Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 02, 2004 19:55:54	I expect this is a topic many have considered over the course of years and I would apprerciate anyone's feelings on the topic. For a new PnP campaign, I am planning on running a very non-canon WotL campaign. The Heroes of the Lance do not exist and probably won't ever exist and the thrust of the campaign and the course of the wa and the quest to stop Takhisis will be very different. It is my intention to begin the players north of Lemish, with a solid Solamnic background. When trying to integrate in the War of the Lance to the proposed campaign, I am confronted by some very stark and apparent issues and they are quite simple: How do you resolve the "surprise" attack on Qualinesti in 351 and the supposed surprise this brings to the rest of the South with a long and vigorous three year war fought in the resty of Ansalon? Silvanesti was occupied 2 years earlier and the inhabitants long since fled to the Western Isels. Nordmar is supposed to have been conquered a year earlier in 348. Kinslayer wars or not - the news of Silvanesti's occupation would have spread over Ansalon. It's not that I object to this timtable for a military campaign - its that it makes NO SENSE that the Heores of the Lance or those they are allied with would have not heard of the DragonArmies - and a LOT about the DragonArmies - in their travels. Indeed, one would think they should have encountered them already. It seems to me the ignoriance of the inhabitants of the South of the dangers presented by the DragonArmies is so improbable that it just could never happen. It's not as if Ansalon is a large continent. As we all know - even with little more than foot and horse to carry you - it's not that big a place. I would be interested in hearing how others have dealt with these issues in their campaigns and tried to resolve them logically. I would be PLEASED AS PUNCH to hear "war stories" of others experiments in non-traditional or alternative Classic Campaigns and how the issue of timing of the campaigns was dealt with.
#2 zombiegleemax Jun 03, 2004 0:40:44	Well you probably know it but I will remind anyway that the solmainc forces was quite forgotten and people hated solmanic knights...but I guess it can make the story even more interesting, when the heroes will try to get more information on their beloved organization. I guess there isnt a very logical answer to the lack of knowlege of the heroes, it is kind of impossible. I guess the only reasonable reason I can think of is that in abansina was a quite place so it didnt make much of interest in other people wars (its very typical behavior for krynn's people) In their travles (I didnt read thoes books so answer out of imagaination) You can say they didnt encounter many people. And were selfcentered on their quest. And maybe they did encounter some draconinas but they were wearing robes to conceal their indetities. I know this is not the most reasonable idea but i cant think of other...
#3 cam_banks Jun 03, 2004 0:52:53	Almost all of the settled areas in Age of Despair Ansalon were cut off from each other. It was rare that word of anything passed between cities and villages, as the wilderness was extraordinarily dangerous. None of the Companions knew Tarsis was landlocked, and it wasn't all that far away from Abanasinia (or Qualinesti for that matter). The Dragonarmies had gathered their strength in the desolate center of the Taman Busuk, recruiting mercenary companies with promises of loot and good pay, which became very competitive. Thus, it didn't get spread around too much, something you get from reading The Soulforge also as Kit secretly hooks up with various unsavory characters. It really was an insular, xenophobic and deeply distrustful world. That's a large part of why the Dragonarmies did so well initially - no organized resistance, not even from the Knights of Solamnia holed up in their castles on Sancrist. Silvanesti's fate was kept from the Qualinesti elves up until the last few months prior to the refugees arriving in Southern Ergoth because it wasn't something the Silvanesti elves wanted to talk about (and would be considered the height of embarrassment). We follow the path of the heroes in the Chronicles, and learn as they do what the world outside of their youth is really like. In many ways, this is exactly what medieval Europe was like - great stories told by those brave enough to travel into the next valley or make a pilgrimage, and not always all of it true. Cheers, Cam
#4 zombiegleemax Jun 03, 2004 1:39:01	We follow the path of the heroes in the Chronicles, and learn as they do what the world outside of their youth is really like. In many ways, this is exactly what medieval Europe was like - great stories told by those brave enough to travel into the next valley or make a pilgrimage, and not always all of it true. I'd buy that as the best available answer, but it still does not fit the facts. As for insular societies and not much travel, that is certainly true in the South, but does not appear to be true in Solamnia and the North. Palanthus remains cosmopolitan and conducts a brisk trade on the north coast. ___________ As for the Heroes... Flint was confined. Tanis in Qualinesti for the most part. (you can rationalize that) So far so good. Tas was all over Ansalon (ok - who'd believe a Kender tale? Still Ok) But Sturm was all over Solamnia; as were Raistlin and Caramon both, (as well as to the East to fight at Hope's End). And Raistlin, as we know from Soulforge and Brothers in Arms, probably DID know about it. There are some hints in DoAT too to that effect. But mostly, I think its a case of Doug Niles and Tracy Hickman putting on their wargamer hats when designing DL11 after virtually the entire series had already been written as novels and written as modules and not really thinking about the implications of a one page war summary through to its logical conclusion. It didn't have to make sense as a coherent whole. It just had to make sense in terms of players enjoying that particular game product. Not a surprise. Most of DL is written under those conditions - and still is. ______________________________ Anyways, the REAL point is this I guess: How do you rationalize the war - in terms of its length - and determine WHEN the Solamnic Knights found out about it? I appreciate there is not a clear cut answer here and any date is perhaps as good as the next, but as I see it, by the second year, surely the rumours and scouting reports have to be flying thick and fast? So much so that it seems as good as time as any to start an alternate history WotL campaign based, to start, in southern Solamnia.
#5 wolffenjugend_dup Jun 03, 2004 8:29:53	*shrugs* I don't find it improbable at all, for reasons already outlined above by Cam. If you have that big a problem with it, just change things. But I just don't think it's that big a deal... edit: ah, I didn't see the second part of your post about the location of the heroes. Hmm, I guess it is a problem if Sturm was in Solamnia and didn't know about the dragonarmies. But you've got to remember that the novels and modules weren't written at the same time so it's quite possible that inconsistencies will spring up. But if the heroes aren't playing a big role in your campaign, why does it matter what they do or do not know? Your players don't know, and that's all that matters...
#6 cam_banks Jun 03, 2004 9:34:53	Originally posted by wolffenjugend edit: ah, I didn't see the second part of your post about the location of the heroes. Hmm, I guess it is a problem if Sturm was in Solamnia and didn't know about the dragonarmies. Sturm was up north visiting Castle Brightblade (or Castle DiCaela, depending on which book you read) back in 346, when he travelled with Kitiara. The Dragonarmies didn't begin the push into Solamnia until the spring of 351 AC, and Sturm had already returned by then to Abanasinia (or was on his way back). He isn't likely to have heard more than whispers or rumors of war, the usual sort of thing one hears from passing travelers on roads or in wayside inns. Cheers, Cam