) is going to change his character to a minotaur fighter, an exile or deserter maybe one from the good ones who follow Kaz, we havent decided (any advise on that would be apreciated too :D ) also Malat is called the "Minotaur" for his size and the magical fur he wears, what do you think will happed in this situation? how to handle it? and what do you think the Minotaur PC should feel, think or do about Malat?Thanks.
Originally posted by Calabozo
...s going to change his character to a minotaur fighter, an exile or deserter maybe one from the good ones who follow Kaz, we havent decided (any advise on that would be apreciated too :D ) also Malat is called the "Minotaur" for his size and the magical fur he wears, what do you think will happed in this situation? how to handle it? and what do you think the Minotaur PC should feel, think or do about Malat?
Thanks.
*hrms* Okay, I really wasn't gonna answer any posts today since it's my birthday, but I can't resist this one... it tickles my fancy!
Malat's actually one of my favorite NPCs in the adventure, second only to Shroud. He was given the name "Minotaur" not as a derisive name, but as a sobriquet indicating his Strength. Upon him meeting a "good" and real minotaur, it might actually be kinda fun to play the big, brawny Mikku as being utterly fascinated with the minotaur, wanting to test his strength against a "real" minotaur. If the PC is offended by the cloak (which isn't made of minotaur hide, it's made from the hide of a bull bison, and the minotaurs go out of their way to claim no relation to "cows," so you might allow the minotaur PC a Spot or Intelligence check to realize it's /not/ the skin of an actual minotaur...or not
). Heck, the minotaur PC, if he beats Malat, could end up with a fanboy that wants to be more like him, or alternately, if he's beaten by Malat, may find the warrior becoming an arrogant snot that will go out of his way to tease the "weakling," or if they really, really, really don't get along, perhaps the minotaur and the "Minotaur" become long-term enemies ;)There's a lot of different ways you can go with the scenario, all depending, I guess, primarily upon the actions of the PC...or upon the gentle manipulations of the DM
Christopher... Going, Going, GONE!
Good things can't always last, of course, and the blue dragon's mother arrived. A ferocious battle ensued, but in the early stages of it Malat was crushed under one mighty blue foreleg as a display of the blue's strength. If it wasn't for the brass dragon Sandstorm showing up in the nick of time, the heroes and the Mikku wouldn't have escaped. Katja was left with a burning desire to see all evil dragons slain, especially the blue dragon Cacophanax, who still seeks her out in the deserts of Khur.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Calabozo
Wow im guessing that your players are way above 3rd level Cam :D
Not really that far above it. Right now they're in Ak-Khurman, about to head across the bay to Port Balifor in pursuit of some dark knights who have kidnapped Zoe Left-Hand, the Mage of Khurman Tor. They're all about 8th level, I think. The next session's this coming Thursday night - I need to decide if Chatomi Mikku's going with them or not.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Karui_Kage
8th level? o_O I thought KoD was only meant for levels 1-7? Or do you have the second module already? Or something. Im confused.
Yes, it's only meant for levels 1-7. I've been handing out a lot more experience points than usual. Don't worry, they're not going to find any of what's coming up ahead any easier by being a little ahead of the intended character level. ;)
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Not really that far above it. Right now they're in Ak-Khurman, about to head across the bay to Port Balifor in pursuit of some dark knights who have kidnapped Zoe Left-Hand, the Mage of Khurman Tor. They're all about 8th level, I think. The next session's this coming Thursday night - I need to decide if Chatomi Mikku's going with them or not.
Cheers,
Cam
Hey Cam- sounds like your group is moving through the adventure pretty well. Now, before anyone gets all up in arms, this is not a stab at criticizm, but Spectre of Sorrows isn't expected for several more months (november IIRC); do you have plans to stall your group if need be? Just curious, in case I run into the same situation with my group...
(I've found that stalling before the adventure was easy enough, but stalling in the midst of it might be a little more difficult to work with IMO)
Originally posted by frostdawn
Hey Cam- sounds like your group is moving through the adventure pretty well. Now, before anyone gets all up in arms, this is not a stab at criticizm, but Spectre of Sorrows isn't expected for several more months (november IIRC); do you have plans to stall your group if need be? Just curious, in case I run into the same situation with my group...
(I've found that stalling before the adventure was easy enough, but stalling in the midst of it might be a little more difficult to work with IMO)
The way I am handling it I will not have to stall. We play once every two weeks and the campaign is heavy on the role playing aspect.
IMO If you fly through each adventure-negating role playing and refusing to develop an in-depth background for the characters-you deserve to be adventure-less for awhile after you finish rushing through the module like a madman. Basically if you want to fly through adventures be prepared to make up your own stuff to cover the large space it will leave between modules.
~~~
Originally posted by frostdawn
Hey Cam- sounds like your group is moving through the adventure pretty well. Now, before anyone gets all up in arms, this is not a stab at criticizm, but Spectre of Sorrows isn't expected for several more months (november IIRC); do you have plans to stall your group if need be? Just curious, in case I run into the same situation with my group...
I started them on this last year, around November I think, and I'm only up to Chapter 4. In addition, I've been using the module as a broader canvas upon which to paint the group's story, so at times they've wandered off the published path so to speak in order to accomplish personal goals or follow up on things which occurred in the course of play. I don't have any real concern that I'm ever going to run out of stuff to do with them, and the adventure is full of hooks and little nuggets of unexplored potential which, if given some thought, makes it fairly easy to expand upon if needed.
I've never limited myself to the precise events and flow of a published adventure, and given the length of Key of Destiny it's essential I think to keep the PCs in mind when incorporating it into a campaign. So far it's been very, very enjoyable, so I encourage folks to tailor it to their own purposes and make as much use as they can of the detail Chris has included in the book.
Cheers,
Cam
I've never limited myself to the precise events and flow of a published adventure, and given the length of Key of Destiny it's essential I think to keep the PCs in mind when incorporating it into a campaign.
Nicely put. IMO it is bad when the adventure dwarfs the PCs. The PCs should always be the main focus of the adventure. Which is why I wrote up some in-depth backgrounds for each of the PCs that are playing in my AoM campaign.
This allows the creative DM to plant seeds in his/her campaign that can be used at anytime.
For instance, I have the players being tracked by a well known dark knight tracker whom goes by the name of "Miriam Catilla"(After the players ko'd a few knights the Nerakans finally got tired of them and called in help.). I based Miriam off of a character I had read about in one of the FR novels(He had been hired by "The Harpers" to track down the "ShadowKing".) I read back in the day. As a tracker Miriam is relentless and has never failed in her job.
Another seed I am working on now involves the "Blade of Betrayal". I am going to make it quite easy for my group's rogue to locate it within the temple. He is looking for a magical item(preferably a dagger.) so this fits in quite nicely. With the dagger being an intelligient magical item I think everyone here knows where this is going(Good looks on the evil seed you helped plant MSD!).
Those are just a few of the seeds I have planted in my campaign garden. :D
~~~
The way I am handling it I will not have to stall. We play once every two weeks and the campaign is heavy on the role playing aspect.
IMO If you fly through each adventure-negating role playing and refusing to develop an in-depth background for the characters-you deserve to be adventure-less for awhile after you finish rushing through the module like a madman. Basically if you want to fly through adventures be prepared to make up your own stuff to cover the large space it will leave between modules.
~~~
No offense or anything LOI, but you do seem rather confrontational in alot of your posts, this one is no exception. ;)
Actually, I was curious how people planned to prepare for the eventuality (if and when it came up) of what to do between KoD and SoS. Of course, you can take all kinds of side quests and what not, but if a side quest takes the group 180 degrees in the wrong direction of where they need to be in the next book, there starts to be logistical issues such as time, goals, level of importance with side quests in relation to the KoD adventure, etc etc etc. The way KoD is set up, it's not a standard dungeon crawl anyway, which sets up and encourages elaboration.
I didn't want to get into this, but I guess I have to, since my pessimistic side is being forced to the foreground in order to prove more of my point. IF (BIG IF) Spectre of Sorrows isn't released on time, and takes 8 months or more BEYOND it's tentative release (like KoD did) of Novemeber, do you have enough side quests and what not to fill that gap in time? I recall LOI, you being one of the most vociferous people in regards to the release schedule for KoD. I would have thought Spectre of Sorrows would be a concern for you as well.
For the record, within my group, as a prereq to playing in a group, we need a character history, minimum of one page. At least 2 long term goals and 3 short term goals. A listing of known relatives, as well as friends and enemies. We also encourage perks and flaws with a character such as fears, fetishes, etc. As for how long we take on an adventure, as I've stated in past posts, we played the Citadel of Darkness mini-adventure for something to work on as we waited for KoD to be released, and that took the better part of 3 months to play out. And that book is a fraction of the size of KoD. Heck, the adventure to introduce the characters to each other took 2 sessions to complete, and we play for around 4 hours or more per session.
The downside is, one player hardly ever plays since he is a new father, with another kid on the way, and 2 other people in my group have been slacking in that they finished their characters, but haven't gotten me a copy of their backgrounds, so I can't currently personalize the adventure for them yet. I have a GREAT tie-in for one of the group when they get to Malys's Peak. All this is a moot point though, since my group has yet to even start the Sylvan Key adventure...
Originally posted by frostdawn
I have a GREAT tie-in for one of the group when they get to Malys's Peak. All this is a moot point though, since my group has yet to even start the Sylvan Key adventure...
You should have no trouble at all getting things to line up eventually with the release of the next module. Make as much use of the material as you can, and let it play itself out. Trust me, you'll have plenty of warning if you need to adjust your campaign several months from now.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
You should have no trouble at all getting things to line up eventually with the release of the next module. Make as much use of the material as you can, and let it play itself out. Trust me, you'll have plenty of warning if you need to adjust your campaign several months from now.
Cheers,
Cam
That's cool. I was kinda curious what you had in mind for your group in particular Cam, since your moving along rather well in the adventure. When I posted my first question, I didn't realize you had been playing the module for a better part of a year. I was just curious what you planned to do considering your about half way through the module already, with a bare minimum of 5 months before the next book rolls around (quite possibly more). I can see you pushing things out so you and your group have content to work with until the next adventure, so my question is more a "what if". :P
(however, if after the better part of whole year, your only half way through the adventure, then timing for the second module isn't even a consideration for you, so my question may be a moot point anyway)
Again, just curious is all.
I didn't want to get into this, but I guess I have to, since my pessimistic side is being forced to the foreground in order to prove more of my point. IF (BIG IF) Spectre of Sorrows isn't released on time, and takes 8 months or more BEYOND it's tentative release (like KoD did) of Novemeber, do you have enough side quests and what not to fill that gap in time? I recall LOI, you being one of the most vociferous people in regards to the release schedule for KoD. I would have thought Spectre of Sorrows would be a concern for you as well.
Your arguement about IF Spectre of Sorrows is late(With a Big IF as you say.) you may have problems is irrelevant. Spectre of Sorrows is NOT due out until November of the year 2004, it is now only June of the year 2004.
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Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Your arguement about IF Spectre of Sorrows is late(With a Big IF as you say.) you may have problems is irrelevant. Spectre of Sorrows is NOT due out until November of the year 2004, it is now only June of the year 2004.
~~~
My original question was aimed specifically at Cam since he was half way through KoD, and I was curious what he had in mind to do if his group finished the book before Spectre of Sorrows was released. Why you felt compelled to talk down to me from that question that had nothing to do with really is a mystery to me. My response was an attempt to clarify my concerns, particularly since it seemed like my question didn't go over quite the way I anticipated.
Let me rephrase my question to you, to make sure we're not confusing each other (again, no offense, I just want to make sure there's no confusion). Do you have enough adventure material in the form of Key of Destiny to work with to last a year or possibly more?
Key of Destiny was originally slated for October 2003, and didn't arrive until May 2004. The "if" was for what if Spectre of Sorrows takes as long to arrive as KoD did? On time, SoS would arrive 5 months from now (November), and "if" delayed like KoD was, will take an ADDITIONAL 8 months or so. That would mean SoS wouldn't be available for over a year from right now. Again, worst case scenario, with a big "if". Do you guys have enough material to go on in order to account for that kind of downtime?
I thought it was a legitimate question, part curiousity, part concern, not an invite to be condescending and trite...
Originally posted by Calabozo
Cam what kind of side adventures have u played? besides of the blue dragon that you have already mention, since you have been playing since last year and are in chapter four it would help us to know what kind of side quest to use in case SoS doesnt come out in november.
A lot of it has been tailoring events to my group. I added the young sorcerer Cole to the party early on, and the PCs have learned that there's more to him than he lets on. He apparently applied to the Knights of Neraka for membership in the Order of the Thorn, but they rejected him. Then, later, it turned out that he'd been told by the Thorns that if he acted as their spy in the PC group, he'd be rewarded. He has since become somewhat friendly with the wizard in the party, who considers him something of a project (this wizard believes sorcerers and wizards should all get along...) Now he's been swept up in the events of Ak-Khurman, which has included the sabotage of the wizard's Test, the kidnapping of Zoe Left-Hand, and collusion with the Nerakan cell in the city.
I also didn't run Hurim quite the same way as it's published in the module. I sent half of the party back in time, in fact, and they got caught up in the events of the Night of Betrayal. It's a long story, but in the end they got back to the present but not before they'd brought the soul of the Betrayer back into the future - in the body of one of the PCs! This change had its own lasting effects, making Chemosh more prominent in some ways and having the Skull Knights chasing after the PCs to get hold of one of Chemosh's unholy books, etc etc.
So, yeah - there's much that I took and tailored to how my group works, and it's been a lot of fun. The overall plot has been very much the same, but with such a colorful toolbox as this module is I've found it very hard to resist a little tinkering.
Cheers,
Cam
I also didn't run Hurim quite the same way as it's published in the module. I sent half of the party back in time, in fact, and they got caught up in the events of the Night of Betrayal. It's a long story, but in the end they got back to the present but not before they'd brought the soul of the Betrayer back into the future - in the body of one of the PCs! This change had its own lasting effects, making Chemosh more prominent in some ways and having the Skull Knights chasing after the PCs to get hold of one of Chemosh's unholy books, etc etc.
I like how you took the campaign off into left field but still managed to stay close to the original module storyline. That was tight Cam.
~~~
And Cam, it sounds like your group would be a blast to play in. I love the different twists and liberties you've taken with the adventure from what I've heard so far. I think it's interesting to hear how other people interpret the adventure for their groups.
With that...My group started out onboard a slaver ship. Of course, they had a kender on board with them as another prisoner, and who eventually freed himself and the others in order to stage a mutiny of sorts. Since the opportunity occured at night, things got rather interesting with the insuing fight. Especially since the party encouraged a tinkerer gnome to try and steer the ship toward shore (lots of balance checks as the deck of the ship rocked back and forth) The kender got a few of the deck hands to chase him around the ship as he put out the lights whenever he could. The fight ended with the party getting to make occasional spot checks to see their general orientation to shore. Their last check showed them heading straight for it, full speed.
A loud crash later, and they found themselves mysteriously fully cured and awake on the beach, with the wreckage of the ship around them, and no signs of anyone else. (the Kender was actually a metallic dragon insinuating itself into the midst of the prisoners to find out what was going on with the prisoners- a plot of an evil blue in the area to garnish subjects for dragonspawn experimentation was rumored and confirmed by conversations overheard amongst the crew)
Needless to say, the "kender" had escorted the other prisoners and was caring for them in his nearby lair, and was about to come back for the party, but they awoke and moved on before he could get back to them. They did see him later in the small town that is mentioned in Citidal of Darkness, but they opted to not pursue it. They may run back into that later though.
A search of the wreckage turned up some elven artwork amongst some other goodies, and the locals didn't know what it's value might be, so they suggested the party go check out Pashin since there has been increased trafficing of Elven goods there of late, and they would have better luck finding a buyer there. (after the mini-adventure)They just finished the Citidal of Darkness, and Pashin is scheduled for their next session...
The whole pre-adventure that you had going for your group sounds interesting. Where did you get the idea for all of the above ?
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Originally posted by frostdawn
My group started out onboard a slaver ship. Of course, they had a kender on board with them as another prisoner, and who eventually freed himself and the others in order to stage a mutiny of sorts.
Breaking out of a prison or getting free of captors is one of the classic campaign starters. Sounds like that went off very well indeed! As an alternative, a particularly cruel DM could begin the Key of Destiny with the PCs locked up in the Dark Knight enclave in Pashin, giving them some options for escape which won't necessarily include going underground. The elves could be introduced there, tasking the heroes with finding the Key somewhere in the city and bringing it back to them once they do. At the end of that chapter, the PCs could bring the keys to Shaylin only to have her tell them that their role in the Key's destiny is not over.
In my campaign, the dark knights were tipped off by Cole that the heroes were down in the sewers with the elves. After a nice and relaxing night spent there, recovering from injuries and getting ready to move on, the heroes gathered to say goodbye to their elven hosts. The farewells were interrupted by fireballs exploding throughout the elven camp, as General Dogah, a group of Thorn knights, and a band of other Nerakans arrived to wipe the elves out. The heroes fled up the passage to the desert, but not before Shaylin had been slain by a Nerakan archer.
My players really, really hate dark knights.
Cheers,
Cam
My players really, really hate dark knights.
Probably not as much as my players do. I had them stay in Pashin for an extended amount of time ducking the dark knights as they went back and forth into the sewers looking for the elven enclave.
There was one encounter in particular that is still kind of fresh in my mind. They had just come out of the sewers and were on their way back to Omar's Oddities to purchase some magical potions when they ran into a dark knight patrol. Of course they fought them but before they could take them all out one of the knights blew their horn drawing other knights towards them.
The players were scrambling back and forth attempting to find somewhere to flee because that night in particular the dark knights were rolling high on the dice with those bastard swords. LoL!
Eventually they dipped into an alleyway and ended up hiding out for hours in an abandoned building. What was hilarious was that the players were REALLY scared! They were peeking out of the alleyways, whispering(even when they were talking OOC), Looking at me with those huge owl eyes while asking me stuff, etc. We had a ball that night.
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Frostdawn,
The whole pre-adventure that you had going for your group sounds interesting. Where did you get the idea for all of the above ?
~~~
My bad, I realized afterward that the Citadel of Darkness I was referring to was actually the Sunless Citadel adventure book. The ship the group was on, crashed on the shores about 40 odd miles east of Pashin. The terrain that Pashin lies in tied in perfectly with the terrain for the town in the Sunless Citadel adventure, and I could write it in rather easily since the "town" was really only like 4-5 buildings at the most.
The slaver ship scenario was something I slapped together to get the characters interested in a common goal and to work together, the good old plot device as Cam said. Thing is, Iwonder how the group will handle finding that some of the crew from that ship made it off alive, and aren't too happy about losing their 'spoils'. Especially when they run into them in Ahk Kurman.
Since their group is really only 3 strong, I gave them an NPC half elven fighter that they will learn more about in time (I have some things planned for him)- the mini adventure provides the possibility of introducing an NPC if the group rescues them (which they did).
Admittedly, I'm rather inexperienced as a DM, as over the years I've mostly been a player of the game, not the DM (aside from running little encounters here and there to give our main DM a break and a chance to actually play his character). So far, I'm having a blast though.:D
Originally posted by frostdawn
My bad, I realized afterward that the Citadel of Darkness I was referring to was actually the Sunless Citadel adventure book. The ship the group was on, crashed on the shores about 40 odd miles east of Pashin. The terrain that Pashin lies in tied in perfectly with the terrain for the town in the Sunless Citadel adventure, and I could write it in rather easily since the "town" was really only like 4-5 buildings at the most.
Sunless Citadel ? Yeah that's a 3E thoroughbred adventure. I have that one myself. Noone in my group has completed it yet.
The slaver ship scenario was something I slapped together to get the characters interested in a common goal and to work together, the good old plot device as Cam said. Thing is, Iwonder how the group will handle finding that some of the crew from that ship made it off alive, and aren't too happy about losing their 'spoils'. Especially when they run into them in Ahk Kurman.
Since their group is really only 3 strong, I gave them an NPC half elven fighter that they will learn more about in time (I have some things planned for him)- the mini adventure provides the possibility of introducing an NPC if the group rescues them (which they did).
Nice campaign seeds. I can already see all kinds of side plots just from that brief write up.
Admittedly, I'm rather inexperienced as a DM, as over the years I've mostly been a player of the game, not the DM (aside from running little encounters here and there to give our main DM a break and a chance to actually play his character). So far, I'm having a blast though.:D
You do not sound too inexperienced to me. Sounds like your campaign has been put together rather nicely. Those seeds you had sewn in the beginning should begin coming to fruition soon(From what I have read.). Keep up the good work!
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Originally posted by LordofIllusions
You do not sound too inexperienced to me. Sounds like your campaign has been put together rather nicely. Those seeds you had sewn in the beginning should begin coming to fruition soon(From what I have read.). Keep up the good work!
~~~
Thanks for the vote of confidence!