Perhaps we should be fortunate that WotC is leaving Mystara alone, leaving it to the fans to develop it further?
Havard
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Think you're pretty safe unless WotC suddenly has an interest in the old basic adventures like Isle of Dread or something like that. Otherwise, I have a hard time envisioning a core product that'd be helped by revisiting Mystara.
Yes, I dont see Mystara showing up in a Core Product either. Still, I would like to see Mystara stuff appearing somewhere (Dragon
or other), but if so it needs to be done with the proper respect.
I didn't think the Mystara stuff in Dragon 315 and the later issue was too bad. It just wasn't particularily good, or particularily interestin. The Red Curse conversion was useful though, even though I'm thinking of returning to the orgininal VotPA version of the Red Curse, instead of the Red Steel variant.
Havard
However, see the Epic Handbook for some Mystara monsters, that in my opinion, are just awful conversions. The blackball and the brain collector. *shrug*
Every now and then other Mystara beasties appear for conversions. The bhut was in the new Fiend Folio. The kopru appeared in the MM2.
Regards,
Eric Anondson
Originally posted by katana_one
After seeing what they published in Dragon recently (#315, I think), I would have to agree with you. I hope Wizards publishes very little for Mystara.
Originally posted by havard
Yes, I dont see Mystara showing up in a Core Product either. Still, I would like to see Mystara stuff appearing somewhere (Dragon
or other), but if so it needs to be done with the proper respect.
I didn't think the Mystara stuff in Dragon 315 and the later issue was too bad. It just wasn't particularily good, or particularily interestin. The Red Curse conversion was useful though, even though I'm thinking of returning to the orgininal VotPA version of the Red Curse, instead of the Red Steel variant.
Havard
Out of curiosity, what specifically did you like and dislike about the stuff in 315? What sorts of things would you like to see updated from Mystara for 3.5?
Originally posted by MKMcArtor
Out of curiosity, what specifically did you like and dislike about the stuff in 315? What sorts of things would you like to see updated from Mystara for 3.5?
Well, like I said I didn't think the treatment was too bad. What I didn't like about that issue of Dragon was that it was mostly just a collection of articles each introducing one PrC to each setting.
Since this was the first "official" Mystara material we have seen in ages I probably shouldn't be complaining though.
The articles that could be related to Mystara, were the one on the Hollow World, the one on Cynicedia, the one on the Savage Coast and the one on Blackmoor. Four articles that could easily be slipped into our campaigns is great. Still, I was a little disappointed that there were no articles dealing with any of The Known World countries.
This is what I would love to see in future issues of Dragon. Perhaps an article dealing with the Secret Crafts of Glantri, the Radience, the Crucible of Blackflame, the Forge of Power, etc etc.
While I am at it making wishes. Any chance of you persuading Bruce Heard to come back and run a follow-up to his Voyage of the Princess Ark series, in coming issues of Dragon? I'd sign up for subscription today if that was to happen!
Thanks for reading this by the way
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
While I am at it making wishes. Any chance of you persuading Bruce Heard to come back and run a follow-up to his Voyage of the Princess Ark series, in coming issues of Dragon? I'd sign up for subscription today if that was to happen!
So would I - in a heartbeat - and many others I am sure! :D
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by MKMcArtor
Out of curiosity, what specifically did you like and dislike about the stuff in 315?
See this thread for a discussion of Dragon 315's articles if you really want to know. You will have to scroll a bit before the thread picks up on the topic …
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99753
Originally posted by MKMcArtor
Out of curiosity, what specifically did you like and dislike about the stuff in 315? What sorts of things would you like to see updated from Mystara for 3.5?
Myself, I liked the Savage Coast article, little to complain from me. The Hollow World article, I thought was very innovative, it had a big "wow" factor. But I latter I had more questions about how exactly it what was done would have consequences on the setting. Not sure what I think about that part.
The B4 article was a let down. It didn't seem to do much. Compared to the fan-authored Cynidcea mini-Gazetteer on the official Mystara fansite, it left me wanting.
The Blackmoor halfling article, I understand that it was more of a promotional piece for the forthcoming Blackmoor campaign product by Zeitgeist Games. In that regard it felt more themed to blazing new trails for that new product, showcasing what to look forward to. And that's fine, but then it has at best a marginal connection to Mystara, because I'm under the impression that Zeitgeist Games is being given zero license to reference Mystara places or things.
I, too, would like to see more Mystara material that is centered around the Known World. I'd like to see something on elven trees of life. I'd like to see something on halfling blackflame, and maybe something on a 3.5 equivalent for Hin Masters (see The Five Shires, by Ed Greenwood). How about an article on regional feats for Mystara, including how to take FR and Greyhawk regional feats and make them fit Mystara.
I was always skeptical of claims by the AD&D'ers that level 36 in OD&D was equal to level 20 in AD&D. Bunk! It certainly wasn't a near 1-to-1 level-to-level equivalent. But play at the uppermost levels in OD&D really WAS the original Epic-level gaming. [sarcasm]AD&D was just jealous they didn't figure out how to make their rules scale that high without spinning out of control.[/sarcasm] In that light, if you do any PrC's or even "new classes" based on material from Mystara, please Please PLEASE give us 3.5 Epic options. Maybe a new Epic feat themed for those Mystara PrCs, or to just to a paragraph on Epic advancement.
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
I'd like to see some info on the Rakasta subraces.
I would like to see an official adaptation of the rakastas...
Thanks for your feedback so far. I just wanted to drop a reply to let you know that I am reading through your wish lists.
I can promise nothing about what might appear in the magazine that has any connection to Mystara, but I wanted to let you know that there is in fact a Known World fan on Dragon's staff.
So keep shooting me ideas of what you'd like to see. I check the Mystara boards at least once per work day.
Thanks!
Well, Mystara has some unique features, besides some adaptations on Gazetters material, i think that an official view on the rakastas, lupins and shadow elves would be great assets not only to mystara fans but to the general reader's of dragon that could easily adapt the races to their non mystara campaigns.
These races are part of what makes mystara unique.
That said, small updates in Dragon Magazine, are welcomed and appreciated. Translating bits and pieces from the Mystara lore to 3.5E are fine, or even creating new feats or such inspired from existing lore. Updating a Mystaran location or module is also good in principle.
No big updates, or wholesale re-introduction like Dark Sun though. Suggestions of how to shoehorn in other campaign settings feats and such into Mystara is also best not done, DMs can do that for themselves.
Originally posted by MKMcArtor
I can promise nothing about what might appear in the magazine that has any connection to Mystara, but I wanted to let you know that there is in fact a Known World fan on Dragon's staff.
Well Mike, its good to know that we have friends in those places.
I'll be keeping my fingers crossed, hoping you'll be able to use your influce to get more Mystara stuff into the magazine.
Like NPC Dave said, we don't need a full relaunch of Mystara, but having an article appear now and then in Dragon is a nice reminder that our (Known) World is remembered....
Havard
To be more specific, I've had a couple of adventures in mind for adventures that took place in Mystara locales, but which would be easily transposed for "generic" use- ie, they only make use of some place names and things, and aren't so tightly wound into Mystara background that they would be unusable outside of that world. So, for Mystaraphiles, they'd be a little wink-wink, nudge-nudge and hey we can use that, but for anyone else they could pretty much run the adventure as is and incorporate it as they wish.
In any case, I enjoyed the articles in Dragon #115. Even though I never really cared for the mechanics introduced in the 2nd Edition version of the Savage Coast (I actually dug the idea of cinnabar addiction-as-substance-abuse scenario), I still found many interesting things in the Red Steel article. I liked the fleshing out of Zargon done in the Cynidicea article. The Ka-Tainted was an intriguing concept, though I'm not quite sure how I like the idea of introducing it into the Azcan society. Of course, it is easily transplanted outside of Azca (and the Hollow World, for that matter). There is an ancient Mystara story I've been tweaking in my head for a while- the Ka-Tainted "concept" I think would work very well in a Carnifex oriented campaign, muhahaha!
It is nice to hear and see that Dragon is open to Mystara-oriented articles, though. I'll have to get busy and start writing... got a few ideas in mind already!
Was all of this in issue #115?
Regards and Best Wishes,
Donald Eric Kesler
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
A question for MKMcArtor, while we're on the topic of Mystara in Dragon. Would Dungeon accept submissions for Mystara adventures as well?
That's a question best left to the Dungeon guys. My guess is, they're not any more interested in Mystara-specific adventures than in, say, Birthright-specific adventures. However...
To be more specific, I've had a couple of adventures in mind for adventures that took place in Mystara locales, but which would be easily transposed for "generic" use- ie, they only make use of some place names and things, and aren't so tightly wound into Mystara background that they would be unusable outside of that world. So, for Mystaraphiles, they'd be a little wink-wink, nudge-nudge and hey we can use that, but for anyone else they could pretty much run the adventure as is and incorporate it as they wish.
The more generic you can make something, the better (this goes for both magazines). The current default setting for D&D is Greyhawk, so you would need to make sure nothing you put in can't be easily plunked into that world (or Forgotten Realms or Eberron or a homebrew world). That said, it's always fun to try to sneak in a reference to your favorite setting.
In any case, I enjoyed the articles in Dragon #115. Even though I never really cared for the mechanics introduced in the 2nd Edition version of the Savage Coast (I actually dug the idea of cinnabar addiction-as-substance-abuse scenario), I still found many interesting things in the Red Steel article. I liked the fleshing out of Zargon done in the Cynidicea article. The Ka-Tainted was an intriguing concept, though I'm not quite sure how I like the idea of introducing it into the Azcan society. Of course, it is easily transplanted outside of Azca (and the Hollow World, for that matter). There is an ancient Mystara story I've been tweaking in my head for a while- the Ka-Tainted "concept" I think would work very well in a Carnifex oriented campaign, muhahaha!
Glad you liked it.
It is nice to hear and see that Dragon is open to Mystara-oriented articles, though. I'll have to get busy and start writing... got a few ideas in mind already!
Like I said, keep everything general. Passing references to something Mystara-specific might make it through the other editors, but developing something wholly based in Mystara (and that is difficult or impossible to place into another campaign setting) probably won't be green-lighted. There's only so much room that we can or will devote to a classic campaign, so anything written for one must be easily interchanged with other campaigns (especially Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Eberron).
I hope that helps.
Originally posted by havard
Well Mike, its good to know that we have friends in those places.
I'll be keeping my fingers crossed, hoping you'll be able to use your influce to get more Mystara stuff into the magazine.
I have influence? ;)
Seriously, though, I'm only one of three editors on the magazine, and we all have our own favorite settings. The Known World (pre 2nd Edition update) just happens to be mine.
Like NPC Dave said, we don't need a full relaunch of Mystara
That's probably good.
but having an article appear now and then in Dragon is a nice reminder that our (Known) World is remembered....
Well, I'll see what I can do.
Thanks for your interest!
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Think you're pretty safe unless WotC suddenly has an interest in the old basic adventures like Isle of Dread or something like that.
Funny you're saying that because, apparently, Paizo will be providing us with a complete 3.5E update to the Isle of Dread in Dungeon issue #114 :D
hehehehe
:D
Originally posted by Mortepierre
Funny you're saying that because, apparently, Paizo will be providing us with a complete 3.5E update to the Isle of Dread in Dungeon issue #114 :D
LOL...I must be psychic or something
Originally posted by Mortepierre
Funny you're saying that because, apparently, Paizo will be providing us with a complete 3.5E update to the Isle of Dread in Dungeon issue #114 :D
Think there is any chance the map of the Known World will be included? I guess they have removed that to make it more generic and replaced the map with a note saying "you can put this island anywhere in your campaign world" or something, eh?
But man, seeing the Known World map and country descriptions from the original X1 in Dungeon would have been awsome!
*Fingers crossed*
Havard
Originally posted by Mortepierre
Funny you're saying that because, apparently, Paizo will be providing us with a complete 3.5E update to the Isle of Dread in Dungeon issue #114 :D
It's true. I know I for one was extremely excited when I found that out. All I can tell you is the map looks very, very cool . . . and I've only seen it in black & white! ;)
Originally posted by MKMcArtor
It's true. I know I for one was extremely excited when I found that out. All I can tell you is the map looks very, very cool . . . and I've only seen it in black & white! ;)
I only buy Dungeon when there is something in it that is of special interest to me. For instance I picked up the issue dealing with Dark Sun conversions. I will definately buy this one, since I buy anything that has even remote association with Mystara. ;)
Reading this comment makes me think there might even be more to this than I dare hope for. When will issue 114 hit the shelves?
Known World mega Issues of Dragon and Dungeon next then? ;)
Havard
Originally posted by havard
Think there is any chance the map of the Known World will be included? I guess they have removed that to make it more generic and replaced the map with a note saying "you can put this island anywhere in your campaign world" or something, eh?But man, seeing the Known World map and country descriptions from the original X1 in Dungeon would have been awsome!
*Fingers crossed*
Havard
Actually, my understanding is that Isle of Dread v3.5 will be based in southern Greyhawk, although I am sure that there will be a disclaimer that the material is applicable to any setting with only "minor" modifications. This should not be a surprise since the current editor of Dungeon is a big supporter of Greyhawk (much to the delight of us Greyhawkers) !
Originally posted by Twilight_Knight
Actually, my understanding is that Isle of Dread v3.5 will be based in southern Greyhawk, although I am sure that there will be a disclaimer that the material is applicable to any setting with only "minor" modifications. This should not be a surprise since the current editor of Dungeon is a big supporter of Greyhawk (much to the delight of us Greyhawkers) !
I find that mildly annoying, but I will probably buy it anyway. This is the second adventure module that has been taken from Mystara and converted into Greyhawk, Return to the Keep of the Borderlands being the first.
I don't really like the policy of bringing stuff from one setting into another (I guess i am sort of Apartheid-ish that way). To restore balance, ill have to port Greyhawk Wars into my next Mystara campaign....) :P
Håvard
Originally posted by havard
I find that mildly annoying.
I don't really like the policy of bringing stuff from one setting into another (I guess i am sort of Apartheid-ish that way)
Well, I guess we are no better - trying to fit elements from the new Eberron setting into Mystara :D
Personally, I would have liked to see the conversion into 3.5 E D&D remain in the Known World but what the heck! I always liked the old TSR slogan: 'Products of you imagination' - so let's all use ours and come up with even more great stuff for the Greyhawk fans to 'steal', he he he.
. To restore balance, ill have to port Greyhawk Wars into my next Mystara campaign....) :P
Håvard
*LOL*
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by havard
I find that mildly annoying, but I will probably buy it anyway. This is the second adventure module that has been taken from Mystara and converted into Greyhawk, Return to the Keep of the Borderlands being the first.
I don't really like the policy of bringing stuff from one setting into another (I guess i am sort of Apartheid-ish that way). To restore balance, ill have to port Greyhawk Wars into my next Mystara campaign....) :P
Håvard
Yeah, I understand that opinion. I would be irritated if "Tomb of Horrors" or "Slavers" sudden was published for Forgotten Realms. However, I'm a little selfish when it comes to classic material. Since I think that the "B" and "X" series mods were some of the best ever (I routinely adapt them to my Greyhawk campaign), I fiendishly smile
whenever I see them updated for my favorite setting. And with Eric Mona at the controls of Dungeon, I anticipate more in the future.Originally posted by havard
I find that mildly annoying, but I will probably buy it anyway. This is the second adventure module that has been taken from Mystara and converted into Greyhawk, Return to the Keep of the Borderlands being the first.
I don't really like the policy of bringing stuff from one setting into another (I guess i am sort of Apartheid-ish that way). To restore balance, ill have to port Greyhawk Wars into my next Mystara campaign....) :P
Håvard
Actually, B2 wasn't set in Mystara originally. It was written in 1979, two years before the Known World even existed. Gary Gygax has said that if the Keep was located anywhere, it was probably on the western border of the Pomarj in Greyhawk. The Keep wasn't put into Mystara until 1987 with Gaz 1 and B1-9.
Of course B2 fit very well in on the north-eastern border of Karamiekos. Far better than B1, B3, B7, B8 or B9 ever fit into the Known World. B1, which, like B2, predates the Known World's creation, was also original set in Greyhawk, as the notes state in the original pastel version. B3 was originally set in Glantri (the orange version), but was strangely changed to a generic setting. (In my opinion, it still fits better in Glantri.) B7 was adopted from two tournament modules that predated the Known World's creation. And B8 and B9, just plain don't fit.
B5 is generic enough to fit anywhere. B4 and B6 were the only B modules before B10 to be explicitly set in the Known World. Not surprising, given they were authored by the Known World's creators Tom Moldvay and Zeb Cook respectively.
Why all the others were shoe-horned into the Known World is beyond me. Or perhaps the better question is, when most of the other D&D modules being produced from '82 to '86 were set in the Known World, why were the vast majority of the B modules not.
R.A.
Originally posted by rogueattorney
Why all the others were shoe-horned into the Known World is beyond me. Or perhaps the better question is, when most of the other D&D modules being produced from '82 to '86 were set in the Known World, why were the vast majority of the B modules not.
I disagree.
Mystara was, unlike most other settings born through a long and slow process. Although the Known World didn't exist as such, it grew from the B modules, even though they may have been written with other settings in mind. If they seem not to fit, it is probably because of how the setting developed later, into the Known World and eventually into Mystara.
Havard