Human pantheons question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Human pantheons question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jun 19, 2004 9:13:33 Which human pantheons do the following gods belong to: Boccob, Ehlonna, Incabulos, Joramy, Obad-Hai, Olidammara, Ralishaz, Rao, Saint Cuthbert, Tharizdun, Trithereon, Wastri, and Zagyg?

--thank you, my LGG doesn't tell me which pantheons they're part of NB
#2
zombiegleemax
Jun 19, 2004 9:52:20 According to the 2e Greyhawk player's guide, this is what I see:

Boccob - commonly accepted across the Flanaess, actual origin irrelevant.
Ehlonna - the same as Boccob(referred to as common from here).
Incabulos - common.
Joramy - common.
Obad-Hai - Flan/common.
Olidammara - common.
Ralishaz - common.
Rao - Flan/common.
Saint Cuthbert - common.
Tharizdun - Unknown/mysterious origin.
Trithereon - common.
Wastri - Unknown/mysterious origin.
Zagyg -Unknown/mysterious origin (eh?).

Anyway, that is what the 2ePG says. If I come across a better source as the day goes on, I will post here.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jun 19, 2004 10:00:54 Wastri: I would say none. He is god of amphibious and reptilian types, even though he favors the human race.

Zagyg: He is actually of Suliouse and Oeridian mix himself...

Obad-Hai: deffinately Flan

Boccob: I don't think he cares...

Trithereon: I believe he has a following among the northern suel barbarians.

Tharizdun: Personally, I seem to feel that every pantheon has a version of him, but I don't think he was ever applied to any given pantheon, but the rumor is the Suel Scarlet Brotherhood worship him as a whole, (false in my opinion however.)

Rao: Flan, but adapted and spread to many cultures now. I'm surprised Pelor doesn't put him in his place (lol, yah right).

Saint Cuthbert: These hero-gods are tough ones, I'd say Oeridean if I had to choose. There's actually a huge discusssion lost somewhere in this forum where I believe it was Brad Penney who came up with some excellent theories about Mr. Cudgel, he needs to submit them to CF.

Ehlonna: I'd say Oeridean but I don't understand why she hasn't been given over to the elves yet...

Incabulos: I believe he is Flan being that Nerull is Oerid.
#4
robbastard
Jun 19, 2004 14:27:00
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
Which human pantheons do the following gods belong to: Boccob, Ehlonna, Incabulos, Joramy, Obad-Hai, Olidammara, Ralishaz, Rao, Saint Cuthbert, Tharizdun, Trithereon, Wastri, and Zagyg?

Boccob's origins haven't been pinned down, but it's highly unlikely that he's Sueloise, since Wee Jas is their god of magic. He may actually be an amalgam of different cultural gods of magic, each of whom bore enough similarities to make him universal (such as Artemis/Diana or Marduk/Assur). If I were to assign an origin to Boccob, I'd make him Oeridian, though he'd be identified with a similar Flan (& perhaps Baklunish) deity, some of who's features & stories he'd assume unpon replacing said deity. A similar situation happened with the old Oeridian sun gol, Sol, who Pelor replaced/became (though one could also argue that Sol was always Pelor, under a different name).

Ehlonna also has undetermined origins. The Living Geoff people have shoehorned her into the Flan pantheon, but there really isn't any published canon source supporting this. I like to think of her as having elven origins, as Ehlenestra, either as a rogue Selderine or an ascended mortal, with strong ties to the Valley elves. This would explain why she has a strong following in the Valley of the Mage but the rest of the Selderine don't.

Incabulos, Obad-Hai, & Rao are Flan (as is Nerull, Abysslin).

Joramy isn't specifically connected to a pantheon. However, the LGG description of her, IIRC, describes two different forms--one sounding much like a Flan woman, the other like an Oeridian woman. I'd consider her Flan (or perhaps even Olman), as the Oeridians migrated to the Flanaess from the area around Ull, which to my knowledge doesn't have any volcanoes.

Olidammara has no specified pantheon, but seems to fit best with Oeridian culture. Regardless, it's unlikely he's Suel, as they already have both a god of music (Lydia) & a god of roguery (Norebo).

Ralishaz has no specified origin, though he's probably evolved as an amalgam of various trickster gods, principally Flan & Oeridian (Norebo is the Suel god of chance).

St Cuthbert has no listed pantheon. I like to think of him as an ascended mortal, from a world other than Oerth--perhaps even the real St Cuthbert, who was a 7th century bishop in England.

Tharizdun has no pantheon. I like to think of him as common to all pantheons, a universal primal, cthonic force from which all beings originated.

Tritheron isn't tied to a pantheon, but his militant nature makes him a good Oeridian fit.

Wastri & Zagyg are both ascended mortals. Wastri is pureblooded Suel, while I think Zagyg is Suel/Oeridian.
#5
Mortepierre
Jun 19, 2004 15:00:08 Some of those gods (Boccob, ..) predate the current pantheons. Or perhaps they were first worshipped by a civilization now reduced to dust.

Some (Zagyg, ..) came into being after the races who worship the different pantheons started to mingle. Thus, they don't really "belong" in any pantheon. Their primary loyalty (assuming they feel any) lies with the god(s) who "sponsored" them on the road to godhood.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jun 19, 2004 15:52:17
Flan (as is Nerull, Abysslin).

Vice-Versa
#7
zombiegleemax
Jun 20, 2004 7:43:51 The livinggreyhawk site archives have a serachable database of every LG god. The info on the gods you asked about is listed below (plus my commentary)

Boccob - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(As magic is a primal force on Oerth. Boccob's going to be present in all cultures either in different guises or just as Boccob.)

Ehlonna - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess.

(Ehlonna is a funny one...I'd have said she'd have been some sort of corssover between the olve and the Flan, probbaly dating from a time when they had some sort of significal cultural contacts. Then after the Great Migrations she was acepted and absorbed by the invading groups - hence her common status)

Incabulos - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess.

(I seem to remember that the 83 set had "unknown origin" for Incabulos, suggesting a more exotic origin.)

Joramy - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess.

(She's pretty much Flan as far as I know - but has been adopted by the other cultures since)

Obad-Hai - Flan and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(Flan originally, then absorbed like Beory, Pelor and Rao into the invading cultures)

Olidammara - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(The SB sourcebook mentions a site in the Tilvanot Peninsula where Olidamara's symbol is etched into the ground along with a bunch of Flan gods - which would seem to suggest a Flan origin. Unless his image has evolved since the Oerids arrive, he'd strike me as being more Oeridian though...)

Ralishaz - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(He's worshiped in Ull IIRC, so he'd likely be Oeridian originally in that case).

Rao - Flan and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(Definately Flan and then adopted by the invaders - or perhaps like Solan they already had a version of him - hard to call)

Saint Cuthbert - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(seems Oeridian, and the suggestion is that he might have attained godhood just before or after the Great Migrations; since commonly accepted)

Tharizdun - Unknown/mysterious origin.

(IMO, he's the prrimordial chaos from which everything sprang. Every culture will have some representation of him - though you can see some cultures making an effort to erase him from myth. After all you can't work to release a god you've never heard of...)

Trithereon - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(Strikes me as Oeridian originally).

Wastri - Unknown/mysterious origin.

(There's a hint in the SB source book that Wastri was once a Suel follower of Kevali Mauk, the founder of the Scarlet Brotherhood. In any case, he arose after the Great Migrations in all likelihood).

Zagyg - Unknown and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess

(Well - the common theory is that he's Zagig Yragerne, the former Lord Mayor of Greyhawk City ascended through the patronage of Boocob, but perhaps that's not common knowledge among the peoples of the Flanaess...?)

P.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 19, 2004 9:13:33	Which human pantheons do the following gods belong to: Boccob, Ehlonna, Incabulos, Joramy, Obad-Hai, Olidammara, Ralishaz, Rao, Saint Cuthbert, Tharizdun, Trithereon, Wastri, and Zagyg? --thank you, my LGG doesn't tell me which pantheons they're part of NB
#2 zombiegleemax Jun 19, 2004 9:52:20	According to the 2e Greyhawk player's guide, this is what I see: Boccob - commonly accepted across the Flanaess, actual origin irrelevant. Ehlonna - the same as Boccob(referred to as common from here). Incabulos - common. Joramy - common. Obad-Hai - Flan/common. Olidammara - common. Ralishaz - common. Rao - Flan/common. Saint Cuthbert - common. Tharizdun - Unknown/mysterious origin. Trithereon - common. Wastri - Unknown/mysterious origin. Zagyg -Unknown/mysterious origin (eh?). Anyway, that is what the 2ePG says. If I come across a better source as the day goes on, I will post here.
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 19, 2004 10:00:54	Wastri: I would say none. He is god of amphibious and reptilian types, even though he favors the human race. Zagyg: He is actually of Suliouse and Oeridian mix himself... Obad-Hai: deffinately Flan Boccob: I don't think he cares... Trithereon: I believe he has a following among the northern suel barbarians. Tharizdun: Personally, I seem to feel that every pantheon has a version of him, but I don't think he was ever applied to any given pantheon, but the rumor is the Suel Scarlet Brotherhood worship him as a whole, (false in my opinion however.) Rao: Flan, but adapted and spread to many cultures now. I'm surprised Pelor doesn't put him in his place (lol, yah right). Saint Cuthbert: These hero-gods are tough ones, I'd say Oeridean if I had to choose. There's actually a huge discusssion lost somewhere in this forum where I believe it was Brad Penney who came up with some excellent theories about Mr. Cudgel, he needs to submit them to CF. Ehlonna: I'd say Oeridean but I don't understand why she hasn't been given over to the elves yet... Incabulos: I believe he is Flan being that Nerull is Oerid.
#4 robbastard Jun 19, 2004 14:27:00	Originally posted by Nero's Boot Which human pantheons do the following gods belong to: Boccob, Ehlonna, Incabulos, Joramy, Obad-Hai, Olidammara, Ralishaz, Rao, Saint Cuthbert, Tharizdun, Trithereon, Wastri, and Zagyg? Boccob's origins haven't been pinned down, but it's highly unlikely that he's Sueloise, since Wee Jas is their god of magic. He may actually be an amalgam of different cultural gods of magic, each of whom bore enough similarities to make him universal (such as Artemis/Diana or Marduk/Assur). If I were to assign an origin to Boccob, I'd make him Oeridian, though he'd be identified with a similar Flan (& perhaps Baklunish) deity, some of who's features & stories he'd assume unpon replacing said deity. A similar situation happened with the old Oeridian sun gol, Sol, who Pelor replaced/became (though one could also argue that Sol was always Pelor, under a different name). Ehlonna also has undetermined origins. The Living Geoff people have shoehorned her into the Flan pantheon, but there really isn't any published canon source supporting this. I like to think of her as having elven origins, as Ehlenestra, either as a rogue Selderine or an ascended mortal, with strong ties to the Valley elves. This would explain why she has a strong following in the Valley of the Mage but the rest of the Selderine don't. Incabulos, Obad-Hai, & Rao are Flan (as is Nerull, Abysslin). Joramy isn't specifically connected to a pantheon. However, the LGG description of her, IIRC, describes two different forms--one sounding much like a Flan woman, the other like an Oeridian woman. I'd consider her Flan (or perhaps even Olman), as the Oeridians migrated to the Flanaess from the area around Ull, which to my knowledge doesn't have any volcanoes. Olidammara has no specified pantheon, but seems to fit best with Oeridian culture. Regardless, it's unlikely he's Suel, as they already have both a god of music (Lydia) & a god of roguery (Norebo). Ralishaz has no specified origin, though he's probably evolved as an amalgam of various trickster gods, principally Flan & Oeridian (Norebo is the Suel god of chance). St Cuthbert has no listed pantheon. I like to think of him as an ascended mortal, from a world other than Oerth--perhaps even the real St Cuthbert, who was a 7th century bishop in England. Tharizdun has no pantheon. I like to think of him as common to all pantheons, a universal primal, cthonic force from which all beings originated. Tritheron isn't tied to a pantheon, but his militant nature makes him a good Oeridian fit. Wastri & Zagyg are both ascended mortals. Wastri is pureblooded Suel, while I think Zagyg is Suel/Oeridian.
#5 Mortepierre Jun 19, 2004 15:00:08	Some of those gods (Boccob, ..) predate the current pantheons. Or perhaps they were first worshipped by a civilization now reduced to dust. Some (Zagyg, ..) came into being after the races who worship the different pantheons started to mingle. Thus, they don't really "belong" in any pantheon. Their primary loyalty (assuming they feel any) lies with the god(s) who "sponsored" them on the road to godhood.
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 19, 2004 15:52:17	Flan (as is Nerull, Abysslin). Vice-Versa
#7 zombiegleemax Jun 20, 2004 7:43:51	The livinggreyhawk site archives have a serachable database of every LG god. The info on the gods you asked about is listed below (plus my commentary) Boccob - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (As magic is a primal force on Oerth. Boccob's going to be present in all cultures either in different guises or just as Boccob.) Ehlonna - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess. (Ehlonna is a funny one...I'd have said she'd have been some sort of corssover between the olve and the Flan, probbaly dating from a time when they had some sort of significal cultural contacts. Then after the Great Migrations she was acepted and absorbed by the invading groups - hence her common status) Incabulos - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess. (I seem to remember that the 83 set had "unknown origin" for Incabulos, suggesting a more exotic origin.) Joramy - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess. (She's pretty much Flan as far as I know - but has been adopted by the other cultures since) Obad-Hai - Flan and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (Flan originally, then absorbed like Beory, Pelor and Rao into the invading cultures) Olidammara - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (The SB sourcebook mentions a site in the Tilvanot Peninsula where Olidamara's symbol is etched into the ground along with a bunch of Flan gods - which would seem to suggest a Flan origin. Unless his image has evolved since the Oerids arrive, he'd strike me as being more Oeridian though...) Ralishaz - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (He's worshiped in Ull IIRC, so he'd likely be Oeridian originally in that case). Rao - Flan and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (Definately Flan and then adopted by the invaders - or perhaps like Solan they already had a version of him - hard to call) Saint Cuthbert - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (seems Oeridian, and the suggestion is that he might have attained godhood just before or after the Great Migrations; since commonly accepted) Tharizdun - Unknown/mysterious origin. (IMO, he's the prrimordial chaos from which everything sprang. Every culture will have some representation of him - though you can see some cultures making an effort to erase him from myth. After all you can't work to release a god you've never heard of...) Trithereon - Commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (Strikes me as Oeridian originally). Wastri - Unknown/mysterious origin. (There's a hint in the SB source book that Wastri was once a Suel follower of Kevali Mauk, the founder of the Scarlet Brotherhood. In any case, he arose after the Great Migrations in all likelihood). Zagyg - Unknown and commonly accepted across all the Flanaess (Well - the common theory is that he's Zagig Yragerne, the former Lord Mayor of Greyhawk City ascended through the patronage of Boocob, but perhaps that's not common knowledge among the peoples of the Flanaess...?) P.