I'm currently having problems with the way a lot of the draconians and noble draconians are presented.
With the noble draconians, I looked over the venom and frost and see their LA and HD actually being pretty accurate in my opinion. My problem I have is when it seems that people just added class levels onto a race to make them more powerful it seems. I personally don't think a bunch of levels should be added to a race. I liked what they did with dragonspawn where they get one "virtual" level of sorceror. They cast spells as a 1st level sorceror if they have no levels in sorceror. If they do have levels, it stacks.
The problem I have is for races like the Vapor, Flame, and Lightning noble draconians and the Aurak and Bozak draconians.
I understand something like the Aurak being considered already to have sorceror spells but I think 8 "virtual" levels of sorceror is just too much. At the most I think should be done is 4...only because they would get 2nd level spells, but I don't even personally like that.
The bozak would be fine with just one or two virtual levels of sorceror. Personally I think one would be enough, like a dragonspawn, but others might think they have a little more magical ability.
Now..the noble draconians. It seriously looks like they added "virtual" levels instead of coming up with new abilities that could be given to them.
For the vapor draconian. I just see 4 levels of mystic just being too much. They have nothing else...seriously. No other abilities, nothing that even distinguishes them. They have natural armor and good ability scores. And to say again... no abilities. Unless you count death throe. I gues you can count Dragon traits as abilties, but I guess i was looking for more something specific to the vapor draconian.
Now...the Lightning draconian. Again he was pretty much just given levels in the Paladin class. I like the shocking grasp ability and even the trip. Also he can fly. This helps make him a little different. I also have a problem with him having "virtual" levels in paladin just because what if he isnt good? 3rd edition has done away with races that have to be a certain alignment. I think having the lay on hands ability and even the divine grace would be alright. But anything doing with alignment should have been left out, Smite evil, Aura of Good, etc.
The Flame draconian has 8 virtual levels in barbarian. Thats a lot of levels in a class to show that its "like" a barbarian. I think 1 rage/day would have been a nice feature of the class. I do like the Fireball extra ability.
I do like the concept of the noble draconians, it just kind of looks like they had wanted to make them powerful..or a challenge..and instead of coming up with stuff to give them...they just fell back on the idea of giving them automatic levels in classes. Or at least what amounts to them. Personally I believe that one virtual level in a class is enough to show their "bent" towards that class. I dont like seeing a character automatically get pigeon holed into a class. I see this a lot with other races too, not just here in Dragonlance. Hopefully ECL will be fixed whenever there is a new edition that comes out. For right now I've just been coming up with ways that i can change these races around and make them more unique and able to play. I do appreciate the designers of the setting...just frustrated with ECL.
Appreciate any comments.
I also have a problem with him having "virtual" levels in paladin just because what if he isnt good?
You forget one important thing; there are only three lightning draconians. 2 of them have levels in paladin, hence favoured class: paladin. The other one took levels in fighter, for the bonus feats.
Also, even if there were only three left..that shouldnt effect what other ones that come along should be. Every race should have the option of what alignment they have. I did see where they said they get their powers from a good deity, but I personally don't think it should be like that.
I would rather they have the abilities like divine grace and lay on hands by virtue of their presence or ability..something like a mystic version of the paladin skills.
+2 Con
+2 Str
-2 Int
-2 Wis
Tail attack, Shapechange, Death Throes, and that's it.
No ECL. So far he seems to be VERY evenly balanced with the other players, except that he rolled some pretty high base stats. 0_0
If the stats balanced (+2 STR, +2 CON, -4 WIS, -4 INT) then it MIGHT be an ECL 0.
But it has a Natural Attack AND SLAs AND Death Throes.
So it's +1 ECL. Sorry d00der.
-TRRW
Originally posted by True_Blue
Where do you see that there are only three left?
I'm rather curious about that too. Anyone care to enlighten us?
In the DLCs was two chapters of draconian. One for player with Kapak and Baaz and your racial stats. And one for Draconian as Creatures for all with abilitys. How can i found the racial stats for Siviak, Aurak and Bozak? And say just not: look in the new bestiary
.If the stats balanced (+2 STR, +2 CON, -4 WIS, -4 INT) then it MIGHT be an ECL 0.
That's if you accept the idea that one physical abilities equals two mental abilities. I find that idea to be incredibly flawed, so that sivak looks about right to me.
However, I would tack on flight, and slightly better stats, and make it ECL 1, just because flight is one of the signature things the Sivak has going for it. They're the only draconians that fly.
Originally posted by pddisc
You forget one important thing; there are only three lightning draconians. 2 of them have levels in paladin, hence favoured class: paladin. The other one took levels in fighter, for the bonus feats.
Okay, okay. You got my attention now too... Where the heck is this information mentioned?
Has anyone had a PC use a noble draconian yet? And if you did, did you actually use the noble draconian the way its stated in the Beastiary? I used one as an NPC in an Ogre leader's dungeon, but he quickly died unforunately. I used him like he was stated in the Beastiary, but I figured he just had levels in barbarian. For a PC, I woul definately change them around. Havent had a PC want to play one yet, so I havent tried to change any of them around.
Severely reduce the ECL of the upper three (Sivak, Aurak, Bozak, Lightning, Flame, and I forget).
This is accomplished by stripping off a good number of the Hit Dice, and an Equal number of the virtual class levels (like the bozak's sorcerer levels or the Lightning draco's paladin levels). As a rule, I would reduce them to two, and just let them take class levels from there.
Also, I think the LAs are slightly overblown, anyway. For example, the lightning draco has an LA of 5, when, aside from the fake paladin levels (which are tied to the hit dice, not the LA), it really doesn't give you anything significant that the half-dragon template doesn't give you. The only difference is trip, and substituting a one-time use of Shocking grasp for the breath weapon, which I think is inferior to a breath-weapon anyway. Oh, and lower stats.
So, using the Lightning Draconian as an example, I would reduce it to ECL 5(2HD, 3LA) or 6(2HD, 4LA) tops. And then let the class levels begin.