Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax May 30, 2004 1:12:55	Just as the title, how do introduce new players, etc to Greyhawk? Through Grewhawk-specific, modules related to the setting, or by placing general adventures in the world, or by creating your own campaigns there? In essence then- how do you get others into 'Greyhawk'? I've been reading the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer galore, but haven't as of yet been able to get the players to feel the 'big picture' of the setting, so any suggestions in this matter would be appreciated.
#2 hesparex May 30, 2004 2:49:56	1st Edition DMG artifacts section
#3 Mortepierre May 30, 2004 3:07:44	If I am trying to sell the GH setting to players (be they vet. or newbies), I concentrate on a few key factors: 1) The biggest selling point of the setting is that it is the homeworld of those wizards who invented all those famous spells in the PHB. Here, when you cast a spell named after Mordenkainen, people will grow suspicious about your loyalties. If you cast a spell named after Rary, expect some hard stares. Etc... Not only that but you can meet them in the flesh! (so to speak) 2) The setting has to feel alive. I have always set the beginning of my GH campaigns at least 5 years in the past (according to the LG current calendar). That way, I have plenty of "future" events I can use to make the players feel their world is evolving around them, whether they are there to witness it or not. 585 CY is a good year. Right after the war, the world is still in ruins and "where" you come from actually matters. The perfect time for would-be heroes. Moreover, I have spent long hours on the GH chronology. From time to time, I make NPC refer to past events in front of the players. When PC discover a town, they have to feel the place has its own history. It wasn't "built" just to accommodate them for the night. 3) I try to heighten nationality-related feelings and attitudes. An Ulek dwarf isn't a Rakers dwarf. A Keoland suel human, isn't a Scarlet Brotherhood human. 4) I have storytellers & bards refer to many of the old infamous dungeons that new players have heard vague rumors about (Tomb of Horror, White Plume Mountain, etc..). They don't know exactly what those are but many have heard the name once or twice from veterans. It catch their attention. 5) I make sure they understand this isn't another setting *cough FR cough* No drown ranger running around. No Mystra. And, especially, NO Elminster!
#4 mortellan May 30, 2004 5:30:26	1st Edition DMG artifacts section Amen there. Best D&D book I own. Artifacts are a great way to inject GH feel into a campaign. They have a specific history that amounts to more than a random sword +1 made by a local hedge mage. Each artifact puts the players in perspective of the timeline and they introduce them to famous heroes or infamous villains associated with the relic that are GH fixtures. In addition artifacts are a great excuse to send players on a lengthy quest to the hidden corners of the Flanaess and expand their knowledge of the setting as a result. No drow ranger running around. No Mystra. And, especially, NO Elminster! Realistically there is nothing wrong with super-NPCs. They are who the players are suppose to aspire to meet or exceed with their own characters someday. They are a measuring stick. Where FR hurts itself sometimes is the coolness factor of their NPCs is -so- intense(almost movie star-like) that they breed a feeling of inferiority in player's about their own characters, or much worse on the flip-side their popularity encourage a slew of wanna-be characters. I don't think i've ever encountered anyone in various online rp mediums that 'wanted to be like Tenser'.
#5 Mortepierre May 30, 2004 9:35:59	Originally posted by mortellan Realistically there is nothing wrong with super-NPCs. They are who the players are suppose to aspire to meet or exceed with their own characters someday. They are a measuring stick. Where FR hurts itself sometimes is the coolness factor of their NPCs is -so- intense(almost movie star-like) that they breed a feeling of inferiority in player's about their own characters, or much worse on the flip-side their popularity encourage a slew of wanna-be characters. I don't think i've ever encountered anyone in various online rp mediums that 'wanted to be like Tenser'. Ah but you misunderstand me. Nothing wrong with meeting (or exceeding) (in)famous characters such as Tenser, Evard, etc... What I am against (in my campaign anyway) is: a) Stereotypes that have been used so many times by players for their "kewlness" factor, they make me sick on sight. Example: two-swords wielding Good-aligned drow. Sorry but no. In GH, drows come (mainly) from the Vault. No good drow around for you to play. b) Gods meddling in the Prime too much/often. Example: Mystra and her Chosen Ones (not to mention her 7 daughters) c) All-powerful NPC that act as a deus ex machina to save the players' beacon whenever they do something stupid (like going in Dragotha's lair to see what a dracolich is like) OR that appear to negate your actions whenever they feel you're not playing by the rules. I know the latest incarnation of the FR setting is trying to get away from that particular problem but a certain category of players still feel that if they s**** badly enough, "someone" will appear to save the day OR that no matter how hard they try, "someone" will appear to ruin their best plans. I'll grant you GH is full of powerful NPC that try to manipulate events too but at least they are (generally) subtle about it. Flame warning: the above comment is in no way a "FR suck" rant. FR is a setting with its own flavor and I have nothing against people playing there. What I do not want is to see players try to "import" that flavor into my GH campaign.
#6 theocratissak May 30, 2004 11:36:50	Hi all- To me, Greyhawk is a Gray setting, where good doesn't always triumph over evil. Evil doesn't always win. I run my campaigns currently set in the Theocracy of the Pale. Worshiping a LG god in a LN aspect certainly is different. What the Theocracy does at times isn't always in "good's best interst, but in the best interest of the Church. IMC, we signed a treaty with Ahlissa and we attacked and took over northern Nyrond. We did this because they were weak, and as a consequence for their taking over and lording over the Pale for 100 years. Also because it is something that the Paleians have been discussing for many years. The whole Northern Alliance - with many of the northern cities of Nyrond cedeing to the Pale - finally came true. Even if you choose another location, where it isn't the gods (or at least their representative that's pulling someones strings), there are many things which show Greyhawks grayness. Greyhawk City, Hardby and Dyvers are all excellent locations. GHC is the center of the world. If the PC's are working for good, there are so many area's in which they can choose to work. If they choose to work for evil, same goes. If they work for selfishness and riches, well, what better place to be than the Gem of the Falaness? If you choose to play in Hardby (like the current campaign in which I'm a player) you have the excelllent article from Dungeon 109, but also a city which is surrounded by "grayness." Officially the city is part of Greyhawk City. But many of its citizens don't like GHC's rule over their city. So they rebel. This isn't good or bad. This isn't right or wrong. This is about freedom. Maybe you are part of the GHC militia, and you don't like those uprising in Hardby and are forced to put down the uprisiings. For us characters, some work for GHC Milita (my Son's Dwarf), while the female elf in the party (my WifeFIEND's PC), she is a noble of the city. So we have conflicted intrerests there. Dyvers is a merchant city. It competes with GHC and Hardby in everyway. The merchants of one city likely hire bandits to attack merchants of the other. It also competes with GHC for land. With GHC's greater and growing influence, citizens of the city must find ways to protect themselves. Again, it depends on which way you see the conflict and which side you're on. This to me is what makes the 3 G's: Greyhawk's Gray Greatness! Furyondy has it's constant battle with the forces of Iuz; Sea Princes are in chaos, the slaves have revolded, the Scarlet Brotherhoood is is disarry and leaving; the Pomarj is creeping in on Celene, Hardby, and Keoland (vis a vi the Ulek States); the Bandit Kingdoms are still very much the Bandit Kingdoms; and as a cleric of any faith you are still expected to spread your beliefs and wisdom to the unbellevers! Have *fun* converting fr, Kalamar, and any other Heathens! *edit: added word Fun!
#7 zombiegleemax May 30, 2004 12:23:52	The best way to introduce Greyhawk is to start a campaign. ;)
#8 Argon May 30, 2004 23:18:04	The best way to introduce any world is not to make it seem like such a big change at first. Let the players know a few key things about the world like a list of current events. then allow them to know the differences of the race they play and the feelings of religion and general practices in their area. The rest of the world will come along smoothly you will give the players a hook by throwing a little world specific infor their way . Then simple let them bite it. I have some players new too my game that have just come across a sect of follows for Iggwilv. They have no idea who she is but know the Old one as he is often cursed by many. You see what I did. I threw them a bone they are biting and when things come to fruitation they will have some nice little world specific info to draw from.
#9 hesparex May 30, 2004 23:44:55	Actually alot of good aligned Drow bug me..... I didnt go all the way through fighting Hill, Frost and Fire giants descending into the depth of Earth destroying a bastion of the corrupt Kuo- Toa. Then get zapped by mind flayers a psychotic vampire and finally try to infiltrate a Drow City assault the most unholy fane to gain entrance to the Abyss where I battled handmaidens, driders, more Drow, and finally an Avatar of the most sinister Demon Queen just so know people can get upset that before some ebon skinned Dark Elf can utter a word I kill it because there is an offhand chance it is good......... Look I have seen the city, I have seen the mechanizations of a long lived and utterly evil race, I have met the Avatar of their evil deity ( who promised vengeance) and frankly dont care if the paladin even claims they are untainted by evil. I casually remind people that alignment auras can be altered and the God Queen of the Drow doesnt forget those who have killed her servants and murdered her pets.
#10 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2004 18:40:44	WTF are you talking about?