Suggestion and insults welcome.
Radius 5ft x spell level
Those in the Defiling radius must make fort save DC 10+spell level or suffer a -1 to attack, skill, and save rolls for 1 rd.
When preformed as a full round action, and depending on the terrain that is being defilied, the spellcasters’ caster level and save modifier may be increased as follows:
Terrain Caster Level Bonus Save Modifier
Desolate 0 0
Barren 0 +1
Infertile +1 +2
Fertile +2 +3
Abundant +3 +4
Preservers who defile must roll a will save vs DC 10+spell level+# of times previously defiled. Failing the save they become defilers. Those the succeeding become tainted. Tainted wizards may seek redemption from a druid. The druid, if willing and able, can cast An Atonement spell on the tainted wizard restoring them to a preserver and removing the taint (resetting the # of times defiled to zero). Wizard loses 100xp per arcane spellcaster level. Defilers can also seek redemption but lose 1000xp per arcane spellcaster level.
One idea, if you want to, is to add the idea of spell level maximums to given terrain. The idea is that in a given terrain there is a maximum castable spell level without defilement, the plant life is just too delicate or scarce for stronger spells. I would have a fairly high bar... probably 5th level for wastelands and up from there, with the exception of the Obsidian Wastes, where only cantrips are possible. The only problem with this is it punishes preservers, so from a game perspective it's like "Be evil... it's easier!"
One thing that I really do not like about athas.org's material is that they have absolutely no feat support for Preservers. Why do Defilers get five metamagic special feats and Preververs nothing? (I'm not counting the "paths" as both sides have something, so it's not a perk for preservers alone.)
I especially dislike "efficient raze". Defilers should NOT get bonuses to draw power more efficiently. The whole paradigm of a defiler is that they're takers, they waste energy indiscriminantly. They've become so numb to their actions they can't empathically sense when plants are in danger of dying. If anyone should have this ability, it should be preservers. They have to learn to make due with less energy in many circumstances, and stretch it out. Fortunately my wizard in the group isn't complaining, he's loading up on still and silent feats so he can live a little longer.
Adamantyr
Originally posted by Adamantyr
One thing that I really do not like about athas.org's material is that they have absolutely no feat support for Preservers. Why do Defilers get five metamagic special feats and Preververs nothing? (I'm not counting the "paths" as both sides have something, so it's not a perk for preservers alone.)
Ohh, dead kank kicking! I simply looooooove it! :D
The reason of this is that preserver=PHB wizard, according to the directions from WotC.
I especially dislike "efficient raze". Defilers should NOT get bonuses to draw power more efficiently. The whole paradigm of a defiler is that they're takers, they waste energy indiscriminantly. They've become so numb to their actions they can't empathically sense when plants are in danger of dying. If anyone should have this ability, it should be preservers. They have to learn to make due with less energy in many circumstances, and stretch it out.
Woww, everybody should come here to see this! Somebody who doesn't want to make defilers even more powerful! :D
Fortunately my wizard in the group isn't complaining, he's loading up on still and silent feats so he can live a little longer.
Adamantyr
Smart fellow...
Ohh, and check out this thread, pure stuff, strong stuff, kicks the **** out of you regarding preserving and defiling. :D
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70770
[EDIT: Watch the language, please - Drake.]
Originally posted by Nagypapi
Woww, everybody should come here to see this! Somebody who doesn't want to make defilers even more powerful! :D
OMG!
:D
Think I'm going to start betting money on how often a new defiling thread will spring up, heh.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
OMG!
:D
Think I'm going to start betting money on how often a new defiling thread will spring up, heh.
That's why I edited my post to re-direct poor lost souls to the only way toward enlightening... :D
Originally posted by Sysane
Mostly based on athas.org system but thought that defiling need a bit more bang for its ceramic.
Suggestion and insults welcome.
Radius 5ft x spell level
Those in the Defiling radius must make fort save DC 10+spell level or suffer a -1 to attack, skill, and save rolls for 1 rd.
When preformed as a full round action, and depending on the terrain that is being defilied, the spellcasters’ caster level and save modifier may be increased as follows:
Terrain Caster Level Bonus Save Modifier
Desolate 0 0
Barren 0 +1
Infertile +1 +2
Fertile +2 +3
Abundant +3 +4
Preservers who defile must roll a will save vs DC 10+spell level+# of times previously defiled. Failing the save they become defilers. Those the succeeding become tainted. Tainted wizards may seek redemption from a druid. The druid, if willing and able, can cast An Atonement spell on the tainted wizard restoring them to a preserver and removing the taint (resetting the # of times defiled to zero). Wizard loses 100xp per arcane spellcaster level. Defilers can also seek redemption but lose 1000xp per arcane spellcaster level.
Those in the Defiling radius must make fort save DC 10+spell level or suffer a -1 to attack, skill, and save rolls for 1 rd.
Not crazy about this. This would seem to be rather time consuming for little payoff. 1) you need to figure out whether everyone is within the radius, 2) figure DC's and make saving throws, and 3) apply new modifiers, which seem to be pretty minimal.
Its not really important to me that the actual defiling has an effect on the pc's. Its enough that the defiler gets some kind of bonus from defiling. The only way i see of affecting the pc's would be using special obsidian orbs; like Nok's Cane and the SK's obsidian orbs.
Otherwise, I like what you have. The chart is hopefully none too cumbersome. I also might add that a permanent defiler takes a -2 penalty to his charisma, either checks or his score, because of the aura that they have.
Take a gander.
Radius 5ft x spell level.
Those in the Defiling radius must make fort save DC10 + ½ spellcaster level + Int Modifier or suffer a -2 to attack, skill, and save rolls for 1 rd.
The terrain the wizard is on at the time of the he casts a spell effects the spells DC as follows:
Terrain Save Modifier
Desolate -2
Barren -1
Infertile 0
Fertile +1
Abundant +2
Wizard’s who chose to defile can extend the casting time of a spell to a full round action (If the spell being cast already has a 1 rd or more casting time it is increased to an additional rd). In doing so they can apply a boost to their spell in the form of a metamagic feat at the moment of the casting. The wizard must have the actual metamagic feat in order to apply the effect through defiling.
Effect Cost Modifier
Silent Spell 2
Still Spell 2
Heighten Spell 2 per spell level
Empower Spell 6
Extent Spell 4
Quicken Spell 8
Maximize Spell 8
Enlarge Spell 4
Recover Spell 2 per spell level (Once per spell level per day)
Cast Spell without paying XP cost 2 per 250 XP
The metamagic effect modifier can not exceed the caster’s spellcasting level. (i.e. A 6th level wizard couldn’t use defiling to cast a maximized fireball because that would exceed his caster level, but a 8th level wizard could).
Preservers who defile must roll a will save vs a DC equal to the spell level + Defiler Benefit Modifier + # of times previously defiled. Failing the save they become defilers and can only cast spells their spells through defiling. Those succeeding become tainted.
Tainted preservers and defilers suffer a –2 penalty to all Charisma-based skill checks.
Tainted wizards may seek redemption from a druid. The druid, if willing and able, can cast an Atonement spell on the tainted wizard restoring them to a preserver and removing the taint (resetting the # of times defiled to zero). Wizard loses 100xp per arcane spellcaster level. Defilers can also seek redemption but lose 1000xp per arcane spellcaster level.
It is quite useless to quicken a spell if you have to increase the casting time...
Not necessary. Especially if there are spells that require a few rds to cast (can't recall any right now).
Plus, I plan on having a feat that brings down defiling from a full rd action to a standard.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
OMG!
:D
Think I'm going to start betting money on how often a new defiling thread will spring up, heh.
This may be an old topic for you guys, but for others it is new. I'm certain we all wish to encourage others to discuss Dark Sun.
If you feel this falls under the area of Frequently Asked Questions, then I would be happy to sticky a FAQ thread if someone from Athas.org would be so kind as to write one up.
--Drake
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
This may be an old topic for you guys, but for others it is new. I'm certain we all wish to encourage others to discuss Dark Sun.
Well, similar topic, but it is slightly different. However, it hadn't interested me much, which is why I haven't responded to it myself.
If you feel this falls under the area of Frequently Asked Questions, then I would be happy to sticky a FAQ thread if someone from Athas.org would be so kind as to write one up.
I believe there was a push for this a few times, but the questions have been hard to quantify, or people simply have lost momentum when trying. In many ways, a F.A.Q. would be nice - as I think it would stem much of the frustrations some of us have had regurgitating the same responses to the same questions. I'm completely in support of a F.A.Q. being drawn up and stickied in the forum.
Need to find the most recent thread on this....
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
If you feel this falls under the area of Frequently Asked Questions, then I would be happy to sticky a FAQ thread if someone from Athas.org would be so kind as to write one up.
Been trying this for months!
/me pokes whoever is in charge of this
If you feel this falls under the area of Frequently Asked Questions, then I would be happy to sticky a FAQ thread if someone from Athas.org would be so kind as to write one up.
Funny thing is guys, I wasn't asking a question about defiling. I was presenting an alternate mechanic for it and wanted constructive feed back
Apparently creativity is frowned upon unless it comes from select sources?
My bad
Originally posted by Sysane
Apparently creativity is frowned upon unless it comes from select sources?
No, it's just this sort of "creativity" has been remerging for months now.
Nothing against you personally, just a little sick of "Here's my variant on Defiling rules vesion 1,000,999,999!"
:D
It's just a dead kank that needs to stay dead IMO. One of the many anyways.
But, we still do need a FAQ.
/me pokes whoever is in charge of this some more
Nothing against you personally, just a little sick of "Here's my variant on Defiling rules vesion 1,000,999,999!"
Yeah, silly me for thinking a commuinty board devoted to Dark Sun was a place to share ideas about game mechanics.
Next time I'll share my views on baseball :D
Agreed. Let's leave this alone until we see what's changed and released by Athas.org. From what I read of Jon's post, they're giving defilers a slight bump in power.
Good thinking. In fact, why don't we all agree to not share any thoughts on DS unless its to comment on athas.org material.
Originally posted by Sysane
Yeah, silly me for thinking a commuinty board devoted to Dark Sun was a place to share ideas about game mechanics.
Try putting yourself in some of our shoes for just one minute and see how much it would annoy you, please? Sheesh.
Next time I'll share my views on baseball :D
Cool! Though I don't like baseball, hehe.
Oh well.
Originally posted by Sysane
Good thinking. In fact, why don't we all agree to not share any thoughts on DS unless its to comment on athas.org material.
More like let's see if they did any of the other thousands of variants on this board and added some of it to the existing rules.
Talk about me having a condescending attitude, sheesh.
Originally posted by Sysane
Good thinking. In fact, why don't we all agree to not share any thoughts on DS unless its to comment on athas.org material.
Sysane, the few people who I know would comment on your defiler mechanics are bored to their ears about the subject. You must be the twentiefth guy to propose a new system, which because it is simple by design, is thus very similar to the other ninetheenth other guy's proposals. And there are those that did not propose a comprehensive mechanic system like you did but just gave their two ceramics on the subject, which look exactly like the two ceramics another guy gave a page before, and those of that other other guy gave 5 pages before, ... not counting the monster threads and discussions from the old board.
People are bored of alternate systems, that's all. Plus they like athas.org's version, or adopt Dragon #315's.
I dont believe you're beeing boycoted by athas.org lovers, its just that the only thing about alternative defiler mechanincs they're not bored talking about is...well, talking about it. Just don't expect a shower of reviews for your mechanics.
Try putting yourself in some of our shoes for just one minute and see how much it would annoy you, please? Sheesh.
If your tired of what you preceive as a dead topic, simply ignore the thread. Its as easy as that. No need to condem someone for something you yourself are now disenchanted with. There are many others who feel this is still a fresh topic to.
Talk about me having a condescending attitude, sheesh.
Thats more sarcastic than condescending
Originally posted by Pennarin
People are bored of alternate systems, that's all. Plus they like athas.org's version, or adopt Dragon #315's.
I think there's room for all these various viewpoints. If there's a thread that has an alternate system and you're bored with it, then don't reply. Just leave the thread for those who wish to comment on the system.
Dark Sun is a setting that has various viewpoints to it. Some like Athas.org's view, some like Paizo's, some like an alternate system altogether.
All these viewpoints should be welcome on these boards.
I dont believe you're beeing boycoted by athas.org lovers, its just that the only thing about alternative defiler mechanincs they're not bored talking about is...well, talking about it. Just don't expect a shower of reviews for your mechanics.
I don't remember begging for a myriad of responses. I also didn't expect to see the resistance to anothers point of view or ideas as I've witnessed here. I don't mean just this thread or just my ideas either. I've seen it in countless other threads.
There are others who use these boards other than the self preceived veterans and would like constructive responses form other like minded fans of DS .
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
I think there's room for all these various viewpoints. If there's a thread that has an alternate system and you're bored with it, then don't reply. Just leave the thread for those who wish to comment on the system.
Since you didn't specify to whom you are adressing yourself (outside of quoting my post) I can only presume that comment is adressed to all who have posted "dead kank" comments, and not just me.
I should have written: «I think people are bored of alternate systems»
I am not "bored with it" as you say. When I said «the few people who I know would comment on your defiler mechanics are bored to their ears about the subject», I did not count myself into them. I do not participate in those threads' main discussions, nor did I on the old board. In this case I took part in a third party discussion, I think those are called meta discussions?, in which we comment upon the comments, and not on the main subject of the thread.
In this case I saw a potentially explosive situation and tried to deflate the situation by giving my assessment of the situation. This assessment is personnal and does not apply to all: for example, newbs on this board will not get a madening sense of déjà vû when asked to review a given system, so posting a new system will still garner a few answers. It just will never be the same (IMO) as when the initial athas.org document was playtested on the old board. The time as come and passed for many. Newer people should come forward and comment on these new systems, instead of leaving the thread wide open for old dinosaurs :D like Xlor and Nyt to say that they were there at the beggining of the world and have seen it all.
Originally posted by Pennarin
Since you didn't specify to whom you are adressing yourself (outside of quoting my post) I can only presume that comment is adressed to all who have posted "dead kank" comments, and not just me.
Nothing directed at you, my man. I was just making a point in general.
Even if someone is proposing something that us 'old timers' feel has long since been beaten to death, there's no reason why some newer people can't talk about it. Toss out a reminder to do a search for other threads not as a way to act condescending and arrogant, but simply as a way to give them a push towards a few more resources that could help them. Especially when your talking about defiling. Let's face it, even alot of the people that claim that they like Athas.org's system will still say that they are not 100% pleased with the rules for defiling. Simple as that. And if someone doesn't like it, well then you should dang well expect them to change it. Its really not that hard to come to that very simple conclusion. I for one understand exactly how much time and effort have gone into the DS 3E project, but if the system has a point or two that are weak spots, then stop bashing people for trying to fix it up (even if you yourselves don't think it needs fixing).
Sysane, the few people who I know would comment on your defiler mechanics are bored to their ears about the subject
Umm, you know who I am (well, at least I think by now you do) and I'm about to comment on it (wait for it, its comming).
Nothing against you personally, just a little sick of "Here's my variant on Defiling rules vesion 1,000,999,999!
I am too. But you know what else I'm sick of? The fact that I still read each and every one of them hoping that someone finally nails it. As it stands right now, I still have not read or come up with on my own a system that I am happy with. Until someone does just that, I'm going to hope that people still kick the kank till its chitinous shell is ground into a fine powder from countless boots. No offense meant Nyt, but you have found what works for you in your game as far as defiling is concerned (or at least from what I gather you have). I still haven't. And apparently, the same can be said of enough others that this kank ain't going down that easily.
People are bored of alternate systems, that's all.
If your bored of it, then why are you posting about how bored you are of it? Now that's boring. Obviously its not so boring to you to open the thread and take the time to read through it all.
Come on! Show a little empathy and maturity people! I'm so sick of seeing more shooting contests about some of these topics than helpful advice. It just churns my frickin stomache. If your that sick of these topics, then IGNORE them. Don't open the thread. Don't even reply if you should accidentaly click the topic! Its really that easy! Its not like its a conversation between people right next to you that you can't ignore or get away from. Its a text thread that YOU chose to read. As sure as I am that I'm alive, I'm also just as sure that no one at all forced you to open the thread, read the 'same boring thing', then post everything under the sun EXCEPT something constructive. Next time, opt for reading something more interesting to read like Greg Bear or Carl Sagan instead of dead kank threads.
To those who bring up what are considered dead kank topics, then you should darn well be doing a few searches first and foremost before posting questions about something to see if its already been answered once, sometimes twice (or thirty or fourty times in some cases). Maybe your question hasn't been answered. Maybe it has. But if you ask something
Now that that's off my chest (and now that I've hopefully offended both sides of the discussion
, on to the topic at hand. Your defilers (as presented in the second version), seem a bit beefed up with a pretty lame drawback of being tainted (while a cha penalty is realistic, its also not much of a drawback, is it?) This is fine if your not trying to counterbalance the aspects of defiling. If you are in favor of balance though, I'd suggest tossing out more than a cha penalty. Also, the way you have it written, a preserver who defiles once every a year, over the course of 20 years, and a preserver who defiles 20 times in the same day both have the same chance to become a permanent defiler; and EVERY preserver who has ever defiled, even once, is automatically tainted?. Just doesn't seem to sit too well in some way with me. Then again, I'm also not real sure how to correct this.
Originally posted by Sysane
If your tired of what you preceive as a dead topic, simply ignore the thread. Its as easy as that. No need to condem someone for something you yourself are now disenchanted with. There are many others who feel this is still a fresh topic to.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time to create the threads I want, though that may be changing soon, and there aren't any other threads that aren't interesting me at this time, not that they aren't good topics. This one however is just too dead...
However, I'll bite. What about the athas.org system do you not like in order to make a change?
Have you tried what Noonan has done, or combined the two (which is my plan)?
Originally posted by Pennarin
The time as come and passed for many. Newer people should come forward and comment on these new systems, instead of leaving the thread wide open for old dinosaurs :D like Xlor and Nyt to say that they were there at the beggining of the world and have seen it all.
Where's my cane?! I'll beat the lot of ya off, I swear it!
Kidding of course.
Your defilers (as presented in the second version), seem a bit beefed up with a pretty lame drawback of being tainted (while a cha penalty is realistic, its also not much of a drawback, is it?) This is fine if your not trying to counterbalance the aspects of defiling. If you are in favor of balance though, I'd suggest tossing out more than a cha penalty. Also, the way you have it written, a preserver who defiles once every a year, over the course of 20 years, and a preserver who defiles 20 times in the same day both have the same chance to become a permanent defiler; and EVERY preserver who has ever defiled, even once, is automatically tainted?. Just doesn't seem to sit too well in some way with me. Then again, I'm also not real sure how to correct this.
Well the way I view it, is that a player should not be trying to aspiring to become a defiler. Its a matter of ethics. A paladin doesn't look to become a blackguard it just happens for the most part. Defiling should be there as a temptation for the characters and shouldn't have major draw otherwise no one would bother to defile. When a truly good preserver defiles they should want to repent for the deed as soon as posible. Waiting 20 yrs in your example should eat away at the wizard they should be sitting on their duff waiting to atone.
Thanks for the constructive reply :D
Originally posted by Mach2.5
No offense meant Nyt, but you have found what works for you in your game as far as defiling is concerned (or at least from what I gather you have). I still haven't. And apparently, the same can be said of enough others that this kank ain't going down that easily.
It's all good.
"I love you man!" "You're not getting my budlight."
Just frustrated that I'm not seeing stuff that I want to see on the boards and too busy to write something out meaningful to post, bleah.
That, and I can't stay away from this place, hehe.
Have you tried what Noonan has done, or combined the two (which is my plan)?
Actually yes I have. Try reading several posts
that way and you'll see my version of the two combined.Originally posted by NytCrawlr
That, and I can't stay away from this place, hehe.
The addiction, you see...
Very sad. Happens more and more often, especially with our oldest members...
Ho, and "I love you too Mach!" "Here, take one of Nyt's Buds, its on me!"
Terrain Caster Level Bonus Save Modifier
Desolate 0 0
Barren 0 +1
Infertile +1 +2
Fertile +2 +3
Abundant +3 +4
That is a good addition, I like that.
It makes the defiler more powerful than a preserver, but not in any static, one shot "add this and that modifier" method, but rather in a scalable fashion.
Cool.
Originally posted by Sysane
Actually yes I have. Try reading several posts
Well, to be honest, it really looks like something Shei-nad had already added on to with the two existing systems, could be wrong though.
Try searching for posts Shei-nad has done on this subject if you are interested.
I'll try and do a quick search here in a bit and see if I can find it.
Originally posted by Pennarin
In this case I saw a potentially explosive situation and tried to deflate the situation by giving my assessment of the situation. This assessment is personnal and does not apply to all: for example, newbs on this board will not get a madening sense of déjà vû when asked to review a given system, so posting a new system will still garner a few answers. It just will never be the same (IMO) as when the initial athas.org document was playtested on the old board. The time as come and passed for many. Newer people should come forward and comment on these new systems, instead of leaving the thread wide open for old dinosaurs :D like Xlor and Nyt to say that they were there at the beggining of the world and have seen it all.
I am Jack's total lack of interest on commenting on this topic.
Kidding of course.
Like hell you are. You just thrash em with your cane over in my direction and I'll try and nail em with my walker. And may the gawds help em if I get my electric wheelchair anytime soon . . . oh, and I don't drink beer, or wine either. Everything else is fair game though ;) And I ahh, love you guys too. You know, in a plutonic sorta way. Yeah, like that.
The addiction, you see...
I get withdraws. Serious ones. I'm just a loser junky. I call off work if I haven't checked in. I was in rehab, but it didn't work out. They didn't have any computers there.
Sysane, I like your shot at combining the athas.org and the Noonan rules. I think I would stay with the terrain mods from athas.org and use Noonan's taint system but incorporate Shei-Nad's modifications. Your angle that all of the defiling benefits only come with the full-round action is nice as well - neatly ties the two concepts together.
Do you also envisage using athas.org's defiler feats with this? It also seems to me like the arch-defiler prcl would overlap poorly with these alternate rules. I haven't had any defiler PCs in my new game - just short-lived opponents, heh, so I have limited playtesting with them. Have you run this system in-game at all?
Despite the apparent dead kankery of it all, I think we should nevertheless encourage all of this kind of discussion. Sysane's ideas are simple and neat and for those interested in combining the website and magazine systems they are a definite step in the right direction. Without this thread we would never have seen them - just another missed opportunity.
Well, to be honest, it really looks like something Shei-nad had already added on to with the two existing systems, could be wrong though.
I see that Shei-nad metioned that you should have the metamagic feat in order to use the defiling equivilant, but other than that I see no other similarities.
Do you also envisage using athas.org's defiler feats with this? It also seems to me like the arch-defiler prcl would overlap poorly with these alternate rules. I haven't had any defiler PCs in my new game - just short-lived opponents, heh, so I have limited playtesting with them. Have you run this system in-game at all?
I don't plan on using athas.orgs feats or the arch-defiler PrC in my campaign I should be good. I haven't run this version of defiling yet. Its going to pretty much be used by NPC adversaries. I also wanted it to be a option for a preserver to defile be tempted by its power when in tight spots.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
If your bored of it, then why are you posting about how bored you are of it? Now that's boring. Obviously its not so boring to you to open the thread and take the time to read through it all.
Come on! Show a little empathy and maturity people! I'm so sick of seeing more shooting contests about some of these topics than helpful advice. It just churns my frickin stomache. If your that sick of these topics, then IGNORE them. Don't open the thread. Don't even reply if you should accidentaly click the topic! Its really that easy! Its not like its a conversation between people right next to you that you can't ignore or get away from. Its a text thread that YOU chose to read. As sure as I am that I'm alive, I'm also just as sure that no one at all forced you to open the thread, read the 'same boring thing', then post everything under the sun EXCEPT something constructive.
Thank you, Mach! I would confess that I didn't offer as much constructive feedback as I should have in my first post on the thread, and used it more to complain about an existing system. So I'll rectify that by offering some better feedback:
I think it's important, in the case of any new rules system, to consider the context in which you're establishing it. Are you a fan of the 2nd edition rules system version of defiling? Did you play 2nd edition and use that system with good success? If so, you should use a system that replicates those mechanics in 3.5.
On the other hand, you may have just read the Prism Pentad again, and you want a more narrative feel to it. A choice between survival and ethics. Guilt and redemption. In such cases, a straight-laced rules system may not be what you want, you want something more fitting. For example, a desperate preserver who defiles for the first time should completely obliterate his enemies. The shock and awe at the incredible power he has, if only he throws away this silly idea of "preserving"...
Or, you may be a DM, and you want a workable system that you can use to generate NPC defilers quickly and easily, with quantifiable power levels.
As for what I'll be doing in my campaign, I'm not sure yet. No defilers have entered the game as yet, either as PC's or NPC's. I'll probably combine elements from both athas.org's version and Dragon #315. I don't agree with the idea that "defilers are always stronger", I think defilers should be powerful because they chose the quick and easy path to power, but that in the end it doesn't pay off. (Unless you become a dragon, of course.)
Adamantyr
Originally posted by Sysane
Well the way I view it, is that a player should not be trying to aspiring to become a defiler.
Why not? If the player wants to play such character...
Its a matter of ethics.
Yes, but one of the finest part of an RPG is that you can play anything you want. And it's good to be bad sometimes... If you write rules it has to cover every possible aspects of the story.
Why not? If the player wants to play such character...
The same reason I wouldn't let the play a blackgaurd or a vampire. Defilier isn't a "good guy" class. I try not to push the players to be evil in my campaigns.
Yes, but one of the finest part of an RPG is that you can play anything you want. And it's good to be bad sometimes... If you write rules it has to cover every possible aspects of the story.
Partly true, and I have it that players can defile even if are they are preservers. However I wouldn't want them to defile every chance they get. I just want it there to tempt them.
Why not? If the player wants to play such character...
The same reason I wouldn't let the play a blackgaurd or a vampire. Defilier isn't a "good guy" class. I try not to push the players to be evil in my campaigns.
Yes, but one of the finest part of an RPG is that you can play anything you want. And it's good to be bad sometimes... If you write rules it has to cover every possible aspects of the story.
Partly true, and I have it that players can defile even if are they are preservers. However I wouldn't want them to defile every chance they get. I just want it there to tempt them.
Originally posted by Sysane
The same reason I wouldn't let the play a blackgaurd or a vampire. Defilier isn't a "good guy" class. I try not to push the players to be evil in my campaigns.
I think DS is different form the standard D&D worlds that it allows the players to play neutral or evil characters more easily. That is one of the uniqueness of the setting. I don't like the more heroic feeling created in the 2nd DS box, it killed a lot of flavour IMHO. I keep the feeling from the 1st DS box, where the world is harsh and it is harsh for evil characters as well!! And many times being good is a sure way to death. But it's just my personal taste.
I agree that pushing the players in any direction is usually a bad idea.
Partly true, and I have it that players can defile even if are they are preservers. However I wouldn't want them to defile every chance they get. I just want it there to tempt them.
And what if they falling to the temptation?
And what if they falling to the temptation?
Hopefully they will seek redemption. Otherwise they may find how truly unforgiving Athas is