campaign set in early 600's CY - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

campaign set in early 600's CY

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
mordo
Jul 05, 2004 6:23:22 My next campaign is to be set in the early 600's CY, and I'm looking for for any idea of geo-political developpement that might occur in the Flanaess from 591 CY. I've started looking on LG sites and Canonfire but I also want other ideas from DMs running campaign as much as how everyone see the future of Oerth.

As for myself, I though about seeing Tenh fall to Pale, Geoff been absorb by Keoland as they helped much to reconquered the land, maybe having the Lordship of the Isles kicking off SB and joining the Iron League. Also I want to get rid of Iuz or at least reduce him to a minor vilain for some time. I thought about having Keoland going back to expansionism and having Pomarj a real menace.

So how do you see the future of Greyhawk?
#2
Mortepierre
Jul 05, 2004 6:47:35 The way events have been progressing (or been hinted at) in the LG journals, I think the following scenarios are likely:

1) The Pale takes formal control of the south-eastern part of Tenh, if not of the north-eastern part of Nyrond (the latter will probably lead to a war as Lynwerd is against the idea)

2) Keoland renews with its imperial past and tries to expand its borders (probably in Geoff and the Hold of the Sea Princes)

3) Iuz's influence in the former Bandit Kingdoms collapses

4) The Horned Society makes a come-back

5) Lordship of the Isles is invaded (probably by the Sea Barons with some help from Rel Astra)

6) Hardby tries to cut all links to Greyhawk

7) Rary manages to undo the curse that transformed Sulm into the Bright Desert

8) Ahlissa builds a fleet large enough to finally give the SB fleet a run for their money

9) Bissel and Ket go to war once again

10) Ratik falls to the Northern Kingdom

But that's just me ;)
#3
mortellan
Jul 05, 2004 11:18:34 Interesting list. Alot can happen in 10 game years. I particularly like the return of the Horned Society one. And the Bright Desert curse removed? I wonder how long that would take to repair.
#4
Mortepierre
Jul 05, 2004 12:06:54
Originally posted by mortellan
Interesting list. Alot can happen in 10 game years. I particularly like the return of the Horned Society one. And the Bright Desert curse removed? I wonder how long that would take to repair.

Thank you. I just put in the list of events I have in store for my own campaign ;)

As for the Bright Desert, I don't think it would take long. The way I see it, given its geographic location, the Bright Desert should receive decent rain every year and the proximity of the sea would give it a mild climate. Certainly plenty of wind to carry in seeds from lush neighboring countries.

Assuming Rary breaks the curse that maintains the area in its desert-like condition (I am guessing it also tampers with the local weather), life should get better within a hundred years.

If one has access to powerful magic like Rary does, it would be possible to reduce the wait. Of course, the assistance of a few druids wouldn't hurt...
#5
samwise
Jul 05, 2004 12:31:26 How far into the early 600s?

For the Sheldomar, Keoland should reincorporate one of the surrounding states every 1-3 years, starting with Geoff and proceeding through the Gran March, Sterich, and the Principality of Ulek.
Following that, armies would drive into both the Pomarj and the Hold of the Sea Princes to liberate those nations from the armies currently occupying them. Along the way, both the Duchy of Ulek and the Yeomanry will be brought back into the fold. (The Duchy by seeing the Kingdom again has the internal strength as well as the active support of the Principality of Ulek, the Yeomanry on realizing that a united Kingdom means a single market for their troops, and they can either join or starve.) Each campaign would last 3-5 years.
After that Keoland will have to negotiate borders on the Wild Coast with Greyhawk and Celene. As well, an agreement with Furyondy and Veluna regarding Bissel will have to be reached, with Keoland looking to liberate Thornward, and reincorporate all of Bissel into the Empire.
At that point they will turn south to the Amedio Jungle, avoiding becoming entangled with the struggle against Iuz, as well as rejecting an endless war with Ket. To gain the Amedio, they will have to fight the Scarlet Brotherhood, and a long term naval campaign will be initiated to bring down that group, likely leading to a close alliance with Onnwal and Irongate.
#6
mordo
Jul 06, 2004 2:00:34 I was thinking about something between CY 599 to CY 604 so there would have been some evolution between the actual conflict (CY 591) but not to much so the player might take position in favor or against rising nation.

I really like the return of the horned society idea, but I'll have to get some info on them since I'm quite new to GH.

The same goes for the Bright Desert, so if someone can point me where to get good ressources on both the Horned society and Bright desert...

Also I just read the LG article "Realm of Dust" and it inspire me into having the Tenh fall to Pale where the Faithful Flan ruled the land but the "loyalist" leading a guerilla to take back the land for the Duke, and maybe having the Duke leading himself the guerilla...
#7
Mortepierre
Jul 06, 2004 2:07:39 There you go, as per Jason Z. index (thanks man! what would we do without you)

Horned Society (Horned Ones)(Horned Lands)[KNG][ORG]
AOE - 7,91,95,138,141,145,194,232,234
CED - 38
COG:C# - 18
COG:FFF - 3,6,7,8,21,28,43,44,48,49,57-59,70,73
COG:GOTF - 18
DRG#52 - 20
DRG#55 - 19
DRG#56 - 18,19,20,21,22,23
DRG#253 - 44
DRG#256 - 49
DRG#262 - 38
DRG#263 - 51
DUN#32 - 61,62,63,65,67,71
DUN#53 - 35
FTAA - 6,22,27,29,37
FTAR#1
FTAR#2
FTAR#9
FTAR#11
GA - 39,42,49,50,77,81,82,97
GW:ADV - 3,4,9,10,11,14,20,25,30,31,32
HART - 2,3,14,37,40,43,45,46,47,48
LGG - 15,25,30,31,45,47,51,54,58,59,61,62,95,102,104,140
152,156,157,159,182,IBC
LGJ#0 - 4,6,12
LGJ#1 - 24
LGJ#3 - 30
PGTG - 6,10
SOD - 14
SOOC - 6,151,160,163,237
T1-4 - 29
TAB - 3,17,19,23,60-62,91,108,116
TOH - 3
WG8 - 21,69,86,127
WG12 - 5
WGG - IC,2,5,7,10,11,14,15,21
WGM1 - IBC,2,8,12,15,20,28
WGR4 - 3,20,23,26,39
WGR5 - 1,4,5,19,25,35-48,53,55,56,57,61,67,75,78,80,83
84,88,95
WGR6 - 17,18
WOGA - 9,12,22,26,33,34,48,55,59,80,IBC
WOGG - 8,10,17,32

Bright Desert [PLC]
C2 - 2
COG:C# - 8,9
COG:GOTF - 19
DRG#57 - 13
DRG#191 - 68
DRG#209 - 11
DRG#249 - 90,91,94
DRG#290 - 98
DRG#293 - 90
DRG#299 - 99
DUN#30 - 22,23,24,25,27,28
FTAA - 9,10,61
FTAC - 11,13,31,32,37,85
FTAR#14
GA - 22,74,80,91,92
GW:ADV - 17,24
JAM - 12
LGG - 13,16,17,38,51,125,126,143,144,154,157
LGJ#0 - 7
LGJ#3 - 13,15,26
LGJ#4 - 1,23
LOG - 71
PGTG - 9,11,23,51
RTO8 - 59
S1 - 2
SLV - 2,7,37,38,43,45,60
SOOC - 6,288
TAB - 4,6,37,48,49,51,55,97
TAB:AM - 2,4,5,13
TSC - IC,2,4,13,38
WG5 - 24
WGA4 - 6
WGG - 20,21
WGR3 - 2,4,7,8,10,12-17,21,23,27,30-33,60,62,63
WGR4 - 35
WGR5 - 5,37
WOGA - 48,60
WOGG - 15
#8
mordo
Jul 06, 2004 2:14:52 thank you very much Mortepierre, now I just have to check my bank account and buy the .pdf :D
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 06, 2004 3:26:17 I think I covered my thoughts on this on another thread, but this is always a fun thing to think about.

So here’s my thoughts for what they’re worth.

1: Ahlissa Rising:
Ahlissa will make a serious comeback as the economic powerhouse of the eastern Flanaess, similtaneously expanding its commercial and maritime reach esp. in the Azure and Aerdi Seas. Xavener will try to avoid war with the North Kingdom like the plague, though will try to secure alliances with neighbors like Nyrond to call in when the inevitable happens perhaps 10 years from present (594 CY). In the Azure Sea, Ahlissa will seek alliances with Irongate, Onnwal and Keoland to break the Scarlet Brotherhood stranglehold of the Azure Sea (an Azure League?).

2: Return to the Shadows:
The Scarlet Brotherhood, faced with the backlash to its policy of open war during the Greyhawk Wars, in the form of resurgent Keoish and Ahlissan naval ambitions, will have to return to its previous and very successful policy of pulling strings behind the scenes. They will work to deflect any major naval campaigns in the Azure and in so doing protect the homelands of Shar (which was the goal of the SB acquisitions during the Wars in the first place).

3: The Horde of the Isles:
I don’t see the Lords of the Isles either shrugging off the SB or falling foul of the Sea Barons. At the moment they have an almost complete monopoly of the trade in spices from the Amedio and Hepmonaland to the few ports in the Flanaess that allow them to dock (Nyrond’s ports, Gryrax and, IIRC, Hardby and Greyhawk City). That wealth, properly invested in fleet building, should ensure that they will maintain their monopoly against challenges from the Solnor Compact and the Sea Barons in the east, and Ahlissa, Keoland and the Iron League states in the west. As the Lords have this monopoly largely thanks to the good will of the SB, I don’t see them getting any notions of independence soon (bar some idealistic Oeridian lords here and there or if the SB starts to look like a loser).

4: On the Edge of Discovery:
The Solnor Compact and Sea Barons will seek to find ways of circumventing the stanglehold that the SB/LoI and Ahlissa hold on their trade with the west. This will mean voyages of exploration down the East Coast of Hepmonaland (contacts with the Olman and Touv kingdoms) and across the Solnor to Fireland and the Far West of Oerik. Being far more organised and determined in terms of trade and colonisation than the Rhizian barbarians, you can see settlements and outposts being set up in these regions. Their efforts will be rather like those of Spain and Portugal in the early years of the Age of Exploration, when those states were shut out of the silk and spice trade with India and China. They may not be able to ultimately compete with the might of Ahlissa, should Xavener and the Royal Guild of Merchants of Aerdy (the Flanaess’ equivalent of the East India Company?) ever take an interest in overseas empire (just as Spain and Portugal lost out to the Dutch, British and French). However, the 600’s should see them taking advantage of their lead in tech and lore to gain sufficent wealth to remain independent of the big powers of old Aerdy.

Also on this subject – we already know that the Scarlet Brotherhood has made contact with realms on the other shores of the Pearl Sea (most likely “Zindia” and “Nippon” as the Dragon Annual 1 called them). It’s likely that if the Keoish, Rel Astrans, Ahlissans or others push south, they’ll make contact also – leading to a whole new set of relations between the Flanaess and the rest of Oerik. This doesn't of course - just have to be Flanaess states going and conquering empires and colonies. There's nothing to stop a powerful state sending fleets and forces to carve out chunks of the Flanaess for itself perhaps...
Colonization can be a two way street.

Equally – states west of Zeif, including the “Celestial Empire” (some sort of vast, vaguely Oriental empire) will become more well known to the inhabitants of the Flanaess either through trade or from the distant repercussions of events in those lands.

5: Beyond the Pale:
Whether or not you like your Tenh Ethered or unEthered, it’s pretty much a dead cert that the Pale will try to overrun that country. It’s also certain that the Tenhas will fight them tooth and nail for possession of their homeland. Luckily this should take the pressure off Lynwerd in the northlands of Nyrond. As Nyrond recovers under Lynwerd's adriot stweardship, prospects of Lesser Nyrond should recede. Still – while Swedernt remains at large and Lynwerd remains without issue, the whole political picture in Nyrond could change with one dagger blow.

6: The Future’s Bright?
What will Rary do? Who knows… :D
though it’s fairly safe to say he’s not going to be stupid enough to put on the Scorpion Crown and repeat Shattados’ Folly.

If Keoland succeeds in removing the Pomarj as a threat to the central Flanaess, then Greyhawk no longer has its boogyman to frighten the cities of the Wild Coast into line. So it's likely, Hardby will make moves to rid itself of Greyhawk’s influence (possibly followed by Narwal and Safeton). As a lot of factions have an interest in seeing Greyhawk humbled, this could end up being very, very messy indeed. It could lead to various foreign powers trying to gain influence over the governance of the Free City itself, to control via puppets (easier than marching in and making yourself a target for everyone else to shoot at) the biggest bazaar and road nexus in the Central Flanaess.

It’s likely that Countess Bellissica will live out her years in the Glorianna style of Elizabeth I. What this means for the rulership of the County of Urnst is unclear. It's certain that the Lorinar Dukes of Urnst will make a play to reunite the two states, probably resisted by the Gellors and other County nobles. It’s very unlikely this will ever be more than a bit of diplomatic intrigue, though hostile parties (such as the SB) might use the struggle to their advantage.

7: Furyondy in turmoil
Another state with succession troubles is Furyondy. Belvor won’t live forever and it’s unlikely that a vampiric Thrommel will be accepted for long by the Great Houses of Furyondy. Furyondy is therefore in for a bout of political infighting among the noble houses to put their man on the throne. This is of course great news for Iuz, who can take his eye off that particular ball for a while and get busy becoming a full god. It’s also good for the SB, who, having taken the trouble to eliminate Thrommel in the first place, must have some long term plan in place to exploit events after Belvor’s death.

8: Iuz at Bay:
Iuz has got to have some sort of slick move up his sleeve to explain why he’s letting his empire apprently be nibbled away around him. My bet it has something to do with an extraplanar power play and an attempt to become a full god. Any power plays may involve Iggwilv (perhaps left as his regent on Oerth while he goes and sorts stuff out on the Planes?), Gra’zzt and Pazeral (who both having shown interest in the Oerth are unlikely to have wandered off to do other things just because Hazen waved the Crook of Rao about a bit).
In the short term, if Iuz does wander off to the planes, it may appear to those on the Oerth that he’s vanished or been defeated. In the meantime the Horned Society will continue to exploit his apparent weakness and spread their tentacles across the Flanaess. His empire may continue to contract, until of course he comes back in X years to remind everyone of why their grandsires feared Iuz the Old.
Obviously if Iuz ever becomes a full god, then that’s big trouble for the Flanaess if not the entire Oerth. This could even be the cause of the Great War presaged by Sargent in Ivid the Undying – which IMO may lead to the Fading of Magic seen in Pluffet Smedger’s time (998 CY). If in the meantime, the Flanaess extends contacts to other states in other parts of Oerik and elsewhere, this might be Oerth's first World War.

9: Incabulos Incubating:
Incabulos is pretty much the only Major evil god who’s been doing precisely nothing in the past 20 years. Nothing obvious, of course. Like Iuz, he’s gotta have some sort of play in the making. Something big – like perhaps a nice big plague to remind everyone who he is. All those ships returning from foreign parts with strange germs are just too tempting to pass up…

All IMO of course...

P.
#10
grodog
Jul 06, 2004 21:24:53 I have always been very fond of Montand's "The Future of Greyhawk" post to Greytalk on 12 October 2001:

http://www.greycitadel.com/greycitadel/greytalk.nsf/dceb214b2cd0ea47852567da006e1d91/ab599b3d88144efd85256ae300378b3a?OpenDocument

You might also want to check out the discussion about NightWatch in the closed novels thread, since it's set in the future of GH as well.
#11
Mortepierre
Jul 07, 2004 1:05:15
Originally posted by grodog
I have always been very fond of Montand's "The Future of Greyhawk" post to Greytalk on 12 October 2001:

http://www.greycitadel.com/greycitadel/greytalk.nsf/dceb214b2cd0ea47852567da006e1d91/ab599b3d88144efd85256ae300378b3a?OpenDocument

Intriguing..

I do admit that the kind of events he describes are possible. The one thing that doesn't settle well with me is that nations of Good that were hit hard during the Greyhawk Wars are hit even harder now. By the time this is over, the world we get is moving closer and closer to the Midnight setting (from Fantasy Flight Games).

While a grim world ruled by Evil and intolerance can certainly foster heroes worthy of legend, I continue to believe that it's too extreme for GH.
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 7:05:05 Who can answer to this question ?
Long time ago Suel and Baklunish collapsed.
A new suel order came in the Sheldomar Valley but collapsed.
An Empire came as the Great Kingdom of the oeridian and collapsed.
Iuz built his empire and collapsed.

Whom turn is it now ?
And what about the flannae or the rhennee?
What about a return to the old races (elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings but also orcs, gobelinoids, reptilian peoples etc...) ?
What about a return of the dragons ?
What about an assault from the forces of the underdark ?

Who can say ?
#13
mortellan
Jul 07, 2004 7:47:17 Intriguing stuff. Especially the Incabulous part. There is something inheritantly terroristic about Incabulous if he does splash on the scene it will likely be another cataclysmic event.

Whom turn is it now ?
And what about the flannae or the rhennee?
What about a return to the old races (elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings but also orcs, gobelinoids, reptilian peoples etc...) ?
What about a return of the dragons ?
What about an assault from the forces of the underdark ?

The Flan actually have had civilizations crumble way before the others showed on the scene. The Elves likewise had some comparable kingdoms before the migrations and won't see a resurgance ever. The little people of Oerth could multiply but since they tend to cling to hilly regions or mix in human settlements there is no chance of them creating a 'empire'. There IS the orcish empire of the Pomarj but given their history and geography the biggest gain they could stand to make is retaking the Lortmils and surrounding areas, leading to a Hateful Wars 2.
Dragons in GH tend to be low-key and I couldn't see them 'returning'. Likewise the Underdark rising in force was slightly exploited in previous products, but not really enough to make a lasting impact.
#14
Brom_Blackforge
Jul 08, 2004 8:11:22
Originally posted by mortellan
Dragons in GH tend to be low-key and I couldn't see them 'returning'.

I don't know whether the western portion of Oerik has ever been developed, but I've been thinking that the region might be a dragon stronghold - that's why there aren't many left in the Flanaess. Now, why they'd want to "return" I don't know...
#15
zombiegleemax
Jul 08, 2004 9:35:11 Well that Dragon Annual Map metions a "Sea of the Dragon King" down around "Nippon" (about the only half decent name in the whole thing), so perhaps at least one has got himself into a position of power...

P.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mordo Jul 05, 2004 6:23:22	My next campaign is to be set in the early 600's CY, and I'm looking for for any idea of geo-political developpement that might occur in the Flanaess from 591 CY. I've started looking on LG sites and Canonfire but I also want other ideas from DMs running campaign as much as how everyone see the future of Oerth. As for myself, I though about seeing Tenh fall to Pale, Geoff been absorb by Keoland as they helped much to reconquered the land, maybe having the Lordship of the Isles kicking off SB and joining the Iron League. Also I want to get rid of Iuz or at least reduce him to a minor vilain for some time. I thought about having Keoland going back to expansionism and having Pomarj a real menace. So how do you see the future of Greyhawk?
#2 Mortepierre Jul 05, 2004 6:47:35	The way events have been progressing (or been hinted at) in the LG journals, I think the following scenarios are likely: 1) The Pale takes formal control of the south-eastern part of Tenh, if not of the north-eastern part of Nyrond (the latter will probably lead to a war as Lynwerd is against the idea) 2) Keoland renews with its imperial past and tries to expand its borders (probably in Geoff and the Hold of the Sea Princes) 3) Iuz's influence in the former Bandit Kingdoms collapses 4) The Horned Society makes a come-back 5) Lordship of the Isles is invaded (probably by the Sea Barons with some help from Rel Astra) 6) Hardby tries to cut all links to Greyhawk 7) Rary manages to undo the curse that transformed Sulm into the Bright Desert 8) Ahlissa builds a fleet large enough to finally give the SB fleet a run for their money 9) Bissel and Ket go to war once again 10) Ratik falls to the Northern Kingdom But that's just me ;)
#3 mortellan Jul 05, 2004 11:18:34	Interesting list. Alot can happen in 10 game years. I particularly like the return of the Horned Society one. And the Bright Desert curse removed? I wonder how long that would take to repair.
#4 Mortepierre Jul 05, 2004 12:06:54	Originally posted by mortellan Interesting list. Alot can happen in 10 game years. I particularly like the return of the Horned Society one. And the Bright Desert curse removed? I wonder how long that would take to repair. Thank you. I just put in the list of events I have in store for my own campaign ;) As for the Bright Desert, I don't think it would take long. The way I see it, given its geographic location, the Bright Desert should receive decent rain every year and the proximity of the sea would give it a mild climate. Certainly plenty of wind to carry in seeds from lush neighboring countries. Assuming Rary breaks the curse that maintains the area in its desert-like condition (I am guessing it also tampers with the local weather), life should get better within a hundred years. If one has access to powerful magic like Rary does, it would be possible to reduce the wait. Of course, the assistance of a few druids wouldn't hurt...
#5 samwise Jul 05, 2004 12:31:26	How far into the early 600s? For the Sheldomar, Keoland should reincorporate one of the surrounding states every 1-3 years, starting with Geoff and proceeding through the Gran March, Sterich, and the Principality of Ulek. Following that, armies would drive into both the Pomarj and the Hold of the Sea Princes to liberate those nations from the armies currently occupying them. Along the way, both the Duchy of Ulek and the Yeomanry will be brought back into the fold. (The Duchy by seeing the Kingdom again has the internal strength as well as the active support of the Principality of Ulek, the Yeomanry on realizing that a united Kingdom means a single market for their troops, and they can either join or starve.) Each campaign would last 3-5 years. After that Keoland will have to negotiate borders on the Wild Coast with Greyhawk and Celene. As well, an agreement with Furyondy and Veluna regarding Bissel will have to be reached, with Keoland looking to liberate Thornward, and reincorporate all of Bissel into the Empire. At that point they will turn south to the Amedio Jungle, avoiding becoming entangled with the struggle against Iuz, as well as rejecting an endless war with Ket. To gain the Amedio, they will have to fight the Scarlet Brotherhood, and a long term naval campaign will be initiated to bring down that group, likely leading to a close alliance with Onnwal and Irongate.
#6 mordo Jul 06, 2004 2:00:34	I was thinking about something between CY 599 to CY 604 so there would have been some evolution between the actual conflict (CY 591) but not to much so the player might take position in favor or against rising nation. I really like the return of the horned society idea, but I'll have to get some info on them since I'm quite new to GH. The same goes for the Bright Desert, so if someone can point me where to get good ressources on both the Horned society and Bright desert... Also I just read the LG article "Realm of Dust" and it inspire me into having the Tenh fall to Pale where the Faithful Flan ruled the land but the "loyalist" leading a guerilla to take back the land for the Duke, and maybe having the Duke leading himself the guerilla...
#7 Mortepierre Jul 06, 2004 2:07:39	There you go, as per Jason Z. index (thanks man! what would we do without you) Horned Society (Horned Ones)(Horned Lands)[KNG][ORG] AOE - 7,91,95,138,141,145,194,232,234 CED - 38 COG:C# - 18 COG:FFF - 3,6,7,8,21,28,43,44,48,49,57-59,70,73 COG:GOTF - 18 DRG#52 - 20 DRG#55 - 19 DRG#56 - 18,19,20,21,22,23 DRG#253 - 44 DRG#256 - 49 DRG#262 - 38 DRG#263 - 51 DUN#32 - 61,62,63,65,67,71 DUN#53 - 35 FTAA - 6,22,27,29,37 FTAR#1 FTAR#2 FTAR#9 FTAR#11 GA - 39,42,49,50,77,81,82,97 GW:ADV - 3,4,9,10,11,14,20,25,30,31,32 HART - 2,3,14,37,40,43,45,46,47,48 LGG - 15,25,30,31,45,47,51,54,58,59,61,62,95,102,104,140 152,156,157,159,182,IBC LGJ#0 - 4,6,12 LGJ#1 - 24 LGJ#3 - 30 PGTG - 6,10 SOD - 14 SOOC - 6,151,160,163,237 T1-4 - 29 TAB - 3,17,19,23,60-62,91,108,116 TOH - 3 WG8 - 21,69,86,127 WG12 - 5 WGG - IC,2,5,7,10,11,14,15,21 WGM1 - IBC,2,8,12,15,20,28 WGR4 - 3,20,23,26,39 WGR5 - 1,4,5,19,25,35-48,53,55,56,57,61,67,75,78,80,83 84,88,95 WGR6 - 17,18 WOGA - 9,12,22,26,33,34,48,55,59,80,IBC WOGG - 8,10,17,32 Bright Desert [PLC] C2 - 2 COG:C# - 8,9 COG:GOTF - 19 DRG#57 - 13 DRG#191 - 68 DRG#209 - 11 DRG#249 - 90,91,94 DRG#290 - 98 DRG#293 - 90 DRG#299 - 99 DUN#30 - 22,23,24,25,27,28 FTAA - 9,10,61 FTAC - 11,13,31,32,37,85 FTAR#14 GA - 22,74,80,91,92 GW:ADV - 17,24 JAM - 12 LGG - 13,16,17,38,51,125,126,143,144,154,157 LGJ#0 - 7 LGJ#3 - 13,15,26 LGJ#4 - 1,23 LOG - 71 PGTG - 9,11,23,51 RTO8 - 59 S1 - 2 SLV - 2,7,37,38,43,45,60 SOOC - 6,288 TAB - 4,6,37,48,49,51,55,97 TAB:AM - 2,4,5,13 TSC - IC,2,4,13,38 WG5 - 24 WGA4 - 6 WGG - 20,21 WGR3 - 2,4,7,8,10,12-17,21,23,27,30-33,60,62,63 WGR4 - 35 WGR5 - 5,37 WOGA - 48,60 WOGG - 15
#8 mordo Jul 06, 2004 2:14:52	thank you very much Mortepierre, now I just have to check my bank account and buy the .pdf :D
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 06, 2004 3:26:17	I think I covered my thoughts on this on another thread, but this is always a fun thing to think about. So here’s my thoughts for what they’re worth. 1: Ahlissa Rising: Ahlissa will make a serious comeback as the economic powerhouse of the eastern Flanaess, similtaneously expanding its commercial and maritime reach esp. in the Azure and Aerdi Seas. Xavener will try to avoid war with the North Kingdom like the plague, though will try to secure alliances with neighbors like Nyrond to call in when the inevitable happens perhaps 10 years from present (594 CY). In the Azure Sea, Ahlissa will seek alliances with Irongate, Onnwal and Keoland to break the Scarlet Brotherhood stranglehold of the Azure Sea (an Azure League?). 2: Return to the Shadows: The Scarlet Brotherhood, faced with the backlash to its policy of open war during the Greyhawk Wars, in the form of resurgent Keoish and Ahlissan naval ambitions, will have to return to its previous and very successful policy of pulling strings behind the scenes. They will work to deflect any major naval campaigns in the Azure and in so doing protect the homelands of Shar (which was the goal of the SB acquisitions during the Wars in the first place). 3: The Horde of the Isles: I don’t see the Lords of the Isles either shrugging off the SB or falling foul of the Sea Barons. At the moment they have an almost complete monopoly of the trade in spices from the Amedio and Hepmonaland to the few ports in the Flanaess that allow them to dock (Nyrond’s ports, Gryrax and, IIRC, Hardby and Greyhawk City). That wealth, properly invested in fleet building, should ensure that they will maintain their monopoly against challenges from the Solnor Compact and the Sea Barons in the east, and Ahlissa, Keoland and the Iron League states in the west. As the Lords have this monopoly largely thanks to the good will of the SB, I don’t see them getting any notions of independence soon (bar some idealistic Oeridian lords here and there or if the SB starts to look like a loser). 4: On the Edge of Discovery: The Solnor Compact and Sea Barons will seek to find ways of circumventing the stanglehold that the SB/LoI and Ahlissa hold on their trade with the west. This will mean voyages of exploration down the East Coast of Hepmonaland (contacts with the Olman and Touv kingdoms) and across the Solnor to Fireland and the Far West of Oerik. Being far more organised and determined in terms of trade and colonisation than the Rhizian barbarians, you can see settlements and outposts being set up in these regions. Their efforts will be rather like those of Spain and Portugal in the early years of the Age of Exploration, when those states were shut out of the silk and spice trade with India and China. They may not be able to ultimately compete with the might of Ahlissa, should Xavener and the Royal Guild of Merchants of Aerdy (the Flanaess’ equivalent of the East India Company?) ever take an interest in overseas empire (just as Spain and Portugal lost out to the Dutch, British and French). However, the 600’s should see them taking advantage of their lead in tech and lore to gain sufficent wealth to remain independent of the big powers of old Aerdy. Also on this subject – we already know that the Scarlet Brotherhood has made contact with realms on the other shores of the Pearl Sea (most likely “Zindia” and “Nippon” as the Dragon Annual 1 called them). It’s likely that if the Keoish, Rel Astrans, Ahlissans or others push south, they’ll make contact also – leading to a whole new set of relations between the Flanaess and the rest of Oerik. This doesn't of course - just have to be Flanaess states going and conquering empires and colonies. There's nothing to stop a powerful state sending fleets and forces to carve out chunks of the Flanaess for itself perhaps... Colonization can be a two way street. Equally – states west of Zeif, including the “Celestial Empire” (some sort of vast, vaguely Oriental empire) will become more well known to the inhabitants of the Flanaess either through trade or from the distant repercussions of events in those lands. 5: Beyond the Pale: Whether or not you like your Tenh Ethered or unEthered, it’s pretty much a dead cert that the Pale will try to overrun that country. It’s also certain that the Tenhas will fight them tooth and nail for possession of their homeland. Luckily this should take the pressure off Lynwerd in the northlands of Nyrond. As Nyrond recovers under Lynwerd's adriot stweardship, prospects of Lesser Nyrond should recede. Still – while Swedernt remains at large and Lynwerd remains without issue, the whole political picture in Nyrond could change with one dagger blow. 6: The Future’s Bright? What will Rary do? Who knows… :D though it’s fairly safe to say he’s not going to be stupid enough to put on the Scorpion Crown and repeat Shattados’ Folly. If Keoland succeeds in removing the Pomarj as a threat to the central Flanaess, then Greyhawk no longer has its boogyman to frighten the cities of the Wild Coast into line. So it's likely, Hardby will make moves to rid itself of Greyhawk’s influence (possibly followed by Narwal and Safeton). As a lot of factions have an interest in seeing Greyhawk humbled, this could end up being very, very messy indeed. It could lead to various foreign powers trying to gain influence over the governance of the Free City itself, to control via puppets (easier than marching in and making yourself a target for everyone else to shoot at) the biggest bazaar and road nexus in the Central Flanaess. It’s likely that Countess Bellissica will live out her years in the Glorianna style of Elizabeth I. What this means for the rulership of the County of Urnst is unclear. It's certain that the Lorinar Dukes of Urnst will make a play to reunite the two states, probably resisted by the Gellors and other County nobles. It’s very unlikely this will ever be more than a bit of diplomatic intrigue, though hostile parties (such as the SB) might use the struggle to their advantage. 7: Furyondy in turmoil Another state with succession troubles is Furyondy. Belvor won’t live forever and it’s unlikely that a vampiric Thrommel will be accepted for long by the Great Houses of Furyondy. Furyondy is therefore in for a bout of political infighting among the noble houses to put their man on the throne. This is of course great news for Iuz, who can take his eye off that particular ball for a while and get busy becoming a full god. It’s also good for the SB, who, having taken the trouble to eliminate Thrommel in the first place, must have some long term plan in place to exploit events after Belvor’s death. 8: Iuz at Bay: Iuz has got to have some sort of slick move up his sleeve to explain why he’s letting his empire apprently be nibbled away around him. My bet it has something to do with an extraplanar power play and an attempt to become a full god. Any power plays may involve Iggwilv (perhaps left as his regent on Oerth while he goes and sorts stuff out on the Planes?), Gra’zzt and Pazeral (who both having shown interest in the Oerth are unlikely to have wandered off to do other things just because Hazen waved the Crook of Rao about a bit). In the short term, if Iuz does wander off to the planes, it may appear to those on the Oerth that he’s vanished or been defeated. In the meantime the Horned Society will continue to exploit his apparent weakness and spread their tentacles across the Flanaess. His empire may continue to contract, until of course he comes back in X years to remind everyone of why their grandsires feared Iuz the Old. Obviously if Iuz ever becomes a full god, then that’s big trouble for the Flanaess if not the entire Oerth. This could even be the cause of the Great War presaged by Sargent in Ivid the Undying – which IMO may lead to the Fading of Magic seen in Pluffet Smedger’s time (998 CY). If in the meantime, the Flanaess extends contacts to other states in other parts of Oerik and elsewhere, this might be Oerth's first World War. 9: Incabulos Incubating: Incabulos is pretty much the only Major evil god who’s been doing precisely nothing in the past 20 years. Nothing obvious, of course. Like Iuz, he’s gotta have some sort of play in the making. Something big – like perhaps a nice big plague to remind everyone who he is. All those ships returning from foreign parts with strange germs are just too tempting to pass up… All IMO of course... P.
#10 grodog Jul 06, 2004 21:24:53	I have always been very fond of Montand's "The Future of Greyhawk" post to Greytalk on 12 October 2001: http://www.greycitadel.com/greycitadel/greytalk.nsf/dceb214b2cd0ea47852567da006e1d91/ab599b3d88144efd85256ae300378b3a?OpenDocument You might also want to check out the discussion about NightWatch in the closed novels thread, since it's set in the future of GH as well.
#11 Mortepierre Jul 07, 2004 1:05:15	Originally posted by grodog I have always been very fond of Montand's "The Future of Greyhawk" post to Greytalk on 12 October 2001: http://www.greycitadel.com/greycitadel/greytalk.nsf/dceb214b2cd0ea47852567da006e1d91/ab599b3d88144efd85256ae300378b3a?OpenDocument Intriguing.. I do admit that the kind of events he describes are possible. The one thing that doesn't settle well with me is that nations of Good that were hit hard during the Greyhawk Wars are hit even harder now. By the time this is over, the world we get is moving closer and closer to the Midnight setting (from Fantasy Flight Games). While a grim world ruled by Evil and intolerance can certainly foster heroes worthy of legend, I continue to believe that it's too extreme for GH.
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 7:05:05	Who can answer to this question ? Long time ago Suel and Baklunish collapsed. A new suel order came in the Sheldomar Valley but collapsed. An Empire came as the Great Kingdom of the oeridian and collapsed. Iuz built his empire and collapsed. Whom turn is it now ? And what about the flannae or the rhennee? What about a return to the old races (elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings but also orcs, gobelinoids, reptilian peoples etc...) ? What about a return of the dragons ? What about an assault from the forces of the underdark ? Who can say ?
#13 mortellan Jul 07, 2004 7:47:17	Intriguing stuff. Especially the Incabulous part. There is something inheritantly terroristic about Incabulous if he does splash on the scene it will likely be another cataclysmic event. Whom turn is it now ? And what about the flannae or the rhennee? What about a return to the old races (elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings but also orcs, gobelinoids, reptilian peoples etc...) ? What about a return of the dragons ? What about an assault from the forces of the underdark ? The Flan actually have had civilizations crumble way before the others showed on the scene. The Elves likewise had some comparable kingdoms before the migrations and won't see a resurgance ever. The little people of Oerth could multiply but since they tend to cling to hilly regions or mix in human settlements there is no chance of them creating a 'empire'. There IS the orcish empire of the Pomarj but given their history and geography the biggest gain they could stand to make is retaking the Lortmils and surrounding areas, leading to a Hateful Wars 2. Dragons in GH tend to be low-key and I couldn't see them 'returning'. Likewise the Underdark rising in force was slightly exploited in previous products, but not really enough to make a lasting impact.
#14 Brom_Blackforge Jul 08, 2004 8:11:22	Originally posted by mortellan Dragons in GH tend to be low-key and I couldn't see them 'returning'. I don't know whether the western portion of Oerik has ever been developed, but I've been thinking that the region might be a dragon stronghold - that's why there aren't many left in the Flanaess. Now, why they'd want to "return" I don't know...
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 08, 2004 9:35:11	Well that Dragon Annual Map metions a "Sea of the Dragon King" down around "Nippon" (about the only half decent name in the whole thing), so perhaps at least one has got himself into a position of power... P.