In the Rockhome thread, we were discussing the concept of a Mystaran Underdark, which we named Shadowdeep.
Here are some of the ideas for races that we came up with in that thread:
:
Elves (shadowelves and sheyallia elves)
Dwarves (with the cool gypsy clan you have)
Glaurants
Humans (Cynidiceans, Ylari/Alphatian followers of Barimoor)
Humanoids (Orcs, Bugbears, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Gnolls, Trolls, Ogres, Kobolds)
Originally posted by havard
I didn't like too many of the races from FR: Underdark, they didn't feel very Mystaran to me. Exceptions are the Trogolodytes and Minotaurs, listed under "Other races", though in Mystara these races might be more prominent in the Shadowdeep.
Trogolodytes definitely. These guys have never quite gotten their due on Mystara. Speaking of which, I seem to recall that there were lizardmen in the Known World- specifically, there were lizard men (and undead l-m) mentioned in Gaz2. I don't know if they are numerous enough to qualify as a "major race" in Shadowdeep, though.
Dark Wings (Demonic light-fearimg humanoids)
These guys should definitely go there. They are very similar to the Glaurants, and I felt they should somehow be tied together. Not sure how, though.
Garl (Strong, 10 ft tall neanderthal-like humanoids)
Rock Men
Bargdas (Twisted Goat-like Minotaurs)
These would all be good.
Genoids (Boulder Like creatures)
I always liked these guys from X5. Maybe they are another of the defenses against underworld crossover in the Black Peaks region? (The ones in X5 were definitely working for the Master). They could be his personal army, guarding the borderlands of the underrealms.
Hivebrood
I'd like to see something done with these guys.
Hook Beasts (Umber Hulks and Hook Horrors)
I don't know how viable they might be as PCs- they seem a little too powerful and dumb to be suited to the "adopt a class" concept. Then again, they'd make some interesting PCs (Hook Horror Druid?)
Sabreclaws (They will need to be modified to be used)
This would be interesting. I always wondered why they included the Sabreclaw in the CC, when they were so specifically created for a single purpose (and module) without changing the text to "generalize" them some more.
Tabi (another PC3 race which could need some more space)
I don't know. The tabi always seemed to be more of an "open skies" kind of race. I'd think living in caves would really restrict their flying quite a bit. I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional one as a nagpa familiar, but I don't think they'd be very common.
Aranea
Definitely. Gaz13 makes mention of a group of Aranea in the Spider Woods near Losetrel, so they're definitely a presence.
Dusanu (Rot Fiends)
These guys should be pretty prominent in certain areas. I think, with their hit dice (9!) they shouldn't be a major race, but they are intelligent, so I think they should be a major "evil" or threat at least, and not just mindless sporing zombie types.
Along those lines, I think it would be cool to create (or find, though I can't think of any offhand) a plant/fungus race for PCs to play in Shadowdeep.
Oh- you might also add the Fungoid to this list, as well.
All of those ideas sound good. Also add the creatures from Gaz13- the lavafish (I actually did a writeup for that; I'll post it later), the Boneless, the Skinwing, and the Skitterling. Gaz13 also suggests making some "underground adapted" versions of normal creatures- albino bats, blind fish, etc.- so we could always do some of those.
Dark Brownies - perhaps serving the Mordigwerg and the Shadow-Elves. Evil Redcaps are more common here than it the Sunlit Realm.
Leprechauns - probably in touch with the UnderYord gnomes.
Pixies & Sprites - I don't think so. Perhaps some in the fungi-forests of the Shadow-Elves? Pale, serious, friends of spiders and Aranea?
Pooka - Yes. In forms of underground animals: rats etc.
Dark Sidhe.
Walldrakes - an underground version of drakes. Grey in color. Can shapechange into Shadow-Elves and Under-gnomes. These drakes are more integrated into fey society than their above-ground kin.
The gypsy dwarves have much contact with the Annwn court. As well as some Shadow-Elves clans, whose fungi-forests host the dark fairies.
They are a race of pacifistic elves who live deep underground - much deeper than the drow. They were cowards that fled the battle between Corellon Larethian and Llolth and have lived an exiled existence far in the earth for millenia.
I always loved that enigmatic race but never really had an opportunity to use them. They are naturally in tune with the elements of earth and have many powers such as 'meld into stone' at will. (which they use to escape hostilities - they are very shy).
Perhaps the Rockseer elves were once shadowelves but were exiled for cowardice and are now just a legend in Shadowdeep?
I'd like to work more with this idea, if people like it!
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
Trogolodytes definitely. These guys have never quite gotten their due on Mystara. Speaking of which, I seem to recall that there were lizardmen in the Known World- specifically, there were lizard men (and undead l-m) mentioned in Gaz2. I don't know if they are numerous enough to qualify as a "major race" in Shadowdeep, though.
I agree, The Torgolodytes were in the Red Box, but never got used much. I gotta check the details in Gaz2, but to me it sounds like enough to justify giving them a major presence. Anything that can be tied to canon has some authority IMO.
Dark Wings:
These guys should definitely go there. They are very similar to the Glaurants, and I felt they should somehow be tied together. Not sure how, though.
I agree, they are sort of similar aren't they? What if they are related to Glaurants and used as servants of these? I gotta compare their stats though, but it might make sense. Perhaps the Glaurants like to send out the Dark Wings at night to gather food (ie halflings).
Garl, Rockmen, Barghas
These would all be good.
All these races could use some expansion. If we include a minotaur kingdom (see below), the Bargha could be presented as a rivalling kingdom to the minotaurs, as the two races IIRC hate eachother. I think James Mishler made a reference to the Rockmen in his writeup on the Isle of Dawn Stone Folk, might be something we can steal there. I'm up for any ideas on the Garls. I think they fit in there though, but im not sure how to make the best use of them.
Genoids
I always liked these guys from X5. Maybe they are another of the defenses against underworld crossover in the Black Peaks region? (The ones in X5 were definitely working for the Master). They could be his personal army, guarding the borderlands of the underrealms.
We could definately place them in that part of the Shadowdeep (Western). I doubt that they would all be allied with the master, since they look sort of innocent. Perhaps some of their clans were tricked into an alliance by the Master? They could have some dealings with the Grakkhalia if we put them in that region. Also, they probably have some connection to the Rockmen (above).
Hivebrood
I'd like to see something done with these guys.
I seem to recall something about a Hivebrood colony below Thyatis city. Cant remember if this is official, a fan creation, or even something from my own campaign though...
Hook Horror and Hulker:
I don't know how viable they might be as PCs- they seem a little too powerful and dumb to be suited to the "adopt a class" concept. Then again, they'd make some interesting PCs (Hook Horror Druid?)
These creatures are powerful and stupid. I think the Hulker might be created as a separate creature from the Umber Hulk and made into a lesser variant of that creature. These creatures might be random predators, but may also be used as servants by Renegade Shadow Elves, Deep Glaurants, Barimoor, or Morigswergs. Hook Horror Druids, eh? Hmmm....
Sabreclaws:
This would be interesting. I always wondered why they included the Sabreclaw in the CC, when they were so specifically created for a single purpose (and module) without changing the text to "generalize" them some more.
Here is an idea:
Sabreclaws, Wild
Sabreclaws encountered above ground are often summoned creatures, created from water by powerful Wizards. However, the Wild Sabreclaws are a different breed from those creatures. Legend says that the Nithian Wizard who originally invented the Create Sabreclaw Spell, finally improved upon the spell and released his creations into the caves below Nithia. Others say the Immortal Pflarr was the one who set the Sabreclaws free. Unlike normal Sabreclaws, Wild Sabreclaws cannot transfer hit points between them. Sabreclaws are born with two normal hands, but upon reaching adulthood, male Sabreclaws undergo a ceremony in which the right hand is cut off and a sabrelike protrusion is grafted onto the maimed arm.
Sabreclaws were originally created from water and still feel a connection to that element. They often stay close to underwater lakes. Many Sabreclaw clans have been enslaved by Barimoor working as his servants. Others have been recruited by Morigswerg Wizards.
Tabi
I don't know. The tabi always seemed to be more of an "open skies" kind of race. I'd think living in caves would really restrict their flying quite a bit. I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional one as a nagpa familiar, but I don't think they'd be very common.
Fair enough. The Tabi are out. The Nagpa should be in though
Aranea:
Definitely. Gaz13 makes mention of a group of Aranea in the Spider Woods near Losetrel, so they're definitely a presence.
Also, this allows us to make the Aranea a standard race in more places than just the Savage Coast. I'm tempted to have these guys be a major force, in influce if not in numbers.
Dusanu
These guys should be pretty prominent in certain areas. I think, with their hit dice (9!) they shouldn't be a major race, but they are intelligent, so I think they should be a major "evil" or threat at least, and not just mindless sporing zombie types.
Ever since I saw the back of AC9 refer to "The Dreaded Dusanu" I had the feeling that these guys were something major. Again, perhaps simply a group of powerful individuals rather than a kingdom.
Along those lines, I think it would be cool to create (or find, though I can't think of any offhand) a plant/fungus race for PCs to play in Shadowdeep.
Oh- you might also add the Fungoid to this list, as well.
Are Fungoids the ones we need or do you want some more? Should we include Mycoids? Not really a Mystaran race and a bit silly IMO, but I guess they are always a possibility...
I like the Fungoids though. (On a side note, I am also thinking about making the mysterios ogres of Grakken forest from Thunder Rift into Fungoids. )
All of those ideas sound good. Also add the creatures from Gaz13- the lavafish (I actually did a writeup for that; I'll post it later), the Boneless, the Skinwing, and the Skitterling. Gaz13 also suggests making some "underground adapted" versions of normal creatures- albino bats, blind fish, etc.- so we could always do some of those.
Sounds groovy. Post the stats for the Lava Fish when you get the time. If anyone feels like converting some of these creatures that would be great too
Some more ideas:
More races:
Hutaaakans
Here is a new addition to the Shadowdeep. Although not canon as such, Gaz 1 suggests more Hutaakan locations. How about a Deep Hutaakan subrace living below modern day Karameikos? I’m thinking that they are using the ruins of Lavv, located below Kelvin as their current capital. They may or may not have contact with the Lost Valley. Not sure if I want to make them an actual subrace or simply a different culture of Hutaakans. I don’t care that much for subraces come to think of it, but they must have adapted to underground life somehow.
Harpies
Why not? I like the new illustrations of these creatures where they actually have hands. They were introduced as a PC race in Top Balista, and like the Nagpa I think they fit pretty well in an underground environment.
Lesser Medusae
The 3e illustrations of the Medusa are pretty cool. I was inspired to do this race from the RPG Agone, which has medusa as a PC race. The Lesser Medusa has lost its Gaze attack though, so they are simply snakelike humanoids with snakes-for-hair. Mystaran Medusae are considered earth elemental creatures, but this lesser variant should rather be considered something like a planetouched.
Gorgonnic Minotaurs
Gorgonne-like Minotaurs, these creatures, like the Lesser Medusae don’t have the power to petrify their opponents, but due to their metallic skin. What if the minotaurs of Shadowdeep capture and herd Gargonnes. They perform a special ritual in which Minotaurs are exposed to the Gorgon’s Breath. Most are turned to stone from this, but those who survive become Gorgonnic Minotaurs? There are also rumours of Tauric Gorgonnes (Minotaur/Gorgons) living among these Minotaurs. I’d place the kingdom of the Minotaurs between Cynicedia/Barimoor and the shadowelven realms, so below the lands surrounding Selenica.
Highforge
Who knows how large this Kingdom really is? Sure, Hilltopper has sworn allegiance to King Stefan, but what if he himself is only a puppet of a larger Gnome Kingdom of Deepforge? Might help explain why the gnomes are a relatively numerous race in spite of not having a real kingdom on the surface. They may have connections with the Hutaakans and the Gnomes of Underyord.
Whew, long one.
Håvard
Originally posted by Lost Woodrake
I believe these should be the races of Annwn, the underground fairy realm:
Dark Brownies - perhaps serving the Mordigwerg and the Shadow-Elves. Evil Redcaps are more common here than it the Sunlit Realm.
Leprechauns - probably in touch with the UnderYord gnomes.
Pixies & Sprites - I don't think so. Perhaps some in the fungi-forests of the Shadow-Elves? Pale, serious, friends of spiders and Aranea?
Pooka - Yes. In forms of underground animals: rats etc.
Dark Sidhe.
Walldrakes - an underground version of drakes. Grey in color. Can shapechange into Shadow-Elves and Under-gnomes. These drakes are more integrated into fey society than their above-ground kin.
The gypsy dwarves have much contact with the Annwn court. As well as some Shadow-Elves clans, whose fungi-forests host the
dark fairies.
Lots of cool ideas here Woodrake! I especially like the Gypsy Dwarf (Wanderers) connection. Fairies and dwarves hanging out eh? Might be another reason why other dwarves are a bit sceptical about the Wanderers.
So what do people think? Are the fairies of Annwn connected to the Dark Seelie Court, to Oberons court or do they represent a third party?
Originally posted by Spellweaver
Has anyone ever read the entry for the Rockseer Elves in the 2nd Edition MONSTEROUS COMPENDIUM Annual Volume Three ??
They are a race of pacifistic elves who live deep underground - much deeper than the drow. They were cowards that fled the battle between Corellon Larethian and Llolth and have lived an exiled existence far in the earth for millenia.
I always loved that enigmatic race but never really had an opportunity to use them. They are naturally in tune with the elements of earth and have many powers such as 'meld into stone' at will. (which they use to escape hostilities - they are very shy).
Perhaps the Rockseer elves were once shadowelves but were exiled for cowardice and are now just a legend in Shadowdeep?
I'd like to work more with this idea, if people like it!
Why not? Reminds me of Ekuar and his Rock Shaper companions from ElfQuest. Might be where they got the idea from. Obviously the Greyhawk references would have to be removed, but im curious to see what you'll come up with.
I sort of have a problem with the concept of pacifists in a fantasy world though. It is a violent place afterall. Shy, I can live with though.
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
So what do people think? Are the fairies of Annwn connected to the Dark Seelie Court, to Oberons court or do they represent a third party?
I like to see them as a third party. This way they can have their own specific traits. Maybe there is some inner struggle there: between Oberonists and Yagarians...
Although, if we think of the Aranea culture and its connections with Annwn - maybe there are some cultural exchanges between Annwn and the Wood Imp court?
Originally posted by havard Hivebrood
I seem to recall something about a Hivebrood colony below Thyatis city. Cant remember if this is official, a fan creation, or even something from my own campaign though...
Hello,
An early issue of Dungeon Magazine has a module in which a Hivebrood Colony is living in Specularum in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos.
The Module Areana of Thyatis deals with the opening to a vast underground realm filled with all sorts of horrors. The opening is guarded by the Gladiators.
Finally, there is another city beneath Thyatis City that is home to a vast population of Were-Rats. This was introduced in Night Howlers.
Regards and Best Wishes,
Donald Eric Kesler
Originally posted by Lucus_BoneburnerOriginally posted by havard Hivebrood
I seem to recall something about a Hivebrood colony below Thyatis city. Cant remember if this is official, a fan creation, or even something from my own campaign though...
Hello,
An early issue of Dungeon Magazine has a module in which a Hivebrood Colony is living in Specularum in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos.
the Dungeon Magazine in question is issue 13. Looking through the old MML digests to fidn that fact there seemed to be a belief that this adventure was set in Thyatis but yeah it's in Specularum.
Originally posted by havard
The Nagpa should be in though
How about an underground monastic order of Nagpas and Grey Philosophers? (Always liked them)
It could be a highly-intellectual corrupt Academy, the Great Hall of Wisdom of the Shadowdeep.
Where should it be located?
- but I allowed myself to keep running with the idea of a Nagpa University, which I named Wirrtenheid. Anyways, I'll be happy to hear comments and suggestions.