Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jun 25, 2004 6:44:39	well...2 things... I dont know why but its sound a bit odd to me that wizards will get most of their spells form scrolls in DL. I dont know why, but i have this image that wizrads take most of their spells from other spellbooks. Does anyone think that too? or is it just me? There is this really annoying big thingy. Every wizard can enter one of the towers freely, and use the labrary as he wish. the library contains tons of magic scrolls\spellbooks. A wizard can learn tons of spells without the need to pay for it or to work for it (doing a quest or something)!!! What do you think of that?
#2 Mortepierre Jun 25, 2004 6:56:15	Originally posted by stige I dont know why but its sound a bit odd to me that wizards will get most of their spells form scrolls in DL. I dont know why, but i have this image that wizrads take most of their spells from other spellbooks. Does anyone think that too? or is it just me? Well, you have to distinguish spell scroll (a piece of paper with a spell recorded on it, just like a spellbook) and magic scroll (a piece of paper with a pre-cast spell stored on it). Imagine that spell scrolls are loose pages from a spellbook, that's all. Originally posted by stige There is this really annoying big thingy. Every wizard can enter one of the towers freely, and use the labrary as he wish. the library contains tons of magic scrolls\spellbooks. A wizard can learn tons of spells without the need to pay for it or to work for it (doing a quest or something)!!! What do you think of that? Using the library doesn't necessarily means they can abuse it. For one thing, I (as a DM) would restrict that "free use" to tomes dealing with the same type of information you can get from the various Knowledge skills, maybe including books about spell research, but no actual spell formula. For another, methink the Council wouldn't let knowledge of hundreds of spell available to just anybody, especially 1st level WoHS. In my game, any WoHS member who wants a specific spell has to barter with another WoHS who has it. If he gets it for free so much the better but that's not going to happen often!
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 25, 2004 7:07:53	Originally posted by Mortepierre Well, you have to distinguish spell scroll (a piece of paper with a spell recorded on it, just like a spellbook) and magic scroll (a piece of paper with a pre-cast spell stored on it). Imagine that spell scrolls are loose pages from a spellbook, that's all. Make sense, but i need to descreis the amount of gain *spell* scrolls due to that system...anyway its a good idea. thanks. [i] Using the library doesn't necessarily means they can abuse it. For one thing, I (as a DM) would restrict that "free use" to tomes dealing with the same type of information you can get from the various Knowledge skills, maybe including books about spell research, but no actual spell formula. For another, methink the Council wouldn't let knowledge of hundreds of spell available to just anybody, especially 1st level WoHS. ! [/b] It doesnt make sense that tower of high sorcery will not contain spell books for public use. I guess you could say there are only low level book spells for public use (thogh its still a lot of spells) you dont need to worry about 1st level qizards because only a 4th level wizard can take the presitge calss (i think its 4th, but maybe 5th).
#4 sweetmeats Jun 25, 2004 10:04:41	An old friend of mine had the theory that in D&D wizards would hoard the spells they knew, and rarely ever teach them. If you did teach your spells, you might end up on the receiving end of said spell at some point. Even though the Orders are more organised than that, its something to consider.
#5 theredrobedwizard Jun 25, 2004 10:13:34	It still costs money to scribe a scroll into your spellbook, even if you don't have to pay for the spell in the first place. For example, a White Robe goes into the Tower of Wayreth. He goes up to the spell library of too many spells. Sits down with a copy of "Fire Spells and You", casts Read Magic, and begins to peruse the tome. He finds a spell that he wants to copy into his spellbook. Fireball. He first makes the spellcraft check, then pays the materials cost (75gp per page of the spell, minimum one page per spell level) then he spends the hour per spell level copying it down. The Tower Resources ability of the WoHS cuts the cost down to 75 gp from 100 gp. No such thing as "free" spells. -TRRW
#6 Mortepierre Jun 25, 2004 12:21:07	Originally posted by stige you dont need to worry about 1st level qizards because only a 4th level wizard can take the presitge calss (i think its 4th, but maybe 5th). I know. When I said "1st level WoHS", I meant someone having taken 1 level in that PrC ;)
#7 zombiegleemax Jun 25, 2004 14:23:52	Originally posted by TheRedRobedWizard No such thing as "free" spells. -TRRW True. It is a really good way to block low level wizards. But when it comes to a 15th level wizards he can have all the spells he want edivantually... Now that I think about it, I might want to limit the number of spells that the wizard can learn each level.
#8 theredrobedwizard Jun 26, 2004 7:25:03	Now that I think about it, I might want to limit the number of spells that the wizard can learn each level. NO! Do you also limit the number of Martial Weapons a fighter knows how to use? How many spells a cleric knows out of the PHB? Let's look at this from an economics standpoint. The average wizard starts with 75 GP. That's not even enough to copy one spell from another Wizard's spellbook. If someone is doing it wrong, they'd have the wizard pay the cost of a scroll (25gp, I believe) and then spend some time writing it down and they'd know it. That is WRONG. You don't usually have to worry about 1st level wizards knowing every spell imaginable, because they just don't have the money for it. Another way to think about it is this: Even if a Wizard starts with 125 GP, that's barely enough to buy a spellbook, a dagger, a spell component pouch, and to pay the materials cost to copy a spell from another wizard's spellbook. Assuming a 16 Int, that wizard would know seven 1st level spells. Another example: If a Wizard starts at 2nd level according to the "Wealth by Level" chart, he has approximately 900gp. Even if the DM gives him a free SCP and Spellbook, the maximum number of 1st level spells he can have in his spellbook (assuming 16 Int) is 17. That's if he doesn't have to pay for the spells themselves. Realistically, he probably has closer to 13. Is it really that gamebreaking to have a Wizard know 13 1st level spells at 2nd level? I had an idea once where Clerics had spellbooks like Wizards and didn't have any armor proficiency. No one played a Cleric. Where's the fairness in Clerics being better spellcasters, better combatants, better healers, better hit dice, and better at controlling the undead? In short, you're better off requiring Clerics to have spellbooks and no armor proficiencies. -TRRW
#9 sweetmeats Jun 26, 2004 8:48:51	Originally posted by TheRedRobedWizard Is it really that gamebreaking to have a Wizard know 13 1st level spells at 2nd level? I'm in agreement with you here. A wizard can have every spell in the game in his spellbooks but he still needs to pick and choose for memorisation, so it all balances out.