Anyway, one thing that came up for me was how to handle wild talents. I love the 'Inborn power" and the +1 LA that Noonan came up with, but I don't like the fact that only humans have varied powers. So I came up with my own little system I thought I'd share.
Wild Powers
Everyone on Athas has an inborn power. This innate talent is known as a wild power. Each race gains a certain number of power points at 1st level to manifest their wild power. Manifester level with the inborn power is equal to the character’s level; Charisma is used to set the save DC unless the character has levels in a psionic class that uses a different ability score to determine the save DC. In that case, the character chooses the better of the two ability scores to set the save DC.
If the character takes levels in a class that offers a repertoire of psionic powers, simply add the power points to the character’s power point total, and add the inborn power to the list of powers known. Because all Athasians are inherently psionic, the following feats from the Expanded Psionics Manual cannot be taken: Antipsionic Magic, Chaotic Mind, Closed Mind, Force of Will, Mental Resistance, and Psionic Hole.
At character creation, the player rolls percentile dice and consults the table below to determine his wild power. If the character is a human or half-elf, he gains additional wild powers at later levels. In these instances, it is the DM’s discretion as to what powers to assign or allow the players to select from. The minor powers below were selected from the psychic warrior power list, the medium powers from the psion power list, and the major powers from the psion normal and discipline lists.
Wild Powers
d% Result
01-60 Roll on Table 1: Minor Wild Powers
61-70 Select any power from Table 1: Minor Wild Powers
71-90 Roll on Table 2: Medium Wild Powers
91-95 Select any power from Table 2: Medium Wild Powers
96-00 Roll on Table 3: Major Wild Powers
Table 1: Minor Wild Powers
1d20 Power
1 Biofeedback
2 Burst
3 Catfall
4 Chameleon
5 Conceal Thoughts
6 Detect Psionics
7 Distract
8 Elfsight
9 Empty Mind
10 Float
11 Grip of Iron
12 Inertial Armor
13 Precognition, Defensive
14 Precognition, Offensive
15 Prevenom Weapon
16 Skate
17 Stomp
18 Synesthete
19 Thicken Skin
20 Vigor
Table 2: Medium Wild Powers
1d20 Power
1 Attraction
2 Call to Mind
3 Control Flames
4 Control Light
5 Create Sound
6 Daze
7 Deceleration
8 Déjà vu
9 Demoralize
10 Disable
11 Dissipating Touch
12 Empathy
13 Far Hand
14 Grease
15 Hammer
16 Know Direction and Location
17 Mind Thrust
18 Missive
19 Sense Link
20 Telempathic Projection
Table 3: Major Wild Powers
1d10 Power
1 Call Weaponry
2 Charm
3 Control Object
4 Crystal Shard
5 Destiny Dissonance
6 Energy Ray
7 Force Screen
8 Matter Agitation
9 Mindlink
10 Minor Creation
Adamantyr
hehe... Adamantyr, nice system. Screams too much like the 2e system tho, and I am not fond of making my characters be forced to take some random ability without their say in the matter. Players like, wanna feel they're in control and stuff. The reality of the situation being that they aren't, but let's not muddy up the argument with reality. I prefer more subtle methods of controlling the group than enforcing a random power system. Plus, I LIKE the new Wild Talent system from the XPH - it's perfect.
As an alternative, I think it would be much better to say create several templates. One at ECL+1 and one at ECL+4. The ECL+3 version would give you one psi-like power of you choice from one discipline usable once per day with manifester level equal to character level. The ECL+1 version would halve the rate of advancement.
This gives you similiar rate of advancement of spell like powers to say Half celestial without all the other benefits that template gets. Thus the rough math nets you an ECL+3.
By keeping the powers solely within one discipline, you can offer some limited choice whilst still retaining the one-trick wonder feel that Wild Talents generated.
Of course with the Wilder Class now, the whole wild talent thing should be a moot point, but some threads never seem to die.
regards
the cute and fluffy DM
Originally posted by Dorksun
I agree that randomisation is uncool.
That depends. I'd rather have players pick their own wild talents, but if they wanted a random roll, then this would work for them. I'd use such a system as an option for those who wanted it.
Of course with the Wilder Class now, the whole wild talent thing should be a moot point, but some threads never seem to die.
See the Hidden Talent feat in the XPH.
Originally posted by Sysane
The problem I faced with letting PC pick their talent was 6 out of the 9 chose the same psi power which was pretty lame.
Yes, that's why I avoided just allowing characters to select their powers. It leads to min/maxing.
To be honest, Dark Sun's wild talents remind me of the Red Steel campaign setting's "legacies", which were essentially spell-like abilities for all characters.
As for whether or not making every character a wild talent is good or bad, that's for the individual DM to decide. It's relatively easy to cut out the "inborn power" advantage on Noonan's races if you so desire.
Adamantyr
But honestly, a single level-1 power isn't gonna constitute min-maxing. And my groups have learned that if they all chose the same power, I only punish them for it and teach them exactly how useless that power was. If the infamous force-screen popus up numerous times - it's funny how they always run into creatures with touch attacks or spells/powers and thus invalidate the whole AC bonus it provides. Min/maxing, by definition, is where the player willingly reduces some of the character's abilities (and by this I mean more than just the d20 Abilities) to drastically improve another, thus producing a 2-dimentional character. The beauty of this is that while the character seems unstoppable one way, they are usually wide open for attack a number of other ways that the player was blinded to when they made their "super character".
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Well, that's why I like the new Wild Talents - they don't get a power. I just make everyone have at least one automatic power point, and can choose psionic feats.
Oh yeah, I like the XPH's approach as well. This is my first campaign with the XPH rules, though, and I want to testbed it thorougly, so having wild talents for everybody helps with that. I like the conservative approach as well, though. Plus it still means everyone on Athas is "psionic".
But honestly, a single level-1 power isn't gonna constitute min-maxing.
True enough. In my case, I have some players who won't know much about psionics at all, so it's just easier to relieve them of the burden of a choice.
Adamantyr
Besides, if a DM decide to give Hidden Talent feat for free, the least a player can do is accept this free random power. If they want a specific power, they can pick it by choosing it with their 1rst-level feat.
In 2E, Wild Talents we random because they were inbord talents... The character learned they had this power when they were young, didn't really know how they got it, or what it really did at first.
The character didn't choose to have this talent, and didn't chose what it did. So personnaly, a random power is much more appropriate as Wild Talent, than choosing that power just because it patch a weakness of your class.
Sure, the power can be useless to your class, like Inertial Armor for a Fighter, but you never know when it can be usefull... And you don't choose a gift. You can choose what you will do in life, but not the colour of your eyes.
Kurkamor
regards
the cute and fluffy DM
Originally posted by Dorksun
The problem with random is that it frequently messes with your character idea, much as can a very good or bad set of dice rolls.
I understand your point of view... But I don't see how a free bonus random power can mess with a character.. It's only a little something to spice up a character. I understand if you meen a dwarf getting my light, or an elf getting some low-light vision power... But any decent DM will know that the character can't possibly need that in any circonstance... So it's up to the DM to show a little good sence and have the player reroll...
But any other power can't mess with a character... Would you mind giving some example please? Perhaps I'd be able to see better...
K
Originally posted by Kurkamor
I understand your point of view... But I don't see how a free bonus random power can mess with a character.. It's only a little something to spice up a character. I understand if you meen a dwarf getting my light, or an elf getting some low-light vision power... But any decent DM will know that the character can't possibly need that in any circonstance... So it's up to the DM to show a little good sence and have the player reroll...
But any other power can't mess with a character... Would you mind giving some example please? Perhaps I'd be able to see better...
K
Well, let's say you do like I do, which is come up with a concept, then fill out the concept into a full-fledged idea for the character - attempting to bring everything together - including maybe some background on what that little power is, and how the character had used it in his former life. Maybe it's a key idea for the character - someone with the Force Screen power would have a slightly different than someone with Catfall, or someone with Bolt. You really can't say how it falls into the realm of importance for that player's idea of a character. I have background history, personality appearance, attitude, and all other story elements done long before I even start to look at a character sheet or generate my first ability score. I don't necessarily have it all written down, but I still keep it in the forefront of my mind while I build my character.
Requiring a random power during generation, can throw this out of whack, and makes me feel like a part of my character is not really "mine". It also tends to make more of a focus on roll-playing than role-playing to me. I don't like a mechanic that cheapens my experience. Which is why when I make my own campaigns, I don't use mechanics that cheapen the experience for myself, or my players. I even go so far as to pretty much alter all kinds of different things to keep the focus more on the setting, the world, the campaign and the characters. Randomizing anything in character generation to me lessens that effect (I don't even allow for random ability generation, I strictly use the point-based system) I guess you could say I like letting my players make their own choices for their characters, rather than the roll of a die.
Originally posted by Dorksun
The problem with random is that it frequently messes with your character idea, much as can a very good or bad set of dice rolls.
If the player is basing his/her entire character around what wild talent they have, then they should be taking one or more levels in a psionic class. Or spend a feat, like on Hidden Talent for example. If the talent is free, I don't really see how anyone can complain (unless they get something truly worthless, like astral traveler, which is why I removed that power, and a few others, from my own wild talent tables). The vast majority of the 1st level psion/psywar powers are useful abilities to have, regardless of your class.
Originally posted by ardnutz
i'm a 2e player but i always liked the random roll. added a little for flavor i always thought.
Yeah, added a little flavor. . . except when you rolled. . .
"Oh no, Feel sound?!? What the heck am I supposed to do with that?"
Hehehehe...
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Requiring a random power during generation, can throw this out of whack, and makes me feel like a part of my character is not really "mine". It also tends to make more of a focus on roll-playing than role-playing to me. I don't like a mechanic that cheapens my experience. Which is why when I make my own campaigns, I don't use mechanics that cheapen the experience for myself, or my players. I even go so far as to pretty much alter all kinds of different things to keep the focus more on the setting, the world, the campaign and the characters. Randomizing anything in character generation to me lessens that effect (I don't even allow for random ability generation, I strictly use the point-based system) I guess you could say I like letting my players make their own choices for their characters, rather than the roll of a die.
While i understand what you mean, i have a different opinion: a wild talent is just that - a wild card! something unpredictable in your character and in your game. it's a matter of NOT accounting for a granted power when you create your character, ignoring it. then when you roll it, just find a way of including it in your character's history (which, i admit, can change it depending on the power). When i DMed 2e, some of my players had totally useless powers and never used them or even included them in their character history, like they didn't have the power. others would get frightening awesome powers that would totally unbalance the game. but that's why it was called wild talent. sort of like the bloodline system in Birthright.
Me, i don't really like the random powers table, but for balance reasons. flavourwise i think it's a cool idea but i've had too many PCs totally outshine the others because of the extra edge the specfic power gave them. i think i like your idea of giving everyone the wild talent feat which grants them the possibility of choosing psionic feats.
i like streamlined games.
Xlorep, you said in your campaign every race is innately psionic and having 1 free power point. Does that mean nobody can take feats like "Closed Mind" or "Hostile Mind"?
In mine you either have hidden talent or closed mind. I'm not letting up on the Chr of 10+ preq. Why reward min/maxers that can't at least bump their Chr to a 10 with psionics.
Originally posted by Elonarc
Xlorep, you said in your campaign every race is innately psionic and having 1 free power point. Does that mean nobody can take feats like "Closed Mind" or "Hostile Mind"?
Basically, yes. Those two feats aren't available on my Dark Sun. But, I'm completely fine with it, as are my players, since they get the entire list of psionic feats (save for those specific to manifesting powers - and of course, not metapsionic or psionic item creation feats) without needing to take an extra feat or taking levels in a psionic class. They like that, and the loss of those two feats (or any others that are similar) is well worth the gain.