Now it is pretty plain to see where the Solamnics stand for (at least in their idealized version). Their sense of good rests on their sense of having just rulers, who follow a strong legal code. Intertwined with this is piety to the gods of good, and the defense of Solamnia.
The Knights of Nereka are pretty easy to see too. They beleive in order imposed on the weak to keep them in line, all for the greater glory of Takhisis. They beleive in distinguishing themselves in glorious battle, where they leave the rebellious slain on the battlefield.
But what exactly does the Legion of Steel stand for? They fight for justice, but to quote Socrates... what is Justice? More specifically, I want to know what Justice means to them?
They fight against Tyranny, Oppression, and Suffering. However, when does that suffering end? Do they desire the equality of all men and women? Do they take it so far as to demand democracy? Is it enough to merely set up a just ruler who strongly rules a territory, or is having a person as a noble or dictator problematic? Would they support Hogan Bight for example?
We know both the Nerekans and Solamnics approve of, and practice, capital punishment. How about the Legion of Steel? If not, how does this effect their operations where they fight and kill despots?
I beleive I can say with confidence that since the Legion is a product of the 5th Age that is fundamentally a non-religious order. Are they active opponents of the gods? Is membership in a religious order a bar or impediment to advancement within the organization? Or do they simply remain neutral on the subject of religion, letting each member believe what he wants?
I don't have my DLCS in my possession at the moment, but what does it say about the government of the Missing City. It might go a long way to answering a few of these questions.
Rule 1) Be good to people.
Rule 2) Don't be a f
.Rule 3) Make sure those around you are happy and safe.
Rule 4) Respect others.
Rule 5) Stop tyranny and oppression.
So basically, they just want the people of Ansalon to not have to deal with oppressive leaders or any of that crap. They consider everyone equal in the eyes of the gods, though they don't particularly venerate any of them.
They don't actively oppose the gods, unless the worshipers of said god are actively spreading oppression, tyranny, suffering, or baby slaughter.
I think being part of the Holy Order of Stars might impede your climb up the Legion ladder (if there is really one), mostly because of divided loyalty. Same goes for Wizards of High Sorcery.
-TRRW
So basically, they just want the people of Ansalon to not have to deal with oppressive leaders or any of that crap. They consider everyone equal in the eyes of the gods, though they don't particularly venerate any of them.
The Legion of Steel gets a solid writeup in the SAGA supplement Heroes of Steel, where it is clearly described as a knightly organization with its own code of conduct, organization, and goals.
The Legacy is the Legion's moral anchor, handed down by Sara Dunstan before her death. It contains instructions on how the Order's members should act but hasn't been written down, like the Measure of the Solamnic knights or the Code of the knights of Neraka. It has, however, been the subject of many written works since it was instituted.
The most widely accepted version of the Legacy includes six key points:
* Have the Courage to Do Right
* Know Yourself
* Respect Virtue
* Stay Alert
* Everyone Deserves Justice
Because many members of the Legion are former Solamnic knights, and because the Order is modeled in many ways after the Solamnic Orders, their behavior is very often similar. Legionnaires and Solamnic knights often attempt to outdo each other in acts of chivalry and valor. It's important to note that chivalry isn't a tenet of the Solamnic knights, either, rather it is a frequent outcome of adherance to the Measure. This is also true of the Legion.
Individual Legionnaires are free to observe or practice their faith as they choose, so long as it aligns with the Legacy. For that reason, many remain mystics because of the deeper expression of a personal spirituality that mysticism embodies. Others, in the post-War of Souls era, may venerate Kiri-Jolith (for his aspects of justice and valor against evil), Mishakal (for her dedication to the well-being of others) and Branchala (for his celebration of life and community). This is especially true for those few older members who were once Solamnic knights.
The key, significant difference between the two Orders is that the Legion do not stress military rank, rather their emphasis is on personal achievement and reputation. Less experience translates to less influence, which is not always the case with the Solamnic or Nerakan Orders. Despite this, it's also important to understand that the Legion does possess senior officers - a High Elder based in Solace that rules the entire Legion, both its covert cells and its public circles, and three officers called Keepers who assist the High Elder. All four of these officers are appointed by election, just as the Grand Master and High Knights of the Solamnic Orders are. And, much as the Solamnics appoint Warrior Lords in times of war, the High Elder appoints Centurions to take charge of regional situations and conflicts.
All of this information is available in past supplements and used as the basis for the Legion's appearances in novels and fiction. Locations such as Ak-Khurman, the Missing City, and Solace all host a large and public Legion presence, which constitute the most organized opposition during the Age of Mortals to the dragon overlords and their minions. Their presence in the setting is not insignificant, and their status as a military order composed of knights and affiliated agents is fairly clear.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
The Legion of Steel gets a solid writeup in the SAGA supplement Heroes of Steel, where it is clearly described as a knightly organization with its own code of conduct, organization, and goals.
Because many members of the Legion are former Solamnic knights, and because the Order is modeled in many ways after the Solamnic Orders, their behavior is very often similar. Legionnaires and Solamnic knights often attempt to outdo each other in acts of chivalry and valor.
Well, the 5th Age products seemed to be of two minds on the Solamnic Knights and the Legion of Steel. Namely:
1) The Solamnic Knights are "modernizing" by employing more "smart" covert tactics like the Legion.
2) The Solamnic Knights are hopelessly corrupt and are being replaced by the Legion.
So when we have the handover to Sovereign Press, it becomes clear that the Solamnic Knights aren't going anywhere, and a lot of the old lustre is being polished back into their armor. So what does this mean for the Legion of Steel? Can we expect calvary charges and territorial control?
See, if we want the Legion of Steel and the Solamnics to co-exist and fill the same niche in the campaign setting then why not a third knighthood? Or a fourth? Why should I give the Legion of Steel and the Solamnic Knights prominence over Ergothian Cavaliers, Abanasanian Free Rangers, or the Order of the Golden Lance or the Hidden Light? It seems to me that there is no middle ground. Either you give both the Legion of Steel and the Solamnic Knights a unique flavour, or they get lost in the shuffle.
The most widely accepted version of the Legacy includes six key points:
* Have the Courage to Do Right
* Know Yourself
* Respect Virtue
* Stay Alert
* Everyone Deserves Justice
See that's all very well and good, but what does all this vaguely moralistic nonsense mean in practice? I mean, I know we are so individualistic in this day and age that legal and moral codes are passe, but how does this all play out?
What does Courage to do right mean? Are you expected to ready to give your life for others, or are you expected to preserve your own life first and help others when you can? Are you allowed to engage in dishonourable tactics if that is for the greater good?
What does knowing yourself even mean? Does it mean you should be self-aware so you can avoid temptation? Does it mean that you should know your capabilities before you commit to an action?
Now the can of worms "Respect Virtue". I already know I have a much different conception of Virtue than y'all liberal suburbanites. So what constitutes virtue in the eyes of the Legion of Steel? Is it merely the formula of the "greatest good for the greatest number" and "do what you want as long as you don't spook the horses"... or is it based on a set code of ethics?
Again, what is Justice? Is it democracy? Is it a ruler that rules justly?
The key, significant difference between the two Orders is that the Legion do not stress military rank, rather their emphasis is on personal achievement and reputation. Less experience translates to less influence, which is not always the case with the Solamnic or Nerakan Orders.
Yeah, the 5th Age products said this about the Solamnic Knights "revised measure" too. Stupidest thing ever. You have to have a clear chain of command for a military structure to work. Your authority cannot be up for debate.'
I can certainly see the ideal in the Legion of Steel that all members who join start at the lowest rank, and are promoted from there by merit. That makes sense, and is a workable military structure. Of course, the fundamental flaw in this is that there is a reason why we have military colleges and why fresh graduates of those colleges outrank nco's who have been in the field for a decade. That is because education and training are just as, or more, valuable than just straight experience. The Solamnics may have a few incompetant officers who merely have their rank because of their upper class status. However, I imagine that most of them are deserving of their rank because their upper class status also means that they've trained from birth in the arts of warfare.
Despite this, it's also important to understand that the Legion does possess senior officers - a High Elder based in Solace that rules the entire Legion, both its covert cells and its public circles, and three officers called Keepers who assist the High Elder. All four of these officers are appointed by election, just as the Grand Master and High Knights of the Solamnic Orders are. And, much as the Solamnics appoint Warrior Lords in times of war, the High Elder appoints Centurions to take charge of regional situations and conflicts.
Just out of curiousity, how do we elect these four senior officers? In Chronicles it was a big deal that after centuries of exile they were finally able to get enough knights together to elect a new Grandmaster. So how does the Legion of Steel elect these four new leaders when they are a very scattered order, often behind enemy lines?
Anyway, this is definately workable if we can figure that little quibble (perhaps by only having votes in the military bases, and sending the results in by magic). This is also very useful too, because perhaps the Legion of Steel is an organization that espouses democracy as the ideal.
Locations such as Ak-Khurman, the Missing City, and Solace all host a large and public Legion presence, which constitute the most organized opposition during the Age of Mortals to the dragon overlords and their minions. Their presence in the setting is not insignificant, and their status as a military order composed of knights and affiliated agents is fairly clear.
Nobody is disputing that the Legion is a military organization. We're disputing whether it is a "knighthood" with all the baggage that it contains, and how exactly they conduct their operations. I always saw Solace as a training camp, since they don't actually militarily control Abanisania, or have any authority there. The Missing City is where they have both control and authority, but it is just one site. I don't own the "Key of Destiny" so I am not sure of their role in Khur.
But these are just three sites of open military presence. Give me 20 public bases to counteract the 20 covert LoS circles, and I will concede that it is primiarly a public military presence and not a covert one.
If not, I may have to look for that Heroes of Steel on Ebay.
Originally posted by SweetMeats
Are we likely at all to get a sourcebook detailing the three knighthoods at all?
If not, I may have to look for that Heroes of Steel on Ebay.
There's a limit to the number of sourcebooks Sovereign Press can publish each year (I think it's six), but I do recall Jamie suggesting that a sourcebook detailing the Solamnic knights and other military orders was being considered.
Cheers,
Cam
I just think it would be a good book to have, and one which would help settle the "whether the Legion are a knighthood and what do they do?" debates.
Originally posted by SweetMeats
Thats cool. I wasn't proprosing a "I want it NOW!"
I just think it would be a good book to have, and one which would help settle the "whether the Legion are a knighthood and what do they do?" debates.
As I said in another thread, I think the "are they a knighthood?" question is irrelevant - the real question is "are they a military order?" and the answer is, yes.
But I agree, a sourcebook covering the various orders of Krynn would be most helpful in framing campaigns around specific goals and storylines involving knights, their Orders, their associates and their opponents.Cheers,
Cam