Questions for DS DM's - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Questions for DS DM's

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
berwick
Jul 02, 2004 5:33:57 Has anyone out there run the Last Survivors adventure from Dragon yet? I am thinking of running it to flex my DM muscles after an 11 month hiatus.

I am curious to know if any has run it, and if so, do y'all have any tips or suggestions?

And for the record, I am using a hybrid of Dragon's revival, and Athas.org (mainly the ECL, LA, and new psionic classes from Dragon, and the rest will be from Athas.org).

Btw,

Y'all at Athas.org ROCK! YOU RULE!

At any rate, I appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Berwick
#2
Sysane
Jul 02, 2004 8:36:57 If your talking about the adventure from Dungeon, I've run it. Its not bad, but it leaves a lot for the DM to fill in.

You may need to take out most of the metal weapons and magic items due to it going against the grain of DS.

You may need to bulk up the encounters as well. My players mopped the dessert floor with the elves even after tripling the number of them.
#3
dawnstealer
Jul 02, 2004 11:42:00 I actually got around weakness by using tactics on the PCs. To my horror, they nearly all died when I set up two lines of elves to either side of them, hidden behind the dunes. Here's a brief transcript:

Me: "You sneak out into the dunes, your soft leather boots making a soft swishing noise in the still-warm sand. (roll for surprise) From your right, you hear a series of twangs quickly followed by a rain of black arrows."

PC: "I charge up the dune to my right - gonna cut me up some elves."

Me: "Now a you hear it from behind you (the original left of the party), and arrows fly in."

PC: "Okay, I'll charge to my left then."

Me: "From behind you (now the right, again) you hear more twangs and more arrows fly in."

PC: "Huh. Okay, back to the right."

Me: "..."

PC: "What?"

Me: "Are you sure? You're getting shot up pretty bad..."

PC: "They just elves! Yeah - up the dune."

Me: "..."

PC: "What?"

Me: "Are you sure?"

PC: "Um...no?"

The set up? Two lines of elves, one on the right, one on the left. When the PCs would go one direction, the elves would shoot at their underarmored backsides. I think the PCs were assuming they were teleporting or something. Who knows? The thing is, a relatively small group of inexperienced elves nearly killed off my rather experienced PCs.

I've done similar things with Kobolds.
#4
Sysane
Jul 02, 2004 12:08:41 I tried using similar but didn't work to well. I play with some veteran players. Plus, Their were 9 character of 4th level.

The elf zombie fight was pretty intense for them but that damn cleric/wizard kept turning them. Pretty much single handedly saved the party some major grief.

I was so looking forward to lining up some undead flanking sneak attacks.
#5
dawnstealer
Jul 02, 2004 12:09:52 Hmmm... could make psionic zombies - not really zombies, so they can't be turned, but same thought.
#6
berwick
Jul 02, 2004 12:16:02 Did all of you start them of at 4th lvl?

I thought I read that somewhere in the adventure, but now I am not so sure....I have combed the article several times, and have found nothing.

Thanks,
Berwick
#7
Sysane
Jul 02, 2004 12:18:28 I'm pretty much at the point where the DM has to shape rest of the adventure. The players are about to leave the merchant outpost to parlay with the elf chief of the Swiftwing tribe.
#8
Sysane
Jul 02, 2004 12:24:22
Did all of you start them of at 4th lvl?

I had them start at 4th level. The party consisted of the following:

Mul Barbarian/Fighter
Kreen Psi warrior
2 Human Psi warriors
Human Psion telepath
H-Giant Barbarian
Human Ranger/druid
Human Cleric (Fire)/Wizard
Human Wilder

Very large group of power gamers. Tough to dm at times.
#9
dawnstealer
Jul 02, 2004 12:44:57 Big groups are a bit hard to handle. Best bet is the divide and conquer technique. Basically have them in two groups that are doing two different things. Mix up what the groups are from adventure to adventure and don't have separate game sessions (everyone in the same room, just do an hour for each group). Then, at certain times, you can pull them all together and see how they react. Typically, they'll be a bit better organized.

Second option is to do what I call the "Piggy Technique." Get your hands on a feather, sea shell, pencil, or whatever. The only person that can talk is the person with the object.

Third option is to have a group leader - this one worked the best for me. All the players go off to a corner and plot out what they're going to do, then the leader relays it to me. When the leader says something, that's what goes. This rewards players who are both good role-players and those who chose CHA and related social abilities over munchkin.

My group, for about a year, was 15 big. Very difficult to juggle, but we had fun (if SLOW fun).
#10
Sysane
Jul 02, 2004 13:01:15 I don't so much have issues with the group being disruptive or unmanagable just chanllenging them at times.

I under estimate those tricky biznatches.
#11
nytcrawlr
Jul 02, 2004 18:55:58
Originally posted by Berwick
Btw,

Y'all at Athas.org ROCK! YOU RULE!

Don't forget to kiss the ring. Just kidding, heh.

\m/
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 03, 2004 16:01:16 Sort of off topic:

i read some good articles here: http://www.montecook.com/archive_dmonly.html

that give great advice on how to handle large parties. Really saved my campaign.

good luck
#13
zombiegleemax
Jul 04, 2004 0:43:41 My longest running group was 10-12 members. We split the DMing duties with two people. I was far better at narrative and description, while my co-pilot was the rule mongering number cruncher. In NPC interaction, we would often split duties as well, allowing the two of us to portray a larger variety of NPCs at the same time (I was never very good at acting out female NPCs, while Dave could do it without it seeming comical . . . most of the time). Even when crafting adventures, it was often my ideas and Dave's implementation. All in all, it worked for more than 7 years fairly well, with most of that time spent primarily in DS. Of course, you have to be sure that the other DM is as reliable as you intend to be.
#14
zombiegleemax
Jul 10, 2004 11:09:14 Can I borrow some players from you guys?

I hate my group... I'm actually the powergamer in my group so i can squash my PCs MUAHAHAHA.

But yea my group doesn't know how to roleplay. And the worst roleplayer is a biblethumping Paladin...

YOU DON'T GIVE BAD ROLEPLAYERS A PALADIN!

I feel so alone....

At least I have one good player...

How do you find more players? How do you teach players?

#15
zombiegleemax
Jul 10, 2004 15:00:14
How do you find more players? How do you teach players?

Advertise yourself :D

Really, I mean it. There are tons of D&D/RPG message boards that you can post your interest in finding gamers in your general location. The Classified section of the WOTC boards is HERE, and another good one is over at Enworld, found HERE. There's plenty of others too, just search about a bit. Throw up a couple of flyers at your local hobby shops as well. Also, track down the nearest RPGA base in your area (normally found at colleges) and nab up a few people from there. Course, there are not garuantees, but you should be able to find at least a few more people this way by putting forth some effort. Then again, they may in fact be worse than the people your gaming with now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 berwick Jul 02, 2004 5:33:57	Has anyone out there run the Last Survivors adventure from Dragon yet? I am thinking of running it to flex my DM muscles after an 11 month hiatus. I am curious to know if any has run it, and if so, do y'all have any tips or suggestions? And for the record, I am using a hybrid of Dragon's revival, and Athas.org (mainly the ECL, LA, and new psionic classes from Dragon, and the rest will be from Athas.org). Btw, Y'all at Athas.org ROCK! YOU RULE! At any rate, I appreciate your help. Thanks, Berwick
#2 Sysane Jul 02, 2004 8:36:57	If your talking about the adventure from Dungeon, I've run it. Its not bad, but it leaves a lot for the DM to fill in. You may need to take out most of the metal weapons and magic items due to it going against the grain of DS. You may need to bulk up the encounters as well. My players mopped the dessert floor with the elves even after tripling the number of them.
#3 dawnstealer Jul 02, 2004 11:42:00	I actually got around weakness by using tactics on the PCs. To my horror, they nearly all died when I set up two lines of elves to either side of them, hidden behind the dunes. Here's a brief transcript: Me: "You sneak out into the dunes, your soft leather boots making a soft swishing noise in the still-warm sand. (roll for surprise) From your right, you hear a series of twangs quickly followed by a rain of black arrows." PC: "I charge up the dune to my right - gonna cut me up some elves." Me: "Now a you hear it from behind you (the original left of the party), and arrows fly in." PC: "Okay, I'll charge to my left then." Me: "From behind you (now the right, again) you hear more twangs and more arrows fly in." PC: "Huh. Okay, back to the right." Me: "..." PC: "What?" Me: "Are you sure? You're getting shot up pretty bad..." PC: "They just elves! Yeah - up the dune." Me: "..." PC: "What?" Me: "Are you sure?" PC: "Um...no?" The set up? Two lines of elves, one on the right, one on the left. When the PCs would go one direction, the elves would shoot at their underarmored backsides. I think the PCs were assuming they were teleporting or something. Who knows? The thing is, a relatively small group of inexperienced elves nearly killed off my rather experienced PCs. I've done similar things with Kobolds.
#4 Sysane Jul 02, 2004 12:08:41	I tried using similar but didn't work to well. I play with some veteran players. Plus, Their were 9 character of 4th level. The elf zombie fight was pretty intense for them but that damn cleric/wizard kept turning them. Pretty much single handedly saved the party some major grief. I was so looking forward to lining up some undead flanking sneak attacks.
#5 dawnstealer Jul 02, 2004 12:09:52	Hmmm... could make psionic zombies - not really zombies, so they can't be turned, but same thought.
#6 berwick Jul 02, 2004 12:16:02	Did all of you start them of at 4th lvl? I thought I read that somewhere in the adventure, but now I am not so sure....I have combed the article several times, and have found nothing. Thanks, Berwick
#7 Sysane Jul 02, 2004 12:18:28	I'm pretty much at the point where the DM has to shape rest of the adventure. The players are about to leave the merchant outpost to parlay with the elf chief of the Swiftwing tribe.
#8 Sysane Jul 02, 2004 12:24:22	Did all of you start them of at 4th lvl? I had them start at 4th level. The party consisted of the following: Mul Barbarian/Fighter Kreen Psi warrior 2 Human Psi warriors Human Psion telepath H-Giant Barbarian Human Ranger/druid Human Cleric (Fire)/Wizard Human Wilder Very large group of power gamers. Tough to dm at times.
#9 dawnstealer Jul 02, 2004 12:44:57	Big groups are a bit hard to handle. Best bet is the divide and conquer technique. Basically have them in two groups that are doing two different things. Mix up what the groups are from adventure to adventure and don't have separate game sessions (everyone in the same room, just do an hour for each group). Then, at certain times, you can pull them all together and see how they react. Typically, they'll be a bit better organized. Second option is to do what I call the "Piggy Technique." Get your hands on a feather, sea shell, pencil, or whatever. The only person that can talk is the person with the object. Third option is to have a group leader - this one worked the best for me. All the players go off to a corner and plot out what they're going to do, then the leader relays it to me. When the leader says something, that's what goes. This rewards players who are both good role-players and those who chose CHA and related social abilities over munchkin. My group, for about a year, was 15 big. Very difficult to juggle, but we had fun (if SLOW fun).
#10 Sysane Jul 02, 2004 13:01:15	I don't so much have issues with the group being disruptive or unmanagable just chanllenging them at times. I under estimate those tricky biznatches.
#11 nytcrawlr Jul 02, 2004 18:55:58	Originally posted by Berwick Btw, Y'all at Athas.org ROCK! YOU RULE! Don't forget to kiss the ring. Just kidding, heh. \m/
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 03, 2004 16:01:16	Sort of off topic: i read some good articles here: http://www.montecook.com/archive_dmonly.html that give great advice on how to handle large parties. Really saved my campaign. good luck
#13 zombiegleemax Jul 04, 2004 0:43:41	My longest running group was 10-12 members. We split the DMing duties with two people. I was far better at narrative and description, while my co-pilot was the rule mongering number cruncher. In NPC interaction, we would often split duties as well, allowing the two of us to portray a larger variety of NPCs at the same time (I was never very good at acting out female NPCs, while Dave could do it without it seeming comical . . . most of the time). Even when crafting adventures, it was often my ideas and Dave's implementation. All in all, it worked for more than 7 years fairly well, with most of that time spent primarily in DS. Of course, you have to be sure that the other DM is as reliable as you intend to be.
#14 zombiegleemax Jul 10, 2004 11:09:14	Can I borrow some players from you guys? I hate my group... I'm actually the powergamer in my group so i can squash my PCs MUAHAHAHA. But yea my group doesn't know how to roleplay. And the worst roleplayer is a biblethumping Paladin... YOU DON'T GIVE BAD ROLEPLAYERS A PALADIN! I feel so alone.... At least I have one good player... How do you find more players? How do you teach players?
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 10, 2004 15:00:14	How do you find more players? How do you teach players? Advertise yourself :D Really, I mean it. There are tons of D&D/RPG message boards that you can post your interest in finding gamers in your general location. The Classified section of the WOTC boards is HERE, and another good one is over at Enworld, found HERE. There's plenty of others too, just search about a bit. Throw up a couple of flyers at your local hobby shops as well. Also, track down the nearest RPGA base in your area (normally found at colleges) and nab up a few people from there. Course, there are not garuantees, but you should be able to find at least a few more people this way by putting forth some effort. Then again, they may in fact be worse than the people your gaming with now.