Greyhawk and Blackmoor - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Greyhawk and Blackmoor

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jun 13, 2004 3:39:46 Any relation?
#2
Mortepierre
Jun 13, 2004 3:57:26 Yes and no.

The "original" Blackmoor campaign was certainly not set in GH. If anything, it belongs on Mystara, aka the "Known World" (though even that link was added only afterwards and not from the start).

Some elements were introduced in GH (Blackmoor, the "city of the gods", etc..), though I don't recall by whom. Methink it was more of a way to "link" campaigns than anything else but don't quote me on it.

I always found it odd but given it occupies such a little corner of GH, it doesn't matter much.
#3
Greyson
Jun 13, 2004 15:23:05
Originally posted by Mortepierre
The "original" Blackmoor campaign was certainly not set in GH.

While I certainly do not know the details of the relationship between Blackmoor and Greyhawk (or between Gygax and Arneson), I agree with Mortepierre. The map of the Northlands in DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor does not at all conform to the geography of Blackmoor in the northern Flanaess. But then, the wizards of Thonia effected some kind of cataclysm that changed the climate and face of the Northlands. And, text in DA1 reads that the Blackmoor in the adventure occurs three-thousand years before any other known world - including Hyboria. DA1 also indicates the Egg of Coot, the City of the Gods and the ubiquitous Duchy of Ten.

Gygax lists some of the elements above in the 1983 Greyhawk Gazetteer. So, I guess with some adjustments to the DA1-4 series Blackmoor can be reconciled to Greyhawk.

But, does anyone have more regarding the history surrounding the DA1 Blackmoor and the GH Blackmoor? DA1 came out in 1986 - three years after the 1983 Gazetteer. Arneson seems to have just asserted his setting in DA1 without regard to the Blackmoor n the Flanaess, which is okay - it is his wrold, after all. And granted, Gygax only gave the one in the Flanaess two paragraphs. It seems like the two men were not communicating.
#4
Greyson
Jun 13, 2004 15:24:18 Double (your pleasure) post. My first one ever. *lament*

#5
mortellan
Jun 13, 2004 15:48:25 For anyone interested Arneson has put out a new book on Blackmoor, it looks great.

http://www.goodman-games.com/4500preview.php
#6
zombiegleemax
Jun 13, 2004 16:37:49 Dave Arneson started running his Blackmoor campaign in 1969 or 1970. He was using a combination of rules from other games and some new ones. Chainmail was one of the games he mined for rules so he invited Gary Gygax and a few others from Lake Geneva to come up and check out the new game. Gygax created his first PC, the fighter Yrag, and adventured in Blackmoor. He then went home and begin writing the original D&D rules, and started his own Greyhawk campaign with some Blackmoor references thrown in as a homage to Dave and his Blackmoor campaign.
Gygax and Arneson were partners at first, and the first two supplements for the original D&D games were called Greyhawk and Blackmoor. Then Dave and TSR/Gary had a falling out. Dave then released Blackmoor as the First Fantasy Campaign in the late 70s, and the Greyhawk folio was released in 81. Then later in the 80s Dave brough Blackmoor back to TSR. Instead of starting a new campaign world line, Blackmoor was placed in Mystara. Since it didn't mesh with the setting as is, the story about it being thousands of years in the past was created.
Now Dave is re-releasing Blackmoor on his own with no connection to any TSR world.
Scott
#7
Greyson
Jun 13, 2004 17:42:39 Cool, thanks for the link, Mortellan. I jnew about the Arneson project, but I di dnot know it was so close to release - September of this year.

And thanks, ScottyG, for the notes. Arneson briefly discusses Blackmoor in Dragon #320. But, he did not go into specifics.

I plan on investing in the d20 Blackmoor from Zeitgeist - mostly because I am curious. I have the original DA series, but I have not opened them in twenty years. The only on I ever GMed was DA2 Temple of the Frog.

Thanks again, fellas.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jun 13, 2004 18:11:44 Ditto- thanx for the info!
#9
Mortepierre
Jun 14, 2004 2:24:44 Funny. Nearly every DM who gave the old Blackmoor campaign a try did so by running DA2. Got to love the killer frogs :D

For a (related) good laugh, check this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 13, 2004 3:39:46	Any relation?
#2 Mortepierre Jun 13, 2004 3:57:26	Yes and no. The "original" Blackmoor campaign was certainly not set in GH. If anything, it belongs on Mystara, aka the "Known World" (though even that link was added only afterwards and not from the start). Some elements were introduced in GH (Blackmoor, the "city of the gods", etc..), though I don't recall by whom. Methink it was more of a way to "link" campaigns than anything else but don't quote me on it. I always found it odd but given it occupies such a little corner of GH, it doesn't matter much.
#3 Greyson Jun 13, 2004 15:23:05	Originally posted by Mortepierre The "original" Blackmoor campaign was certainly not set in GH. While I certainly do not know the details of the relationship between Blackmoor and Greyhawk (or between Gygax and Arneson), I agree with Mortepierre. The map of the Northlands in DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor does not at all conform to the geography of Blackmoor in the northern Flanaess. But then, the wizards of Thonia effected some kind of cataclysm that changed the climate and face of the Northlands. And, text in DA1 reads that the Blackmoor in the adventure occurs three-thousand years before any other known world - including Hyboria. DA1 also indicates the Egg of Coot, the City of the Gods and the ubiquitous Duchy of Ten. Gygax lists some of the elements above in the 1983 Greyhawk Gazetteer. So, I guess with some adjustments to the DA1-4 series Blackmoor can be reconciled to Greyhawk. But, does anyone have more regarding the history surrounding the DA1 Blackmoor and the GH Blackmoor? DA1 came out in 1986 - three years after the 1983 Gazetteer. Arneson seems to have just asserted his setting in DA1 without regard to the Blackmoor n the Flanaess, which is okay - it is his wrold, after all. And granted, Gygax only gave the one in the Flanaess two paragraphs. It seems like the two men were not communicating.
#4 Greyson Jun 13, 2004 15:24:18	Double (your pleasure) post. My first one ever. lament
#5 mortellan Jun 13, 2004 15:48:25	For anyone interested Arneson has put out a new book on Blackmoor, it looks great. http://www.goodman-games.com/4500preview.php
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 13, 2004 16:37:49	Dave Arneson started running his Blackmoor campaign in 1969 or 1970. He was using a combination of rules from other games and some new ones. Chainmail was one of the games he mined for rules so he invited Gary Gygax and a few others from Lake Geneva to come up and check out the new game. Gygax created his first PC, the fighter Yrag, and adventured in Blackmoor. He then went home and begin writing the original D&D rules, and started his own Greyhawk campaign with some Blackmoor references thrown in as a homage to Dave and his Blackmoor campaign. Gygax and Arneson were partners at first, and the first two supplements for the original D&D games were called Greyhawk and Blackmoor. Then Dave and TSR/Gary had a falling out. Dave then released Blackmoor as the First Fantasy Campaign in the late 70s, and the Greyhawk folio was released in 81. Then later in the 80s Dave brough Blackmoor back to TSR. Instead of starting a new campaign world line, Blackmoor was placed in Mystara. Since it didn't mesh with the setting as is, the story about it being thousands of years in the past was created. Now Dave is re-releasing Blackmoor on his own with no connection to any TSR world. Scott
#7 Greyson Jun 13, 2004 17:42:39	Cool, thanks for the link, Mortellan. I jnew about the Arneson project, but I di dnot know it was so close to release - September of this year. And thanks, ScottyG, for the notes. Arneson briefly discusses Blackmoor in Dragon #320. But, he did not go into specifics. I plan on investing in the d20 Blackmoor from Zeitgeist - mostly because I am curious. I have the original DA series, but I have not opened them in twenty years. The only on I ever GMed was DA2 Temple of the Frog. Thanks again, fellas.
#8 zombiegleemax Jun 13, 2004 18:11:44	Ditto- thanx for the info!
#9 Mortepierre Jun 14, 2004 2:24:44	Funny. Nearly every DM who gave the old Blackmoor campaign a try did so by running DA2. Got to love the killer frogs :D For a (related) good laugh, check this.