Athas' moons, Ral an Guthay, are inhabited? Are there any evidence that proves it or disproves it? Where can I find them?
Others speculate that the Messenger was some sort of "ship" which housed anient halfings from the blue age.
There is no real evedence to back either theroy but are possiblities.
As for the Moons of Athas nothing has been stated as to anything of interest being there. I have my own thoughts what could be there though.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
1) Causes the earthquake.
2) Sends a lot of the kreen scrambling into the Tablelands.
3) Sends a huge megablob after the kreen and into the Tablelands.
Good times.
2. I don't personally think they are, but if you want them to be....
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
1. I think it's covered in the official timeline, or something.
2. I don't personally think they are, but if you want them to be....
1. Do you know where I can find it?
2. Yeah, of course I do! Any suggestions???
Originally posted by brun01
1. Do you know where I can find it?
2. Yeah, of course I do! Any suggestions???
I forget the site link to the official timeline. I think Nytcrawlr might have it on his site, or Jon might, or something....
Well, the moons could be inhabited by Rhulisti hlflings that colonized them during the blue age or something.... Possibly their knowledge of the technology has broken down over the years, and they are something similar to the Rhul-Thaun on the Jagged Cliffs - they can fix life-shaped things, but not make any new ones, or something. Maybe one of them was a penal colony or something. I dunno.... either way, they don't have a way off those moons, and thus are trapped there, and blissfully unaware of the goings-on on the actuly world of Athas.
That gave me a lot of ideas for my campaign...
Need to get Nyt in here to clarify.
Originally posted by brun01
That's great, thanks a lot! :D
That gave me a lot of ideas for my campaign...
No problem
and Dawnstealer - that does sound familiar...
The chief unofficial/official rumor about the Messenger is that it is a halfling spaceship that landed. Playing off this, howabout the original reason they left was because they're psionists who grew exceptionally powerful, such that they couldn't control their powers. It was a matter that their ESP was "on" constantly, driving them to insanity as they hear the thoughts of each and every person on the planet. The lifemasters made the Messenger to act an ark for them. Out in space, away from athas, the "noise" goes away, and they could get control of their power. It returns once every cycle so that it could pick up more halflings that suffer the same problem, and possibly drop off those that have gained control. Maybe it landed because the problem no longer exists?
Originally posted by Nightdruid
I just had a really...weird (there's that word again!!) idea.
The chief unofficial/official rumor about the Messenger is that it is a halfling spaceship that landed. Playing off this, howabout the original reason they left was because they're psionists who grew exceptionally powerful, such that they couldn't control their powers. It was a matter that their ESP was "on" constantly, driving them to insanity as they hear the thoughts of each and every person on the planet. The lifemasters made the Messenger to act an ark for them. Out in space, away from athas, the "noise" goes away, and they could get control of their power. It returns once every cycle so that it could pick up more halflings that suffer the same problem, and possibly drop off those that have gained control. Maybe it landed because the problem no longer exists?
I dunno - the setting seems to imply that Psionics were part of the Rebirth and Green Age, not something that existed in the Blue Age.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I dunno - the setting seems to imply that Psionics were part of the Rebirth and Green Age, not something that existed in the Blue Age.
That's right, my bad! Forgot about the fact that psionics were green age.
Random thought.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
What if the Messenger was actual an "ark" that housed some of the extinguished races from the Cleansing Wars (i.e. gnomes, goblins, etc) put there by some mad wizard/druid to save them from champions (think a twisted insane Noah). After thousands of years of being trapped in the ark they end up in breeding forming some twisted half gnome/goblin race (evil dromites?) which have come to plague Athas?
That's an even bigger problem...the cleansing wars are thousands of years later still...the Messenger was Blue Age, not Green/Brown Age. (I made the same mistake
Like I said. Just an off the top of my head idea.
--Syane, The Terror of Urik
of course, there's the problem tht he'd have to actully know wht the messenger was....
Not that I really want to defend a half baked idea but...... I don't see why he wouldn't know what it was. A durid/wizard would be pretty educated maybe even the astronomer that discovered it.
The concept could easily be explained. Just like halflings in space
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
Not that I really want to defend a half baked idea but...... I don't see why he wouldn't know what it was. A durid/wizard would be pretty educated maybe even the astronomer that discovered it.
The concept could easily be explained. Just like halflings in space
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Whle somewhat true - the thing is - the records of the Blue age have been lost to history. This druid/psion would have had to a) suspected that there was a Blue Age with a long-lost powerful race around. b) that the messenger was something they designed and put there, and not a naturally-occurring event. and b) what this all does in relation to his capabilities. It's a stretch - a very large one, but that's why it's improbably, not impossible.
Its a crazy idea at best I realize that. People can do what they like with. It has holes in it, but could be worked out to a solid concept.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
I may not have explained my concept clearly. It would be a druid/wizard or druid/psion (pyreen?) that transported the last reminance of the dead races to the already made Messenger ( It being a natural comet ) that he had altered in such a way (think Star Trek II and the gensis project) to house the some of the gnomes, goblins or whatever.
Its a crazy idea at best I realize that. People can do what they like with. It has holes in it, but could be worked out to a solid concept.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
hum... and the space hamsters?? :D They would be on the messenger too?
Originally posted by Sysane
I may not have explained my concept clearly. It would be a druid/wizard or druid/psion (pyreen?) that transported the last reminance of the dead races to the already made Messenger ( It being a natural comet ) that he had altered in such a way (think Star Trek II and the gensis project) to house the some of the gnomes, goblins or whatever.
Its a crazy idea at best I realize that. People can do what they like with. It has holes in it, but could be worked out to a solid concept.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Ahh. Well, OK then!
Originally posted by Sysane
I may not have explained my concept clearly. It would be a druid/wizard or druid/psion (pyreen?) that transported the last reminance of the dead races to the already made Messenger ( It being a natural comet ) that he had altered in such a way (think Star Trek II and the gensis project) to house the some of the gnomes, goblins or whatever.
Its a crazy idea at best I realize that. People can do what they like with. It has holes in it, but could be worked out to a solid concept.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Ok, let's assume someone did, but with what purpose?? The sole preservation of the races? There isn't in Dark Sun entire history (I'm guessing) records of someone that powerful and altruistic enough to do such an amazing thing.
And Oronis wouldn't be able to do it, since no one can psionically travel back to the blue age,... or could he?
Ok, let's assume someone did, but with what purpose?? The sole preservation of the races? There isn't in Dark Sun entire history (I'm guessing) records of someone that powerful and altruistic enough to do such an amazing thing.
And Oronis wouldn't be able to do it, since no one can psionically travel back to the blue age,... or could he?
This would have happened during the Cleansing Wars not the Blue Age. And your right. There is no one "on record" that could have done such a thing. Hence why no one would know what the Messenger actual was. Have to keep it secert in order to keep it from the Champions. Think outside the box
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
This would have happened during the Cleansing Wars not the Blue Age. And your right. There is no one "on record" that could have done such a thing. Hence why no one would know what the Messenger actual was. Have to keep it secert in order to keep it from the Champions. Think outside the box
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
I agree, that would have happened during the Cleansing Wars...
About thinking outside the box. Ok. Let's give it a try. Do you have any suggestions on who did it? Any not-so-known personality?
Getting back to the core subject: So, now where is the messenger? Has it fallen on Athas then? How would that interfere with the post-athas.org's Dark Sun (Paizo's)? Any one has the story that solves the formula:
Athas.org's Dark Sun + Messenger fallen = Paizo's Dark Sun
If anyone could have done this it would have been a wizard/psion of a durid/psion. An an acentric pyreen perhaps.
The common belief is that the Messenger cashed/landed when Rajaat was freed briefly from the Black. Its also the belief that the Messenger was some sort of vessel that housed anicent halflings from the Blue Age.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
If anyone could have done this it would have been a wizard/psion of a durid/psion. An an acentric pyreen perhaps.
The common belief is that the Messenger cashed/landed when Rajaat was freed briefly from the Black. Its also the belief that the Messenger was some sort of vessel that housed anicent halflings from the Blue Age.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
If anyone could have done this it would have been a wizard/psion of a durid/psion. An an acentric pyreen perhaps.
The common belief is that the Messenger cashed/landed when Rajaat was freed briefly from the Black. Its also the belief that the Messenger was some sort of vessel that housed anicent halflings from the Blue Age.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Sysane
Damn triple post!!! Sorry
The ancient curse of the multiple posts attacks again the poor "submit Reply" button....
Following the wars with the nature benders, the nature masters attempted to increase life in the ocean, resulting in the brown tide. This sounds a lot like red tide, which, IIRC, is an infestation of microscopic organisims. So maybe the nature masters *were* successful in increasing life in the oceans, overly so. The brown tide threatened the whole planet. The nature masters could kill it, but perhaps the collective whole was sentient & innocent (but unable to control its growth). So instead of killing it, they shape it into a spacecraft (ie the Messenger), and some nature masters take it into space as a means of keeping it from killing athas. The Prestine Tower was their "mission control" center. When Rajaat escaped from the Black, perhaps the act made the Messenger sick and it needed to head home to heal (or maybe just die/reproduce).
A similiar vein of thought has the halflings shipping a huge section of the brown tide to the sun itself, where it adapted (in the process the sun goes yellow). As they "evolved", eventually they made the sun go red, and are now pretty darned advanced. The sun is home to strange creatures that thrive in the hot environment of the sun.
Anyhoo just some ramblings.
Originally posted by Sysane
Damn triple post!!! Sorry
Don't apologize to us, it's your poor "send" button that was physically abused.
Don't apologize to us, it's your poor "send" button that was physically abused.
I'm a bad man.
-Sysane, The Button Abuser of Urik
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Can't the messenger simply be a comet?
NO! That's boring! It must be a big halfling spacecraft, gosh darnit!! :D
Heh, kidding aside, comets are traditionally sources of great mystery. Heck, even today our knowledge of them is far from complete. In ancient times, they were seen as terrible signs of doom and destruction (which usually became self-fulfilling prophosies). HOnestly I don't have much problem with it either way, I'm just tossing out ideas here & there in a brainstorming-type session.
.Maybe it broke-up into much smaller pieces to land somewhere in the Crimson Savannah, the Scorpion Plains, the Scorched Plateau, and so on. Um, 'Escape Pods', if you will...
Originally posted by Ablamar
If The Messenger were a real comet, it's doubtful it crashed into Athas to cause the Great Earthquake since it probably would have wiped out all life on the planet, thereby rendering our campaigns useless
Unless it had the mass of a golf ball by that point.
. In ancient times, they were seen as terrible signs of doom and destruction (which usually became self-fulfilling prophosies).
This is my point exactly and how I have used the messenger in my game. Its not a ship, simply a comet. But do the residents of Athas understand exactly what a comet is? Sorta. Depends on the culture. The Messenger represents a bringer of omen, whether for good or evil. While fleshing out some finer points of detail and history, I tied many events of historical signifigance to the appearance of the messenger (most such events were only of importance in hindsight). The arrival of the messenger, or at least within a few months prior to its arrival to within a few months after its passing, was historically a time of small change. Something always happened that had a general impact on the culture of Athas. Granted, this approach did mean I had to alter a few dates out of the official timeline for events that I wanted to include in this, but I'm free to do that.
Originally posted by Nightdruid
NO! That's boring! It must be a big halfling spacecraft, gosh darnit!! :D
Darnit, no! It's actually a giant phallic symbol some pranking frat-boy halflings launched into space as a huge gag! They wanted to **** the world! Haha! I kill me! (Get it? Cause it crashes into Athas? Huh?)
Originally posted by Xlorep Darkhelm
Unless it had the mass of a golf ball by that point.
Golf ball destroys Athas. Film at 11!
Sounds like bad anime! :D
Look of panic: "We're doomed!"
Look of worry: "What is it?"
Fist on heart: "It's...it's...A GOLF BALL!!"
Look of confusion: "A...what..?"
Heroic pose: "We've got to stop that golf ball! It's hurtling towards us at an unimaginable velocity!"
Look of confusion: "What's a 'golf'?"
Dramatic fist shaking: "Foolish git! Our world will be splintered into a thousand fractured pieces! We will be so much sand scattered through the void!"
Look of confusion: "How big is this ball?"
Dramatic gesturing: "It is the size of a small stone. But our world will feel it's crushing wrath if we do not act soon!! How can we stop this harbringer of fiery doom?"
Look of confusion: "Is he nearing the insanity stage of his dragonhood transformation or something?"
Golf swing: "FORE!"
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
It's actually based on something that Nyt asked about at GenCon. I don't remember who, exactly, he talked to, but it was official. I don't think it was in the official timeline; more an idea for a future that never happened (thanks to TSR being a bunch of dumbasses).
Need to get Nyt in here to clarify.
That would be Bill (I can't believe it's not butter!) Slavicsek.
:D
And it was a future idea for Athas till it (being Athas) got canned and simply buried after a, ahem, nice little note sent to the current cheif of T$R at the time. Something about a fanatical, honked off, DS fan calling her the C word or something for cancelling Dark Sun. He had bad timing too, cause apparently there were talks of bringing it back, according to Kevin Melka.
And no it wasn't me, heh. :D
Originally posted by greyorm
Sounds like bad anime! :D
Don't forget the big Disney eyes, can't forget those.
Originally posted by greyorm
Darnit, no! It's actually a giant phallic symbol some pranking frat-boy halflings launched into space as a huge gag! They wanted to **** the world! Haha! I kill me! (Get it? Cause it crashes into Athas? Huh?)
Wait a sec, the halflings are Syreen?
Now I definately have to get to athas...:D
Golf ball destroys Athas. Film at 11!
Sounds like bad anime! :D
Heh, you know, I could see the sorcerer-kings "powering up" DBZ-style...that'd be hilarious. Borys comes back as a "Super Dragon", which involves lots of yelling for no appearant reason and his body turns gold-colored. Hmmm...you know, that would certainly explain the Dragon Bowl valley, given that DBZ-style powerups involve several tons of rock being hurled into the sky...
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Heh, you know, I could see the sorcerer-kings "powering up" DBZ-style...that'd be hilarious. Borys comes back as a "Super Dragon", which involves lots of yelling for no appearant reason and his body turns gold-colored. Hmmm...you know, that would certainly explain the Dragon Bowl valley, given that DBZ-style powerups involve several tons of rock being hurled into the sky...
You do realise that there's a lynch mob with your name on it right about now right?
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
You do realise that there's a lynch mob with your name on it right about now right?
I'll just distract them with halfling syreens before sicking Bory-ku on them...
Originally posted by Nightdruid
I'll just distract them with halfling syreens before sicking Bory-ku on them...
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Go go Power Rangers!
If I had Mighty Morphine, I'd be a Power Ranger too!
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Go go Power Rangers!
Bah...go Voltron Force!
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Bah...go Voltron Force!
LOL, been awhile since I've seen that.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
LOL, been awhile since I've seen that.
Ya, me too (recent Megas XLR ep. reminded me of them). The lions were awesome, even if the characters where lame and Voltron itself was kinda dopey
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I actually liked the little vehicles voltron, and the 3 robots voltron better than the lions.
Saw the vehicles one a couple of times, but never saw the 3 robot one.
Is there any supplement from the second edition that brings any information about the two moons?
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
As for the Messenger, I totally ignore that spaceship-comet crap. I simply made the Messenger the symbolic representation of the sadly declining health of Athas. When it disappeared, it was a symbolic event that represented Athas' uncertain future, now that the vast majority of the sorcerer-kings are dead or are otherwise no more. If it reappears, it'll be a sign that Athas is once again on the sorry road to total ecological damnation.
(Who put the Messenger in the sky to act as a symbol, you ask? Simple: No one did. It just happened, the way gravity and hunger "happen" without being prompted. It was just a natural, yet magical, occurance.)
--no need for spaceship-comets, thank you very much NB
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
As for the two moons Ral and Guthay, the old 2e Dragon Kings supplement (ah, how I love that book!) has a small selection of Athasian myths and tall tales in the front, and one of these tall tales mentions a man flying to one of the moons to "receive it's wisdom." Poor bastard came back stark-raving mad, and ended up destroying his villages with his insane edicts. Something to ponder, eh?
Gonna take a look at Dragon Kings..
thanks.
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
--no need for spaceship-comets, thank you very much NB
Blame Bill Slavicsek, I do, heh.
However, after talking to Lynn Abbey and what she would do about it, I changed my mind.
The worst cultural war you could ever imagine happening on a world like Athas is not something to scoff at.
To each their own though.
As for the Messenger, I totally ignore that spaceship-comet crap. I simply made the Messenger the symbolic representation of the sadly declining health of Athas. When it disappeared, it was a symbolic event that represented Athas' uncertain future, now that the vast majority of the sorcerer-kings are dead or are otherwise no more. If it reappears, it'll be a sign that Athas is once again on the sorry road to total ecological damnation.
I like that.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Lynn Abbey's Dark Sun notes on Rise and Fall of a Dragon King
Nyt... where did you find these notes?? How close are they to the canon material?
Originally posted by Fabrício Madruga Lopes
Nyt... where did you find these notes?? How close are they to the canon material?
Got them fom Lynn Abbey herself.
Those are the notes she did before writing out the novel.