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Petitioners and the Inner Planes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rikutatis
Jun 19, 2004 19:51:51 A Guide to the Astral states that when mortals die it is through the conduits that they end up in their deity's homeplane (or the plane of their chosen alignment). Supposedly, powers granted to clerics and priests also travel through the conduits.

But the powers that choose to live in the Inner Planes also attract petitioners to them. Not to mention the few powers that make their home in the Ethereal. And there are no astral conduits linking the Prime and the Inner Planes. Did anyone ever give this any thought?

What's the relation of the astral conduits with the deities and the petitioners, if any at all?
#2
ripvanwormer
Jun 19, 2004 22:09:02 It's possible that souls attracted to the inner planar gods simply take elemental vortices there, as these are the innerplanar equivalents of astral conduits.

You could also use planar conduits, which don't necessarily travel through the Astral. Planar conduits have to be used when a god lives in an outerplanar layer other than the first anyway.
#3
gray_richardson
Jun 20, 2004 10:33:43 In 3E the inner planes are no longer connected through the Ethereal but through the Astral as well.

If you prefer to use 2E rules then maybe you could postulate Ethereal conduits or something similar. The Astral is riddled with them because so many souls use it to get to their afterlives and so many deities grant prayers or spells through them.

But there are much, much fewer petitioners to the elemental planes, and a lot less spell granting going on from those planes, so the ethereal conduits might be pretty rare. Not surprising no one talks about 'em or mentions seeing one.
#4
sildatorak
Jun 20, 2004 20:52:02
Originally posted by Rikutatis
A Guide to the Astral states that when mortals die it is through the conduits that they end up in their deity's homeplane (or the plane of their chosen alignment). Supposedly, powers granted to clerics and priests also travel through the conduits.

Sounds like a bunch of screed to me, even if it is official screed. Considering that astral conduits tend to anchor their prime material ends away from civilization, it seems just as likely to me that a dead soul could just do something similar to Plane Shift as easily as (if not easier than) somehow intuitively knowing where the nearest conduit is and traveling there over who knows how many miles?

The folk of Zakhara are a fine example. They believe that the soul departs the body in the form of a bird that flies skyward to paradise. The dark of it is that it seems quite likely, since those that are too weighed down by their earthly (Torilly?) lives sometimes stick around as ghostly birds. This could be consistent with them using conduits, but I think they're probably making the transition without relying on outside means.

In addition, there are plenty of examples of wizardly magic that can penetrate the Silvery Void (Summon Monster, anyone?), and they are grasshoppers compared to even a demi-power. Considering that magic that requires astral and ethereal connections functions for priests even when they are not on those planes with the proper connections, I'd wager merts to meatpies that the powers are just mucking about with planar connections in their own unique way.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jun 23, 2004 5:56:39 HMMMMM....

Hadn't thought about it before, but what happens to Cleric of X when he or she dies while adventuring on an inner plane? Under the MotP it could depart via the Astral. Under the 2E system how does it get to the proper outer plane?

Maybe Planar Conduits are the answer, and the Astral conduits are just the most obvious example of it.

Of course I'm sure some barmie could postulate that a soul that dies on an inner plane gives rise to the creation of a new elemental of the approriate type.

-Eric Gorman
#6
sildatorak
Jun 23, 2004 10:55:41
Originally posted by HvF
Of course I'm sure some barmie could postulate that a soul that dies on an inner plane gives rise to the creation of a new elemental of the approriate type.

Nope. At best that new soul would taint an elemental toward good or evil. ;)

I personally think that if your power is willing to give you spells that break the local rules, that power will probably be willing to twist the rules a little more to get your soul to its realm.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jun 24, 2004 11:20:47
Originally posted by HvF
Hadn't thought about it before, but what happens to Cleric of X when he or she dies while adventuring on an inner plane? Under the MotP it could depart via the Astral. Under the 2E system how does it get to the proper outer plane?

Maybe Planar Conduits are the answer, and the Astral conduits are just the most obvious example of it.

I'm not too sure about this, but I recall that when Adon died, Mystra grumbled about having to wait for his soul to travel through the elemental plane before reaching the Fugue Plane. It's from Crucible FR novel, still 2E then, so it used the Great Wheel.

So, I think it's probably safe to assume planar conduits as the answer.
#8
ripvanwormer
Jun 24, 2004 13:24:56
Originally posted by HvF
HMMMMM....

Hadn't thought about it before, but what happens to Cleric of X when he or she dies while adventuring on an inner plane?

They travel to the border ethereal (we know souls can do that, since that's where ghosts live), and from there they go to the Deep Ethereal, wander until they find a border ethereal region of the Material Plane. Then they remanifest in the Material Plane and ride an astral conduit to the appropriate realm.

So let's assume souls can become ethereal at will. That explains the whole thread.
#9
bob_the_efreet
Jun 24, 2004 14:16:24
Originally posted by ripvanwormer
So let's assume souls can become ethereal at will. That explains the whole thread.

I was thinking a certain rumoured Ordial plane would explain the whole thread, although Occam's Razor compels me to stick with your solution.
#10
sildatorak
Jun 24, 2004 15:28:12
Originally posted by Bob the Efreet
Occam's Razor compels me to stick with your solution.

Or the souls can planeshift one ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rikutatis Jun 19, 2004 19:51:51	A Guide to the Astral states that when mortals die it is through the conduits that they end up in their deity's homeplane (or the plane of their chosen alignment). Supposedly, powers granted to clerics and priests also travel through the conduits. But the powers that choose to live in the Inner Planes also attract petitioners to them. Not to mention the few powers that make their home in the Ethereal. And there are no astral conduits linking the Prime and the Inner Planes. Did anyone ever give this any thought? What's the relation of the astral conduits with the deities and the petitioners, if any at all?
#2 ripvanwormer Jun 19, 2004 22:09:02	It's possible that souls attracted to the inner planar gods simply take elemental vortices there, as these are the innerplanar equivalents of astral conduits. You could also use planar conduits, which don't necessarily travel through the Astral. Planar conduits have to be used when a god lives in an outerplanar layer other than the first anyway.
#3 gray_richardson Jun 20, 2004 10:33:43	In 3E the inner planes are no longer connected through the Ethereal but through the Astral as well. If you prefer to use 2E rules then maybe you could postulate Ethereal conduits or something similar. The Astral is riddled with them because so many souls use it to get to their afterlives and so many deities grant prayers or spells through them. But there are much, much fewer petitioners to the elemental planes, and a lot less spell granting going on from those planes, so the ethereal conduits might be pretty rare. Not surprising no one talks about 'em or mentions seeing one.
#4 sildatorak Jun 20, 2004 20:52:02	Originally posted by Rikutatis A Guide to the Astral states that when mortals die it is through the conduits that they end up in their deity's homeplane (or the plane of their chosen alignment). Supposedly, powers granted to clerics and priests also travel through the conduits. Sounds like a bunch of screed to me, even if it is official screed. Considering that astral conduits tend to anchor their prime material ends away from civilization, it seems just as likely to me that a dead soul could just do something similar to Plane Shift as easily as (if not easier than) somehow intuitively knowing where the nearest conduit is and traveling there over who knows how many miles? The folk of Zakhara are a fine example. They believe that the soul departs the body in the form of a bird that flies skyward to paradise. The dark of it is that it seems quite likely, since those that are too weighed down by their earthly (Torilly?) lives sometimes stick around as ghostly birds. This could be consistent with them using conduits, but I think they're probably making the transition without relying on outside means. In addition, there are plenty of examples of wizardly magic that can penetrate the Silvery Void (Summon Monster, anyone?), and they are grasshoppers compared to even a demi-power. Considering that magic that requires astral and ethereal connections functions for priests even when they are not on those planes with the proper connections, I'd wager merts to meatpies that the powers are just mucking about with planar connections in their own unique way.
#5 zombiegleemax Jun 23, 2004 5:56:39	HMMMMM.... Hadn't thought about it before, but what happens to Cleric of X when he or she dies while adventuring on an inner plane? Under the MotP it could depart via the Astral. Under the 2E system how does it get to the proper outer plane? Maybe Planar Conduits are the answer, and the Astral conduits are just the most obvious example of it. Of course I'm sure some barmie could postulate that a soul that dies on an inner plane gives rise to the creation of a new elemental of the approriate type. -Eric Gorman
#6 sildatorak Jun 23, 2004 10:55:41	Originally posted by HvF Of course I'm sure some barmie could postulate that a soul that dies on an inner plane gives rise to the creation of a new elemental of the approriate type. Nope. At best that new soul would taint an elemental toward good or evil. ;) I personally think that if your power is willing to give you spells that break the local rules, that power will probably be willing to twist the rules a little more to get your soul to its realm.
#7 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2004 11:20:47	Originally posted by HvF Hadn't thought about it before, but what happens to Cleric of X when he or she dies while adventuring on an inner plane? Under the MotP it could depart via the Astral. Under the 2E system how does it get to the proper outer plane? Maybe Planar Conduits are the answer, and the Astral conduits are just the most obvious example of it. I'm not too sure about this, but I recall that when Adon died, Mystra grumbled about having to wait for his soul to travel through the elemental plane before reaching the Fugue Plane. It's from Crucible FR novel, still 2E then, so it used the Great Wheel. So, I think it's probably safe to assume planar conduits as the answer.
#8 ripvanwormer Jun 24, 2004 13:24:56	Originally posted by HvF HMMMMM.... Hadn't thought about it before, but what happens to Cleric of X when he or she dies while adventuring on an inner plane? They travel to the border ethereal (we know souls can do that, since that's where ghosts live), and from there they go to the Deep Ethereal, wander until they find a border ethereal region of the Material Plane. Then they remanifest in the Material Plane and ride an astral conduit to the appropriate realm. So let's assume souls can become ethereal at will. That explains the whole thread.
#9 bob_the_efreet Jun 24, 2004 14:16:24	Originally posted by ripvanwormer So let's assume souls can become ethereal at will. That explains the whole thread. I was thinking a certain rumoured Ordial plane would explain the whole thread, although Occam's Razor compels me to stick with your solution.
#10 sildatorak Jun 24, 2004 15:28:12	Originally posted by Bob the Efreet Occam's Razor compels me to stick with your solution. Or the souls can planeshift one ;)