What happens after 591CY?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

caeruleus

Jun 19, 2004 20:25:50
Is there any official history between 591CY and the current year (594CY)? What major/interesting events have happened? Where can this be found out?
#2

zombiegleemax

Jun 20, 2004 7:05:51
Well...

Here's some of the highlights from LG Onnwal:

In 592 CY Jian Destron (the Szek) has had an illegitimate daughter (Veryanna) by one of the surviving Onnwalon noblewomen (Duchess Saielma Relaster of the Storm Coast).

In spring 593 CY, the orc of the Pomarj sent an army under the half-orc general Jedurek to assist the Scarlet Brotherhood forces in Onnwal. The Onnwalon Army of Rebellion, having made slow gains in the west of the Dragonshead, was repulsed from the port of Obelton through the intervention of the arriving orcs.

In the autumn of 593 CY, the SB and orcs made a combined assault on the Army of Rebellion forces in the Gildenlea, Onnwal's breadbasket, forcing them back with losses and burning the year's crops.

After a winter of food shortages, in early 594 CY Free State forces were challenged by a twin pronged assualt on Sornhill, the major Onnwalon port on the Sea of Gearnat and Killdeer, the Free State's current capital. Only the signing of the Naerie Compact between Onnwal, Sunndi and Ahlissa (see www.livinggreyhawk.com for details) and the timely intervention of an Ahlissan fleet forced the SB fleet back with losses. The orcs and SB forces have made a tactical withdrawal, due the the expectation of further Ahlissan interventions and the imminent arrival of the Sunndian XIth army in southern Azure Coast of Onnwal (conveyed by Ahlissan ships as part of the Naerie Compact).

Lots of other stuff happened too (including appearances by an emmisary of Rary the Traitor in the szek's court) - but that's the main points.

Oh - Tenh was devestated by an invasion of creatures from the Ethereal Plane in 593 CY.

P.

EDIT: PS - This is official only as far as LG of course. I'm not sure there's any "offical" history between 591 and 594 beyond what's in the LGJ. For various reasons many people consider LG (as opposed to LGJ) stuff "non official".
#3

Mortepierre

Jun 20, 2004 10:47:54
That's exactly why we need the LG to allow access to its old (say, more than 2 years old) scenarii .. or at least to publish a summary of what happened.
#4

Greyson

Jun 20, 2004 12:15:21
Originally posted by caeruleus
... official history between 591CY and the current year (594CY)? What major/interesting events have happened? Where can this be found out?

Check out the Nyrond Gazetteer HERE for information about our LG kingdom up to 593 CY. Click on the provinces links on the right-side and see what's going on. Events pertaining to 594 CY are still being developed and evolving, but the 594 Gazetteer has some items in it.

One issue of note is that King Lynwerd finally married Lady Xenia Sallavarian. And Mortepierre has a great point - you must see at least NYR4-03 He Loves Me, He Loves Me Not and NYR4-I05 A Day In the Life of Rel Mord III - The Royal Wedding to undestand this event.

Anyway, check out the gazeteer above - it's really good. Good luck
#5

zombiegleemax

Jun 21, 2004 3:55:29
Nyrond has a Lord Inquisitor named Umberre?? What, afraid Umbridge would bring a lawsuit?? You've got to be kidding me.

Well at least we know this ancient and proud land is in the capable hands of Harry Potter fans.

Have to wait for Volume 6 to come out before developing any more plot points??

This is why Living Greyhawk is not considered Cannon by many of us.
#6

pauln6

Jun 21, 2004 6:28:12
Yes, this is a real fly in my ointment too.

I'm trying to stitch together a LG history but it is quite tough, involving scouring sites and forums. It's going to take me ages, especially as I have loads of other stuff to do as well.

Onnwal is definitely one of the most organised sites in terms of keeping track of events and posting updates; other sites require much more digging.

from what I can gather, there are religious and political ructions growing between the two faiths of A'Akbar in Tusmit; there has been civil war in the County of Urnst due to devlish intervention (possibly from Ventnor?). The Countess was incapacitated for a while and the Lord of the East marched westward. I think it was resolved in 593 CY; in Duchy of Urnst Dumadan has been invaded by Derro (ongoing) and the Vale has been invaded by orcs (ongoing); in Geoff there have been a few sieges on Gorna and more shadows have been causing problems from the Dim Forest (including shadar-kai); in Keoland I think there has been some invlovement with a cult of Vecna in the Hool Marshes and some political ructions regarding troops committed to Geoff; the Isles of Woe reappeared in the Nyr Dyv; I think the King of Nyrond got engaged to Jallarzi's cousin recently...

Crap that's about all I can remember... and these are only snippets.

I am also voting for 'official' updates for the retired mods (a brief paragraph will do) or the notion of Living Greyhawk will only apply to those who are able to participate and then only in their own regions unless you do an awfull lot of leg-work! It seems a real shame that the writers and players go to so much trouble to see so much of it fade into obscurity.
#7

zombiegleemax

Jun 21, 2004 6:38:25
LG's quality varies from region to region.

Nyrond is quite an odd region. On the one hand you have Carl Sargent's gritty dark and excellent portrayal of a nation on the edge, with memorable characters as Lynwerd, Sewardnt and so forth, all with Oeridian names using his stylised writing style.

In LG Nyrond seems to have regained a lot of wealth in 586 CY-591CY, so much so they built a new town! I find it rather easy to look through the Nyrond website and find the NPCs the region's volunteers have made up, such as Von Flessern, a German rather than Oeridian sounding name.

Similarly Nyrondese scenarios have dealt with delivering mail rather than the epic plotlines Sargent kicked off. They've put a different spin on things than was originally mentioned in the Marklands.

Sure, there are some regions that have completely lost the plot on what their region feels like (I don't count Nyrond as one BTW). One Triad member said a mail to me, "Old Greyhawk info is useful for background but if the Triad of a region doesn't want to use it they don't have too."

Er... no, Ted.

And I'm pro-LG BTW.

Stuart

Originally posted by rostoff
Nyrond has a Lord Inquisitor named Umberre?? What, afraid Umbridge would bring a lawsuit?? You've got to be kidding me.

Well at least we know this ancient and proud land is in the capable hands of Harry Potter fans.

Have to wait for Volume 6 to come out before developing any more plot points??

This is why Living Greyhawk is not considered Cannon by many of us.

#8

Mortepierre

Jun 21, 2004 8:55:08
Originally posted by pauln6
I am also voting for 'official' updates for the retired mods (a brief paragraph will do) or the notion of Living Greyhawk will only apply to those who are able to participate and then only in their own regions unless you do an awfull lot of leg-work! It seems a real shame that the writers and players go to so much trouble to see so much of it fade into obscurity.

Agreed. Sometimes, it can even become downright annoying.

Recently, I ran my players through some scenarii I had prepared in Tenh. I wanted them to witness first hand how desperate that land had become between Fists in the north, armies of Iuz, zealous crusaders from the Pale and mercenaries from the duke-in-exile.

One of my players - who had participated in the LG scenarii involving "Ether" creatures - said that wasn't at all what was happening and the creatures his LG character had run into were much worse than what I was throwing at them. Imagine my joy... :sad:
#9

zombiegleemax

Jun 21, 2004 9:09:50
Yes but those zealous Palish etc. were probably far more in keeping with canon and far more interesting IMHO than the Starship Troopers-esque creatures that suddenly poured into Tenh. I always felt the Ethers could just have invaded any TSR world, and the plotline was not particularly Greyhawky.

I know Paul Looby's series is going to go back and detail the factions in now-devastated Tenh and (despite resistance from certain Triads) detail things rather than just abandon Tenh and forget how the devastation of an entire nation would affect the adjoining nations of the Flanaess.

Stu

Originally posted by Mortepierre

One of my players - who had participated in the LG scenarii involving "Ether" creatures - said that wasn't at all what was happening and the creatures his LG character had run into were much worse

#10

Greyson

Jun 21, 2004 13:06:00
Originally posted by rostoff
Well at least we know this ancient and proud land is in the capable hands of Harry Potter fans. Have to wait for Volume 6 to come out before developing any more plot points?? This is why Living Greyhawk is not considered Cannon by many of us.

LOL. No, LG Nyrond is developing independent of the esteemed Mr. Potter and his adventures at Hogwarts. While I cannot address the strange naming of NPCs and locations in LG Nyrond, I can say that the LG Nyrond volunteers do work hard and provide an active, engaging and fun role-playing forum for us.

I was just providing one avenue of thought to answer caeruleus's original question. I didn't say what was or was not canon. Just trying to help, gosh.
#11

caeruleus

Jun 21, 2004 15:51:09
Originally posted by Greyson
I was just providing one avenue of thought to answer caeruleus's original question. I didn't say what was or was not canon. Just trying to help, gosh.

And I thank you, and everyone else for responding.

Last week our DM wasn't prepared (after not playing for a couple of weeks), so some players decided to make me DM. I had them make up characters for play in (what else?) the World of Greyhawk. I've DM'ed twice now, and it's going great. In fact, I'm enjoying it so much (and the players say they are too), that I'm not gonna let the other guy DM until I'm ready to let him. After all, his campaign isn't Greyhawk! ;)

Anyway, that's why I wanted to know if there was anything "official" since 591CY. I know I don't have to place the campaign in 594, but I was curious nonetheless.

Thanks again.
#12

max_writer

Jun 21, 2004 16:11:05
I'm trying to stitch together a LG history but it is quite tough, involving scouring sites and forums. It's going to take me ages, especially as I have loads of other stuff to do as well.

I wish they'd just take all of this historical info and publish it. I have a fairly complete Greyhawk timeline but I'm not adding any of the LG stuff from the internet because it's simply too much.
#13

qstor

Jun 21, 2004 18:51:54
More as far as I know...

In Veluna a large evil army of undead, humanoids and fiends, that is rumored to be led by a lich of the former Canon Herion, is beseiging Mitrik now...

In Furyondy a dark cloud is covering Chendl and packs of vampires are roaming the City.

In Verbobonc a large giant and humanoid army has attacked the gnome area of Kron and the Viscount has sent aid to the gnomes...

In Geoff the Duke has set a Regent on the throne to seek more allies to help against the Giants and now he's vanished...
There are rumors that another counter offensive might be underway. The seige of Gorna was broken by the Giant armies btw..

Mike
#14

Lagrange_Baron_de_Banville

Jun 22, 2004 1:13:22
Though our main site is in German, you can find a nice condensed version of what we did in the past years in English, too.
Here is the link to our basic timeline up to CY 593. As this is a direct link to our history page, a lot of our Artwork and all these troublesome German words are gone. At the end of the text there's a simple link to our main English page!
If you want to find out what our site really looks like go to www.livinggreyhawk.de.

'till we meet in the Adri...
Frank Roters
Innspa / Adri Triad
#15

pauln6

Jun 22, 2004 4:17:15
Kewl - that's exactly what we need!

Thanks for that!
#16

Halberkill

Jun 22, 2004 12:33:04
Originally posted by qstor
More as far as I know...

In Veluna a large evil army of undead, humanoids and fiends, that is rumored to be led by a lich of the former Canon Herion, is beseiging Mitrik now...

Fiends? I thought the Crook of Rao took care of excessive use of extra planar beings?

Halber
#17

zombiegleemax

Jun 23, 2004 0:49:48
Originally posted by Halberkill
Fiends? I thought the Crook of Rao took care of excessive use of extra planar beings?

Halber

I'm sure I saw a reference to it actually only getting rid of demons, despite the name of the event.
#18

Mortepierre

Jun 23, 2004 1:45:16
Originally posted by qstor
In Veluna a large evil army of undead, humanoids and fiends, that is rumored to be led by a lich of the former Canon Herion, is beseiging Mitrik now...

In Furyondy a dark cloud is covering Chendl and packs of vampires are roaming the City.

Woah! Didn't know things were that bad to the West. Am I glad to live in Sunndi ..
#19

qstor

Jun 23, 2004 9:23:39
Originally posted by Halberkill
Fiends? I thought the Crook of Rao took care of excessive use of extra planar beings?

Halber

LGJ #10 in Dragon 294 p. 95 which gives 3e stats for the Crook, says that many fiends escaped banishment.

Also in Veluna, Canon Hazen vanished during the seige of Mitrik. I think he attempted to use the Crook again during the seige. The vanishing at the first use was also mentioned in Dragon 294.


Mike
#20

zombiegleemax

Jun 23, 2004 16:13:30
Originally posted by qstor
In Veluna a large evil army of undead, humanoids and fiends, that is rumored to be led by a lich of the former Canon Herion, is beseiging Mitrik now...

Ok, I don't recognize the name Herion and Zaboda's link on Harvestor's hereos is down (Grodog, can you post a link that works??) But if he's a former ruler of Veluna, that means a triad has Decided a Former High Preist of Rao went the way of Lichdom. Great, Fits perfectly with everything I thought about that Lawful Good, Reason and Serernity Loving preisthood.


In Furyondy a dark cloud is covering Chendl and packs of vampires are roaming the City...

Ok, a city that is the MOST LAWFUL GOOD in the Flanaess, is ruled by a Paladin and Fought off an invasion by Iuz's army is having a Vampire Problem. It's a stretch, but easier to accept than one of RAO's preists becoming a lich.

In Verbobonc a large giant and humanoid army has attacked the gnome area of Kron and the Viscount has sent aid to the gnomes...

Fine Somebody Shoot me.

WHERE DID THIS ARMY COME FROM!!!! The Hatefull wars rid the Lortmils of Humanoids!!! I never knew they were a haven for Giants (ok some halfling-loving stone Giants, but thats it)!!! Did this army sneak across Veluna from the Yatills???? Did the Giants leave Geoff and march across the Gran March and County of Urnst and Nobody noticed??? Did the Humanoids of the Pomarj Break through CELENE without conflict?? or up the Wild Coast and the Greyhawk Militias did nothing?? or they snuck through the Lortmils and Celene, the Principality and the Duchy of Urnst just missed "a Large army" of their enemies Flanking them.

This is the problem of Living Greyhawk. A triad just creates an army where none could exist because they want to. This tips it for me, Greyhawk is better dead than in this shape. I'm Buying Eberron.

In Geoff the Duke has set a Regent on the throne to seek more allies to help against the Giants and now he's vanished...
There are rumors that another counter offensive might be underway. The seige of Gorna was broken by the Giant armies btw...

Finally, 1 of 4 examples keeps things real. I will continue to have hope. May LG die soon and Erik and Gary pick up the quality pieces (maybe Rob can help) and but the rest in the dustbin where it belongs
#21

samwise

Jun 23, 2004 18:18:43
Actually Rostoff, giants and humanoids occur in significant numbers in the Gnarley Forest, and indeed large raiding bands of such coming up along the Jewell River from the Pomarj were noted in the '83 set, FtA, and CoG.
So while a full scale army marching into the Krons might be a tad excessive, and something I wouldn't do because of the situation in Geoff, it isn't impossible, or even severely unlikely, particularly with Celene being isolationist and likely not watching its borders so closely.
#22

zombiegleemax

Jun 23, 2004 20:27:26
Nothing happed. Mainly since all that LG stuff isn't any kind of canon outside LG itself. And thank heavens for that, I say, after checking out the rest of this thread!

That's the beauty of GH: No keeping up with an endless stream of "metaplot" from novels and such like with...certain other settings. :D
#23

zombiegleemax

Jun 24, 2004 7:00:45
One of the problems with LG is that many moons ago the Geoff Triad came up with the idea of a battle interactive to deal with their wars against the giants. The problem then was that other triads who weren't given occupied lands like Geoff decided to also do battle interactives to please their players and thus areas routinely have large scale battles.

Fortunately in Onnwal we have an excuse to have a big scrap every once in a while.

Stuart

Originally posted by rostoff
WHERE DID THIS ARMY COME FROM!!!! [/b]

#24

simpi

Jun 24, 2004 8:51:35
Originally posted by skerrigan

Fortunately in Onnwal we have an excuse to have a big scrap every once in a while.

Stuart

We'll probably not do that in Naerie, even though one player suggested that there could be an occasional pitched battle between PCs supporting Idee Volunteers and Pro-Ahlissan PCs without the usual "PCs cannot hurt each other willfully" yarn:D

"You guys are evil, how can you support Ahlissa!?" = foreign player

S.H, Naerie Webslave
#25

qstor

Jun 24, 2004 15:31:35
Originally posted by skerrigan
One of the problems with LG is that many moons ago the Geoff Triad came up with the idea of a battle interactive to deal with their wars against the giants. The problem then was that other triads who weren't given occupied lands like Geoff decided to also do battle interactives to please their players and thus areas routinely have large scale battles.

As a devout former Geoffite, The battle interactives were always one of my favorite part of LG. Shoot me me for being more of a combat nut than other "role players" I guess...And it makes sense for the plotline where three quarters of the country is controlled by giants and fits in with what the Triad was give ie Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff 2e where only one city was giant free. Now its up to the ragged Geoff army and the Grand March forces as well as the PC's to retake the land.

In LG I think the battle interactive fits well with the Shield Lands too and maybe a few others, but certainly not all the Triad controlled areas. As to Verbobonc I guess it wasn't so much as a Giant "army" as large scale humanoid/giant raids on the Krons.

As far as some of the other comments..IMHO.....

And perhaps the army beseiging Mitrik is a bad idea too...who knows...

Herion comes from a LG scenario by the Circle member David Christ. I dont think it's from anywhere else. btw

In regards to the ether creatures...a lot of people didn't like it and thought it was a bad idea.

I think Samwise once said that the bad thing about LG is that if a Triad wants to ignore canon they can, and unfortuntaly as far as WOTC is concerned LG is "all" Greyhawk the Greyhawk we're getting apart from what Erik Mona gives us. So the events in LG are "canon" in some respects..

Mike
#26

qstor

Jun 24, 2004 15:36:09
Originally posted by rostoff


Ok, a city that is the MOST LAWFUL GOOD in the Flanaess, is ruled by a Paladin and Fought off an invasion by Iuz's army is having a Vampire Problem. It's a stretch, but easier to accept than one of RAO's preists becoming a lich.[/b]

If you've read or played Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil you can see where the Triad got the idea from. I actually like the basis since it comes from a "canon" souce and it took a while for the Triad to bring it into the plotline.

Mike
#27

eric_anondson

Jun 24, 2004 15:47:53
There will be Shield Lands SPOILERS below. If you haven't played any 593 or 594 year Shield Lands mods, DON'T READ THIS POST!

You have been warned.

Originally posted by skerrigan
One of the problems with LG is that many moons ago the Geoff Triad came up with the idea of a battle interactive to deal with their wars against the giants. The problem then was that other triads who weren't given occupied lands like Geoff decided to also do battle interactives to please their players and thus areas routinely have large scale battles.

Fortunately in Onnwal we have an excuse to have a big scrap every once in a while.

We here in the Shield Lands also have a very good excuse. The very Shield Lands had an interactive in Year One, that was a huge battle. We've been able to whip out battle interactives every now and then when another County capital is being liberated. Through interactives, three more county capitals have been liberated, bringing the Shield Lands' freed capitals to include Critwall, Bright Sentry, Torkeep, Gensal and Southkeep (psst, and Ringland, though knowledge of it is a state secret that only the highest ranking officials are aware of). There are eighteen capitals left.

That said, here is a little bit of what has happened in the Shield Lands in 591 and 592 (With 593 and 594 mods still available for play, I won't give out any spoilers until later). In 591, only Critwall and Bright Sentry were freed. Torkeep was just beyond the frontlines by a few miles. Earl Torkeep, not one to sit around for a committee to decide how to run a war, with help from adventurers, his retainers, and loyal troops took Torkeep castle. Iuzian forces set about beseiging Torkeep. This was a massive battle interactive, and I could go into stories about what happened. It was amazing. Suffice it to say, the Shield Lands won the day, and Torkeep remained freed.

Also in 591, a lengthy plotarc over several mods revealed that Waquonis was scheming to unseat Vayne in Admundfort. By the end of 591, the blockade of Walworth Isle was broken when an artifact of the Nyr Dyv unleashed lake-monsters upon the ships, Furyondy brought their ships home, and Waquonis and his forces slipped across the lake from Axeport to Walworth Isle. The details are not clear, but Vayne fled Admundfort, leaving Waquonis to rule the island. Vayne setup his new HQ in Laws' Forge. Vayne kept his position as titular head of Iuz's occupation of the Shield Lands, but further reduced in the eyes of his superiors. This chaos allowed the SL to further consolidate the gains at Torkeep and also push nearer to South Keep and Gensal, laying the groundwork to free those capitals later.

Lastly, the Free Reavers were being given the freedom by Vayne to roam around the Shield Lands, terrorizing where they went, but seemingly involved in some thought-out scheme.

In 592, Ringland re-established contact with the rest of the Shield Lands. Only those with a need-to-know are made aware of this fact. The Shield Lands use Ringland's unique defenses to operate scouting missions deep behind enemy lines to great effectiveness. Gensal is freed this year. As the family that ruled Gensal is extinct (no surivors from the Greyhawk Wars), the Council of Lords begins deliberations on what to do now that the place is liberated. People need their rulers! Never before had a whole family become extinct, and all families are descended from Aerdi-era appointments.

Also, during 592, a collection of bizarre obelisks jut from the ground across the Shield Lands. No one was able to divine just what caused them, but research revealed those obelisks had laid buried for centuries, or longer. One appeared in Ringland (strangely in the middle if the "ring" of Ringland, and another in Critwall (others were scattered in the Occupied lands). If anyone had Return to White Plume Mountain, you would recognize the obelisks. These obelisks seem to have been anticipated by some secretive group of dark robed ones... as they were in the vicinity when the first jutted out of the ground... the mystery deepened into the next few years...

In Critwall, at the beginning of the year, a charity organization devoted to ministering to returning refugees who were homeless and destitute was revealed to be the creation of a person with possible ties to Iuz and (he claimed) Dragotha. The charity was left alone, but the founder was exiled by decree of the Council of Lords.

Many 592 mods actually deal with PCs handling escorting returning refugees, or investigating disturbances at recently resettled farmsteds.

A little background before I start 593... For those of you with Iuz the Evil, take a look at the map of Admundfort. You will note on the map there is something that is never explained. 8. Towers of the Shield Mages. Well, during the battle interactive at the Seige of Torkeep, there was a side mission for certain PCs. They were secreted out of the keep to bring back reinforcements. They quickly traveled to an abandoned wizard's tower near Torkeep. They found the wizard's Shield Guardian, brought it back with them and unleashed it upon the beseiging Iuzians. Back to 593...

Now begin spoilerific info

The start of 593 begins with the PCs on guard duty at the tower where the Shield Guardian was found. The wizard's tower is now being used as an outpost. The wizard who built this tower was a Shield Mage. Rumor was that the Shield Mages were all killed when Admundfort fell, where their organization's Tower is held. Over the year, it is learned that the Shield Mages all went to Admundfort as Iuz was invading. A few apprentices remained outside. The PCs end up on the trail of the last surviving apprentice.

Also in 593, in a bit of real politik, the regent of Bright Sentry (a follower of Pholtus), uses his position to elevate Pholtus to be the official patron of the County of Bright Sentry (Scragholm Island). Bright Sentry is roughly 50/50 Pholtus/Heironeous worshippers. This causes a serious problem with the rest of the Council of Lords, factions begin to harden.

South Keep is recovered in 593. Later in the year, the infighting between Vayne and Waquonis has all but ceased... whispers that one of their superiors has come to stop the losses. Iuzian outposts across the border are being heavily re-fortified.

By the end of 593, it is revealed that the Shield Mages are still around. That their Towers in Admundfort are holding up arcane defenses, and have been ever since the fall to Iuz. Also learned is that the Shield Mages are an Arcane Order (See Tome and Blood). There is a spellpool in the Tower, this is why all the Shield Mages went to the tower... to prevent the spellpool from falling into Iuz's hands. At the end of the 593, the PCs learn that there were two last remaining apprentices outside the Tower of the Shield Mages. One killed the other, and betrayed the knowledge of the spellpool to Vayne. Iuz now knows there is a spellpool sitting in Admundfort that has centuries worth of spells stored in it... now to just defeat the defenses...

In 594, so far, details about why the Free Reavers were being given freedom to travel where they pleased. They were aiding Vayne's collecting of a material component to an ancient ritual. The material is called "pure earth". It is the remains of dead, native earth elementals. Not summoned elementals, or elementals who travel to Oerth. But of elementals born on Oerth. It is obviously exceedingly rare. PCs learn that "Vayne now has enough". Not long after, in a scene of confusion, multiple squads of assassins appear, almost bursting out of the ground, strike at Lady Katarina, killing her. The Cathedral of the Shield Reclaimed tries ressurecting her to no avail, her soul cannot be contacted.

This is where the Shield Lands hangs today... mid 594cy...


Regards,
Eric Anondson
#28

pauln6

Jun 25, 2004 3:08:22
KEWL!! That's more like it!!

Any one else have any updates? (spoilers on recent mods are not required - but they certainly are exciting)
#29

samwise

Jun 25, 2004 14:46:47
I think Samwise once said that the bad thing about LG is that if a Triad wants to ignore canon they can, and unfortuntaly as far as WOTC is concerned LG is "all" Greyhawk the Greyhawk we're getting apart from what Erik Mona gives us. So the events in LG are "canon" in some respects..

There was a bit more to what I said.
The unfortunate part is that they can ignore the canon because there is no one to check the work to be sure it does not trash all over previous material. It is also unfortunate that more Triad people don't know enough about canon to be able to avoid such contradictions without said review.
Is this universal?
Not in the least.
But it does exist, both accidentally and deliberately. And while the deliberate part is pretty bad, those who do so accidentally are usually willing to listen then work to reconcile the differences as much as is possible.

As for what Erik Mona includes in Dungeon, how canon that is remains to be seen. If it deliberately ignores everything from LG, or worse deliberately contradicts it, I won't consider it to be canon at all. It is bad enough the fan base is so divided, to have an active conflict between material appearing in the magazines and the active Living campaign would be a disaster. It would make things even more difficult for players, not to mention whoever winds up writing the next installment on the world setting.

Oh, and as an addendum to the world setting issue, I think it is about time to recognize that the next version has been worked on. The lineage should now be recognized as:
Gygax - Sargent - Mona/Holian/Weining - Dave Christ and the LG Triads
I know certain people won't ever get over their hate of LG, but as time goes on they are going to be putting themselves in the same category as the people who can't get over the existence of Sargent's FtA, or the LGG of Mona, Holian, and Weining. Right now is the time of the LG Campaign.
#30

zombiegleemax

Jun 25, 2004 17:14:10
Here's a run-down on Onnwal's history...

Recent History at a Glance

Prequel: Shadows Under Scant
In 574 CY patriots of Onnwal are commissioned by Szek Elwerd Destron to investigate the sewers beneath
Scant. They encounter sahaugin and worse.

ONW1−01 Escape from Scant
Patriots of Onnwal escape from the very dungeons of the Scarlet Brotherhood in Scant via newlydiscovered
tunnels that lead out into the countryside and freedom. Some of these patriots are seen bearing
spears of Flan origin they obtained within these tunnels.

ONW1−02 To Catch a Traitor
Hillstalker Illinkir stumbles upon the lair of Rohal Soldas, the traitor of Sornhill. By chance he reaches a
camping band of Onnwalon patriots and having drawn the majority of Soldas’s hochebi away asks them to
capture Soldas. For weeks afterwards the rebellion camps were abuzz with rumours that Soldas had been
captured or killed by this band, but unfortunately the truth was that he eluded them.

ONW1−03 Glaive’s Gambit
An Onnwalon warband seemingly saves renowned knight, Baron Halrend Lorenndren from the clutches
of an enemy hochebi force in the Headlands. They escort him to Longbridge and the manor of Duke
Gellen Longbridge. Both Gellen and Halrend are candidates for the leadership of the Knights of
Azharadian and have called an informal gathering of the Order. Sadly the gathering is plagued with illomens
and is dispersed when Gellen’s squire, Siward, attempts to unsuccessfully assassinate Halrend.
Siward is executed.

ONW1−04 Nature’s Course
Numerous farmsteads within the Storm Coast are attacked by demented creations of the Scarlet Sign as
part of a perfidious plot by the Scarlet Brotherhood to disrupt food production.

ONW1−05 Last Respects
A wizard, claiming to be in the service of Bigby, asks that his wife be escorted to the grave of a family
member. Sadly she is slain by a traitor within the party.

ONW1−06 Remember the Farmers
The foul Leviticus, a follower of Pyremius with a magical scabbard, is brought to justice by patriots of
Onnwal. A special Sword of Remembrance is created by Ornulf of Sornhill.

ONW1−07 Hunters Hunted
Intrigue in the Knights of the Chase learns patriots of Onnwal the lesson that not all is what it seems. An
attempt to destroy the Bell of Trithereon, a symbol of freedom from the Scarlet Sign, is averted by a band
of heroes.

ONW1−08 Rashta’s Brother
A handful of patriots of Onnwal encounter the Ventonii tribe for the first time and learn of Rashta’s
Brother, a lion-skin standard that is said to have been taken from the Onnwi, the Suel who wrested the
Dragonshead from the original Flan inhabitants.

ONW2−01 Navel of the Goddess
A splinter-group of Flan known as the People of the Navel ask for the Free State’s aid to enter a scared
shrine. They retrieve a relic of Beory for the Flan.

ONW2−02 Death By Luna’s Light
A serial killer plaguing Killdeer is believed to be a werewolf. The truth comes to light one fateful night in a
haunted house within Killdeer. It is in fact a Brotherhood wizard of considerable skill summoning
creatures to do his dirty task. The killer escapes by dint of the raw cunning and tactics the Brotherhood are
renowned for. It also becomes clear the Free State of Onnwal have sent an Envoy to Sunndi for aid – and
that this fact is known to the Scarlet Brotherhood!

ONI2−02 The Envoy
Free State war bands are dispatched to warn the Envoy. Once more heroes of Onnwal learn first-hand the
duplicitous nature of the Scarlet Sign. The Envoy reaches Irongate, despite a traitor in his party attempting
to take his place.

ONW2−03 Trouble at Mill
The merchant Dirkwall has a shipment of silver stolen by bandits. Heroes are sent to investigate and
recover the silver from brigands.

ONW2−04 Rest in Peace
Leviticus is dead and the Church of Zilchus employs mercenaries to destroy his legacy – the Scabbard of
Pyremius, and free the souls of the farmers trapped within it.

ONW2−05 To Hunt a Traitor
Rohal Soldas, recovered from his injuries in the Volanots, makes a surprising attack at Greenfalls, in the
heartland of the Duchy of the Storm Coast. He kills every man, woman and child and uses a fell mark to
prevent divine magics from aiding these people. They later rise as undead.
Soldas is pursued into the Headlands by heroes and finally dispatched. These heroes also encounter
the Galai Iorn, flesh-eating dark Flan tribesmen, who claim Soldas as a meal and send for the terrible
dreamstealers that sap the mind and sanity of their victims!

ONW2−06 Blazing Banner
Heroes of Onnwal are snuck into Scant via the Shrine of Jascar to retrieve the Banner of Azharadian. Sadly
the priestess of Jascar is slain in the attempt, but the heroes return triumphant with the banner, which is
presented to Duke Gellen Cadwale.

ONW2−07 Memento
Rakehell Chert’s old short sword, the Silver Left surfaces in the hands of the Brotherhood. They seek to
use it to find and destroy the Wrecker himself, but are thwarted by heroes of Onnwal.

ONW 2−08 Marooned
Investigating Rakehell Chert’s sword and a map leads a warband to discover that Chert has a son,
seemingly in the thrall of the Scarlet Sign in Scant.

Unique Events
Matters of Loyalty

In early 592 CY the Szek holds his first public court in the Red Tower of Sornhill. He believes the Scarlet
Sign intends to launch a new campaign against the Free State. Chert has informed him it shall be at
Sornhill the battle shall be fought, so he calls forth the nobles of Onnwal to swear fealty to him and affirm
him Szek.
He seems taken with Duchess Sailema Relaster of Sornhill, but the revelry is interrupted by Pholtans,
returned from the Pale with a small army of templars, wretched half-euroz and a Baklunish guest claiming
that Rary the Archmage aided the Szek’s escape from the Scarlet Brotherhood during the Night of Scarlet
Knives in 594 CY. He gives the Szek a gift that seemingly awakens the spirits of the Duchess’s ancestors.
Patriots of Onnwal dispatch these wraiths.
Spring Weekend in Onnwal 2002
Longbridge, long without a naval screen, receives the Lady of the Silver Hills galley and a vessel she
captured en-route sailing around the peninsula. During the voyage the crew (comprised also of sellswords)
battled sea creatures and were forced to stop at the Hell Isles to make an alliance with Larea Farmoore, a
merchant seemingly sanctioned by the Scarlet Sign by dint of her Suel heritage!

Longbridge is assailed by raiding parties and treachery within. A flippant half-euroz war company
inadvertently sets off an alchemical mixture on the Span and tragedy ensues. However Longbridge is saved
by the valiant war companies of Onnwal. Larea Farmoore begins trading with Longbridge.

The Long Night
The initial attack on Longbridge was nothing more than a scouting party. As the Szek calls a Council of
War in Sornhill – which has long been the front for the war – word comes in that Longbridge has been
captured by the Scarlet Sign. Marching on Longbridge he retakes it in a single night, but the scars of the
Brotherhood’s brief occupation remain. Duke Gellen escapes thanks to a valiant company.

Siege at Tarlesan
The Brotherhood have spent their forces at Longbridge and now in early 593 CY the Free State is on the
offensive! A series of offensives are launched at Brotherhood-held Tarlesan, which is retaken.

Storm on the Volanots
The Free State set forth to retake Obelton and encircle Scant! The Brotherhood in their desperation have
enlisted the aid of Turrosh Mak and the Pomarj. An initially successful campaign is beaten back by the
Pomarj into an orderly retreat rear guarded by valiant patriots. Aid from Sunndi comes at the end of the
campaign, but sadly only a trickle as Overking Xavener refuses the Sunndians passage through Ahlissa and
the Sunndians have no port to set sail from.

Fires of Harvest
The Pomarj Orcs, under the leadership of a half-euroz named Jedurek, ravage the Gildenlea – Onnwal’s
breadbasket. Despite the valiant efforts of the companies of Onnwal much of the harvest is destroyed and
Onnwal looks towards a lean year.
#31

zombiegleemax

Jun 25, 2004 19:26:47
Originally posted by Samwise
Oh, and as an addendum to the world setting issue, I think it is about time to recognize that the next version has been worked on. The lineage should now be recognized as:
Gygax - Sargent - Mona/Holian/Weining - Dave Christ and the LG Triads
I know certain people won't ever get over their hate of LG, but as time goes on they are going to be putting themselves in the same category as the people who can't get over the existence of Sargent's FtA, or the LGG of Mona, Holian, and Weining. Right now is the time of the LG Campaign.

Most of us don't hate LG. I think it is a very nifty concept. I can't, however, recognize it as the next generation of official Greyhawk products when I cannot access most of it. Sure, I could join the campaign, but that would still not grant me access to more than one region. I could probably develop a network of online friends in the various regions who could get the modules from those areas and then cheat and give me the passwords for them, but if it were "official" one wouldn't need to cheat to get it. I'm not making a judgement on the quality of the material. I'm not suggesting that it is a crime against God and Man. What I am saying is that until all of the material is publicly available, it's not an update to the setting, it's just an incredibly large home campaign.

-David
#32

pauln6

Jun 28, 2004 11:06:00
Well put!

I think LG is great but unless the Triads work together to stitch the histories together, LG will never be a contender for officialdom. That would be a great shame.

And let's not forget, 'official' is only as official as we want to make it in our own campaigns and always has been. Thrommel was rescued in our campaign. I had to make him go missing again in the Great Northern Crusade after I realised just how findamental his absence is to so much of the 'official' history!

Greater Furyondy? Sounds dull.

#33

samwise

Jun 28, 2004 17:04:23
Given how much material from the old days that was never publicly released is considered "essential" for GH now, I don't see how the modules not being fully available is a problem.
If you want the resolution of events, you can check websites or ask.
If you want the various regional write ups, they are on websites.
All that is missing is a few modules whose play is not essential to the history of the setting.
The material needed for the LG campaign to be official is available. All you need to do is go get it.
#34

Mortepierre

Jun 29, 2004 2:44:54
Originally posted by Samwise
If you want the various regional write ups, they are on websites.
All that is missing is a few modules whose play is not essential to the history of the setting.
The material needed for the LG campaign to be official is available. All you need to do is go get it.

That may be true for a few regions (like Nyrond for instance) but that's hardly the standard. Some regions don't even have a website (an active one I mean) and when they have, recent events are only hinted at.

Sorry but that's far from enough. I continue to think that any LG material more than 2 years old should be made public. There would be a delay in getting the info but at least we wouldn't be kept in the dark.
#35

zombiegleemax

Jul 14, 2004 1:55:51
Originally posted by Halberkill
Fiends? I thought the Crook of Rao took care of excessive use of extra planar beings?

Halber

I'm not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but here goes.

I'm not going to tell any big spoilers, but if you are an LG player and you've not played the "For the Greater Good" series by Dave Christ then avert your eyes.

Here is what I know of the supposed Flight of Fiends. Apparently Iuz was able to trick 3 high-ranking bishops of Rao into bringing some cursed medallions to the ceremony. At the height of the ceremony, they desolved and each bishop suddenly had a scrawling infernal tatoo with the true names of 101 devils on it. Each of these 303 devils was really a half fiend, and when they were transported to a pocket dimension they were ripped from their human counterpart and they were all trapped in the a demi-plane off of Perdition. One was somehow able to escape into a small boy on the prime material plane. The human halves live in a backward society and worship a monolithic idol that looks like the boy. I'm not sure what the devils are up to. The one devil was recently released from the boy through a ceremony and is trying to release the rest of his devil friends. The only way to stop the cycle is to re-bond him with a human, and then send him back to the demi-plane where they will be forcibly split.

There is one more part to the story, so I don't know how it ends yet. That is all I can remember from what I played.