Chromatic Dragons in DL - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Chromatic Dragons in DL

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
judicator_shekar
Jun 09, 2004 20:00:39 A freind of mine will recently be running a DL campaign which will begin at high level (15) and is expected to run well into the epic range. I am, as a result, contemplating playing a true dragon character. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with the lore surrounding green dragons (the variety I wish to play) in DL. I wish to play a dragon that has had an alignment shift and is now neutral or even good. I was just wondering whether or not this was feasible taking into account the history and society of this world.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jun 09, 2004 20:40:31 That's not exactly what I would call "inline" with how Green Dragons are Krynn are presented. On Krynn they're basically neutral or chaotic evil in the extreme with a particularly severe streak of self-infatuation, exeptional cruelty for its own sake. When they have Alternate Form, they make great villains .

If you really wanted to play one, I might suggest one that was neutral evil, and completely disaffected with The Dark Queen in whichever era you play. This character through their own fantastic powers of self-delusion might convince themself that they, on balance, are on the side of good. Sort of an anti-villain as opposed to an anti-hero.

Of course nothing says your character can't be "the exception that proves the rule." But to make it "work" you've got to incrementally, if tenuously, connect it to the reality of the setting. Starting out as an anti-villain, betrayed by the Dark Queen, and slowly slowly slowly working up to unwilling hero, and finally active force for good, might be the path of least initial resistance, which is why I suggested it.
#3
cam_banks
Jun 09, 2004 21:00:28 There was, in fact, a green dragon that changed alignment - Verden Leafglow, whose tale is partially accounted in the War of the Lance anthology. But that's such a convoluted and bizarre example that it's almost not worth going into. Krynn's green dragons are, for the most part, lawful evil and sadistic individuals with cruel and nasty temperaments. Not so good for a player character.

How about a vapor draconian?

Cheers,
Cam
#4
cam_banks
Jun 09, 2004 21:06:18 Love those double posts.
#5
talinthas
Jun 09, 2004 22:41:44 Verden Leafglow, whose story is fully told in a set of short stories and the novel _The Gully Dwarves_, is a green dragon who forsakes takhisis to become a neutral dragon, the color of leaves in autumn. Her story is probably my all time favorite dragonlance story, and i recommend it to anyone -=)

However, a dragon changing alignment like that is a giant event, and i guarantee you'll see fallout from evil. Every chromatic dragon is gonna want to hunt you down and eliminate you, and most goods will be highly suspicious.

Of course, there are always the ortholox of Taladas, wyrms that went neutral because they didnt care enough about the war of the lance...
#6
zombiegleemax
Jun 11, 2004 6:57:01 Just an aside ... but I never understood the association of the sadistic, deceitful and untrustworthy green dragons with lawful evil. I mean, red dragons tend to show more honour in Dragonlance than greens, and they're supposed to be chaotic evil!
#7
brimstone
Jun 11, 2004 9:54:27 Lawful does not equate to honorable.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jun 11, 2004 11:12:51 But it is an indicator of how well one functions in a hierarchy. And green dragons were the one chromatic dragon that was singled out for their inability to do so effectively. To say nothing on how they veiw their acknowledged Queen and responsibilities to her.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jun 11, 2004 12:38:46 What era are you playing in?
#10
brimstone
Jun 11, 2004 13:42:22
Originally posted by Insancipitory By Nature
But it is an indicator of how well one functions in a hierarchy.

True. But that wasn't what he was implying...so I didn't want to go there. I just wanted to say that a chaotic character can be just as honorable as a lawful one.

In Dragonlance, though, I agree that it seems odd that green dragons would be lawful evil at first glance, but I most certainly agree that reds are chaotic evil.
#11
valharic
Jun 11, 2004 15:09:53 In this case I equate LE with a green dragon being manipulative and controling. In that way the logical order he has is under his control and is deemed by his actions.
#12
zombiegleemax
Jun 11, 2004 20:37:22
Originally posted by Brimstone
Lawful does not equate to honorable.

True, LE does not have to mean honour as such. Still, one of the characteristics of Lawful Evil as defined in the player's handbook is adherence to a code of conduct. Also, having some conception of loyalty to one's underlings and superiors. Green dragons have never really displayed any of these traits. I've always felt that Neutral Evil would be more suitable as a standard alignment for this breed of dragon.
#13
judicator_shekar
Jun 13, 2004 12:12:42 This "Ortholox of Taladas" interests me. I recently picked up the 3.0/3.5 DL setting and cannot find anything about it. Perhaps it existed in an earlier edition (when I was playing DS and PS). Could somebody (maybe Talinthas) present more information on this ... "organization"?

Help would be much appreciated.
#14
dragontooth
Jun 13, 2004 18:58:20
Originally posted by Judicator Shekar
This "Ortholox of Taladas" interests me. I recently picked up the 3.0/3.5 DL setting and cannot find anything about it. Perhaps it existed in an earlier edition (when I was playing DS and PS). Could somebody (maybe Talinthas) present more information on this ... "organization"?

Help would be much appreciated.

From what i remember about the Ortholox Dragons of Taladas was that the evil dragons were stripped of their intelligences, and spell casting ability. Basicly they had animal intelligence. The good dragon Ortholox tended towards neutrality. Paladine didn't effect them all that much. Silver dragons alignment changed to chaotic good. And they also might of lost their spell casting ability but not sure. There was no Gold Ortholox Dragons since all Gold Dragons swore to help with the war after the dragons were allowed back into the war.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 judicator_shekar Jun 09, 2004 20:00:39	A freind of mine will recently be running a DL campaign which will begin at high level (15) and is expected to run well into the epic range. I am, as a result, contemplating playing a true dragon character. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with the lore surrounding green dragons (the variety I wish to play) in DL. I wish to play a dragon that has had an alignment shift and is now neutral or even good. I was just wondering whether or not this was feasible taking into account the history and society of this world.
#2 zombiegleemax Jun 09, 2004 20:40:31	That's not exactly what I would call "inline" with how Green Dragons are Krynn are presented. On Krynn they're basically neutral or chaotic evil in the extreme with a particularly severe streak of self-infatuation, exeptional cruelty for its own sake. When they have Alternate Form, they make great villains . If you really wanted to play one, I might suggest one that was neutral evil, and completely disaffected with The Dark Queen in whichever era you play. This character through their own fantastic powers of self-delusion might convince themself that they, on balance, are on the side of good. Sort of an anti-villain as opposed to an anti-hero. Of course nothing says your character can't be "the exception that proves the rule." But to make it "work" you've got to incrementally, if tenuously, connect it to the reality of the setting. Starting out as an anti-villain, betrayed by the Dark Queen, and slowly slowly slowly working up to unwilling hero, and finally active force for good, might be the path of least initial resistance, which is why I suggested it.
#3 cam_banks Jun 09, 2004 21:00:28	There was, in fact, a green dragon that changed alignment - Verden Leafglow, whose tale is partially accounted in the War of the Lance anthology. But that's such a convoluted and bizarre example that it's almost not worth going into. Krynn's green dragons are, for the most part, lawful evil and sadistic individuals with cruel and nasty temperaments. Not so good for a player character. How about a vapor draconian? Cheers, Cam
#4 cam_banks Jun 09, 2004 21:06:18	Love those double posts.
#5 talinthas Jun 09, 2004 22:41:44	Verden Leafglow, whose story is fully told in a set of short stories and the novel _The Gully Dwarves_, is a green dragon who forsakes takhisis to become a neutral dragon, the color of leaves in autumn. Her story is probably my all time favorite dragonlance story, and i recommend it to anyone -=) However, a dragon changing alignment like that is a giant event, and i guarantee you'll see fallout from evil. Every chromatic dragon is gonna want to hunt you down and eliminate you, and most goods will be highly suspicious. Of course, there are always the ortholox of Taladas, wyrms that went neutral because they didnt care enough about the war of the lance...
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 11, 2004 6:57:01	Just an aside ... but I never understood the association of the sadistic, deceitful and untrustworthy green dragons with lawful evil. I mean, red dragons tend to show more honour in Dragonlance than greens, and they're supposed to be chaotic evil!
#7 brimstone Jun 11, 2004 9:54:27	Lawful does not equate to honorable.
#8 zombiegleemax Jun 11, 2004 11:12:51	But it is an indicator of how well one functions in a hierarchy. And green dragons were the one chromatic dragon that was singled out for their inability to do so effectively. To say nothing on how they veiw their acknowledged Queen and responsibilities to her.
#9 zombiegleemax Jun 11, 2004 12:38:46	What era are you playing in?
#10 brimstone Jun 11, 2004 13:42:22	Originally posted by Insancipitory By Nature But it is an indicator of how well one functions in a hierarchy. True. But that wasn't what he was implying...so I didn't want to go there. I just wanted to say that a chaotic character can be just as honorable as a lawful one. In Dragonlance, though, I agree that it seems odd that green dragons would be lawful evil at first glance, but I most certainly agree that reds are chaotic evil.
#11 valharic Jun 11, 2004 15:09:53	In this case I equate LE with a green dragon being manipulative and controling. In that way the logical order he has is under his control and is deemed by his actions.
#12 zombiegleemax Jun 11, 2004 20:37:22	Originally posted by Brimstone Lawful does not equate to honorable. True, LE does not have to mean honour as such. Still, one of the characteristics of Lawful Evil as defined in the player's handbook is adherence to a code of conduct. Also, having some conception of loyalty to one's underlings and superiors. Green dragons have never really displayed any of these traits. I've always felt that Neutral Evil would be more suitable as a standard alignment for this breed of dragon.
#13 judicator_shekar Jun 13, 2004 12:12:42	This "Ortholox of Taladas" interests me. I recently picked up the 3.0/3.5 DL setting and cannot find anything about it. Perhaps it existed in an earlier edition (when I was playing DS and PS). Could somebody (maybe Talinthas) present more information on this ... "organization"? Help would be much appreciated.
#14 dragontooth Jun 13, 2004 18:58:20	Originally posted by Judicator Shekar This "Ortholox of Taladas" interests me. I recently picked up the 3.0/3.5 DL setting and cannot find anything about it. Perhaps it existed in an earlier edition (when I was playing DS and PS). Could somebody (maybe Talinthas) present more information on this ... "organization"? Help would be much appreciated. From what i remember about the Ortholox Dragons of Taladas was that the evil dragons were stripped of their intelligences, and spell casting ability. Basicly they had animal intelligence. The good dragon Ortholox tended towards neutrality. Paladine didn't effect them all that much. Silver dragons alignment changed to chaotic good. And they also might of lost their spell casting ability but not sure. There was no Gold Ortholox Dragons since all Gold Dragons swore to help with the war after the dragons were allowed back into the war.