1) Warforged. I'm a big Blackmoor fan, and these things seem to fit right in. Where might they be found (as both PCs and NPCs)? There was talk before of placing Blackmoorian cultures on Jomphur in the HW. Warforged might fit right in there. I would remove the emphasis on battle and shift it to somethig else. Perhaps most warforged on Jomphur have expert class levels. They could be the work force of a more technomantic type Blackmoorian culture being preserved in the HW. The same could be said for warforged living with the Blacklore elves. One might also find warforged as part of some long buried and forgotten Blackmoorian cache on the outer world. Perhaps some still survive with their masters in Hidden Blackmoor (located in the World shield somewhere - see the vaults for more info).
2) Shifters. Shifters are a perfect result of ancient Taymoran necromancer experimentation. Their backstory as written in Eberron can even fit directly into Mystara with very little changes. Move them to Ierendi and surrounding areas. The lycanthropic purges might have driven them across the sea of dread and into the hinterlands, or perhaps westwards to the Savage Baronies. Other shifters might hail from up north near Denegoth, or from Limn in Alphatia (where lycanthropy was supposedly born).
3) Changelings. Who doesn't want doppleganger spawn running around, huh? Put these guys anywhere! Once again I think a very appropriate place would be in Ierendi/Minrothad where the legacy of Taymora can still be felt. Anywhere with intrigue would draw these guys in like moths to a fire. Glantri, Thyatis, Minrothad, Alphatia, Darokin...
4) Magewrites and Artificers. These classes are perfect for a multitude of use cases. Magewrites are perfect for filling out boltman positions on Alphatian airships, or for beefing up Thyatian legions. Artificers are a perfect match Blackmoorian type cultures.
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Here are some things that I don't think would fit particularly well in Mystara.
1) Dragonshards and Dragonmarked. These could work in a Mystaran setting, but it would take a lot of revisionism. The closest these come to is the guild houses of Minrothad. Perhaps some tweaking to make the two mesh.
2) Eberron magical transit. This is related to #1 above. Most transit (airships, the lightning rail) is based off of Dragonshards and controlled by the dragonmarked. The concepts are cool (and might find some use) but the mechanics are all wrong for Mystara.
3) There is a lot of fluff in the ECS. That's a good thing if you're planning or playing in Eberron, but not so good if you want to take chuncks out of the source book and place them into another setting.
All in all I'm very happy with the Eberron material. Quite a bit of it will find its way into my version of Mystara. If I think of any more ideas on this subject I'll post them here later.
Originally posted by chimpman
I just picked up a copy of the Eberron Campaign setting and I have to say I'm impressed with it. The reason I think I like it so much is that I think it has a very Mystaran feel to it. Anyway, I thouhgt it might be usefull to share with you some ideas I had for using Eberron material in a Mystaran campaign.
I've got my copy coming this week (tomorrow or Thursday, looks like). Broke down and decided to pick it up after seeing reader comments on ENWorld. Can't really comment too much on your thread so far, but I think I might have a thing or two to add:
1) Warforged...
Your ideas sound good. I especially like the idea of tying them in with the Blacklore elves. I think the Warforged would be a great addition- especially since they seem to be more along the lines of a "technomantic" Blackmoor, rather than a "technological" Blackmoor (which, IMO, works better for Mystara).
2) Shifters...
Again, don't see any problems with your suggestions. They seem pretty good. Minrothadders would probably have a problem with Shifters (due to the Night of Silver Knives, etc.) How would Shifters get along with Lycanthropes? (Does Eberron say anything about this?)
3) Changelings...
I think a good place for these guys would be in Sind- they would be ancestors of the Chambahara, the shapeshifters who ruled Sind for a period of time (ref: HWA3: Nightstorm and Champions of Mystara).
Maybe the Shifters have the Alphatian/Taymoran ties, like you mention, and the Changelings are from the west (Sindhi). Can we connect the Bhuts (from X4: Master of the Desert Nomads) with the Changelings?
4) Magewrites and Artificers...
[Drool]Man, I hope that book gets here soon... [/Drool]
1) Dragonshards and Dragonmarked.
I only know of these what I read in the recent Dragon, but I agree with you so far. I'm not sure I entirely liked the mechanics of them, but I'll withhold final judgement until I get the EbCS.
2) Shifters...
Again, don't see any problems with your suggestions. They seem pretty good. Minrothadders would probably have a problem with Shifters (due to the Night of Silver Knives, etc.) How would Shifters get along with Lycanthropes? (Does Eberron say anything about this?)
Does it ever ;). Shifters can basically take one of two positions: 1) They hate the purge because it affected someone they knew (a family member perhaps). 2) They actively participated in the purge to prove themselves to the 'normals'.
I think you're right to a certian extent about Thadders and Shifters in Mystara. Most Thadders would probably have a problem with shifters, but maybe not to the extent that they had problems with thropes. I see shifters as taking on the role of second class citizen. They are undesirables, but they do have their uses.
Lycanthropes in Eberron do not trust Shifters. Not at all. And since shifting is not contagious the way that lycanthropy is, those that were doing the purge (Thrane & the Silver Flame in Eberron) didn't find it necessary to wipe out the shifters. I think that in Mystara the attitudes between shifters and lycanthropes would be the same. The thropes just would not know who they could trust and who they couldn't. Not even their own families would be above suspicion.
3) Changelings...
I think a good place for these guys would be in Sind- they would be ancestors of the Chambahara, the shapeshifters who ruled Sind for a period of time (ref: HWA3: Nightstorm and Champions of Mystara).
Sind totally escaped my mind, but I love this idea. Perfect fit for changelings. Rakshasha also play a major role in Eberron, and the Lords of Dust might find use in Mystara/Sind as well. [In addition to normal Rakshasha there is also a more combat oriented variant.] Changelings could make perfect servants for these fiends.
Maybe the Shifters have the Alphatian/Taymoran ties, like you mention, and the Changelings are from the west (Sindhi). Can we connect the Bhuts (from X4: Master of the Desert Nomads) with the Changelings?
Hmmm... not sure about the Bhuts. Aren't they supposed to be some form of undead? There may be a way to tie them together, but I can't think of anything right now.
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As for Dragonshards, don't get me wrong. I think they work well for Eberron. It's just not something that I'd bring into a Mystara campaign. YMMV.
Can't wait to hear what you think after you get the book. I'm still not done reading it, so I'll post more here if I run into anything relevant.
Perhaps the Quori could be used as some form of outer beings or outer being servitors. Their back story fits rather well. Basically the Quori are outsiders (in this case from the plane of dreams) that invaded the material plane in the ancient past. Some ancient civ drove them off and sealed the planar access to the material forever (essentially creating a prison plane).
The same sort of plot is often used to describe the OBs and their servitors. Long ago the immortals trapped the OBs and some of their servitors in a prison plane. The cool thing about the quori is that they have devised a way to influence the material even from the confines of their prison. Long ago they manipulated mortals through dreams and were able to breed a race that was susceptible to possession. The Inspired now serve as vessels for quori souls, and the invasion of the Prime can begin again.
I think that the Dreaming Dark makes a perfect outer being, and the quori make perfect servitors. There is that whole psionic thing, but that can be worked out. Simple enough to substitute psionic powers for spell like abilities if that's your preference.
More ideas as they come.
An Idea on Blacklore
I do like the idea of using the Warforged with Mystara. That seems like the most original idea with Eberron so far. The Warforged could be created by the Blackmoor civilization like you suggest, perhaps we could also link them to the origins of Meks, or perhaps Mek is the name for Warforged on Mystara.
Having Warforged in Blacklore sounds like a good idea. I've always felt that something needed to be done with those silly elves. What if instead of the current version of Blacklore, we make the elves less of a technological, quasi-rw parody, and more of a fantasy culture that has become extremely decadent as it is based on a large number of Warforged Slaves. And perhaps the Warforged are becoming tired of being slaves to those lazy pompous elves. The elves should have some means of controlling the Warforged, perhaps magical rods that can deactivate the Warforged. A few have managed to steal and destroy their rods and escaped to other parts of the HW (including the Lighthouse), but the majority of Warforged still remain under Blacklore Elf control.
What do you think?
Havard
WHY would you mix Eberron with Mystara? I don't see the two having much in common.
The Warforged idea is pretty cool, certainly, but Blackmoor tech is forbidden on Mystara, and I seriously doubt the Immortals have gone to great lengths to preserve Blackmoor in the HW, given the fact that the GRoF caught them by surprise AND that the Blacklore elves in the HW have been stripped by the Immortals with the knowledge of Blackmoor technology (HW clearly states the Immortals power the fake "tech" of the Blacklore elves with their magic). Therefore the Warforged is highly unlikely coming from that source. OTOH Alphatia could have engineered something like this... or the gnomes, FWIW..
Changelings are cool too, but we already have plenty of other unique shapechanging races on Mystara to use, don't we (randara, polymars and metamorphs to new a few)?;)
Shifters... uhm... do you say Pure Alphatian lycantropes? ;)
Magewrights are perfect in Alphatia, while Artificers could fit in the gnomish society, but I wouldn't introduce them "massively" as they are in Eberron.
As for Dragonshards and Lightning Rail, no, I don't think they could fit in Mystara (unless you tell me drow and Red Wizards do as well... in that case we clearly have a different vision of Mystara..
)Originally posted by DM
The Warforged idea is pretty cool, certainly, but Blackmoor tech is forbidden on Mystara, and I seriously doubt the Immortals have gone to great lengths to preserve Blackmoor in the HW, given the fact that the GRoF caught them by surprise AND that the Blacklore elves in the HW have been stripped by the Immortals with the knowledge of Blackmoor technology (HW clearly states the Immortals power the fake "tech" of the Blacklore elves with their magic). Therefore the Warforged is highly unlikely coming from that source. OTOH Alphatia could have engineered something like this... or the gnomes, FWIW..
Marco, that you? Long time!
As with official Blacklore Tech, Warforged may have been changed from being tech based to becoming magic based. Or they may have been magic based in the first place. OTOH, I seem to recall that the immortals have made sure that BL devices dont work outside the valley, so we'd need to find some way around that. Perhaps the Warforged have a benefactor among the Immortals? Rafiel or Benekander come to mind....
Alphatian or Gnomish Warforged is a possibily aswell though.
Havard
Originally posted by DM
Just a quick post to ask:
WHY would you mix Eberron with Mystara? I don't see the two having much in common.
I disagree with you here. I actually think that Eberron and Mystara have a lot in common, it's just the wrappings that differ. I'll use alignments as an example. On Eberron the buzz words are "shades of gray". That can certianly be said for Mystara where the focus on alignments is on the Law-Chaos axis as opposed to the Good-Evil axis. Shades of gray is very Mystaran. I also think that 'magi-tech' is a very Mystaran thing as well. Airships, gnomish walking train caravans (from AC 11 or whatever it was), ironclads, submarines, earth tunnelers, magic elevators... all these things exist in Mystara. My only qualm with using Eberron versions of these items lies in the mechanics of dragonshards (which I do not think fit into Mystara).
As to why? Why not. It's got some interesting game mechanics, and some fun new racial choices. I don't see any reason why I should be disallowed from using these things in MY MYSTARA. And I thought I'd share my ideas here. This is the forum for that right?
The Warforged idea is pretty cool, certainly, but Blackmoor tech is forbidden on Mystara, and I seriously doubt the Immortals have gone to great lengths to preserve Blackmoor in the HW, given the fact that the GRoF caught them by surprise AND that the Blacklore elves in the HW have been stripped by the Immortals with the knowledge of Blackmoor technology (HW clearly states the Immortals power the fake "tech" of the Blacklore elves with their magic). Therefore the Warforged is highly unlikely coming from that source. OTOH Alphatia could have engineered something like this... or the gnomes, FWIW..
But warforged are not 'pure technology'. They are living constructs, and constructs seem to do fine on Mystara. It's only the mixing of technology and magic that caused the GRoF. Warforged are purely magical beings.
Now as to the suggestion about gnomes (whether you were being sarcastic or not)... I actually like this idea. Seems like it might fit in with those gnomes on Vulcania. Would they be medium sized warforged or small sized? Warforged titans would fit the role of large gnomish battling mechs as well.
Changelings are cool too, but we already have plenty of other unique shapechanging races on Mystara to use, don't we (randara, polymars and metamorphs to new a few)?;)
I'll grant you that... but the one thing that Changelings provide is game mechanics for a PC playable race. If you're going to restrict them to NPC status, then I agree, there's no need to have them in Mystara.
Shifters... uhm... do you say Pure Alphatian lycantropes? ;)
I don't agree. Shifters are not lycanthropes. They are way underpowered for that. They can't even assume a pure animal form. Their "shifting" ability is little more than a pumped up version of a barbarian's rage. Still cool though. Could they fit in Alphatia. Yeah, I think so.
As for Dragonshards and Lightning Rail, no, I don't think they could fit in Mystara (unless you tell me drow and Red Wizards do as well... in that case we clearly have a different vision of Mystara..
If you re-read my post you will see that I clearly agree with you here.
Originally posted by havard
An Idea on Blacklore
I do like the idea of using the Warforged with Mystara. That seems like the most original idea with Eberron so far. The Warforged could be created by the Blackmoor civilization like you suggest, perhaps we could also link them to the origins of Meks, or perhaps Mek is the name for Warforged on Mystara.
Having Warforged in Blacklore sounds like a good idea. I've always felt that something needed to be done with those silly elves. What if instead of the current version of Blacklore, we make the elves less of a technological, quasi-rw parody, and more of a fantasy culture that has become extremely decadent as it is based on a large number of Warforged Slaves. And perhaps the Warforged are becoming tired of being slaves to those lazy pompous elves. The elves should have some means of controlling the Warforged, perhaps magical rods that can deactivate the Warforged. A few have managed to steal and destroy their rods and escaped to other parts of the HW (including the Lighthouse), but the majority of Warforged still remain under Blacklore Elf control.
Havard I like both of these ideas. What if leaving the BL valley doesn't actually cause a warforged to stop working, but does cause it to stop working properly ;) . This might account for the seemingly mindless behavior of Meks.
I have to say though that I find your second idea more intriguing though. Rafiel as a patron of warforged? heh. Perfect! Finding a way to get them out of the BL valley is yet one more way that he can oppose the order of the 'normal' immortals. In fact it all sounds like a great adventure idea. PCs come into valley and are confronted with the plight of the warforged (who are clearly sentient, but who the elves take for granted as a slave labor force). Said PCs have the means to free them from the hold of the valley (or can acquire it). Will they do so? If they do, what happens next? Muhahaha.
Originally posted by chimpman
Havard I like both of these ideas. What if leaving the BL valley doesn't actually cause a warforged to stop working, but does cause it to stop working properly ;) . This might account for the seemingly mindless behavior of Meks.
I have to say though that I find your second idea more intriguing though. Rafiel as a patron of warforged? heh. Perfect! Finding a way to get them out of the BL valley is yet one more way that he can oppose the order of the 'normal' immortals. In fact it all sounds like a great adventure idea. PCs come into valley and are confronted with the plight of the warforged (who are clearly sentient, but who the elves take for granted as a slave labor force). Said PCs have the means to free them from the hold of the valley (or can acquire it). Will they do so? If they do, what happens next? Muhahaha.
Chimp, Im glad you liked those ideas
Having the BL valley spell cause Warforged who leave become mindless is a good idea. As suggested, Warforged sometimes escape this fate through the aid of Rafiel or Benekander.
The Warforged in Blacklore idea IMO can be used to change Blacklore from being a silly near-useless setting into becoming a country with alot of adventure potential, like the adventure idea you propose illustrates.
BL Valley may not be the only place Warforged exist on Mystara. Since they were created in Blackmoor, they may be found in other lost places aswell, waiting to be activated. Still BL is probably the place where the heaviest concentration of Warforged exist.
Havard
Originally posted by havard
The Warforged in Blacklore idea IMO can be used to change Blacklore from being a silly near-useless setting into becoming a country with alot of adventure potential, like the adventure idea you propose illustrates.
I agree. Never could find any use for those BL elves before.
On a similar note I think that shifters and changelings could spice up Hawai... I mean Ierendi a bit. Out with the tourism and in with the remnants of ancient Taymora! ;) Spies and mercenaries. Hmmm...
Just thinking off the cuff here... Maybe the changelings have set themselves up with a nice little kingdom on Ierendi. They pull the strings in Ierendi and at the same time make sure it appears to be something it's not. I'd just as soon trash the whole tourism idea outright, but Ierendi could be set up as a place to "get away" to. Underlying it all are the ancient lycanthropic bloodlines and their shifter shock troops.
The changelings have their fingers on the pulse of the known world. They know when wars will start (perhaps because they manufacture them) and so they know who to sell their troops to. The lycanthropes lead Ierrendi mercenary troops on the battlefield. Hmmm... I wonder if they have any ties to the lycanthropes in Glantri...
Shifter traits can make the different beastmen in a tribe stand out from one another. I'm sure we could develop more traits if we wanted to as well.
hmmm...