping that will be adequate. I was planning on using the recent 3.5 write-up of Strahd in Dragon Magazine. One of the PC's is a Paladin and I am informed that this could be very bad for him and/or the party. Not sure how to deal with that yet. Any suggestions?
#18 malus_black Jun 04, 2004 6:50:31	Originally posted by Gray Richardson Malus, thanks a bunch! That is so cool of you to link to those maps! That will be very helpful to me. No problem. The party will be about 13th level by the time they make their way to Barovia and will have a few adventures before they get to Castle Ravenloft, so maybe 14th level. There are currently 7 PC's in the party. I am hoping that will be adequate. Depends... Strahd knows his castle inside out, and can pop up anywhere to decimate half your party... but they'll be fine as long as they don't rush into anything I was planning on using the recent 3.5 write-up of Strahd in Dragon Magazine. Don't. Buy or borrow Ravenloft Gazetteer 1, which has got a ton of information on Barovia as well... One of the PC's is a Paladin and I am informed that this could be very bad for him and/or the party. Not sure how to deal with that yet. Oh, it's bad all right... the rules for paladins in Ravenloft are in the Ravenloft Campaign Setting (3E), or the Ravenloft PHB (3,5), although I don't think they've changed much... the main changes are loss of the Detect Evil ability (no mortal magic can detect moral alignment in Ravenloft) and Darklords being able to find them as they grow more powerful... but that won't be too bad if you're in Barovia, since Strahd probably knows you're coming anyway... Any suggestions? Read this.
#19 zombiegleemax Jun 04, 2004 9:18:43	Originally posted by Perilanku You may of heard from some plane-traveler that there's something scary in the Deep Ethereal, some evil bubble of Dread. Nothing that goes in ever comes out.. Or that it is so heavenly within no one wants to leave.
#20 zombiegleemax Jun 10, 2004 6:36:02	Oh, that'd be rich Grimfondle. Even I'm not evil enough to spring that angle: "Ooohh honey! Grab a towel and a chain mail bikini, where going on vacation to a locals only demi-plane, its so great the locals have created these barriers to keep normal people out but I've got just the plan..." Gray it seems like you have a pretty good handle on things and other have posted useful links for you. One last thing to remember is that Strahd thinks on deep levels, usually has back up plans, has survived at least two serious attempts to sack his castle by "adventurers". He has spent the last two centuries matching plot for plot with a powerful lich in between attempts (doomed to fail) to win the love of the ever re-incarnated woman Tatyana. Though not exactly a wheels within wheels kind of villian Strahd understands the motivations of other people and usually has a fairly easy time manipulating events to his advantage while protecting his rear. Though the PCs are hosed if they rashly charge in they should also be doomed if they don't move fast enough. If there's a 13th level Paladin in Barovia you better believe Strahd is going to (1) find out about him or her in a hurry (2) use his crystal ball and spys to find them if intial attempts to locate the PC fail, and (3) take an active interest in finding the PCs goals, weaknesses and/or having them picked off or corrupted long before they reach his castle. Poison in their wine, knives in their sleep and seduction by a vampiress are just the opening gambits he'll use. Strahd has the resources of a small country to use against the PCs and few limitations on how to weild it. Just about anyone in Barovia will do whatever he orders for fear for their lives or the lives of their loved ones. Your poor poor PCs. =) -Eric Gorman