ToHS Preview #1 - Daltigoth: The Crimson Keep - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

ToHS Preview #1 - Daltigoth: The Crimson Keep

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragonhelm
Jun 23, 2004 9:46:08 Sovereign Press has just released the first preview of their upcoming book, Towers of High Sorcery. Check it out!

Daltigoth: The Crimson Keep
#2
brimstone
Jun 23, 2004 9:50:27 Shucks...no interior map? Ah well...I think I read in another sourcebook that the interiors of the towers were all relatively the same, anyway.

This looks great, though (on a cursorary glance). I'll be reading it this evening in full and let you know what I think.

July to mid-August-ish can't get here soon enough.
#3
cam_banks
Jun 23, 2004 9:56:28 The interiors of the Towers are freaky and don't play nice with cartographers. Raistlin's laboratory, for instance, was much bigger on the inside than it should have been.

Think of the Doctor's TARDIS and you'll be on the right track.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
iltharanos
Jun 23, 2004 20:48:51
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Sovereign Press has just released the first preview of their upcoming book, Towers of High Sorcery. Check it out!

Daltigoth: The Crimson Keep

Very very nice. I especially like the sidebar about the Red Robe Archmage and his life story. Can't wait till the next preview a week from now!
#5
sweetmeats
Jun 24, 2004 5:49:37 Thats a nice preview and I love the picture of the tower - very different from the usual minaret style that the Black Tower has.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jun 24, 2004 8:47:47 Very nice. I'm loving it (to coin a phrase) I can't wait to see more, better yet wrap my fingers around it. I love the detail they go into and how not only does it have a different grove but different guardians as well. Very nice.
#7
theredrobedwizard
Jun 24, 2004 9:47:59 So yes, I'm stealing the design and building my tower just outside the fair city of Port Balifor.

No one will stop me from attaining my goal of having a full sized model of the Tower of Daltigoth in the Desolation...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

-TRRW
#8
zombiegleemax
Jun 24, 2004 10:05:23 Any idea when this product will be released?
#9
ferratus
Jun 24, 2004 10:06:31 I imagine there will be interior maps, but the problem with the Towers of High Sorcery is that they are such massive structures that they will probably only have the most frequently used rooms mapped out, rather than the complex entire. With the massive size of these Towers, and the freaky extra-dimensions it would probably be difficult. I imagine then that they will look like the maps of Wayreth we have received before.

Of course, we could be suprised with full interior maps, and I certainly wouldn't complain.

Are we going to see descriptions of the Tower of High Sorcery as post-cataclysm dungeons in the book as well? Or in a web enhancement mayhaps? Not strictly necessary, but nice nonetheless.
#10
brimstone
Jun 24, 2004 10:09:13
Originally posted by ferratus
Are we going to see descriptions of the Tower of High Sorcery as post-cataclysm dungeons in the book as well? Or in a web enhancement mayhaps? Not strictly necessary, but nice nonetheless.

I haven't gotten that far yet in Key of Destiny, but don't we already have this with the Losarcum Tower?
#11
cam_banks
Jun 24, 2004 10:14:06
Originally posted by Brimstone
I haven't gotten that far yet in Key of Destiny, but don't we already have this with the Losarcum Tower?

That's the Peak of Malys, not the tower, which no longer really has much of a structure to speak of, just foundations etc.

There aren't going to be interior maps of the Towers, as they are essentially unmappable. They don't conform to physical dimensions and are more or less like Doctor Who's TARDIS. Dungeon Masters are free to put any kind of room in them that they feel like, at whatever dimensions or measurements are suitable for the scene in question.

Cheers,
Cam
#12
cam_banks
Jun 24, 2004 10:15:36
Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
Any idea when this product will be released?

In about 4 to 6 weeks. Maybe less, depending. It's at the printers, so it's all go now.

Cheers,
Cam
#13
brimstone
Jun 24, 2004 10:16:35
Originally posted by Cam Banks
There aren't going to be interior maps of the Towers, as they are essentially unmappable.

I s'pose that works for me. If need be, I've already got maps for the two standing towers...so I could just retrofit something like that.

However, I somehow doubt I'll every really need them.
#14
cam_banks
Jun 24, 2004 10:19:53
Originally posted by Brimstone
However, I somehow doubt I'll every really need them.

Right, it's not as if you'll be populating them with random monsters and having the players go from room to room killing them off. ;)

I do understand why people like maps, though. I'm a big fiend for maps, deckplans, etc. I find however that I very rarely use them in games, unless there's a specific fight going on in a room and I need to draw it out on the battlemat. Even then, I usually make that up on the spot. A fight in the streets of Ak-Khurman a couple of sessions ago was handled by my drawing some buildings along each side of a stretch of street, and a well in the middle. No map was used as a reference, even though there is one in the Key of Destiny.

Cheers,
Cam
#15
brimstone
Jun 24, 2004 10:22:36
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I find however that I very rarely use them in games, unless there's a specific fight going on in a room and I need to draw it out on the battlemat.

I really need to get one of those...but they're damned expensive...and besides, my local game hasn't had one for over a month anyway.

They seem like they'd be extremely helpful for fights and the like...and maybe dungeon crawling as well (although that might get a bit tedious).
#16
zombiegleemax
Jun 24, 2004 10:55:47 WOW! WOW! I may have to restart a Dragonlance campaign now that these wonderful products are coming out!
#17
baron_the_curse
Jun 24, 2004 14:15:46
Originally posted by Cam Banks
The interiors of the Towers are freaky and don't play nice with cartographers. Raistlin's laboratory, for instance, was much bigger on the inside than it should have been.

Think of the Doctor's TARDIS and you'll be on the right track.

Cheers,
Cam

I don't know about that, the fold-out map in "The Last Tower" was beatifully detail. I don't see why a the interior should not be included for each Tower, even if is not a complete map. Just key areas would be nice.
#18
zombiegleemax
Jun 24, 2004 16:34:46 A group of wizards called "sea-mages" is mentioned. Is the Sea-mage to feature as a prestige class?
#19
baron_the_curse
Jun 24, 2004 17:18:16
Originally posted by cnposner
A group of wizards called "sea-mages" is mentioned. Is the Sea-mage to feature as a prestige class?

I really hope not. There already is about a thousand prestige classes for wizards including a decent share of sea mages, sea witches, sea mystics, pirate sorcerers, and so on.
#20
brimstone
Jun 24, 2004 17:56:28
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I really hope not. There already is about a thousand prestige classes for wizards including a decent share of sea mages, sea witches, sea mystics, pirate sorcerers, and so on.

The problem with that, though, is that they technically cannot be official Dragonlance PrCs (because they can only use the core rule books). Hence why things like the Shadow Dragon or the Advanced Dragon rules are both reprinted in the AoM even though they already exist in the Draconomicon and ELH, respectively.
#21
baron_the_curse
Jun 24, 2004 18:51:34 Well, if you want an official sea mage for Dragonlance then it would be nice if the book brought one, but personally just about any product with the d20 logo slap on it with material I like becomes official enough for my campaign. But I do see what you mean Brim. What I would really like to see though is a prestige class for Renegade hunters.
#22
baron_the_curse
Jun 24, 2004 19:15:26 I’m going to walk a thin line here since we can’t discuss novels. But in the Ergothian Trilogy the Tower of Daltigoth looks a lot different than the Crimson Bastion. The only reason I bring this up is because I thought that Dragonlance fiction novels and the gaming supplements where going to keep a better continuity. At least I remember reading something about that from SP. I could be wrong.
#23
brimstone
Jun 24, 2004 19:27:21
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
The only reason I bring this up is because I thought that Dragonlance fiction novels and the gaming supplements where going to keep a better continuity. At least I remember reading something about that from SP. I could be wrong.

Problem is...WotC can't police their own. The Kingpriest Trilogy and the Ergothian Trilogy disagreed with each other. They were most likely being written at the same time...but someone over there in the book department should have picked up on this. Ah well.

So...I'm guess that SP just had to make a choice.
#24
talinthas
Jun 24, 2004 20:09:09 well, i hear that one Chris Pierson happened to write that section of the ToHS book.... i understand that he's famous for something?
#25
kipper_snifferdoo_02
Jun 24, 2004 22:06:23
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I’m going to walk a thin line here since we can’t discuss novels. But in the Ergothian Trilogy the Tower of Daltigoth looks a lot different than the Crimson Bastion. The only reason I bring this up is because I thought that Dragonlance fiction novels and the gaming supplements where going to keep a better continuity. At least I remember reading something about that from SP. I could be wrong.

Well in the preview under Greytooth's Deception it talks about how the tower was raised as a white tower (as per A Warrior's Journey) but it later changed to the Crimson Bastion.

Now it says the next day after it was raised it changed, but I would think for continuity sake maybe it could have elvoved a but slower. ;)
#26
baron_the_curse
Jun 25, 2004 0:03:43 I'll buy that explanation Kipper. Eitherway, to be honest I like the description in the Tower of High Sorcery preview better. I love the artwork. Who's the artist? I've been noticing this new style of artwork, it seems semi-canvas meets comic book airbrush in style. Anyway, I can't wait for the book to hit store shelves.
#27
brimstone
Jun 25, 2004 11:09:04
Originally posted by talinthas
well, i hear that one Chris Pierson happened to write that section of the ToHS book.... i understand that he's famous for something?

Well, see, then that explains why the write up matches his trilogy and not PBT&TCC's.

That still doesn't excuse the fact that someone at WotC should have caught this.
Originally posted by Kipper
Now it says the next day after it was raised it changed, but I would think for continuity sake maybe it could have elvoved a but slower.

Works for me!
#28
zombiegleemax
Jun 25, 2004 16:21:31
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I really hope not. There already is about a thousand prestige classes for wizards including a decent share of sea mages, sea witches, sea mystics, pirate sorcerers, and so on.

Where exactly do these prestige classes appear? I have not come across any of them.
#29
Dragonhelm
Jun 25, 2004 16:40:02 I think Baron is referring to the large number of prestige classes produced by various d20 publishers, of which WotC is but one. Mongoose, for example, has two thick books called Ultimate Prestige Classes and Ultimate Prestige Classes II that are nothing but PrCs.

Towers of High Sorcery has some prestige classes in it designed for wizard characters in Dragonlance. One of them will be in an upcoming preview, which you won't want to miss.
#30
wdarkk
Jun 26, 2004 3:30:37 A couple things I'm concerned about - Why doesn't Vincil have any Epic feats (since the full Epic rules are now open) and why are there LN Gargoyle barbarians?
#31
quentingeorge
Jun 26, 2004 4:49:47 Vincil, being 21st level, would only have maximum of 1 epic feat.

Though why he was made 21st level, I don't know. 20th level would have been sufficient, and then you wouldn't have to worry with Epic rules.
#32
wdarkk
Jun 26, 2004 5:07:52 Well, if you wanted to give Krynn Epic Wizards he's one of the ones to do it.

I heard we'd get Raist's "High End" stats sometime. Anybody know about that?
That should be something. IMHO you'd need to be at least level 40 to take on a Greater God.
#33
quentingeorge
Jun 26, 2004 5:26:13 Level 40? That means Raistlin would be higher level than Elminster and Mordenkainen.

And I thought Krynn was supposed to be a low-powered world...

My opinion? Raistlin doesn't need to be any higher than a bit above or below 30 levels. Perhaps coming to the Material Plane of Krynn temporarily strips gods of their Divine Rank.
#34
wdarkk
Jun 26, 2004 5:36:53
Originally posted by QuentinGeorge
Perhaps coming to the Material Plane of Krynn temporarily strips gods of their Divine Rank.

Doesn't work that way. Takhisis had a Dragonlance shoved so deep in she should have died but didn't because she was a god. It's in either Winter Night or Spring Dawning. Huma hit her so hard she was being kept alive only by her divine power, and Kaz had to remove the lance.
#35
cam_banks
Jun 26, 2004 5:40:32
Originally posted by QuentinGeorge
Vincil, being 21st level, would only have maximum of 1 epic feat.

Though why he was made 21st level, I don't know. 20th level would have been sufficient, and then you wouldn't have to worry with Epic rules.

That's just how the levels assigned to him worked best. We weren't shooting for him to be one of those wizards loaded with epic feats, just an extremely capable wizard. You'll find that several epic-level characters in Dragonlance are not so much characterized by their possession of epic-level feats but by their combination of class levels, which is significant enough.

Cheers,
Cam
#36
iltharanos
Jun 26, 2004 6:40:59
Originally posted by wdarkk
A couple things I'm concerned about - Why doesn't Vincil have any Epic feats (since the full Epic rules are now open) and why are there LN Gargoyle barbarians?

Easy, the gargoyles are ex-barbarians. As ex-barbarians they retain all the abilities of regular barbarians save for the rage ability.
#37
baron_the_curse
Jun 26, 2004 13:07:57
Originally posted by wdarkk
A couple things I'm concerned about - Why doesn't Vincil have any Epic feats (since the full Epic rules are now open) and why are there LN Gargoyle barbarians?

When you gain 21st Level you may select an Epic Feat or a standard Feat. It's up to you. Epic Feats are not mandatory. The gargoyles are LN because that's what they are. There really is no alignment restriction in 3rd Edition. An Ogre can be a LG Paladin. Unlikely, but possible. As for the Barbarian class? It makes sense since their region is Ergoth. Besides what's the big deal, I can picture those gargoyles really cool when they Rage on unsuspecting invaders.
#38
baron_the_curse
Jun 26, 2004 13:09:58
Originally posted by iltharanos
Easy, the gargoyles are ex-barbarians. As ex-barbarians they retain all the abilities of regular barbarians save for the rage ability.

Damn, I forgot about the lost of Rage. Still, DR comes in handy.
#39
orodruin
Jun 27, 2004 9:32:12 So will the book contain rules for handling epic levels (sort of like how AoM had rules for Epic Dragons)? I mean, I for one have no intention to buy the epic level handbook, and would hate to have several epic level characters featured in DL without knowing how to deal with them.
#40
sweetmeats
Jun 27, 2004 9:55:10 Basic Epic level rules are in the 3.5 DMG.
#41
orodruin
Jun 27, 2004 10:10:22 Except I don't have that either. I already spent good money on the 3rd ed and I figured I could just sort out the differences when they come up. I didn't want to spend £20+ for a rules update.
#42
orodruin
Jun 27, 2004 10:25:42
Originally posted by wdarkk
Doesn't work that way. Takhisis had a Dragonlance shoved so deep in she should have died but didn't because she was a god. It's in either Winter Night or Spring Dawning. Huma hit her so hard she was being kept alive only by her divine power, and Kaz had to remove the lance.

It was in "The Legend of Huma", not Chronicles.

And it was established in the "Twins" trilogy that Takhisis (and presumably the other gods as well) was weaker and more vulnerable when she enters Krynn, which is why Raistlin knew he had to lure her out through the portal. He wouldn't have stood a ghost of a chance against her in the Abyss.

I also don't think he has to be an unbelievably high level like 40 to work. He could be something on the range of 27th and it would still be plausible. Remember DL doesn't necessarily follow the same rules as D&D and FR wrt how deities function. We don't know how much weaker Takhisis is when she manifests in Krynn, so even a mid 20-30th level Raistlin would manage if he uses his spells correctly.

Of course, if he does end up something like 40th level it would still make sense, I just don't think it's necessary to justify his achievements.
#43
sweetmeats
Jun 27, 2004 10:30:04
Originally posted by Orodruin
Except I don't have that either. I already spent good money on the 3rd ed and I figured I could just sort out the differences when they come up. I didn't want to spend £20+ for a rules update.

http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/epicLevels.html

Heres the Epic rules from the DMG from the SRD.
#44
wdarkk
Jun 27, 2004 14:14:55 Even without divine ranks, a deity is supposed to be 60th character level or so, except for screwy cases like Imenhotep. Not exactly easy.

I'm sure Huma's fight is mentioned in chronicles, since I've read that and not Legend of Huma.

Also, looking over the Divine SRD provides a hint as to how much weaker she is on the material plane - the material plane is not divinely morphic, so several SDAs don't function as well, and she can't just will the air to turn to iron and entomb him forever.
#45
orodruin
Jun 27, 2004 21:36:02
Originally posted by SweetMeats
http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/epicLevels.html

Heres the Epic rules from the DMG from the SRD.

Cool! Thanks a mil!
#46
wdarkk
Jun 27, 2004 22:11:41 The FULL Epic SRD is now available here.
#47
orodruin
Jun 28, 2004 3:24:46
Originally posted by wdarkk
The FULL Epic SRD is now available here.

Thanks too!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragonhelm Jun 23, 2004 9:46:08	Sovereign Press has just released the first preview of their upcoming book, Towers of High Sorcery. Check it out! Daltigoth: The Crimson Keep
#2 brimstone Jun 23, 2004 9:50:27	Shucks...no interior map? Ah well...I think I read in another sourcebook that the interiors of the towers were all relatively the same, anyway. This looks great, though (on a cursorary glance). I'll be reading it this evening in full and let you know what I think. July to mid-August-ish can't get here soon enough.
#3 cam_banks Jun 23, 2004 9:56:28	The interiors of the Towers are freaky and don't play nice with cartographers. Raistlin's laboratory, for instance, was much bigger on the inside than it should have been. Think of the Doctor's TARDIS and you'll be on the right track. Cheers, Cam
#4 iltharanos Jun 23, 2004 20:48:51	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Sovereign Press has just released the first preview of their upcoming book, Towers of High Sorcery. Check it out! Daltigoth: The Crimson Keep Very very nice. I especially like the sidebar about the Red Robe Archmage and his life story. Can't wait till the next preview a week from now!
#5 sweetmeats Jun 24, 2004 5:49:37	Thats a nice preview and I love the picture of the tower - very different from the usual minaret style that the Black Tower has.
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2004 8:47:47	Very nice. I'm loving it (to coin a phrase) I can't wait to see more, better yet wrap my fingers around it. I love the detail they go into and how not only does it have a different grove but different guardians as well. Very nice.
#7 theredrobedwizard Jun 24, 2004 9:47:59	So yes, I'm stealing the design and building my tower just outside the fair city of Port Balifor. No one will stop me from attaining my goal of having a full sized model of the Tower of Daltigoth in the Desolation... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! -TRRW
#8 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2004 10:05:23	Any idea when this product will be released?
#9 ferratus Jun 24, 2004 10:06:31	I imagine there will be interior maps, but the problem with the Towers of High Sorcery is that they are such massive structures that they will probably only have the most frequently used rooms mapped out, rather than the complex entire. With the massive size of these Towers, and the freaky extra-dimensions it would probably be difficult. I imagine then that they will look like the maps of Wayreth we have received before. Of course, we could be suprised with full interior maps, and I certainly wouldn't complain. Are we going to see descriptions of the Tower of High Sorcery as post-cataclysm dungeons in the book as well? Or in a web enhancement mayhaps? Not strictly necessary, but nice nonetheless.
#10 brimstone Jun 24, 2004 10:09:13	Originally posted by ferratus Are we going to see descriptions of the Tower of High Sorcery as post-cataclysm dungeons in the book as well? Or in a web enhancement mayhaps? Not strictly necessary, but nice nonetheless. I haven't gotten that far yet in Key of Destiny, but don't we already have this with the Losarcum Tower?
#11 cam_banks Jun 24, 2004 10:14:06	Originally posted by Brimstone *I haven't gotten that far yet in Key of Destiny, but don't we already have this with the Losarcum Tower?* That's the Peak of Malys, not the tower, which no longer really has much of a structure to speak of, just foundations etc. There aren't going to be interior maps of the Towers, as they are essentially unmappable. They don't conform to physical dimensions and are more or less like Doctor Who's TARDIS. Dungeon Masters are free to put any kind of room in them that they feel like, at whatever dimensions or measurements are suitable for the scene in question. Cheers, Cam
#12 cam_banks Jun 24, 2004 10:15:36	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn Any idea when this product will be released? In about 4 to 6 weeks. Maybe less, depending. It's at the printers, so it's all go now. Cheers, Cam
#13 brimstone Jun 24, 2004 10:16:35	Originally posted by Cam Banks There aren't going to be interior maps of the Towers, as they are essentially unmappable. I s'pose that works for me. If need be, I've already got maps for the two standing towers...so I could just retrofit something like that. However, I somehow doubt I'll every really need them.
#14 cam_banks Jun 24, 2004 10:19:53	Originally posted by Brimstone However, I somehow doubt I'll every really need them. Right, it's not as if you'll be populating them with random monsters and having the players go from room to room killing them off. ;) I do understand why people like maps, though. I'm a big fiend for maps, deckplans, etc. I find however that I very rarely use them in games, unless there's a specific fight going on in a room and I need to draw it out on the battlemat. Even then, I usually make that up on the spot. A fight in the streets of Ak-Khurman a couple of sessions ago was handled by my drawing some buildings along each side of a stretch of street, and a well in the middle. No map was used as a reference, even though there is one in the Key of Destiny. Cheers, Cam
#15 brimstone Jun 24, 2004 10:22:36	Originally posted by Cam Banks I find however that I very rarely use them in games, unless there's a specific fight going on in a room and I need to draw it out on the battlemat. I really need to get one of those...but they're damned expensive...and besides, my local game hasn't had one for over a month anyway. They seem like they'd be extremely helpful for fights and the like...and maybe dungeon crawling as well (although that might get a bit tedious).
#16 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2004 10:55:47	WOW! WOW! I may have to restart a Dragonlance campaign now that these wonderful products are coming out!
#17 baron_the_curse Jun 24, 2004 14:15:46	Originally posted by Cam Banks The interiors of the Towers are freaky and don't play nice with cartographers. Raistlin's laboratory, for instance, was much bigger on the inside than it should have been. Think of the Doctor's TARDIS and you'll be on the right track. Cheers, Cam I don't know about that, the fold-out map in "The Last Tower" was beatifully detail. I don't see why a the interior should not be included for each Tower, even if is not a complete map. Just key areas would be nice.
#18 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2004 16:34:46	A group of wizards called "sea-mages" is mentioned. Is the Sea-mage to feature as a prestige class?
#19 baron_the_curse Jun 24, 2004 17:18:16	Originally posted by cnposner A group of wizards called "sea-mages" is mentioned. Is the Sea-mage to feature as a prestige class? I really hope not. There already is about a thousand prestige classes for wizards including a decent share of sea mages, sea witches, sea mystics, pirate sorcerers, and so on.
#20 brimstone Jun 24, 2004 17:56:28	Originally posted by Baron the Curse I really hope not. There already is about a thousand prestige classes for wizards including a decent share of sea mages, sea witches, sea mystics, pirate sorcerers, and so on. The problem with that, though, is that they technically cannot be official Dragonlance PrCs (because they can only use the core rule books). Hence why things like the Shadow Dragon or the Advanced Dragon rules are both reprinted in the AoM even though they already exist in the Draconomicon and ELH, respectively.
#21 baron_the_curse Jun 24, 2004 18:51:34	Well, if you want an official sea mage for Dragonlance then it would be nice if the book brought one, but personally just about any product with the d20 logo slap on it with material I like becomes official enough for my campaign. But I do see what you mean Brim. What I would really like to see though is a prestige class for Renegade hunters.
#22 baron_the_curse Jun 24, 2004 19:15:26	I’m going to walk a thin line here since we can’t discuss novels. But in the Ergothian Trilogy the Tower of Daltigoth looks a lot different than the Crimson Bastion. The only reason I bring this up is because I thought that Dragonlance fiction novels and the gaming supplements where going to keep a better continuity. At least I remember reading something about that from SP. I could be wrong.
#23 brimstone Jun 24, 2004 19:27:21	Originally posted by Baron the Curse The only reason I bring this up is because I thought that Dragonlance fiction novels and the gaming supplements where going to keep a better continuity. At least I remember reading something about that from SP. I could be wrong. Problem is...WotC can't police their own. The Kingpriest Trilogy and the Ergothian Trilogy disagreed with each other. They were most likely being written at the same time...but someone over there in the book department should have picked up on this. Ah well. So...I'm guess that SP just had to make a choice.
#24 talinthas Jun 24, 2004 20:09:09	well, i hear that one Chris Pierson happened to write that section of the ToHS book.... i understand that he's famous for something?
#25 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Jun 24, 2004 22:06:23	Originally posted by Baron the Curse I’m going to walk a thin line here since we can’t discuss novels. But in the Ergothian Trilogy the Tower of Daltigoth looks a lot different than the Crimson Bastion. The only reason I bring this up is because I thought that Dragonlance fiction novels and the gaming supplements where going to keep a better continuity. At least I remember reading something about that from SP. I could be wrong. Well in the preview under Greytooth's Deception it talks about how the tower was raised as a white tower (as per A Warrior's Journey) but it later changed to the Crimson Bastion. Now it says the next day after it was raised it changed, but I would think for continuity sake maybe it could have elvoved a but slower. ;)
#26 baron_the_curse Jun 25, 2004 0:03:43	I'll buy that explanation Kipper. Eitherway, to be honest I like the description in the Tower of High Sorcery preview better. I love the artwork. Who's the artist? I've been noticing this new style of artwork, it seems semi-canvas meets comic book airbrush in style. Anyway, I can't wait for the book to hit store shelves.
#27 brimstone Jun 25, 2004 11:09:04	Originally posted by talinthas well, i hear that one Chris Pierson happened to write that section of the ToHS book.... i understand that he's famous for something? Well, see, then that explains why the write up matches his trilogy and not PBT&TCC's. That still doesn't excuse the fact that someone at WotC should have caught this. Originally posted by Kipper Now it says the next day after it was raised it changed, but I would think for continuity sake maybe it could have elvoved a but slower. Works for me!
#28 zombiegleemax Jun 25, 2004 16:21:31	Originally posted by Baron the Curse I really hope not. There already is about a thousand prestige classes for wizards including a decent share of sea mages, sea witches, sea mystics, pirate sorcerers, and so on. Where exactly do these prestige classes appear? I have not come across any of them.
#29 Dragonhelm Jun 25, 2004 16:40:02	I think Baron is referring to the large number of prestige classes produced by various d20 publishers, of which WotC is but one. Mongoose, for example, has two thick books called Ultimate Prestige Classes and Ultimate Prestige Classes II that are nothing but PrCs. Towers of High Sorcery has some prestige classes in it designed for wizard characters in Dragonlance. One of them will be in an upcoming preview, which you won't want to miss.
#30 wdarkk Jun 26, 2004 3:30:37	A couple things I'm concerned about - Why doesn't Vincil have any Epic feats (since the full Epic rules are now open) and why are there LN Gargoyle barbarians?
#31 quentingeorge Jun 26, 2004 4:49:47	Vincil, being 21st level, would only have maximum of 1 epic feat. Though why he was made 21st level, I don't know. 20th level would have been sufficient, and then you wouldn't have to worry with Epic rules.
#32 wdarkk Jun 26, 2004 5:07:52	Well, if you wanted to give Krynn Epic Wizards he's one of the ones to do it. I heard we'd get Raist's "High End" stats sometime. Anybody know about that? That should be something. IMHO you'd need to be at least level 40 to take on a Greater God.
#33 quentingeorge Jun 26, 2004 5:26:13	Level 40? That means Raistlin would be higher level than Elminster and Mordenkainen. And I thought Krynn was supposed to be a low-powered world... My opinion? Raistlin doesn't need to be any higher than a bit above or below 30 levels. Perhaps coming to the Material Plane of Krynn temporarily strips gods of their Divine Rank.
#34 wdarkk Jun 26, 2004 5:36:53	Originally posted by QuentinGeorge Perhaps coming to the Material Plane of Krynn temporarily strips gods of their Divine Rank. Doesn't work that way. Takhisis had a Dragonlance shoved so deep in she should have died but didn't because she was a god. It's in either Winter Night or Spring Dawning. Huma hit her so hard she was being kept alive only by her divine power, and Kaz had to remove the lance.
#35 cam_banks Jun 26, 2004 5:40:32	Originally posted by QuentinGeorge Vincil, being 21st level, would only have maximum of 1 epic feat. Though why he was made 21st level, I don't know. 20th level would have been sufficient, and then you wouldn't have to worry with Epic rules. That's just how the levels assigned to him worked best. We weren't shooting for him to be one of those wizards loaded with epic feats, just an extremely capable wizard. You'll find that several epic-level characters in Dragonlance are not so much characterized by their possession of epic-level feats but by their combination of class levels, which is significant enough. Cheers, Cam
#36 iltharanos Jun 26, 2004 6:40:59	Originally posted by wdarkk A couple things I'm concerned about - Why doesn't Vincil have any Epic feats (since the full Epic rules are now open) and why are there LN Gargoyle barbarians? Easy, the gargoyles are ex-barbarians. As ex-barbarians they retain all the abilities of regular barbarians save for the rage ability.
#37 baron_the_curse Jun 26, 2004 13:07:57	Originally posted by wdarkk A couple things I'm concerned about - Why doesn't Vincil have any Epic feats (since the full Epic rules are now open) and why are there LN Gargoyle barbarians? When you gain 21st Level you may select an Epic Feat or a standard Feat. It's up to you. Epic Feats are not mandatory. The gargoyles are LN because that's what they are. There really is no alignment restriction in 3rd Edition. An Ogre can be a LG Paladin. Unlikely, but possible. As for the Barbarian class? It makes sense since their region is Ergoth. Besides what's the big deal, I can picture those gargoyles really cool when they Rage on unsuspecting invaders.
#38 baron_the_curse Jun 26, 2004 13:09:58	Originally posted by iltharanos Easy, the gargoyles are ex-barbarians. As ex-barbarians they retain all the abilities of regular barbarians save for the rage ability. Damn, I forgot about the lost of Rage. Still, DR comes in handy.
#39 orodruin Jun 27, 2004 9:32:12	So will the book contain rules for handling epic levels (sort of like how AoM had rules for Epic Dragons)? I mean, I for one have no intention to buy the epic level handbook, and would hate to have several epic level characters featured in DL without knowing how to deal with them.
#40 sweetmeats Jun 27, 2004 9:55:10	Basic Epic level rules are in the 3.5 DMG.
#41 orodruin Jun 27, 2004 10:10:22	Except I don't have that either. I already spent good money on the 3rd ed and I figured I could just sort out the differences when they come up. I didn't want to spend £20+ for a rules update.
#42 orodruin Jun 27, 2004 10:25:42	Originally posted by wdarkk Doesn't work that way. Takhisis had a Dragonlance shoved so deep in she should have died but didn't because she was a god. It's in either Winter Night or Spring Dawning. Huma hit her so hard she was being kept alive only by her divine power, and Kaz had to remove the lance. It was in "The Legend of Huma", not Chronicles. And it was established in the "Twins" trilogy that Takhisis (and presumably the other gods as well) was weaker and more vulnerable when she enters Krynn, which is why Raistlin knew he had to lure her out through the portal. He wouldn't have stood a ghost of a chance against her in the Abyss. I also don't think he has to be an unbelievably high level like 40 to work. He could be something on the range of 27th and it would still be plausible. Remember DL doesn't necessarily follow the same rules as D&D and FR wrt how deities function. We don't know how much weaker Takhisis is when she manifests in Krynn, so even a mid 20-30th level Raistlin would manage if he uses his spells correctly. Of course, if he does end up something like 40th level it would still make sense, I just don't think it's necessary to justify his achievements.
#43 sweetmeats Jun 27, 2004 10:30:04	Originally posted by Orodruin Except I don't have that either. I already spent good money on the 3rd ed and I figured I could just sort out the differences when they come up. I didn't want to spend £20+ for a rules update. http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/epicLevels.html Heres the Epic rules from the DMG from the SRD.
#44 wdarkk Jun 27, 2004 14:14:55	Even without divine ranks, a deity is supposed to be 60th character level or so, except for screwy cases like Imenhotep. Not exactly easy. I'm sure Huma's fight is mentioned in chronicles, since I've read that and not Legend of Huma. Also, looking over the Divine SRD provides a hint as to how much weaker she is on the material plane - the material plane is not divinely morphic, so several SDAs don't function as well, and she can't just will the air to turn to iron and entomb him forever.
#45 orodruin Jun 27, 2004 21:36:02	Originally posted by SweetMeats http://www.geocities.com/sovelior/srd/epicLevels.html Heres the Epic rules from the DMG from the SRD. Cool! Thanks a mil!
#46 wdarkk Jun 27, 2004 22:11:41	The FULL Epic SRD is now available here.
#47 orodruin Jun 28, 2004 3:24:46	Originally posted by wdarkk The FULL Epic SRD is now available here. Thanks too!