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Proxies in Sigil

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sarig_the_genie
Jun 06, 2004 10:34:25 Yesterday, I got In the Cage - A Guide to Sigil, and reading it, I noticed that proxies were allowed into the city.

I assume it must be different than in 3.x where a diety can loan a proxie a divine rank then?

What powers did the proxies have in Planescape?
#2
kuje31
Jun 06, 2004 12:06:56 They had any of the powers thier deity granted them, because in 2e it didn't take a divine rank to make proxies. That was a retcon for 3e.
#3
ripvanwormer
Jun 06, 2004 13:04:49
Originally posted by Sarig the Genie
What powers did the proxies have in Planescape?

Sometimes none, but sometimes many. Every deva and aasimon and every archon of hound rank or above was considered a proxy of one god or another.

The heroes of Greek myth were also considered proxies. Odysseus was Athena's proxy and Jason was Hera's proxy. Their primary god-granted power was the ability to exceed human limitations on multiclassing.

Some proxies were invested with a tiny piece of true divine power. The linquas of Sung Chiang are vessels of godly energy, although if they fled Gehenna to Sigil this investment was reliquished. Every deva has a divine spark that is the source of its powers. Such a small amount of true divinity was acceptable to the Lady of Pain.

In 3e there are prestige classes like Divine Agent that might be better models for what were called proxies in 2e.

A 3e-style proxy with a full divine rank probably wouldn't be allowed in the City of Doors. However, remember that gods in general were much more potent in 2nd edition, and this was why they were banned from Sigil in the first place. It's arguable that the weaker 3e gods have no reason not to be allowed in, at least the lower ranks.
#4
sarig_the_genie
Jun 06, 2004 13:21:09 Thanks for the info Rip! And I keep my gods all powerfull and unstatted (;
#5
banshee
Jun 06, 2004 15:29:37 Aren't 3E Powers relatively all-powerful already? I mean, yes, they have stats, but what reasonable character can compete? I mean, they equate at like lvl 60, don't they? And many can use Alter Reality at will. I'd run it a bit different than wish, and allow them to do whatever they want. If you want to have them turn an entire city of 12,000 into a forest of trees, then they can do it.

Maybe I'm remembering Dieties and Demigods incorrectcly..

I prefer not to have dieties have stats in any case, but it seems that at least the stats which were given are so powerful that they can do whatever they want anyways.

Or you could simply go the avenue of saying that the stats in Dieties and Demigods are simply those of the Avatar, and the true diety is much worse.

Banshee
#6
sarig_the_genie
Jun 06, 2004 15:48:00 I should've elaborated, I don't plan on having my players encountering any deities at all (:
#7
banshee
Jun 06, 2004 19:28:33
Originally posted by Sarig the Genie
I should've elaborated, I don't plan on having my players encountering any deities at all (:

I've been running my Planescape campaign from about 96 or 97 until 2004 so far, and it's been a pretty much ongoing as a story arc. Some of the characters are the same ones we had in the game back in '97.

In all that time, I think they've encountered Powers twice. And they definitely didn't fight them.

The first time, one of the characters had been slain, and the soul ended up in Hades by accident, and the characters had to cross the river into the lands of the dead and bargain with the Greek Power Hades, to get the soul to be released.

The other time, after tangling with a priest of Set, the characters met Bast/Sharess upon going to her temple in Sylvania. They ended up agreeing to serve her for a period, in payment for having slain one of the guardian cats of the temple. That servitude lasted several years.

A third character didn't necessarily meet a Power, but did have his whole platoon of Harmonium killed (and almost lost his life himself) when he unintentionally insulted Poseidon, while in a boat, on a river in Olympus. Not the brightest chap. Poseiden caused the river to sink the boat, and given these guys were all in plate armor, they didn't swim very well. He never actually interacted with Poseidon...just expressed disbelief in him.

But other than that, dieties have been strictly something they hear about, but never see. They've been mainly background dressing.

Banshee
#8
zombiegleemax
Jun 08, 2004 19:26:29 Going through On Hollowed Ground, most of the proxies look like normal characters (as in they mostly range from levels 8-20) with one or two special powers.

For example, Sehanine's proxy is a genderless teifling (Ftr 10)named Moonsilver who can become invisible at will, and is "currently learning to catch a ride on a moonbeam." and Hecate's proxy is the witch Circe (Transmuter 25) whose spells always work, even those which normally allow a saving throw.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sarig_the_genie Jun 06, 2004 10:34:25	Yesterday, I got In the Cage - A Guide to Sigil, and reading it, I noticed that proxies were allowed into the city. I assume it must be different than in 3.x where a diety can loan a proxie a divine rank then? What powers did the proxies have in Planescape?
#2 kuje31 Jun 06, 2004 12:06:56	They had any of the powers thier deity granted them, because in 2e it didn't take a divine rank to make proxies. That was a retcon for 3e.
#3 ripvanwormer Jun 06, 2004 13:04:49	Originally posted by Sarig the Genie What powers did the proxies have in Planescape? Sometimes none, but sometimes many. Every deva and aasimon and every archon of hound rank or above was considered a proxy of one god or another. The heroes of Greek myth were also considered proxies. Odysseus was Athena's proxy and Jason was Hera's proxy. Their primary god-granted power was the ability to exceed human limitations on multiclassing. Some proxies were invested with a tiny piece of true divine power. The linquas of Sung Chiang are vessels of godly energy, although if they fled Gehenna to Sigil this investment was reliquished. Every deva has a divine spark that is the source of its powers. Such a small amount of true divinity was acceptable to the Lady of Pain. In 3e there are prestige classes like Divine Agent that might be better models for what were called proxies in 2e. A 3e-style proxy with a full divine rank probably wouldn't be allowed in the City of Doors. However, remember that gods in general were much more potent in 2nd edition, and this was why they were banned from Sigil in the first place. It's arguable that the weaker 3e gods have no reason not to be allowed in, at least the lower ranks.
#4 sarig_the_genie Jun 06, 2004 13:21:09	Thanks for the info Rip! And I keep my gods all powerfull and unstatted (;
#5 banshee Jun 06, 2004 15:29:37	Aren't 3E Powers relatively all-powerful already? I mean, yes, they have stats, but what reasonable character can compete? I mean, they equate at like lvl 60, don't they? And many can use Alter Reality at will. I'd run it a bit different than wish, and allow them to do whatever they want. If you want to have them turn an entire city of 12,000 into a forest of trees, then they can do it. Maybe I'm remembering Dieties and Demigods incorrectcly.. I prefer not to have dieties have stats in any case, but it seems that at least the stats which were given are so powerful that they can do whatever they want anyways. Or you could simply go the avenue of saying that the stats in Dieties and Demigods are simply those of the Avatar, and the true diety is much worse. Banshee
#6 sarig_the_genie Jun 06, 2004 15:48:00	I should've elaborated, I don't plan on having my players encountering any deities at all (:
#7 banshee Jun 06, 2004 19:28:33	Originally posted by Sarig the Genie I should've elaborated, I don't plan on having my players encountering any deities at all (: I've been running my Planescape campaign from about 96 or 97 until 2004 so far, and it's been a pretty much ongoing as a story arc. Some of the characters are the same ones we had in the game back in '97. In all that time, I think they've encountered Powers twice. And they definitely didn't fight them. The first time, one of the characters had been slain, and the soul ended up in Hades by accident, and the characters had to cross the river into the lands of the dead and bargain with the Greek Power Hades, to get the soul to be released. The other time, after tangling with a priest of Set, the characters met Bast/Sharess upon going to her temple in Sylvania. They ended up agreeing to serve her for a period, in payment for having slain one of the guardian cats of the temple. That servitude lasted several years. A third character didn't necessarily meet a Power, but did have his whole platoon of Harmonium killed (and almost lost his life himself) when he unintentionally insulted Poseidon, while in a boat, on a river in Olympus. Not the brightest chap. Poseiden caused the river to sink the boat, and given these guys were all in plate armor, they didn't swim very well. He never actually interacted with Poseidon...just expressed disbelief in him. But other than that, dieties have been strictly something they hear about, but never see. They've been mainly background dressing. Banshee
#8 zombiegleemax Jun 08, 2004 19:26:29	Going through On Hollowed Ground, most of the proxies look like normal characters (as in they mostly range from levels 8-20) with one or two special powers. For example, Sehanine's proxy is a genderless teifling (Ftr 10)named Moonsilver who can become invisible at will, and is "currently learning to catch a ride on a moonbeam." and Hecate's proxy is the witch Circe (Transmuter 25) whose spells always work, even those which normally allow a saving throw.