Maybe have Clerics who worship him (get spells?) and clerics who worship the Grey (get spells?).
Would those concepts work in theory?
I think Rajaat is the best idea for a game world and it would be a real shame to have him not involved... this sort of insane godlike guy, who is all pwerful and at the same time vulnerable.
Love reading your theories, I think what makes DS so great is the fact that there isn't a whole lot of material and much of it can be interpreted and researched and debated.
From the left coast with love,
Dragi (who spelled his name wrong signing up and wants to be called Draji but can't figure out how to change it)
How do I use Rajaat though in my games? He is a force behind the scenes. The PCs have often become entangled in his webs on many occassions. They've had a few dealings with his messengers and minions. In my game, Khalid the shadow giant was not killed at Ur Draxa, and I use him as an agent of Rajaat's that the PCs know of (though there are others that they don't know of). The PCs over time (and over several campaigns) have uncovered a few pieces of lore about the Warbringer, and one adventure I had planned out (but never had the chance to run yet) involved them being trapped for a time within the Hollow itself with Rajaat and Andropoinis, where I planned to let the players catch a glimpse of Rajaat's endgame of recreating the Blue Age (and probably let them see how much their previous adventures simply aided in making that vision come true in the future).
As for Rajaat having worshipers, I think if any culture that saw Rajaat as a savior and not simply the Warbringer (and saw the Blue Age as a paradise), they most certainly would worship him as a god. I wouldn't give them divine power or spellcasting from it though. There are no gods on Athas in my games, and that includes Rajaat (who did not as far as we know from canon ever attract an elemental vortice).
As for your name, simply create another handle with the name you want. There are a few people I know who post in different threads under different names (for their own reasons, I'm sure).
I'm using more fresh threats like Dregoth, the kreen invasion, etc for my games. Anyway, just my thoughts on the Rajaat matter.
one of the things i like about athas is the every man for himself atmosphere where being good just means not being genocidially evil(spelling?) i think if rajaat is behind the schenes orchestrating everything something is lost from the world. for me he is the shaper of athas as it is now, but will not be involved in the future.
edit: mach, i like what you have done with ol rajaat in your game though. i just don't like my pcs or if i'm playing my characters to be unwitting pawns for a background power. i think often times it is over done. i guess i play on a smaller scale normally than most of the other dms here. i guess it's hangover from the forgotten realms where everyone seems to be involved in world shaping events, that got old so damn fast.
(Reading the chronology in the DS2 boxed set was a real "umm....wow...how very bizarre..." kind of moment for me, heh heh).
So as a DM I haven't really had much fun yet with ole boney - he's still quite fresh to me, lol. My current (3e) campaign is called Warbringer, though (my players keep asking me why - I think they figure it has something to do with Hamanu
) so I am planning on getting my money's worth this time around. I'm basically following the metaplot of the Prism Pentad, but with my own PCs and weaving this through the flipbook series. Rajaat should be pretty much a background force for most of this. Not sure yet how I will do the Cerulean Storm sequence - but we're only just at ECL 7 now, lol, so I guess I have time to get round to it.Hmmm... Or so they keep claiming... ;)
In the same token, his presence is felt daily by all things. He invented/created/released magic unto the world. He pulled the trigger to the gun that has mortally injured the world.
Sometimes, I bring him up as the PCs stumble onto high-level dungeons but thats it.
He is too much a god figure to have return to the game world.
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Originally posted by Dragi
Just wondering how Rajaat factors into your current game. Working at putting together my own campaign world and was thinking of bringing Rajaat back at some point...
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Well, he's definately going to be a major part of my campaigns, if not a major focal point at some point. Though you could go too far with this and have him end up turning into some sort of boogieman for the setting, which I think is going a little too far.
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Maybe have Clerics who worship him (get spells?) and clerics who worship the Grey (get spells?).
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While you're going to have a tought time explaining how this was accomplished, since I can't see him having any more than a divine rank of 0, and as far as I know no elemental vortices have attached to him, I definately like the idea, actually did it myself for the last DS/RL combo I did.
From the armpit of the Midwest with love.
Originally posted by vader42xx
Not to step on any toes here as most seem to agree with the two posts above but I personally feel that Rajaat has been done to death. So, other than ancient history, he probably won't figure into my games at all (which take place about FY 12).
I'm using more fresh threats like Dregoth, the kreen invasion, etc for my games. Anyway, just my thoughts on the Rajaat matter.
Athas is full of cool villains. Not because of stylish manneirisms, but because they feel real. Villains in Athas don't do bad things because they are "evil" but because they have a logical (at least in their own heads) reason. Are halflings evil because they see other sentient races as food? Are the SMs evil because they do what they can to make sure their city-states, and the populations therein, survive another year? Rajaat is the same. A man with a golden-blue dream and with the twisted means to acomplish it. I like Rajaat so much (my favourite villain in fantasy EVER) that i can't keep from using him and giving hints of his existence in my campaign.
But these new threats are also interesting and should also be used! My campaign (which is now finally resuming after a several year hiatus) and the adventures of my players will be set against the premise that Athas is changing. Kreen are already starting their scouting for attacks from the West. Dregoth seizes the opportunity of a SK-weakened Tablelands and starts insinuating himself in Raam, and goes for Draj, not realizing that a weakened but returning Teck rules there again (all the SKs had contingency plans of some sort IMC, and most of them are slowly returning, except for Andropinis who wasn't killed and, therefore, cannot return). Dregoth manages to defeat Draj but with heavy losses, leaving more room for the kreen invasion. Basically what i'm aiming for is having the SK's basically beg for Rajaat to return to help them. At some point i would like to include the other superpower near the tablelands - the Deadlands. Anyway, this is an all-out war scenario, different from the original feel of immutable Athas, but i like it mostly as background for adventures, although the players might reach levels where they actually have a direct influence.
My PCs will be slugging it out in a more personal setting (early on anyways). I too feel there is lots of interesting stuff. I would like to run a campaign of explorers... maybe sailing skimmers beyond the sea of silt or heading deep into the Savaanah (Lots o'Kreen action) and discover the sea at the other side...
I also like the intrigue with merchant houses and the simple but always fun adventure involved with just getting from A to B in Athas and maybe making a few Silvers along the way....
I have Rajaat as currently pulling te wool over everyone's eyes - he was caught off-guard by his champions two thousand years ago, and has been fiending for getting some revenge - which he did in the Prism Pentad. however, while he was trapped by Borys inthe Hollow before, he still was laying the groundwork for his next stages - making alliances with the plane of Rain (hence the cerulean storm body and the current cerulean storm that rages over the once valley of dust and fire)., and I believe even ones with the other Paraelements (which, I believe is why they are ignoring the natural balance of things, and decided that more of their respective paraelements - damn the consiquences - is better, and they war with the elements over this - Rajaat basically seduced the Paraelemental powers). I think he got access to the paraelements based on his pyreen nature - pyreens are druids, and druids are linked to all four elements. I think he got corrupted, and is rather linked to all four paraelements.
I believe when he had his shadow giants make Sadira what she is - he ensured that she really could not stop him in any way (he learned what happens when he makes people who can) - however, while he builds his power base, he "pretends" to be captured and imprisoned once more - but this time, it's really on his terms. He only doesn't escape becaus he is waiting for something. My idea on this is he's waiting on the Cerulean Storm to completely cool the magma on the Valley of Dust and Fire - within which lay his bones and the Dark Lens. Once Cooled, he'll have a new physical body - giant bones made of obsidian (and Obsidian is already such a wonderful thing in relation to Arcane Magic), that are fused with his own original bones, as well as the power of the Dark Lens (which is obsidian itself!)
The last thing I believe is that he has been insinuating himself throughout the black, merging his essence with that plane to eventually become that plane - and when he does, he will have the power of the Black as his own. Combine this with the new "body" he is potentially making for himself, and his alliances with the paraelements - we're talking about a being that will be virtually unstoppable.
Once all the parts of his plan are completed, his ability to realize his dream for Athas - the return of the Blue Age - will be possible. However, I feel his dream is significantly flawed - and all he will end up is with a chaotic, volcano-covered mud world with intense storms and extreme heat from the intensity of the sun (the total cominance of the four paraelements together). It will also, most certianly be dead - and he will be alone on that hellish world he had devised.
This is - to me - an inevitable direction for Athas to take - unless someone realizes what he is doing - and stops him. However, Rajaat is doing this secretively and quiet-like, as to not disturb people, and also only slowly progressing - in matters of millenia, so as to not alert anyone to what he is doing until it i far to late to stop him.
He does have people working for him on Athas - Cerulean Mages. Ceruleans, as they are using the energy of the Cerulean Storm, are "infected" with Rajaat, and begin to eventually become totally corrupted towards his will.
Further - Shadow Mages - those who use the energy of the Black, could be very well heading in the same direction, as Rajaat assumes more and more control and power over that plane.
But anyone even remotely worshiping him - it is possible, but I don't think he would sanction or desire it. Then again, he'd probably care less. Tithian - who is now linked to Rajaat and the Cerulean Storm, could claim to be Rajaat, and start up some cults worshiping him - in the name of Rajaat, but that would just be his short-sighted dreams cropping up again, and may be permitted by Rajaat to serve as a distraction (unless he doesn't want his name constantly being brought up around people who could eventually be telepathically read by the Sorcerer-Monarchs to learn what is going on. I think Rjaat's playing the game of - out of sight, out of mind - if he keeps quiet and works in the background, maybe the Sorcerer-Kings will relax their guard, begin to bicker amongst each other again, and otherwizse become lax and complacent).
Originaly from Mach 2.5 (in redundant thread, consolidating discussions)
Wow, great minds must surely think alike. This is almost verbatim what I have used in my own mega-meta-plot-thingie through several campaigns. In fact, the only difference would be that with all that power, Rajaat in my campaign no longer requires physical form, becoming as close to a god as Athas will ever get (in the way that divine beings are omni-present). Well, that and I'm also stealing your little gemstone there about merging with the Black. Also, I planned to have his version of the Blue Age be the paradise that he sees it, but by then, there will be no other living beings there besides himself (and Andropoinis). But even in his madness, he finds a way to alter certain events using the PCs. I use the themes of unalterable destiny and fatalism heavily, and this is perhaps the biggest.
I like to use them too, I also like to run with ideas that there are many, many layers of plots and themes running in my campaigns - and players slowly peel them away as one peels an onion. My Rajaat theory is one of the deeper layers. While fatalism is cool, I tend to like to bait my players with the hope of being able to avoid it. Making them think they have a choice in the matter is what's really fun. Making them think that their supposed choices really make a difference is even moreso. The best tho - is leading them down a path where they come to the realization that these "choices" they made ended up doing exactly what the villains desired, and succeeded in ruining the world even further. That's about the level of manipulation I try to get with Rajaat.
Originally posted by Dragi
Just wondering how Rajaat factors into your current game. Working at putting together my own campaign world and was thinking of bringing Rajaat back at some point...
Maybe have Clerics who worship him (get spells?) and clerics who worship the Grey (get spells?).
Would those concepts work in theory?
I think Rajaat is the best idea for a game world and it would be a real shame to have him not involved... this sort of insane godlike guy, who is all pwerful and at the same time vulnerable.
Love reading your theories, I think what makes DS so great is the fact that there isn't a whole lot of material and much of it can be interpreted and researched and debated.
From the left coast with love,
Dragi (who spelled his name wrong signing up and wants to be called Draji but can't figure out how to change it)
People -could- worship Rajaat. But the regular populous of Athas haven't even heard of him. With the exception of the enlightened few, no one even remembers where magic came from. Rajaat is one of the mysteries of Athas that the players have to uncover for themselves. Not only that, even if people worshipped him, that wouldn't entitle his worshippers to spells, nor would it make Rajaat any kind of god. Just like Lalali-Puy and Tectuctitlay, Rajaat would be a pretender.
Also, the word "cleric" refers to those that receive energy from the elemental powers... If rajaat could grant spells, his followers would be templars instead of clerics.
As for worshipping the Grey, thats another one of those athasian mysteries, that only the priveleged know of. (in this case, wizards and defilers, and those capable of walking the planes) probably the most likely way for people to begin receiving spells from the Grey and the Black would either be as Wizards who have found a way to draw energy from these sources, or some planar event causes these planes to seek out clerics on athas, like the Elemental planes do. To answer that, you would first have to ask why the Elementals want clerics, and the Black and Grey do (or did) not.
I could see a small cult of devoted zealots but I doubt they would be spell casting beyond a shaman level.
Not at all, really. He's the major figure in Athas' past, and the reprocussions of his actions can still be felt, but he personally has no place in the world any more. The PCs have never even heard his name.
wizards and defilers
Just wizards OR preservers and defilers. Nitpicking, I know.
Anyway, in my DS campaign, Rajaat, like many others have said, is in the background. Except for the most educated of clerics, wizards, and defilers, Rajaat is the stuff of legend - no one really beleives in the myths - they are thought of as creation myths or stories to scare travelers from venturing too far into the desert.
I did however, use Doombringers - avatars of Rajaat to collect items of power to free Rajaat from the Hollow during a series of adventures. I fashioned them after the Ring Wraiths on LotR with a Dark Sun twist. These Doombringers gave the god-like sorcerer-kings pause enough that these monarchs cooperated with PCs to defeat the avatars of Rajaat. Defeating a Doombringer - there were 5 in my campaign - took several adventures for each.
Lastly, the PCs ran into a cult of clerics that worshiped Raa'G'aat - which the PCs later discovered used to be "Rajaat," but over the centuries, the name had changed... These cultists had no real connection to Rajaat and understood very little about him or his influence on Athas, but my players had to change their shorts a few times while they were figuring that out :D
My philosophy has been use a thread of truth as surround it with as much B.S. as possible - the players will figure it out, and if they don't, you can always surprise'em with it later.
As far as actually putting Rajaat in my campaign? No way! The PCs panic even when they hear the title "sorcerer-king," let alone meet them - Kinda like Harry Potter and "You know who!" SHHHHHHHHH!
In my DS Campaign, the sorcerer-kings are not defined by Levels - their powers are, but that's all. I akin them to 'gods' and Rajaat would be above even that! BTW, my campaign takes place after the fall of Kalak, but all "cannon" after that has been ignored and I'm following my own timeline.
Whatever you decide to do: HAVE FUN! :D
Originally posted by kaishakunin
I haven't posted in a long time, wow....
Anyway, in my DS campaign, Rajaat, like many others have said, is in the background. Except for the most educated of clerics, wizards, and defilers, Rajaat is the stuff of legend - no one really beleives in the myths - they are thought of as creation myths or stories to scare travelers from venturing too far into the desert.
I did however, use Doombringers - avatars of Rajaat to collect items of power to free Rajaat from the Hollow during a series of adventures. I fashioned them after the Ring Wraiths on LotR with a Dark Sun twist. These Doombringers gave the god-like sorcerer-kings pause enough that these monarchs cooperated with PCs to defeat the avatars of Rajaat. Defeating a Doombringer - there were 5 in my campaign - took several adventures for each.
Lastly, the PCs ran into a cult of clerics that worshiped Raa'G'aat - which the PCs later discovered used to be "Rajaat," but over the centuries, the name had changed... These cultists had no real connection to Rajaat and understood very little about him or his influence on Athas, but my players had to change their shorts a few times while they were figuring that out :D
My philosophy has been use a thread of truth as surround it with as much B.S. as possible - the players will figure it out, and if they don't, you can always surprise'em with it later.
As far as actually putting Rajaat in my campaign? No way! The PCs panic even when they hear the title "sorcerer-king," let alone meet them - Kinda like Harry Potter and "You know who!" SHHHHHHHHH!
In my DS Campaign, the sorcerer-kings are not defined by Levels - their powers are, but that's all. I akin them to 'gods' and Rajaat would be above even that! BTW, my campaign takes place after the fall of Kalak, but all "cannon" after that has been ignored and I'm following my own timeline.
Whatever you decide to do: HAVE FUN! :D
Those are some dang good ideas, there.
They're mine now. bwahahaha.
yay for plaigerism!
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
Those are some dang good ideas, there.
They're mine now. bwahahaha.
yay for plaigerism!
And plaigerism for DMing is perfactly legle (YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!)
I will not be using Rajaat for in my games, the PC's will think to highly themselvs.