Reading through DLCS - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Reading through DLCS

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jun 15, 2004 20:37:26 Have a term and may add to it later on, trying to figure everything out. I've read over half the books and have gamed little and want to start gaming more, but need some hel pon terms such as when it says CL 20th? What does the CL stand for, Class? In reference to the Blue Crystal Staff on page 256.

Would it be okay if I kept asking questions where needed with all of you?
#2
talinthas
Jun 15, 2004 20:44:28 umm. how familiar are you with the rules for dungeons and dragons?
#3
zombiegleemax
Jun 15, 2004 21:00:22 CL is Caster Level. Trust me you can continue to post and you'll get a hole lot of "help"
#4
calabozo
Jun 15, 2004 21:02:20 CL means Caster Level, its the level of the creator of the object, before reading the DLCS you need to read the Players Handbook, and if you want to be a Dungeon Master you also need to read the Dungeon Master Guide and the Monster Manual
#5
zombiegleemax
Jun 15, 2004 21:08:54 Thanks for your help so far, I have all three of those books and have been going through the DMG for a coupel days now reading through it. Was reading through the history of Krynn though just to refresh myself, I want to run the KOD adventure when it comes in the mail. I told a few people to give me a couple of months to get most thigns down pat and I think all the help I need is right here, thank you so much.
For the caster level, does the person who uses the object, does that person need to be level 20? I'm guessing no.
#6
calabozo
Jun 15, 2004 21:23:41 No, the CL information is for times when someone casts dispel magic on you or the object and how strong is the magic.

If you read the targeted dispel in the dispel magic spell description you will see that you need to make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level max +10) against the CL +11 of the obhect or spell in question in this case 20+11 or 31.
#7
karui_kage
Jun 15, 2004 21:35:19 It also means the required caster level to create the object, usually. Not sure for the Blue Crystal Staff, being an artifact an all, but for others it applies.
#8
calabozo
Jun 15, 2004 21:46:49 I think it was clarified in 3.5 that the CL mentioned was the common CL for a randomly generated item but the PC or DM can make the same item with higher or lower caster level the only requirement being the spells required, if you required a 3rd level spell the minumum (sp) caster level would be 5 for a wizard or cleric (not sure for sorceres and mystic, 6 I belive)

At least that was wha I understood with the new rules maybe someone with more experience cares to clarify.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jun 15, 2004 21:51:53 Any page number references would be very helpful also.
#10
zombiegleemax
Jun 15, 2004 22:28:10 Are terms such as CR or EL and other terms discussed in the Player's Handbook or the Dungeon Master Guide? Please don't think I'm not trying to do this on my own, I was just looking over a set up adventure and wanted to know what everything stands for and I'm still reading the DMG as I type.
#11
baron_the_curse
Jun 15, 2004 23:02:18
Originally posted by SadExchange
Thanks for your help so far, I have all three of those books and have been going through the DMG for a coupel days now reading through it. Was reading through the history of Krynn though just to refresh myself, I want to run the KOD adventure when it comes in the mail. I told a few people to give me a couple of months to get most thigns down pat and I think all the help I need is right here, thank you so much.
For the caster level, does the person who uses the object, does that person need to be level 20? I'm guessing no.

I really don't recommend you start running Key of Destiny as a novice. It's formatt is a little hard to follow since it doesn't try to be too linear. You should really try practicing by running shorter adventures first, you can find great ones in Dungeon Magazine.
#12
calabozo
Jun 16, 2004 0:14:05
Originally posted by SadExchange
Are terms such as CR or EL and other terms discussed in the Player's Handbook or the Dungeon Master Guide? Please don't think I'm not trying to do this on my own, I was just looking over a set up adventure and wanted to know what everything stands for and I'm still reading the DMG as I type.

CR Stands for Challenge Rating and EL is Encounter Level both are discused in the Dungeon Master Guide (or DMG for short)

I recomend that you read the Players handbook first and then the DMG, it sets the basis for understandig all the terms of the game.
#13
calabozo
Jun 16, 2004 0:19:13
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I really don't recommend you start running Key of Destiny as a novice. It's formatt is a little hard to follow since it doesn't try to be too linear. You should really try practicing by running shorter adventures first, you can find great ones in Dungeon Magazine.

Ill have to disagree her but thats just my opinion, I think is a great adventure and that if you read it and understand it is easy to follow while giving the liberty to the DM and PC's to create and expand, if I had an adventure like this when I started playing 3rd Ed. with my group some 2 yrs ago I would have a more expirenced role players in my group not a bunch of hack and slashers, after playing the first chapter they have changed their whole idea of a DnD game and are enyoing it.
#14
zombiegleemax
Jun 16, 2004 9:24:50 Just to let you know more info about me, I have played DnD before. I played with a few friends a year ago on different missions and campaigns so I know about playing it from a player's view, except, our DM moved away and I really want to go through KOD, so I want to learn how to DM for those guys in our group who are still here, thanks for all your help and time so far, really appreciate it.
#15
brimstone
Jun 16, 2004 9:33:11
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I really don't recommend you start running Key of Destiny as a novice. It's formatt is a little hard to follow since it doesn't try to be too linear. You should really try practicing by running shorter adventures first, you can find great ones in Dungeon Magazine.

I don't know...actually, I think Key of Destiny would be a great first adventure for a novice. (well...aside from D&D dungeon crawls, of course...but what fun are those? ;))

Anyway...as a first "campaign" I think KoD is a great starting point. (once the errata is completed, since it's missing some pertantent info at the moment) But at least so far (through Chapter 2) it seems very straight forward and linear, although it's definately set up so that it doesn't have to be.

I don't know...I too am a D&D DM novice (having only Narrated in SAGA), so maybe I'm just deluding myself in how well I will do with KoD. :D
#16
cam_banks
Jun 16, 2004 9:34:43
Originally posted by Brimstone
(once the errata is completed, since it's missing some pertantent info at the moment)

While it's going to be helpful to have errata available at some point, the adventure can be run quite capably without it. Honestly.

Cheers,
Cam
#17
brimstone
Jun 16, 2004 9:41:36
Originally posted by Cam Banks
While it's going to be helpful to have errata available at some point, the adventure can be run quite capably without it. Honestly.

Right...but could a novice DM do it? Maybe...I don't know. I feel I know Dragonlance well enough (and have enough extra-related material) that I could fill the gaps just fine even with my DMing deficiency.

I don't know. Either way, it will definately be easier once it's done.
#18
cam_banks
Jun 16, 2004 9:51:10
Originally posted by Brimstone
Right...but could a novice DM do it? Maybe...I don't know. I feel I know Dragonlance well enough (and have enough extra-related material) that I could fill the gaps just fine even with my DMing deficiency.

Absolutely. 90% of being a Dungeon Master is confidence. Even if you don't know all the rules or have all of the background material handy, you can charge on through a session of play making it up as necessary and the players will still have a great time.

A beginner DM should have a good understanding of the rules of the game, know the plot of the adventure, understand more or less how to handle the creatures and NPCs in the adventure, and then work off the reactions of the players to the setting and the encounters within it.

I have run many, many sessions of D&D without much more than a sheet of stat blocks and a couple of set pieces in my head (places I think it would be cool to have a scene, often images or shots from movies etc). What's really important is that the players are having fun, the game is continually moving, and you think on your feet. That's training you would have got from running SAGA, Brim, so you'd know what that's all about. For a beginner, it ends up being something like a cross between a referee and an actor, as you call out DCs for skill checks, put on silly voices for half-ogres, and generally make stuff up.

Cheers,
Cam
#19
baron_the_curse
Jun 16, 2004 12:05:46 Since SAGA is such a drama driven system I think your probably a very fine DM already Brim.

My suggestion to SadExchange to first run a few other adventures is so he does develope confidence and gets a better graps of the game. KoD does have a lot of material novice DMs are going to have trouble remembering while running the adventure and it would be a shame to stumble through the game and have a bad DL experience that might leave a bitter taste.

Hell, I could tell you a tale of long ago when I ran Star Trek: NG (which at this point I firmly understood the system) and the chaos of a suddenly rogue Federation Captain player and a engeneer certain the warp drive can be "patch-up" with duck tape.

Needless to say I dropped that game...
#20
zombiegleemax
Jun 16, 2004 12:09:44 Reading more into all the books, I just want to see if I'm learning this stuff right. I've ordered KOD, but am looking through the preview right now and hd a question. While your adventurers are walking through Pashin, they could encounter "Dove" and then encounter the two thugs (EL 2), if the adventurers fought them and received the XP award, considering they were all level 1 and 2 characters, they would each receive 300 XP for each kill? Is that right, after looking back and forth between KOD preview and DMG.

Also, with the drunken ogre, do I take the stats, like attack rolls and AC from the monster manual?
And how would you go about subduing the ogre instead of killing him for the knights to take away?
#21
Dragonhelm
Jun 16, 2004 12:22:31
Originally posted by Brimstone
Right...but could a novice DM do it? Maybe...I don't know. I feel I know Dragonlance well enough (and have enough extra-related material) that I could fill the gaps just fine even with my DMing deficiency.

I don't know. Either way, it will definately be easier once it's done.

Brim, you'll be fine. You have a great knowledge of Dragonlance and a great love. That's a great part of the battle there.

There are three other big parts of being a DM: story, rules, and entertain. You've got the story already, so that's good. I have no doubts that you'll entertain the players, both with story and with you just being who you are.

That leaves the rules. You do need to be familiar enough with the rules in order to run the game mechanically. If there is something you're not sure of, you can either look it up real quick, or just make a quick judgment on the fly. Not sure how to rule something? See if a saving throw, skill check, or ability check will work. Set the DC accordingly, and you'll be fine. Combat will probably be the hardest part to deal with.

And remember the DM Fudge! :D

Also remember the two biggest rules of gaming:

1. The DM is always right.
2. If the DM is not right, refer to rule #1.

;)
#22
calabozo
Jun 16, 2004 14:55:07
Originally posted by SadExchange
While your adventurers are walking through Pashin, they could encounter "Dove" and then encounter the two thugs (EL 2), if the adventurers fought them and received the XP award, considering they were all level 1 and 2 characters, they would each receive 300 XP for each kill?

Also, with the drunken ogre, do I take the stats, like attack rolls and AC from the monster manual?
And how would you go about subduing the ogre instead of killing him for the knights to take away?

SPOILERS

I dindt use that encounter (Dove) but I can tell you that those 300 XP are divided among the PC`s (if you have 4 players 300/4=75XP each if you have 6 like myself 50XP)

In the Ogre encounter it says that he is unarmed generating attacks of oportunity if attakcking an armed pc and that he takes a -4 penalty to attacks for being drunk aside from that he is like any ogre in the MM, they way used this encounter was that the players bumped into him when hi was exiting the wounded crow and he got mad an swing one to my fighter, after that everything was up to them, my players have good alligned characters and I made it clear that ogres in this part were common and that you cant go about killing every one of them without getting into trouble so they decided to to grapple him insted of drawing swords, a patrol of dark nights was nerby and saw the whole thing they tool the ogre away and leave the players in peace, later that ogre helped them as the adventure suggests.
#23
brimstone
Jun 18, 2004 12:13:46
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Absolutely. 90% of being a Dungeon Master is confidence.

Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Since SAGA is such a drama driven system I think your probably a very fine DM already Brim.

Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Brim, you'll be fine. You have a great knowledge of Dragonlance and a great love. That's a great part of the battle there

Well, I just wanted to thank everyone for their votes of confidence.

I've gotten some excellent DMing information the past couple weeks, and like I said, the votes of confidence are very much appreciated. I'm...well, I wouldn't say nervous...anxious maybe? Well, what ever it is, I'm surprised by it. I guess I've got a show to put on, and with them being complete D&D neophytes, it feels like a lot. The first couple sessions could make or break their opinions on the game (since they're already possibly starting out sub-par)

Anyway...I just wanted thanks, and I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 15, 2004 20:37:26	Have a term and may add to it later on, trying to figure everything out. I've read over half the books and have gamed little and want to start gaming more, but need some hel pon terms such as when it says CL 20th? What does the CL stand for, Class? In reference to the Blue Crystal Staff on page 256. Would it be okay if I kept asking questions where needed with all of you?
#2 talinthas Jun 15, 2004 20:44:28	umm. how familiar are you with the rules for dungeons and dragons?
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 15, 2004 21:00:22	CL is Caster Level. Trust me you can continue to post and you'll get a hole lot of "help"
#4 calabozo Jun 15, 2004 21:02:20	CL means Caster Level, its the level of the creator of the object, before reading the DLCS you need to read the Players Handbook, and if you want to be a Dungeon Master you also need to read the Dungeon Master Guide and the Monster Manual
#5 zombiegleemax Jun 15, 2004 21:08:54	Thanks for your help so far, I have all three of those books and have been going through the DMG for a coupel days now reading through it. Was reading through the history of Krynn though just to refresh myself, I want to run the KOD adventure when it comes in the mail. I told a few people to give me a couple of months to get most thigns down pat and I think all the help I need is right here, thank you so much. For the caster level, does the person who uses the object, does that person need to be level 20? I'm guessing no.
#6 calabozo Jun 15, 2004 21:23:41	No, the CL information is for times when someone casts dispel magic on you or the object and how strong is the magic. If you read the targeted dispel in the dispel magic spell description you will see that you need to make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level max +10) against the CL +11 of the obhect or spell in question in this case 20+11 or 31.
#7 karui_kage Jun 15, 2004 21:35:19	It also means the required caster level to create the object, usually. Not sure for the Blue Crystal Staff, being an artifact an all, but for others it applies.
#8 calabozo Jun 15, 2004 21:46:49	I think it was clarified in 3.5 that the CL mentioned was the common CL for a randomly generated item but the PC or DM can make the same item with higher or lower caster level the only requirement being the spells required, if you required a 3rd level spell the minumum (sp) caster level would be 5 for a wizard or cleric (not sure for sorceres and mystic, 6 I belive) At least that was wha I understood with the new rules maybe someone with more experience cares to clarify.
#9 zombiegleemax Jun 15, 2004 21:51:53	Any page number references would be very helpful also.
#10 zombiegleemax Jun 15, 2004 22:28:10	Are terms such as CR or EL and other terms discussed in the Player's Handbook or the Dungeon Master Guide? Please don't think I'm not trying to do this on my own, I was just looking over a set up adventure and wanted to know what everything stands for and I'm still reading the DMG as I type.
#11 baron_the_curse Jun 15, 2004 23:02:18	Originally posted by SadExchange Thanks for your help so far, I have all three of those books and have been going through the DMG for a coupel days now reading through it. Was reading through the history of Krynn though just to refresh myself, I want to run the KOD adventure when it comes in the mail. I told a few people to give me a couple of months to get most thigns down pat and I think all the help I need is right here, thank you so much. For the caster level, does the person who uses the object, does that person need to be level 20? I'm guessing no. I really don't recommend you start running Key of Destiny as a novice. It's formatt is a little hard to follow since it doesn't try to be too linear. You should really try practicing by running shorter adventures first, you can find great ones in Dungeon Magazine.
#12 calabozo Jun 16, 2004 0:14:05	Originally posted by SadExchange Are terms such as CR or EL and other terms discussed in the Player's Handbook or the Dungeon Master Guide? Please don't think I'm not trying to do this on my own, I was just looking over a set up adventure and wanted to know what everything stands for and I'm still reading the DMG as I type. CR Stands for Challenge Rating and EL is Encounter Level both are discused in the Dungeon Master Guide (or DMG for short) I recomend that you read the Players handbook first and then the DMG, it sets the basis for understandig all the terms of the game.
#13 calabozo Jun 16, 2004 0:19:13	Originally posted by Baron the Curse I really don't recommend you start running Key of Destiny as a novice. It's formatt is a little hard to follow since it doesn't try to be too linear. You should really try practicing by running shorter adventures first, you can find great ones in Dungeon Magazine. Ill have to disagree her but thats just my opinion, I think is a great adventure and that if you read it and understand it is easy to follow while giving the liberty to the DM and PC's to create and expand, if I had an adventure like this when I started playing 3rd Ed. with my group some 2 yrs ago I would have a more expirenced role players in my group not a bunch of hack and slashers, after playing the first chapter they have changed their whole idea of a DnD game and are enyoing it.
#14 zombiegleemax Jun 16, 2004 9:24:50	Just to let you know more info about me, I have played DnD before. I played with a few friends a year ago on different missions and campaigns so I know about playing it from a player's view, except, our DM moved away and I really want to go through KOD, so I want to learn how to DM for those guys in our group who are still here, thanks for all your help and time so far, really appreciate it.
#15 brimstone Jun 16, 2004 9:33:11	Originally posted by Baron the Curse I really don't recommend you start running Key of Destiny as a novice. It's formatt is a little hard to follow since it doesn't try to be too linear. You should really try practicing by running shorter adventures first, you can find great ones in Dungeon Magazine. I don't know...actually, I think Key of Destiny would be a great first adventure for a novice. (well...aside from D&D dungeon crawls, of course...but what fun are those? ;)) Anyway...as a first "campaign" I think KoD is a great starting point. (once the errata is completed, since it's missing some pertantent info at the moment) But at least so far (through Chapter 2) it seems very straight forward and linear, although it's definately set up so that it doesn't have to be. I don't know...I too am a D&D DM novice (having only Narrated in SAGA), so maybe I'm just deluding myself in how well I will do with KoD. :D
#16 cam_banks Jun 16, 2004 9:34:43	Originally posted by Brimstone (once the errata is completed, since it's missing some pertantent info at the moment) While it's going to be helpful to have errata available at some point, the adventure can be run quite capably without it. Honestly. Cheers, Cam
#17 brimstone Jun 16, 2004 9:41:36	Originally posted by Cam Banks While it's going to be helpful to have errata available at some point, the adventure can be run quite capably without it. Honestly. Right...but could a novice DM do it? Maybe...I don't know. I feel I know Dragonlance well enough (and have enough extra-related material) that I could fill the gaps just fine even with my DMing deficiency. I don't know. Either way, it will definately be easier once it's done.
#18 cam_banks Jun 16, 2004 9:51:10	Originally posted by Brimstone Right...but could a novice DM do it? Maybe...I don't know. I feel I know Dragonlance well enough (and have enough extra-related material) that I could fill the gaps just fine even with my DMing deficiency. Absolutely. 90% of being a Dungeon Master is confidence. Even if you don't know all the rules or have all of the background material handy, you can charge on through a session of play making it up as necessary and the players will still have a great time. A beginner DM should have a good understanding of the rules of the game, know the plot of the adventure, understand more or less how to handle the creatures and NPCs in the adventure, and then work off the reactions of the players to the setting and the encounters within it. I have run many, many sessions of D&D without much more than a sheet of stat blocks and a couple of set pieces in my head (places I think it would be cool to have a scene, often images or shots from movies etc). What's really important is that the players are having fun, the game is continually moving, and you think on your feet. That's training you would have got from running SAGA, Brim, so you'd know what that's all about. For a beginner, it ends up being something like a cross between a referee and an actor, as you call out DCs for skill checks, put on silly voices for half-ogres, and generally make stuff up. Cheers, Cam
#19 baron_the_curse Jun 16, 2004 12:05:46	Since SAGA is such a drama driven system I think your probably a very fine DM already Brim. My suggestion to SadExchange to first run a few other adventures is so he does develope confidence and gets a better graps of the game. KoD does have a lot of material novice DMs are going to have trouble remembering while running the adventure and it would be a shame to stumble through the game and have a bad DL experience that might leave a bitter taste. Hell, I could tell you a tale of long ago when I ran Star Trek: NG (which at this point I firmly understood the system) and the chaos of a suddenly rogue Federation Captain player and a engeneer certain the warp drive can be "patch-up" with duck tape. Needless to say I dropped that game...
#20 zombiegleemax Jun 16, 2004 12:09:44	Reading more into all the books, I just want to see if I'm learning this stuff right. I've ordered KOD, but am looking through the preview right now and hd a question. While your adventurers are walking through Pashin, they could encounter "Dove" and then encounter the two thugs (EL 2), if the adventurers fought them and received the XP award, considering they were all level 1 and 2 characters, they would each receive 300 XP for each kill? Is that right, after looking back and forth between KOD preview and DMG. Also, with the drunken ogre, do I take the stats, like attack rolls and AC from the monster manual? And how would you go about subduing the ogre instead of killing him for the knights to take away?
#21 Dragonhelm Jun 16, 2004 12:22:31	Originally posted by Brimstone Right...but could a novice DM do it? Maybe...I don't know. I feel I know Dragonlance well enough (and have enough extra-related material) that I could fill the gaps just fine even with my DMing deficiency. I don't know. Either way, it will definately be easier once it's done. Brim, you'll be fine. You have a great knowledge of Dragonlance and a great love. That's a great part of the battle there. There are three other big parts of being a DM: story, rules, and entertain. You've got the story already, so that's good. I have no doubts that you'll entertain the players, both with story and with you just being who you are. That leaves the rules. You do need to be familiar enough with the rules in order to run the game mechanically. If there is something you're not sure of, you can either look it up real quick, or just make a quick judgment on the fly. Not sure how to rule something? See if a saving throw, skill check, or ability check will work. Set the DC accordingly, and you'll be fine. Combat will probably be the hardest part to deal with. And remember the DM Fudge! :D Also remember the two biggest rules of gaming: 1. The DM is always right. 2. If the DM is not right, refer to rule #1. ;)
#22 calabozo Jun 16, 2004 14:55:07	Originally posted by SadExchange While your adventurers are walking through Pashin, they could encounter "Dove" and then encounter the two thugs (EL 2), if the adventurers fought them and received the XP award, considering they were all level 1 and 2 characters, they would each receive 300 XP for each kill? Also, with the drunken ogre, do I take the stats, like attack rolls and AC from the monster manual? And how would you go about subduing the ogre instead of killing him for the knights to take away? SPOILERS I dindt use that encounter (Dove) but I can tell you that those 300 XP are divided among the PC`s (if you have 4 players 300/4=75XP each if you have 6 like myself 50XP) In the Ogre encounter it says that he is unarmed generating attacks of oportunity if attakcking an armed pc and that he takes a -4 penalty to attacks for being drunk aside from that he is like any ogre in the MM, they way used this encounter was that the players bumped into him when hi was exiting the wounded crow and he got mad an swing one to my fighter, after that everything was up to them, my players have good alligned characters and I made it clear that ogres in this part were common and that you cant go about killing every one of them without getting into trouble so they decided to to grapple him insted of drawing swords, a patrol of dark nights was nerby and saw the whole thing they tool the ogre away and leave the players in peace, later that ogre helped them as the adventure suggests.
#23 brimstone Jun 18, 2004 12:13:46	Originally posted by Cam Banks Absolutely. 90% of being a Dungeon Master is confidence. Originally posted by Baron the Curse Since SAGA is such a drama driven system I think your probably a very fine DM already Brim. Originally posted by Dragonhelm Brim, you'll be fine. You have a great knowledge of Dragonlance and a great love. That's a great part of the battle there Well, I just wanted to thank everyone for their votes of confidence. I've gotten some excellent DMing information the past couple weeks, and like I said, the votes of confidence are very much appreciated. I'm...well, I wouldn't say nervous...anxious maybe? Well, what ever it is, I'm surprised by it. I guess I've got a show to put on, and with them being complete D&D neophytes, it feels like a lot. The first couple sessions could make or break their opinions on the game (since they're already possibly starting out sub-par) Anyway...I just wanted thanks, and I'll let y'all know how it goes.