I'd also like to see some info on the skyships of Mystara, ala the Princess Ark. Actually, a Princess Ark article dealing with the ship and stats for the notable crewmembers would be spot on.
Originally posted by havard
Actually, we might be able to handle part of this one ourselves. Which feats and spells would be required to create a Skyship, or a Voidship of Mystara?`
Any Item Creation experts who can help?
Well, I am certainly no expert, but I'd say that at the very least we'll need to convert a lot of the good old spells from the Dawn of the Emperors boxed set - Alphatia player's guide:
Ironform
Steelform
Woodform
Stoneform (also creates glass-like crystal)
Create Air
to create the hull of the ship. For propulsion and to counter gravity we'll need Fly or Leviate spells. Maybe even Control Winds (but isn't that a druid spell?)
And then of course a h... of a lot of Permanency spells to put it all together.
With new 3E spells such as Endure Elements perhaps the hull should be enchanted to resist damage from Dragon breath or similar threats?
Interesting thought about Item Creation feats. I have been pondering for a while whether to introduce Create Construct Feat IMC to allow wizards to create golems etc.
But ships (of flying Alphatian castles!) are so different that a single feat is hardly enough to master constructing them all ?
Perhaps a Magical Engineering Feat I-III reflecting size and complexity of the creation? MEF I would be a prerequisite to taking MEF II etc.
That would certainly guarantee that only the mightiest wizards set about building flying ships and castles!
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
The Stronghold Builder's Guidebook has rules for creating things out of just about any materiel and the cost for enchanting them to fly. That would be the closest "canon" 3e D&D I can think of. That makes for some very expensive skyships in 3e terms, though (money is scarcer in 3e than in OD&D). The Bastion Press Airships makes for more affordable skyships.
I actually don't mind having skyships be expensive. After all, Mystaran Skyships tend to be built by nation rulers rather than random adventurers. Karameikos so far only has a single Skyship, and most countries have none. Alphatia had a bunch of the ofcourse, but they had milennias to build them.
Maybe I should buy Stronhhold Builder's afterall...
Havard
Originally posted by havard
I actually don't mind having skyships be expensive.
There's expensive, then exorbitant, though.
After all, Mystaran Skyships tend to be built by nation rulers rather than random adventurers.
That's not really quite true, nor (IMO) should it be true.
If you look at the most famous Mystaran skyship, even an uber-skyship, it was not owned by a nation, but by a "random adventurer". Likewise, think of Oberak.
Now, most of what I tend to write up & post is "national", things on the grand scheme of things (like the Day of Renewal, or Thyatis' Armed Forces - or the writeup I did on Alphatian Military Skyships). But at bottom any RPG has to focus on those "random adventurers" - for skyships (or anything else) in the game to have relevance to a campaign, it must be at a level that adventurers can aspire to - CoM's Skyship Design Rules shouldn't be seen as just something for nations to engage in, impossible for adventurers to ever aspire to build and own and adventure with.
Of course, none of what adventurers build will be on the scale of an Alphatian Man of War as depicted on the "ship card", which was sort of an Uber-Skyship (SOL I in my writeup of Alphatia's skyships), costing over 27,000,000 gp to build. But Alphatia can't afford many of those (and it's really an inefficient use of funds to build them anyhow). But more "normal" skyships should be within the reach of adventurers - at least in campaigns that make use of skyships.
I mean, think about the Nation of FLoating Ar in Alphatia - it's very existance as a country, with people living on things floating in the air, more than implies that private people - wealthy ones, to be sure, but not just the government, can afford skyships, at least smallishones.
So, sure, expensive. Even more costly than they're really worth (if you think about it, and do cost/benefit & "opportunity cost" pricing - that is, what else could you buy with the same amount of money if you didn't buy this skyship - then you'll almost certainly come to the conclusion that most skyships cost more than they're worth). But not out of reach of adventurers with more money than good sense to buy.
And that does describe most adventuring parties - after all, that's what their money is for: to spend on things that are kewl, if not really the "wisest" investment.
by Porphyrogenitus
If you look at the most famous Mystaran skyship, even an uber-skyship, it was not owned by a nation, but by a "random adventurer".
Very true, but I think that it's naturally more likely for a privately owned skyship to become famous; I mean, look at all the heroic and epic things (or infamous things) the adventurers accomplish with them compared to the routines of a nations military versions. They are also much more likely to be uniquely identifible, i.e. the Princess Ark.
But more "normal" skyships should be within the reach of adventurers - at least in campaigns that make use of skyships.
I think that they tend to be built by nations in the sense that the majority, number-wise, are created by nations, but they are still made by wealthy and powerful adventurers (sometimes sponsored by a nation). These would naturally be the focus of most campaigns which feature skyships.
Originally posted by Porphyrogenitus
There's expensive, then exorbitant, though.
True, I haven't looked at the details though.
Nations as the main builders of flying ships
That's not really quite true, nor (IMO) should it be true.
If you look at the most famous Mystaran skyship, even an uber-skyship, it was not owned by a nation, but by a "random adventurer". Likewise, think of Oberak.
Now, most of what I tend to write up & post is "national", things on the grand scheme of things (like the Day of Renewal, or Thyatis' Armed Forces - or the writeup I did on Alphatian Military Skyships). But at bottom any RPG has to focus on those "random adventurers" - for skyships (or anything else) in the game to have relevance to a campaign, it must be at a level that adventurers can aspire to - CoM's Skyship Design Rules shouldn't be seen as just something for nations to engage in, impossible for adventurers to ever aspire to build and own and adventure with.
Of course, none of what adventurers build will be on the scale of an Alphatian Man of War as depicted on the "ship card", which was sort of an Uber-Skyship (SOL I in my writeup of Alphatia's skyships), costing over 27,000,000 gp to build. But Alphatia can't afford many of those (and it's really an inefficient use of funds to build them anyhow). But more "normal" skyships should be within the reach of adventurers - at least in campaigns that make use of skyships.
I mean, think about the Nation of FLoating Ar in Alphatia - it's very existance as a country, with people living on things floating in the air, more than implies that private people - wealthy ones, to be sure, but not just the government, can afford skyships, at least smallish ones.
You do have a point.
Thinking about it in a quasi historical perspective might bring our ideas together:
Historically, the state has never had much power. The power has been administered by individuals, usually nobles, or in some cases just the Emperor or King.
In return for their power, nobles were responsible for defending the country, but had other benefits, such as not having to pay taxes. This is the story of the classic feudal knights.
Perhaps this is also a way we can see the Alphatian Empire. Nobles have ships, in fact they may even be required to own at least one ship. They can do with it what they please, except when the country is at war in which case the nobles are required to offer their ships in military service.
Ar, probably has quite a few magical ships, though I propose that many commoners also use hot air baloons to travel between the Islands or down to the mainland (Pre WotI).
VotP also gave me the impression that Alphatians don't build flying ships anymore. Most of the ships, like the Princess Ark, were ancient, probably dating back to when the Alphatians arrived on Mystara. I might be mistaken about this, but that is what I seem to remember from reading VotP.
Heldann is a different story. In Heldann, the Order owns all the property of the Knights, including their Warbirds, which are afterall powered by Vanya's artifact, so they are a special case.
Thyatis AFAIK does not have many air ships pre WotI. From what I understand, the air ships you have been detailing are built after AC1010, right?`
Other countries might have one or two air ships that are usually built and owned by unique individuals, though they may also be required to provide these for the defence of their country by their ruler, should that country be attacked.
So, sure, expensive. Even more costly than they're really worth (if you think about it, and do cost/benefit & "opportunity cost" pricing - that is, what else could you buy with the same amount of money if you didn't buy this skyship - then you'll almost certainly come to the conclusion that most skyships cost more than they're worth). But not out of reach of adventurers with more money than good sense to buy.
And that does describe most adventuring parties - after all, that's what their money is for: to spend on things that are kewl, if not really the "wisest" investment.
I see your point, and I don't really disagree with it. There are however other alternative ways for an adventuring party to get ahold of a flying ship. They could be enlisted by a Dominion Ruler who owns a flying vessel to command it on special missions for that ruler. They could also defeat an enemy in posession of a flying ship and take control of it themselves.
Anyways, the above are just random thoughts. Let me know what you think and I'll ponder some more on this topic untill later.
Havard
