There is no need to view every marketing initiative of WotC through the eyes of a slighted DragonLance fan.
The fact is that we DO have an "official" DL Wotc hardcover. We continue to receive new DL material from WotC in the form of novels and new gaming material from Sov Press. Marg Weis continue to be involved and that's all to the good.
While the packaging and art is not receiving the top treatment throughout every page, it's not a complete disaster by any means.
DL was born 20 years ago when the standard art of the day in AD&D was somewhere between amateur and good. DL was -in its heyday - the flagship line and it was treated accordingly. The art of Easley and Elmore still inspires us all to this day.
That was then - this is now. Let's try and get past that, ok?
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Perhaps I missed something. Might I inquire as to what brought this on?
One or two grumbles from folks. Storm in a teacup! And now... back to discussing whether the Legion is an Order of High Sorcery or not!
Cheers,
Cam
As stated above, DL is alive and kicking. Eberron is a neat setting too, and I think we can enjoy them both for the qualities that makes each one great.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
One or two grumbles from folks. Storm in a teacup! And now... back to discussing whether the Legion is an Order of High Sorcery or not!
Cheers,
Cam
They most definately are! The White Robes, the Red Robes, the Black Robes, and those other guys who sometimes wear robes! I can't believe you hadn't seen this in the DLCS!!!!
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Perhaps I missed something. Might I inquire as to what brought this on?
Yeah. It was a double post. This was intended (and ultimately got placed in) the DLCS Art thread.
No cookie where I posted it from, had to log in log in - blah blah blah.
My bad.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Personally I feel Eberron is a hack-job, and I’m upset with one of the creators for stating that he understands my nostalgic love for Dragonlance but in the end it is a setting that is being “artificially” kept alive. I’m going to have to find that post to back this up because someone is bound to question my creditability since I did a hell of a job of ******* off that Keith (Hellcow) creator guy. As for the Legion belonging to the Order of High Sorcery at this point in time they’ll take a kender wearing a house robe. They need members!
I'd love to go through that thread Baron, doubtless it will be an entertaining read. Now the truly interesting thing would be if anyone remembered Eberron 20 years from now the way we all wax nostalgic over Dragonlance ...
Is this an inside joke I haven't picked up on yet, kind of like how they joke about dwelfs on the Dark Sun board?Originally posted by Curious about Dark Sun
Legion of Steel part of the Orders of High Sorcery?
It's a joke. Just came up with the discussion on whether or not the LoS are knights.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Personally I feel Eberron is a hack-job, and I’m upset with one of the creators for stating that he understands my nostalgic love for Dragonlance but in the end it is a setting that is being “artificially” kept alive. I’m going to have to find that post to back this up because someone is bound to question my creditability since I did a hell of a job of ******* off that Keith (Hellcow) creator guy. As for the Legion belonging to the Order of High Sorcery at this point in time they’ll take a kender wearing a house robe. They need members!
I dunno. After having gone through the campaign book -- which is typical of anything WotC published including DLCS, plagued with minor editing and errata problem -- they put some thought and effort in continuity to the development of this new world.
Of course, I didn't buy because I already have many D&D settings to like and run, with the exception of Greyhawk. Don't know why I couldn't get into it. But I did remember getting into Forgotten Realms when it first appeared in a weak grey boxed set. And that has become the flagship for 2nd Edition, even though it has been around for 4 years (more if you count those Ed Greenwood's Dragon articles) prior to the 2e debut.
Eberron will be a flagship of 3e, plain and simple. They are more likely to reach new fans, just as FR reached out to me more than 15 years ago.
Damn! How time flies...
Oh, and Baron. Who care what they say? You'll just play what you want to play. It's not like you need WotC for validation.
Originally posted by Ranger REG
Oh, and Baron. Who care what they say? You'll just play what you want to play. It's not like you need WotC for validation.
Well, I apologized for some things I said to Keith and I told him I would buy his game to form an objective opinion. And I did. Keith lashed out at me (I think he apologize as well). And his other creator buddy criticized the job SP is doing with Dragonlance by saying is being kept artificially alive. These guys are Wizard employees now and should adhered to a more professional outlook. This means no bashing a licensed Wizard product.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
And his other creator buddy criticized the job SP is doing with Dragonlance by saying is being kept artificially alive. These guys are Wizard employees now and should adhered to a more professional outlook. This means no bashing a licensed Wizard product.
That's just professional courtesy in general. It's not cool when one is a professional game designer and one bashes another gaming product or company. Often such creators tend to throw stones in a house of glass.
Really, all of this is a matter of opinion. One person can look at Eberron (using the current example) and say it is good for X, Y, and Z. Those same reasons may be what turns another person off of a setting.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/wartornguidelines
Which is just too cool...
Originally posted by Lord Zeb
Eberron novels are coming, in fact any of us interested can submit a proposal to write one of the first Big Eberron Novels!
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/wartornguidelines
Which is just too cool...
Thanks for the link.
Wow, the idea that there may actually be a D&D book that includes a psion. Nifty.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Look, here's the deal. Eberron is their new product, so they're promoting it. DL and every other setting WotC used to do in the TSR days talks about why WotC doesn't promote X setting anymore or support it. It's all product to them, and from a business standpoint, they're supporting current selling products. Simple as that.
As stated above, DL is alive and kicking. Eberron is a neat setting too, and I think we can enjoy them both for the qualities that makes each one great.
Yep.
After reading through the Eberron campaign setting, I’m not ashamed to say I liked a what I saw (sp errors and “how could the editor have missed that,” moments not withstanding). I think that Dragonlance and Eberron will shine in their own way. Just because WOTC is going to push Eberron doesn’t mean all the other D&D settings are doomed to oblivion (yes including something like Spelljammer).
Remember, Dragonlance continues in large part because of it’s fans :invasion:, and fellow fans in higher places
, not a company 
. Plus Sov. Press is helping those fans by working with WOTC, despite the Sovereign stone setting being it’s main line (I can’t name any other 3rd party game publishers doing that for a D&D setting). Of course, there are the novels that continue to be supported by WOTC, and the novels are a critical part of Dragonlance. Dragonlance is not threatened.That said I like both Dragonlance and, so far, Eberron. Besides, play the game worlds you like, no one can force you otherwise.
Originally posted by Dragontooth
Personally if Eberron is the new flagship world for WotC that is fine. But the question is are they going to back up Eberron with novels? Personally I think novel really draws gamers to the game. Now this isn't the case ALL the time i know. I was drawn into Dragonlance thru the Taladas box set, and few months later read "The legend of Huma". But I do think novels tend to bring in the fans.
Oh, they're doing novels, alright. There is even talk about D&D Online MMORPG being based on the Eberron world. (Who is the software developer? Turbine Entertainment under licensed from Atari?)
IOW, they're going all out to push and expose this brand to the greater audience, the same approach TSR did for Dragonlance (although I'm still waiting for a videogame) and Forgotten Realms (although I'm still waiting for a movie, but may NOT be in my lifetime).
I love Dark Sun and Planescape. Both are - for the most part - dead lines. Does this affect my games, the campaigns I have set in those worlds? Nope.
I like Dragonlance, and am happy to see the new 3e books on the shelves. But does the fact that there are other books (Eberon) on the shelves next to them affect my enjoyment? Nope.
Originally posted by Cessna182
I really don't care what is Wizards' main product line.
I love Dark Sun and Planescape. Both are - for the most part - dead lines. Does this affect my games, the campaigns I have set in those worlds? Nope.
I like Dragonlance, and am happy to see the new 3e books on the shelves. But does the fact that there are other books (Eberon) on the shelves next to them affect my enjoyment? Nope.
Well, Dark Sun is coming to 3rd Edition.
I can hardly wait.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Well, Dark Sun is coming to 3rd Edition.
I can hardly wait.
Uhm...Dark Sun is already in 3rd edition. Twice.
First is the version on Athas.org, the official Dark Sun site. Second is the version in recent issues of Dragon and Dungeon.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Uhm...Dark Sun is already in 3rd edition. Twice.
First is the version on Athas.org, the official Dark Sun site. Second is the version in recent issues of Dragon and Dungeon.
Yeah, but I meant an actual hardbound 3.5 edition Dark Sun book is coming out.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Yeah, but I meant an actual hardbound 3.5 edition Dark Sun book is coming out.
Where did you hear this?
To my knowledge, no such product is in the works. If it were, the Dark Sun boards would be talking about it.
It seems to me that Wotc intended Greyhawk to be their adventures despite its utter lameness. After centering all their materials around Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms material blew it all out of the water. I still use planescape materials in some of my campaigns and the fact that it didn't move into 3rd Edition hasn't really swayed me.
But then I only took a glance
