Best fix for an unbalanced party? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Best fix for an unbalanced party?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jun 08, 2004 0:34:59 Well, I've been talked into (and talked myself into) DMing the KoD for my friends. There are three of them, and they are playing:

Human Rogue, later to Fighter and then Assassin: He likes Wolverine, and his character is somewhat modeled after him. Uses a shortsword, and is a squire for a Dark Knight before KoD.

Half-Silvanesti Rogue: She wants to play a former street urchin and callgirl...unique, to say the least. She's a heavy roleplayer, and will have a hatred for men. We'll see how that pans out.

Sivak Barbarian: Also looking to join the Dark Knights before the KoD, and will slowly change from CN to LG, he plans. He's an awesome, awesome roleplayer, and specifically wanted me to underpower his character so he would not have an ECL. Against all rules, I made him have no racial HP, Feats, or anything. All he has is wings, tail, the changeshape ability after a kill, and stat adjustments of +2 Str and Dex and -2 Int and Wis.

As you can see, we have effectively 1 1/2 Rogues and 1 1/2 Fighters here. What to do, what to do?

This is the first time I've ever DM'd, but I research well and learn quick, so I think I'm up for it. Should I have one or more of them play a second character, to get some sort of spellcaster there? Should I play an NPC? And if so, should I play one, or two? (Arcane and Divine.)

Any help or criticism would be greatly appreciated; we've got a great bunch of people here, and that's why I came out of the lurker status I've been in for almost a year around here.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jun 08, 2004 1:02:13 Well, I usually have always shortage of players (or don't have players to fill all the needed roles). And years of playing have proved that NPCs played by me (DM) are best option for missing characters. With NPCs played by yourself, you can in bad situtation, when players REALLY are lost, help them little. Also I like to create colorful NPCs making lots of roleplaying situations inside party, when they interact with real players.

Your group sound VERY interesting, but I would say they would do much better if they have Arcane AND Divine spell-caster with them. So, create couple of NPCs and present them as friends of player character, or bring them in during the first sessions (this also can create interesting story ideas - and you have all the power to create these stories).
#3
zombiegleemax
Jun 08, 2004 1:30:13 Yes, I'm rather looking forward to it. :D

So, should I make both an arcane and a divine caster? If so, I'll think up something cool...

The pertinent question at hand, however, is whether you honestly think I can even handle DMing AND playing two characters, as this is my first time DMing. Should I go for it? I mean, if the characters prove too difficult to play, I could always kill them off in a wonderful fashion. :D
#4
zombiegleemax
Jun 08, 2004 1:33:58 Holy schnikies...I just realized I actually registered over two years ago. That's got to be a record for extended lurkdom.
#5
wdarkk
Jun 08, 2004 2:28:08 Heh. My group will face a similar situation. Unless the DM also plays (the horror!), we'll have two players.

There are ways to reduce the vulnerability of parties below normal size. 40 point buy can be truly frightening in its ability to increase character power. Or you could consider their party 1-2 levels lower for the purposes of everything.

That said, do what you can to encourage the acquisition of the Leadership feat. It is _the_ solution for this.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jun 08, 2004 5:08:59 Question:
The pertinent question at hand, however, is whether you honestly think I can even handle DMing AND playing two characters, as this is my first time DMing. Should I go for it? I mean, if the characters prove too difficult to play, I could always kill them off in a wonderful fashion.

Answere:
DEFINITELY GO FOR IT! It's challenging for DM to guide players, make the world go around AND play couple of characters. But on the other hand, your the one that plays rest of the world also, and all the people there.

And heck, it's not that hard. Ill bet you come up with couple of nice (maybe weird) NPCs and have extra fun playing them along beign DM.
#7
karui_kage
Jun 08, 2004 17:36:27 It depends on your DM skills. Personally, for a beginning DM, I wouldn't recommend what you're suggesting. Maybe if it was two characters that were tank like, but playing casters and running combats and everything else is more than your fair share of difficult, especially at later levels. I tried to play an NPC cleric for my group at one point, while still running a good adventure and encounters, and I didn't do nearly as much justice as someone else could who devoted their entire session to playing that one cleric.

So, personally, I wouldn't want to try. It's definitely possible, but unless you're the god of DMs, I don't think that playing one caster, let alone two, is going to be easy at all. The only way I can think of to simplify it is to make them a sorcerer and mystic. That way you don't have to worry about prepping spells at least. But, in the end, even if you are great with them, it will still take you longer to play them than just an extra two players would. I'd ask around, put up notices at a local gaming store, ask your friend's friends. Once you get two more people, you'd be all set.
#8
nuke
Jun 08, 2004 18:13:07 I think it'd be a bad idea to play BOTH at the same time. It'd dull them both down as NPC's because it'd be hard to roleplay both of them, as well as everyone else. Not only that, but it will get to be a bit much in a big battle. One suggestion I would make is to create two characters, one a divine caster and one a magic user. Then, depending on what the party needs more for that particular campaign, swap them out. If you're going to do that, then the two should have a similar goal, and know each other very well so that they have no problems going in and out. Like very close friends, siblings, something like that...

The other suggestion I'd make, and probably the one that I'd recommend most is just making a cleric. The party is probably going to rely more on healing than they are on on arcane spellcasting, and with a wide variety of spells, he can do some of the utility spells that they may need. Suggest to the rogue(s) that they get Use Magic Device if they don't already, and deal out some scrolls, wands, etc. for their arcane needs. That would make it easier on you as the DM, and help to balance out the party. Then at higher levels, maybe one of the characters will want to take the leadership feat, which would help as well.
#9
talinthas
Jun 08, 2004 18:57:12 i just wonder about the wierd alignment conflicts. i'd suggest a mystic instead of a cleric, cause then you won't have to deal with divine issues =)

If you start with The Sylvan Key, though, there is a low level sorceror you run into in the brigand camp. you could always have him tag along, join the party, and become an npc caster. You don't really need a cleric, though it will help.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 08, 2004 0:34:59	Well, I've been talked into (and talked myself into) DMing the KoD for my friends. There are three of them, and they are playing: Human Rogue, later to Fighter and then Assassin: He likes Wolverine, and his character is somewhat modeled after him. Uses a shortsword, and is a squire for a Dark Knight before KoD. Half-Silvanesti Rogue: She wants to play a former street urchin and callgirl...unique, to say the least. She's a heavy roleplayer, and will have a hatred for men. We'll see how that pans out. Sivak Barbarian: Also looking to join the Dark Knights before the KoD, and will slowly change from CN to LG, he plans. He's an awesome, awesome roleplayer, and specifically wanted me to underpower his character so he would not have an ECL. Against all rules, I made him have no racial HP, Feats, or anything. All he has is wings, tail, the changeshape ability after a kill, and stat adjustments of +2 Str and Dex and -2 Int and Wis. As you can see, we have effectively 1 1/2 Rogues and 1 1/2 Fighters here. What to do, what to do? This is the first time I've ever DM'd, but I research well and learn quick, so I think I'm up for it. Should I have one or more of them play a second character, to get some sort of spellcaster there? Should I play an NPC? And if so, should I play one, or two? (Arcane and Divine.) Any help or criticism would be greatly appreciated; we've got a great bunch of people here, and that's why I came out of the lurker status I've been in for almost a year around here.
#2 zombiegleemax Jun 08, 2004 1:02:13	Well, I usually have always shortage of players (or don't have players to fill all the needed roles). And years of playing have proved that NPCs played by me (DM) are best option for missing characters. With NPCs played by yourself, you can in bad situtation, when players REALLY are lost, help them little. Also I like to create colorful NPCs making lots of roleplaying situations inside party, when they interact with real players. Your group sound VERY interesting, but I would say they would do much better if they have Arcane AND Divine spell-caster with them. So, create couple of NPCs and present them as friends of player character, or bring them in during the first sessions (this also can create interesting story ideas - and you have all the power to create these stories).
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 08, 2004 1:30:13	Yes, I'm rather looking forward to it. :D So, should I make both an arcane and a divine caster? If so, I'll think up something cool... The pertinent question at hand, however, is whether you honestly think I can even handle DMing AND playing two characters, as this is my first time DMing. Should I go for it? I mean, if the characters prove too difficult to play, I could always kill them off in a wonderful fashion. :D
#4 zombiegleemax Jun 08, 2004 1:33:58	Holy schnikies...I just realized I actually registered over two years ago. That's got to be a record for extended lurkdom.
#5 wdarkk Jun 08, 2004 2:28:08	Heh. My group will face a similar situation. Unless the DM also plays (the horror!), we'll have two players. There are ways to reduce the vulnerability of parties below normal size. 40 point buy can be truly frightening in its ability to increase character power. Or you could consider their party 1-2 levels lower for the purposes of everything. That said, do what you can to encourage the acquisition of the Leadership feat. It is _the_ solution for this.
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 08, 2004 5:08:59	Question: The pertinent question at hand, however, is whether you honestly think I can even handle DMing AND playing two characters, as this is my first time DMing. Should I go for it? I mean, if the characters prove too difficult to play, I could always kill them off in a wonderful fashion. Answere: DEFINITELY GO FOR IT! It's challenging for DM to guide players, make the world go around AND play couple of characters. But on the other hand, your the one that plays rest of the world also, and all the people there. And heck, it's not that hard. Ill bet you come up with couple of nice (maybe weird) NPCs and have extra fun playing them along beign DM.
#7 karui_kage Jun 08, 2004 17:36:27	It depends on your DM skills. Personally, for a beginning DM, I wouldn't recommend what you're suggesting. Maybe if it was two characters that were tank like, but playing casters and running combats and everything else is more than your fair share of difficult, especially at later levels. I tried to play an NPC cleric for my group at one point, while still running a good adventure and encounters, and I didn't do nearly as much justice as someone else could who devoted their entire session to playing that one cleric. So, personally, I wouldn't want to try. It's definitely possible, but unless you're the god of DMs, I don't think that playing one caster, let alone two, is going to be easy at all. The only way I can think of to simplify it is to make them a sorcerer and mystic. That way you don't have to worry about prepping spells at least. But, in the end, even if you are great with them, it will still take you longer to play them than just an extra two players would. I'd ask around, put up notices at a local gaming store, ask your friend's friends. Once you get two more people, you'd be all set.
#8 nuke Jun 08, 2004 18:13:07	I think it'd be a bad idea to play BOTH at the same time. It'd dull them both down as NPC's because it'd be hard to roleplay both of them, as well as everyone else. Not only that, but it will get to be a bit much in a big battle. One suggestion I would make is to create two characters, one a divine caster and one a magic user. Then, depending on what the party needs more for that particular campaign, swap them out. If you're going to do that, then the two should have a similar goal, and know each other very well so that they have no problems going in and out. Like very close friends, siblings, something like that... The other suggestion I'd make, and probably the one that I'd recommend most is just making a cleric. The party is probably going to rely more on healing than they are on on arcane spellcasting, and with a wide variety of spells, he can do some of the utility spells that they may need. Suggest to the rogue(s) that they get Use Magic Device if they don't already, and deal out some scrolls, wands, etc. for their arcane needs. That would make it easier on you as the DM, and help to balance out the party. Then at higher levels, maybe one of the characters will want to take the leadership feat, which would help as well.
#9 talinthas Jun 08, 2004 18:57:12	i just wonder about the wierd alignment conflicts. i'd suggest a mystic instead of a cleric, cause then you won't have to deal with divine issues =) If you start with The Sylvan Key, though, there is a low level sorceror you run into in the brigand camp. you could always have him tag along, join the party, and become an npc caster. You don't really need a cleric, though it will help.