Some problems:
Generally, magic is hard to come by and magic items even moreso. What of the wealth per level charts? With what do I fill up all those gp with? I suppose normal magic items might do, but I'm thinking of maybe another solution. Some people think DS is a magic-poor world. In this regard, I can either reduce wealth per level or increase magic item costs. Which is better? Should I keep wealth and magic item relations the same?
The PHB Bard class has magic and the athas.org bard class is weak and not really that nice. Where's the poison creation? Despite poison, I think the 3.5e Darksun bard requires more up his sleeves than the athas.org bard has. In fact, apart from the Bardic Music, the thing looks more like a Trader than a Bard.
Defiler magic seems a little stilted. Defilers were highly magic-capable beings who were to be feared in 2e DS. Where are those guys? While I like the general defiling rules in Dragon (better than the strange defiling rules in athas.org), I don't like the too-easy redemption rules. Recovering from Tainted status should be harder! I'm looking into OA Taint rules for the Maho-Tsukai. Now that looks like a Defiler. Thoughts?
I found at most they were 1 level ahead and for much of the time were the same level as everyone else.
If you look closely at the athas.org bard you may find that with the craft alchemy skill they are a little more powerfull than the previous versions. Effectivly you can create poisions to your hearts content with no restrictions except for the DR of brewing them.
The DS bard should not have Magic, if he does not get his spells from Spirits of the Land, Elemental Lords, then he is a defiler/preserver and the populace would have hunted them down.
The wealth per level charts don't work very well for DS. If you feel you must use them, then convert that wealth to trade goods, favours, contacts, property, shares in trading caravans etc.
Invest in the game world.
My advice is to cease worrying to much over the rules themselves and worry more about the campaign, where will it go, what is your ultimate end point, is there one, etc etc.
The rules simply provide a way of you, as a GM, not haveing to arbitrate every occurance within the game and concentrate on the important bits.
To show defiling in as accurate light as possible you need a few things.
1. Defiling hurts those in the defiling radius - use a moral penalty to attacks, AC, etc
2. Defiling kills off all plant life down to the microbiotic level - defiling radius and nothing able to grow for ages afterward.
3. Deflining adictive - once you are a defiler thats it you can't go back. or have some kind of Will save every time a spell is cast to avoid defiling.
4. Defiling is faster and easier to learn (never could quite figure out why this was so) - Introduce training rules and have Defilers learn how to cast spells quicker.
All except for the last I think the athas.org includes and the Piazo version either ignores or twists around upon itself.
Oh and people.
You give someone advice.
You advise someone to do or not do something.
They are different words, use them.
Originally posted by Roxlimn
Some problems:
Generally, magic is hard to come by and magic items even moreso. What of the wealth per level charts? With what do I fill up all those gp with? I suppose normal magic items might do, but I'm thinking of maybe another solution. Some people think DS is a magic-poor world. In this regard, I can either reduce wealth per level or increase magic item costs. Which is better? Should I keep wealth and magic item relations the same?
Well, I use psionic equipment to fill the Cp with. Psionics are commonplace. However, psionic items are still highly sought after, and above a certian level, each of the citys with sorcerer-kings in them and active templarates regulate the flow of psionic items in and out of the city.
I also reduce the wealth per level. All my characters start at level 4 (that's an ECL of 4, using the XPH thri-kreen and Nytcrawlr's variant Half-Giant), and have no money. If they take the feat "Freeman" at character generation, they get the starting money of a level 1 character. If they take the "Noble" Feat as well, they get money as if they were a level 2 character (based from the DMG). Without those feats, they are slaves - and slaves don't own anything (at least, not of any value).
The PHB Bard class has magic and the athas.org bard class is weak and not really that nice. Where's the poison creation? Despite poison, I think the 3.5e Darksun bard requires more up his sleeves than the athas.org bard has. In fact, apart from the Bardic Music, the thing looks more like a Trader than a Bard.
The Bard from Athas.org is modelled more after the 2e bard. There are rules not quite finished for them - like tinkercraft (which they will have, at the last time I heard about it), and of course their poisoning abilities. They shouldn't have magic, because Arcane magic is so limited anyway, and trends to be the purvue of Wizrds (and Sorcerers if you include them).
Defiler magic seems a little stilted. Defilers were highly magic-capable beings who were to be feared in 2e DS. Where are those guys? While I like the general defiling rules in Dragon (better than the strange defiling rules in athas.org), I don't like the too-easy redemption rules. Recovering from Tainted status should be harder! I'm looking into OA Taint rules for the Maho-Tsukai. Now that looks like a Defiler. Thoughts?
Actually, I think umm.... Dragon 315 has a fairly interesting Defiler design, that some people do actually like. Personally, I like the Defiler from Athas.org. With the defiler-specific Raze feats and the Arch-Defiler Prestige Class (on Jon's site), they can pack quite a whallop. Athas.org were mandated to keep the defiler and preserver balanced. They were also told that the preserver had to be the PHB Wizard (WotC still owns the licenses and can dictate how the rules are generated if they desire). And when it comes to redemption rules, I personally follow the rules from 2e still - with the redemption being excruciatingly slow, and a lot more roleplaying-based designs for it. I also have the UA's "Taint" rule in place, and defiling automatically increases this ability, and makes the character less and less tolerable to those that can help "redeem" them. It's unfortunate for my players that I don't ever tell them what their character's "Taint" score is.
Dragon Magazine #319 (Dark Sun Player's Handbook)
Dungeon Magazines #110 (Dark Dun DMG & MM 1)
Dungeon Magazine #111 (Dark Sun MM 2)
Before I get smacked for suggesting it by the athas.org people .... he did state that the athas.org version didn't appeal to him. I am just suggesting another option.
My characters still are given treasure (throughout the game) as if they are 3 levels lower than their actual ECL's. Further - While I convert Psionic items to Cp costs grom gp's, I keep metal, and magical items with their gp costs (basically, they are worth 100x their psionic equivalents), and use that as a basis for their rarity. My players are really gonna love it when they walk into a city-state, and go through "customs" and have their more powerful psionic items confiscated "for their own safety" and by decree of the sorcerer-king, as well as any magic items (they could potentially get arrested for carrying magic items in the city - to include little things, like unconcealed spellbooks).
This way, magic and psionic items are less common. Also, the characters generally have less money for things (3 levels difference can mean a lot, actually, based on the DMG table). I use the point-buy system for ability generation, and give the characters each 35 points to spend - which makes their abilities a little higher, and helps counterbalance some of the loss of magic/psionic equipment throughout the game.
And, of course, unless I am dealing with metal equipment (of any kind) or magical equipment, I convert from the PHB/DMG gp values to DS3 Cp values, on a 1 for 1 basis.
I'd also up the Skill points at each level to 6 +Int mod and give them Bardic Knowledge and no spell casting ability.
-Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by superpriest
Wow, I ended up doing almost exactly that for my new game. My PCs have 32 point buy and treasure equal to 2 levels lower than normal. I also gave them Hidden Talent as a bonus feat.
My characters get hidden talent, freeman, or psychic training (the DS3 feat) as a bonus feat at character generation. either, they get an extra power, aren't slaves (and can get money as if they are level 1 characters), or have psion as an extra favored class. Since I made noble have the prerequisite of freeman (both are background feats I use for my game), this makes it possible for non-humans to maybe have a gamesystem chance of starting as a noble. Of course, any non-human character who wants to be a noble has to draw up a good background, history and roleplay their character well. But, the system allows for it.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
On the DS bard:
No, no magic please! No magic! DS bards don't have magic and it should stay that way. Noonan's offhand put-putting of this almost threw me off the entire article series all by itself.
I was thinking of the Alchemy class skill as well, as well as the poison tables for normal use in the DMG, but they just don't square. The Craft tables do not have craft DCs for poisons, and some of those poisons are really, really nasty. Aside from that, of course, poisons in the DMG tend to be a bit general. DS bards are supposed to be masters of poison as a class ability! They should be able to do it costing nothing using materials they find commonly.
I'm thinking about a class ability that allows them to do ability damage through poison. The ability will allow them to deal and progress ability damage of their choice as well as progressing through other subtleties of poison use - timing, combination poisons and other such things.
That such abilities are beyond what is normally available in elven markets is only proper. Thinking about modelling progression under either the SA mode or Favored Enemy mode plus mods based on other class ability models.
I like Sysane's suggestions about basing it off the Assassin. Maybe level one Poison Use ability plus Poison save bonuses.
On Defilers:
I believe that the old Defilers in DS progressed faster but were inherently more powerful than Preservers, something that doesn't agree with the WotC mandate. I don't agree with it either. I don't want Defilers to dominate my games just because they're more powerful than normal.
Thinking about modeling Defiler pain on various inflict pain powers and effects. This effect alone makes Defilers more powerful in combat than normal wizards, especially if they're fighting in tandem with undead who don't feel pain.
The Maho-Tsukai prestige class in OA actually outlines a full 20 level class progression for some reason. They don't progress faster on the XP chart, since there's only one, but they are surpassingly powerful. Think of a Sorcerer without the 1 level spell progression delay. This class and the rules surrounding it can, I think be the base model for Defilers. Of course, Defilers would then have to be drawn exclusively from the Sorcerer class, or be a Sorcerer class unto its own. In fact, we might be able to do away with the Sorcerer class altogether. The Defiler could be the default spontaneous arcane caster in DS (which explains why they're called "sorcerer-kings" ;))
I like the Taint mechanic, too, that being Taint both weakens Maho-Tsukai and influences the power of their spells (rather than key-ability). The weakening mechanic I forsee is to disallow Defilers from not casting spells that defile. In order for the unusual Deflier to cast a spell that doesn't hurt plants or doesn't give her away instantly, she'll have to take a Metamagic feat with spell level costs - which would seriously crimp her style if she doesn't make defiling her main schtick.
Of course, the Defiler/Preserver spell list divide has always existed.
Preservers can become Defilers by casting a spell using the Defiling tactics in Dragon (open to all Defilers) and acquiring a Taint score, and then adopting the Defiler class, trading class level 1 for 1, as they like.
On wealth per level:
Thinking seriously about redoing the entire thing based on psionic items. xlorepdarkhelm's got a point about magic not being common, but psionics being more common. Ultimately, the problem here would be the crystal requirements of the various psionic items, especially the weapons, but I suppose I could substitute obsidian for that.
I don't like what athas.org has done with the weapons. Given the quality of native weapons in there that don't have to be done with metal, I don't see why anyone in DS would be particularly impressed with an iron or metal weapon, apart from the cost. It would then function more like jewelry than like any real advantage. I prefer the Dragon's method of seriously weakening weapons (the lower armor should about even it out) but a -2 on damage seems a bit much.
Most people seem to like lower item and cp count, but I'm worried about CR relationships if I tinker around with it too much. I don't want to have to playtest each monster all over again. Monks and Psions will tend to have greater advantages, too. So I don't think I'll be lowering cp count just yet. That works in 2e, but I'm not so sure it'll work as well in 3.5e without major changes, especially regarding the armor class/BAB ratios. Giving classes Defense Bonuses might lessen the need for that many items, and it makes wearing less armor preferrable.
On wild talents:
The 2e DS characters always had wild powers and I like to account for that in 3.5e without having to manage a great deal of paperwork. Offhand, I'm thinking about the hidden talent feat, or allowing characters to gestalt Wilder classes after taking a -1 ECL penalty (possibly -2). Essentially, they take their first level of Wilder and progress from there. Still thinking about whether I'd allow multiclassing later on to progress to gestalts and the ECL required for gestalting to work with normal characters.
Hidden Talent works, too, but I'd prefer for characters to have this feat for free at first level. The Dragon solution sounds attractive, too, but I'm a little leery of uniform wild talents within races. The point of a wild talent is that it's wild. Not everyone has it and it's not the same for any two people except by coincidnce. Requiring average to middling Charisma for a free Hidden Talent feat seems alright. No more dumping Cha! Don't know about Closed Mind, though.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Is it a WoTC book.
Are you refering to the Arms and Equipment Guide?
Otherwise, could you point me in the right direction.
Originally posted by Roxlimn
On wealth per level:
Thinking seriously about redoing the entire thing based on psionic items. xlorepdarkhelm's got a point about magic not being common, but psionics being more common. Ultimately, the problem here would be the crystal requirements of the various psionic items, especially the weapons, but I suppose I could substitute obsidian for that.
Well, the XPH has the material rues for crystal. Personally, I don't see any problem with including Crystal into the mix of materials. It's not metal, and generally some form of crystal exists in abundance in various deserts.
[]bI don't like what athas.org has done with the weapons. Given the quality of native weapons in there that don't have to be done with metal, I don't see why anyone in DS would be particularly impressed with an iron or metal weapon, apart from the cost. It would then function more like jewelry than like any real advantage. I prefer the Dragon's method of seriously weakening weapons (the lower armor should about even it out) but a -2 on damage seems a bit much.[/b]
I actually like what Athas.org did - Metal weapons, on Athas, in the flavor of the setting, are shown to be things that people would prefer to hold onto and possess, not something they use. They are valuable for the metal in them. And what Athas.org has done is provide a list of weapons unique to Athas, that helps keep it independent, as well as to make them attractive to people more. I don't generally have anything metal be available to people - non-psionic (or magic) metal items can actually end up being more expensive than non-metal psionic ones.
Most people seem to like lower item and cp count, but I'm worried about CR relationships if I tinker around with it too much. I don't want to have to playtest each monster all over again. Monks and Psions will tend to have greater advantages, too. So I don't think I'll be lowering cp count just yet. That works in 2e, but I'm not so sure it'll work as well in 3.5e without major changes, especially regarding the armor class/BAB ratios. Giving classes Defense Bonuses might lessen the need for that many items, and it makes wearing less armor preferrable.
Well, the CR adjustment is why I boost the point-buy amount to 35. This actually does a good job balancing the equasion. And I use Defense Bonuses, Armor Damage Reductions (using the rules for both of the former from Star Wars, not UA), Vitality/Wound Points, and a slew of other rules variants for my games.
On wild talents:
The 2e DS characters always had wild powers and I like to account for that in 3.5e without having to manage a great deal of paperwork. Offhand, I'm thinking about the hidden talent feat, or allowing characters to gestalt Wilder classes after taking a -1 ECL penalty (possibly -2). Essentially, they take their first level of Wilder and progress from there. Still thinking about whether I'd allow multiclassing later on to progress to gestalts and the ECL required for gestalting to work with normal characters.
Hidden Talent works, too, but I'd prefer for characters to have this feat for free at first level. The Dragon solution sounds attractive, too, but I'm a little leery of uniform wild talents within races. The point of a wild talent is that it's wild. Not everyone has it and it's not the same for any two people except by coincidnce. Requiring average to middling Charisma for a free Hidden Talent feat seems alright. No more dumping Cha! Don't know about Closed Mind, though.
Well, all my races are "Naturally Psionic", and have 1 power point, as well as access to psionic feats, representing a variation on Wild Talents. The Hidden Talent is for those who are a little more powerful.
This Weapons and Armour book.
My bad. It is the Arms and Equipment Guide.
Its has a huge list of poisons with DC to craft them and the costs to do so.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Unfortunately, I don't have the Arms and Equipment Guide and have no plans to acquire it.
Secondly, I prefer for my DS bards to be able to craft their poisons without cost, out of common materials much like they did in 2e.
Thirdly, I want tighter control over what the DS bard can do with his poisons.
Towards these ends, I think I shall prefer a level determined poison type progression, much like bardic music, but pertaining to poison.
On crystal and weapons:
These things are tied together. From what I can remember of 2e Darksun play, the point was that having no metals makes most weapons and armors poorer, not that you had to call your nonmetal good-as-axe-equivalent a certain funky name. While I appreciate the presence of native weapons, native weapons that are outright better than the nonmetal weapons that are already around (stone axes and bone swords) misses the point, I think.
In line with this, crystal becomes a problem because crystal is every bit as good as metal when damage is concerned. If crytstal is available, pretty soon, every weapon that was supposed to be made of metal is crystal instead and does just as much damage as before. I suppose this might work from the standpoint of the funky named axes and swords, but I don't want my campaign to become D&D-with-funky-sounding-weapon-names. I want my players to want metal for what it does, not simply because they can haul cash better in metal form.
I seem to remember, too, xlorepdarkhelm that metal in Athas is valued more for its value as a rare mineral, but also that metal weapons armors were generally far and away better at what they did than the normally available weapons, even the funky sounding ones. I want my players to appreciate a metal sword because it's a superior weapon, not that it lets them carry spare cash more conveniently.
While the modified hardness/hp are certainly a great balancing point, once you get into spare weapons/psionic weapons, this gap largely vanishes, especially if you consider that most nonmetal weapons would have to be psionic in order to match what ceramics it takes to secure a metal one. Can't have that happening.
Eventually, I suppose most of the mid to higher level players in my campaign would be adventuring with some sort of ancient metal weapon (because those things are superior weapons), but I think that such trappings are just appropriate for high-level prestigious characters. They should be able to get their hands on some bronze, if they're such hotshots.
Thirdly, I want tighter control over what the DS bard can do with his poisons.
Towards these ends, I think I shall prefer a level determined poison type progression, much like bardic music, but pertaining to poison.
I prefer for my DS bards to be able to craft their poisons without cost, out of common materials much like they did in 2e.
The level poison type progression I use is that they get 1 poison type (players choice) per rank they have in craft poison.
As for cost, it doesn't cost to much to make the weaker poisons on the list and secondly I wouldn't want my players being able to make the sicker/stronger poison types on a daily basis.
The higher cost poisons would deter that. You could also make the costs in ceramic or silver instead of gold.
I feel that the bard should pay for making poisons you can waive this if you like, but its for balance issues. Look at it this was. Spell casters have to buy/use spell components. Why shouldn't Bards for poison?
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
The way I see it, spellcasters don't have to pay at all for their spells. A bard's poisons, if in line with the powers they are losing from the spell loss, should not cost an undue amount of money, or be selectively usable based on locality - i.e. - it should cost nothing and be readily available anywhere - as it was in 2e.
As I said, I don't have the Arms and Equipment Guide so I'm using the Prevenom and Poison spells to guide me in determining how powerful a poison bards should be able to create and use on a regular basis.
In addition, to add to the spellcasting repertoire ripped from their melee and general combat prowess, I feel that it's appropriate to allow them to coat their weapons either with "sticky" poison that lasts longer on the weapon, or allow them to coat weapons without risk within combat, as a swift or move-equivalent action, depending on the poison used.
A bard is going to be stock piling on posion behind the scenes in many cases anyhow (i.e. between adventures). So, it wouldn't be a huge deal to have them make a DC craft poison check picking from their repertoire of posion (one poison type per rank in craft).
The PrC bard I'm using also has the death and sneak attack abilities of the Assassin.
If your strictly going to have a bard as a core class I'd might consider letting bards make poison for free. However I think bard is better suited as a PrC considering that the Athasian version of bard is nothing like its core bard counter part.
--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Roxlimn
I seem to remember, too, xlorepdarkhelm that metal in Athas is valued more for its value as a rare mineral, but also that metal weapons armors were generally far and away better at what they did than the normally available weapons, even the funky sounding ones. I want my players to appreciate a metal sword because it's a superior weapon, not that it lets them carry spare cash more conveniently.
While the modified hardness/hp are certainly a great balancing point, once you get into spare weapons/psionic weapons, this gap largely vanishes, especially if you consider that most nonmetal weapons would have to be psionic in order to match what ceramics it takes to secure a metal one. Can't have that happening.
Of course, you're missing the fact that metal weapons are rare as hell. As such, raising the price of metal weapons like I did only helps point out this fact. It doesn't mean they carry around more money convineiently. And why is it a problem that non-metal weapons would have to be psionic in order to match what money it takes to secure a metal one? That just translates to nonmetal weapons being a damned fair share more common than any metal ones. In my campaigns - if any characters, of any level, even see a metal weapon, they consider it a cherished experience. Not something that occurs enough that they would consider the metal weapon a convinient way to carry their money.
Metal is a superior material - but it's so *******ed rare - according to the setting material period (except for Paizo.... which like many things, horrifically got this wrong) - that non-metal weapons are more than just the established norm - they are, for all intents and purposes, what there is.
I'm missing the fact that metal weapons are rare? Whatever gave you that idea? The problem isn't that metal weapons are rare, the problem is, if native nonmetal weapons are already almost as good as metal ones anyway, why would anyone give a rat's tail about how rare this useless thing is? Metal has to be significantly better than wood or stone weapons or the entire metal lack atmosphere gives way to alternate weapons that are just as good atmosphere. I can see it heading that way with crystal weapons.
I'm not against increased prices for metal weapons. I'm all for it. I'm not for nonmetal strange weapons that do just as much damage as metal ones.
The problem with the psionic weapons (crystal ones mostly) is that they're almost as good as metal ones without psionic enhancement. With psionic enhancement, they provide a great deal more oomph for the same cost. In such a scenario, I can't see any player wanting a metal weapon other than to carry gold with.
Besides, metal isn't so rare on Athas that it's rarer than magic in normal campaigns. Most people on Athas have heard of metal, and they know for sure that it makes for good weapons. Some major NPCs have metal weapons, even, and I'm fairly sure that most Elven tribe leaders have their cache of metal weapons (the Sun Swords of the Clearwater tribe come to mind easily). So no, I don't want to make metal weapons such a rarity among my PCs that they'll treat seeing one as a major campaign event. Tyr itself produces iron and at least a few smiths in Tyr are conversant with making weapons out of it.
Thus, I don't agree that nonmetal weapons are "all there is". Not at all. I'm even basing this on setting material. Metal weapons are indeed available on Athas. Much more available than Diamond weapons in normal campaigns anyway. I suppose Adamantite would be a good way to price Iron in Dark Sun campaigns, and it even serves much the same niche - tough good metal that splinter other weapons to shreds - but I won't feature bumpkin PCs that goggle their eyes at metal weapons. Nosiree.
Succintly, I want metal weapons better and rarer than the normal stone and wood weapons, but at the same time, I want them usable and desirable in a mechanical sense. I want to have metal weapons in PC hands, eventually, anyway.
So no, I don't want to make metal weapons such a rarity among my PCs that they'll treat seeing one as a major campaign event.
I agree with the above and just about everything in your post. Metal is not that rare, Xlorep, but it should be better.
In my campaign, metal weapons basically work like Paizo's blood obsidian. A metal (iron) trikal does +1 damage, and a masterwork metal (steel) alhulak does +1 to attacks and damage.
My only question of late has been with pricing. I have been using the old "metal items cost 100 times the Cp cost of nonmetal items" rule, but the flat 2,000 Cp of blood obsidian might be better. It works for game balance, though it's not as correct logically.
The craft skill reads "Craft check represents one week's work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the results X the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. If result x the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you've completed the task in one-half or one third the time. Other multipules of the DC reduce the time in the same manner)".
What if a bard treated the actual cost of poison in sp or ceramic rather than gp (i.e. posion normally costs 75 gp, bard treats it as if it were 75 sp) for purposes of crafting posion. This would represent the bard's mastery in poison making and would make it in half (if not quicker in the case of ceramic) the time.
Thoughts, comments, insults?
---Sysane, The Terror of Urik
Originally posted by Roxlimn
xlorepdarkhelm:
I'm missing the fact that metal weapons are rare? Whatever gave you that idea? The problem isn't that metal weapons are rare, the problem is, if native nonmetal weapons are already almost as good as metal ones anyway, why would anyone give a rat's tail about how rare this useless thing is?
The answer is the hardness. Why you want a metal sword that does the same amount of damage than another athasian one? Because the metal is more resistant.
Originally posted by Grummore
The answer is the hardness. Why you want a metal sword that does the same amount of damage than another athasian one? Because the metal is more resistant.
Plain simple. It ties in with Sundering attempts, making them more difficult (and easier for you!), and if you adapt a homebrew weapon breakage system (like many have) the hardness of each weapon can be compared to increase the chances of a stone or bone weapon to break upon a iron/bronze/steel one, or even worst, a dwarven steel one (i.e. adamantine).
Think of all the instances in the Prism Pentad when exceptionaly well crafted inferior weapons, probably masterwork items, broke upon the metal weapons wielded by Rikus and Neeva...
Again, crystal is only slightly less tough than Iron is. Many Athasian monsters don't even have the Sunder feat, although I can appreciate that many might make the attempt anyway, if the material were as easy to break as wood or bone.
According to the Dragon article, no bladed weapon can be made of wood, and many weapons are made of stone or bone anyway, though both Wood and Stone/Bone weapons have the same price anyway. One would think that they might have included some availability rules to enhance the desperate feel of the world and to make sense of why you would ever want a wood weapon in place of a stone or bone one.
While I fully agree that Wooden greatswords and scimitars are absolutely ridiculous, I can't see why a wooden spear should be that much less effective than a bone or stone one, especially if you use treated hardwoods for the point.
If you treat Iron as so expensive as to equal a psionic weapon, then the values for hardness and hitpoints pretty much even out, especially for bone items. Assuming a -1 default modifier for bone weapons plus the listed hardness and hitpoints, a psionic bone weapon would be superior to an Iron one in terms of hitpoints and DR penetration, unless I retool many creatures to have DR/metal.
Even if I were to adopt a homebrew weapon breakage system (and I'm not sure that I do), the bone and stone weapons are mechanically ahead due to sheer price. Clearly, it seems to me, it makes more and more sense to just tax the stone/bone/wood weapons a little bit and make Iron uber - a lot like adamantine.
Thus, wood and stone and bone weapons, even psionic ones, would be vastly inferior in terms of general toughness, durability, and sundering power, while still being more or less actually effective as weapons.
Of course, I have no access to the Prism Pentad, and from what little I've read of it, I don't know if I want to subject myself to such an experience.
What I'd really like to know are these dwarven steel references and the strange blood obsidian written in Dragon. Where is dwarven steel first referenced and what's the treatment? Would my interpretation differ really so much from canon if I do away with both these things?
superpriest:
Actually, I'm highly tempted to use Adamantine rules for the Iron weapons. Those break down cost based on weapon and are more or less balanced for tougher weapons. I imagine that in a normal campaign, Adamantine pretty much rules the roost as far as Sundering is concerned, so the parallels are at least that good.
On the bard:
Actually, Sysane, I think you should convert the cost from gp in the Arms and Equipment guide to CP anyway as the economics generally works that way. There's no reason to believe that poisons would be as rare as metals in Athas so poisons should scale just like other nonmetal commodities.
I'll be sticking with my poison progression tables, though.
unless I retool many creatures to have DR/metal
There actually are many creatures with DR/metal.
One of the important things when it comes to metal weapons is not just durability, sharpness or balance. It is repairability, a crystal, bone, obsidian etc weapons cannot be repaired to the same degree a metal weapons. Even if a metal weapon is broken in half it can be re-forged and built into a new weapon, any of the others, once they break or lose chips out of a cutting edge cannot be brought back to normal to the same degree as a metal weapon can.
I think I like felixmeister's suggestion that modifies "regular" weapons to be less repairable than Iron or Steel ones. I'm currently patterning metal weapons to be Adamantium-like and Crystal weapons to be Mithril-like (lighter) as well as "good as metal" on the damage and to-hit front.
Thanks for all the help, everyone. More suggestions are always welcome.