Sorcerers, Wizards & Towers - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Sorcerers, Wizards & Towers

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
edgelett
Jul 05, 2004 18:22:24 OK, been reading through the DLCS now it's finally here (yay!) and can't seem to find the answer to this question:

Do sorcerers go through the tower of high sorcery & take the test just as wizards do??

Or are sorcerers not permitted to take the test?

If not, are they then considered renegades?

Where is the incentive for a PC to play a sorcerer in DLCS then?

Or are sorcerers pretty much a non PC class now?

Thanks!!

ps Does anyone else think it's wierd that a place called the tower of high SORCERY is full of WIZARDS?
#2
simetrical
Jul 05, 2004 18:53:43 I believe that all sorcerers are renegades. I don't have the DLCS, but that's what I read in some other thread here.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 05, 2004 19:17:29 Sorcery is another word for wizardry in the dictionary. Sorcerer and Wizard and Magician are all interchangable. Its just with DnD with the two different classes.
#4
Dragonhelm
Jul 05, 2004 19:38:50 There may be some spoilers for Wizard's Conclave, so I'll add some...

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Originally posted by edgelett
Do sorcerers go through the tower of high sorcery & take the test just as wizards do??

No. Sorcerers tap into the power of Wild Sorcery (arcane magic used in the creation of Krynn), while wizards draw their magic from High Sorcery (arcane magic derived from the gods of magic and influenced by the moons that represent them).

Or are sorcerers not permitted to take the test?

If not, are they then considered renegades?

A sorcerer could undergo an epiphany, where he swore off Wild Sorcery forever to follow the path of a wizard. Then he could take the Test.

Otherwise, they are considered renegades.

Where is the incentive for a PC to play a sorcerer in DLCS then?

Or are sorcerers pretty much a non PC class now?

By no means. There are plenty of reasons to play them.

The WoHS are just now reconvening. They are fairly weak in numbers, and don't have the resources to hunt down all the sorcerers. It will be some time before sorcerers can fear being attacked by a strong force of wizards.

Sorcerers may not find acceptance in the Orders of High Sorcery, but they most certainly will with other organizations such as the Legion of Steel and the Knights of the Thorn.

The WoHS are somewhat limited on various roles they can pursue, while a sorcerer isn't as constrained. For example, the role of an arcane trickster or spellfilch really don't fit the mold of the WoHS. Yet they would be perfectly viable options for a sorcerer.

Also, the sorcerer would function in the early Age of Mortals when wizards are not present.

I think the most interesting thing about sorcerers is a combination of their independent natures with the idea of them trying to coexist with the wizards. Certainly, there will be conflict. This provides many role-playing opportunities.

For example, what happens when a sorcerer goes to the Legion of Steel for protection from the WoHS? What if one of the players was a White Robe? Would he go with the cause of good, or with the Orders of High Sorcery?

ps Does anyone else think it's wierd that a place called the tower of high SORCERY is full of WIZARDS?

Lol!

The two terms used to be fairly interchangeable. Magius was referred to as a sorcerer throughout Legend of Huma. When doing the comic conversion (and due to the addition of the sorcerer to Dragonlance), I've changed every instance of the term "sorcerer" to read "wizard". Trust me, there's a lot!

Just think of it as an ancient term created ages ago, and that the term "sorcerer" didn't refer to another type of spellcaster until Palin Majere.
#5
edgelett
Jul 05, 2004 20:29:35 Dragonhelm, you are a champ. You've answered all the questions me & my DM had, you rock.

Thanks heaps.
#6
Dragonhelm
Jul 05, 2004 21:02:03
Originally posted by edgelett
Dragonhelm, you are a champ. You've answered all the questions me & my DM had, you rock.

Thanks heaps.

No problem. Glad to be of service.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 15:00:23 It is interesting to play a sorcerer. After all, they are a marked class. :D
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 08, 2004 12:38:03 Marked yes, but marked by a group that is neither organized enough, nor has enough members to effectively deal with the prospect of hunting the wild sorcerers down
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 09, 2004 14:48:59
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Marked yes, but marked by a group that is neither organized enough, nor has enough members to effectively deal with the prospect of hunting the wild sorcerers down

Yes, for now. There will come a time when such is not the case. and then, there will be a reckoning, at least in the minds of the Gods of Magic.
#10
zombiegleemax
Jul 09, 2004 17:07:39 Sadly for the WoHS I believe that the WIld Sorcerers would still have the upper hand, it seems to me that there is less training involved in being a wild sorcerer (IMHO) therefore many more people would be willing to take the time to become one, rather than the extensive years of study required for wizardry. Also wild sorcerers are an all inclusive bunch, mainly due to the fact that they dont have a binding government like the WoHS to tell who can and cant join.....that and the wild sorcerers have no lethal test to pass in order to prove they can use the magic responsibly....therefore not only are the WoHS outnumbererd now, it seems to me that at full strength the WoHS wouls STILL be outnumbered.
#11
Nived
Jul 12, 2004 8:53:05 Perhaps, but High Sorcery has that euphoric almost druglike quality. How many times have we heard WoHS speak of the extasy they feel while casting? How WoHS went through withdrawls when the magic left? How many hated primal sorcery because it could never give them that same rush.

High Sorcery is addictive, maybe it contains nicotine... but anyway all the WoHS have to get a young adept to 'take a hit', so to speak. The rest it letting the magic take its course.
#12
zombiegleemax
Jul 12, 2004 10:56:50 The sorcerers may have numbers but the wizards have gods working with them.
#13
Dragonhelm
Jul 12, 2004 11:20:19
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Sadly for the WoHS I believe that the WIld Sorcerers would still have the upper hand, it seems to me that there is less training involved in being a wild sorcerer (IMHO) therefore many more people would be willing to take the time to become one, rather than the extensive years of study required for wizardry. Also wild sorcerers are an all inclusive bunch, mainly due to the fact that they dont have a binding government like the WoHS to tell who can and cant join.....that and the wild sorcerers have no lethal test to pass in order to prove they can use the magic responsibly....therefore not only are the WoHS outnumbererd now, it seems to me that at full strength the WoHS wouls STILL be outnumbered.

Very good points. The sorcerers do, indeed, have wizards outnumbered (only 16 wizards, according to Wizards' Conclave).

However, there is very little organization to them. The most organized group are the Knights of the Thorn, who I'm sure are going through a bit of disarray after the War of Souls. Following that would probably be the Legion of Steel. They haven't really had any reason to come into conflict with the WoHS. The Academy of Sorcery is gone now, so that wouldn't be around to compete with the WoHS.

Wild Sorcery probably is a bit more accessible to the average person. It's the "everyman magic", and only requires natural talent to use. It's sort of like how some people are talented artistically or musically.

High Sorcery is godly arcane magic, which requires much more study and dedication to use. To become a wizard, you must fully dedicate yourself to the magic. High Sorcery, unlike Wild Sorcery, has the backing of the gods of magic as well as the Orders of High Sorcery who set down the laws of magic.

So maybe there are more sorcerers. Without any organization, they wouldn't be able to take on the WoHS. At the same time, the WoHS are quite weak now and it will take several generations to get back to their former strength.

And so, there is a balance. ;)
#14
zombiegleemax
Jul 12, 2004 14:06:54 (All said not having read "Wizard's Conclave", so bear with me...if the points I make are incorrect due to the novel, then buy me a copy of the book! ;) )

Alright, it is my belief that if the small number of WoHS and their aspiring initiates began to actively hunt practitioners of Wild Sorcery, the wizards would have their robed arses handed to them. As Wild Sorcerers come from all walks of life they are also of extremely varying temperaments.....It wouldnt take long for a Malcolm Xish leader to arise and unite them under a common banner. And believe you me, if anything riles people up enough to gather together and cause a ruckus it's the prejudicial bigotry that the WoHS are showing against wild sorcerers.

I just cant see a group of sixteen wizard's lasting long against the Wild Sorcerers.....some kind of peace is going to be found Im sure, but it will be after bloodshed.....or after Wild Sorcerers save the existence of the WoHS.....which from what I hear of this Coryn character may be exactly what is in the works....for some reason I believe we will see official resolution of this matter between the wizards and sorcerers.
#15
Dragonhelm
Jul 12, 2004 15:07:06
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
I just cant see a group of sixteen wizard's lasting long against the Wild Sorcerers.....some kind of peace is going to be found Im sure, but it will be after bloodshed.....or after Wild Sorcerers save the existence of the WoHS.....which from what I hear of this Coryn character may be exactly what is in the works....for some reason I believe we will see official resolution of this matter between the wizards and sorcerers.

Those 16 wizards are all that was left after the events in Wizards’ Conclave. A few of the other wizards perished. Without giving too much away, I’ll say that the wizards nearly lost to two sorcerers (with a VERY powerful magical artifact).

You’re right that the sorcerers have the potential to wipe the floor with the WoHS. Like you said, it would take a very charismatic leader to unite all these sorcerers into one force, especially considering the independent nature of sorcerers.

Only time will tell how the two will work together in the setting. For now, they will co-exist.
#16
zombiegleemax
Jul 12, 2004 16:13:18 The Knigths of the THron are all sorcereers arent they?
#17
Dragonhelm
Jul 12, 2004 16:23:47
Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
The Knigths of the THron are all sorcereers arent they?

In the current era, yes. They all began as wizards. After the Chaos War, they were all sorcerers.

With the return of the gods of magic, it is possible that a renegade wizard might join their ranks again. The chances of this are very unlikely, though.
#18
zombiegleemax
Jul 12, 2004 18:59:06 I agree with Dragonhelm here....very unlikely to have a renegade wizard in the KoN......not impossible....but pretty unlikely....I see them now as the Dark Knights with no patron god.....their Queen abandoned them, and then died on them whilst committing a crime against the other gods...If I were a KoN I would be like "Screw dieties man!"
#19
ferratus
Jul 12, 2004 20:12:26 If the the other traitor gods and the dissobedient mortals had followed our glorious Queen, then she wouldn't have had to take such drastic measures. ;)

Never underestimate the power of self-denial and justifying away problems in service to a cause. Especially one which uses as much brain washing as the Knights of Nereka do.

I don't know, without devotion to Takhisis I don't really see the Knights of Nereka as really being themselves. I see some efforts to try and make them obsessed with order, but I don't really think we are thinking to the next step. Order for what purpose? Before it was for the Queen of Darkness, in whom they were religiously devoted. If they toss aside the Queen, then what?

Fascist governments drew upon racial and nationalistic fervor to inspire their countries to serve. Is that the route the Nerekans are taking? I'm not sure I like that. I mean, I'm all for hating Nazi's but I'm not so sure I want them in a Dragonlance game.

If the conquest and order is for their own gains, then we have the problem of them just being poor substitutes for the dragonarmy, which we pretty much agree we don't like.

None of the other gods are suitable replacements. Sargonnas is too brutal and hot-headed, and besides he has hitched himself to the minotaur's ox-cart. Chemosh would turn the Nerekans into a death cult, with undead knights, liches, and vampires controlling the organization. Hiddukel is a greedy trickster figure. Morgion just wants to spread entropy and decay, and Zeboim is a tempestuous Sea Goddess.

Even dead, Takhisis seems to be the best focal point for Dark Knight ideology.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 edgelett Jul 05, 2004 18:22:24	OK, been reading through the DLCS now it's finally here (yay!) and can't seem to find the answer to this question: Do sorcerers go through the tower of high sorcery & take the test just as wizards do?? Or are sorcerers not permitted to take the test? If not, are they then considered renegades? Where is the incentive for a PC to play a sorcerer in DLCS then? Or are sorcerers pretty much a non PC class now? Thanks!! ps Does anyone else think it's wierd that a place called the tower of high SORCERY is full of WIZARDS?
#2 simetrical Jul 05, 2004 18:53:43	I believe that all sorcerers are renegades. I don't have the DLCS, but that's what I read in some other thread here.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 05, 2004 19:17:29	Sorcery is another word for wizardry in the dictionary. Sorcerer and Wizard and Magician are all interchangable. Its just with DnD with the two different classes.
#4 Dragonhelm Jul 05, 2004 19:38:50	There may be some spoilers for Wizard's Conclave, so I'll add some... s p o i l e r s p a c e Originally posted by edgelett Do sorcerers go through the tower of high sorcery & take the test just as wizards do?? No. Sorcerers tap into the power of Wild Sorcery (arcane magic used in the creation of Krynn), while wizards draw their magic from High Sorcery (arcane magic derived from the gods of magic and influenced by the moons that represent them). Or are sorcerers not permitted to take the test? If not, are they then considered renegades? A sorcerer could undergo an epiphany, where he swore off Wild Sorcery forever to follow the path of a wizard. Then he could take the Test. Otherwise, they are considered renegades. Where is the incentive for a PC to play a sorcerer in DLCS then? Or are sorcerers pretty much a non PC class now? By no means. There are plenty of reasons to play them. The WoHS are just now reconvening. They are fairly weak in numbers, and don't have the resources to hunt down all the sorcerers. It will be some time before sorcerers can fear being attacked by a strong force of wizards. Sorcerers may not find acceptance in the Orders of High Sorcery, but they most certainly will with other organizations such as the Legion of Steel and the Knights of the Thorn. The WoHS are somewhat limited on various roles they can pursue, while a sorcerer isn't as constrained. For example, the role of an arcane trickster or spellfilch really don't fit the mold of the WoHS. Yet they would be perfectly viable options for a sorcerer. Also, the sorcerer would function in the early Age of Mortals when wizards are not present. I think the most interesting thing about sorcerers is a combination of their independent natures with the idea of them trying to coexist with the wizards. Certainly, there will be conflict. This provides many role-playing opportunities. For example, what happens when a sorcerer goes to the Legion of Steel for protection from the WoHS? What if one of the players was a White Robe? Would he go with the cause of good, or with the Orders of High Sorcery? ps Does anyone else think it's wierd that a place called the tower of high SORCERY is full of WIZARDS? Lol! The two terms used to be fairly interchangeable. Magius was referred to as a sorcerer throughout Legend of Huma. When doing the comic conversion (and due to the addition of the sorcerer to Dragonlance), I've changed every instance of the term "sorcerer" to read "wizard". Trust me, there's a lot! Just think of it as an ancient term created ages ago, and that the term "sorcerer" didn't refer to another type of spellcaster until Palin Majere.
#5 edgelett Jul 05, 2004 20:29:35	Dragonhelm, you are a champ. You've answered all the questions me & my DM had, you rock. Thanks heaps.
#6 Dragonhelm Jul 05, 2004 21:02:03	Originally posted by edgelett Dragonhelm, you are a champ. You've answered all the questions me & my DM had, you rock. Thanks heaps. No problem. Glad to be of service.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 15:00:23	It is interesting to play a sorcerer. After all, they are a marked class. :D
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 08, 2004 12:38:03	Marked yes, but marked by a group that is neither organized enough, nor has enough members to effectively deal with the prospect of hunting the wild sorcerers down
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 09, 2004 14:48:59	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Marked yes, but marked by a group that is neither organized enough, nor has enough members to effectively deal with the prospect of hunting the wild sorcerers down Yes, for now. There will come a time when such is not the case. and then, there will be a reckoning, at least in the minds of the Gods of Magic.
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 09, 2004 17:07:39	Sadly for the WoHS I believe that the WIld Sorcerers would still have the upper hand, it seems to me that there is less training involved in being a wild sorcerer (IMHO) therefore many more people would be willing to take the time to become one, rather than the extensive years of study required for wizardry. Also wild sorcerers are an all inclusive bunch, mainly due to the fact that they dont have a binding government like the WoHS to tell who can and cant join.....that and the wild sorcerers have no lethal test to pass in order to prove they can use the magic responsibly....therefore not only are the WoHS outnumbererd now, it seems to me that at full strength the WoHS wouls STILL be outnumbered.
#11 Nived Jul 12, 2004 8:53:05	Perhaps, but High Sorcery has that euphoric almost druglike quality. How many times have we heard WoHS speak of the extasy they feel while casting? How WoHS went through withdrawls when the magic left? How many hated primal sorcery because it could never give them that same rush. High Sorcery is addictive, maybe it contains nicotine... but anyway all the WoHS have to get a young adept to 'take a hit', so to speak. The rest it letting the magic take its course.
#12 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 10:56:50	The sorcerers may have numbers but the wizards have gods working with them.
#13 Dragonhelm Jul 12, 2004 11:20:19	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Sadly for the WoHS I believe that the WIld Sorcerers would still have the upper hand, it seems to me that there is less training involved in being a wild sorcerer (IMHO) therefore many more people would be willing to take the time to become one, rather than the extensive years of study required for wizardry. Also wild sorcerers are an all inclusive bunch, mainly due to the fact that they dont have a binding government like the WoHS to tell who can and cant join.....that and the wild sorcerers have no lethal test to pass in order to prove they can use the magic responsibly....therefore not only are the WoHS outnumbererd now, it seems to me that at full strength the WoHS wouls STILL be outnumbered. Very good points. The sorcerers do, indeed, have wizards outnumbered (only 16 wizards, according to Wizards' Conclave). However, there is very little organization to them. The most organized group are the Knights of the Thorn, who I'm sure are going through a bit of disarray after the War of Souls. Following that would probably be the Legion of Steel. They haven't really had any reason to come into conflict with the WoHS. The Academy of Sorcery is gone now, so that wouldn't be around to compete with the WoHS. Wild Sorcery probably is a bit more accessible to the average person. It's the "everyman magic", and only requires natural talent to use. It's sort of like how some people are talented artistically or musically. High Sorcery is godly arcane magic, which requires much more study and dedication to use. To become a wizard, you must fully dedicate yourself to the magic. High Sorcery, unlike Wild Sorcery, has the backing of the gods of magic as well as the Orders of High Sorcery who set down the laws of magic. So maybe there are more sorcerers. Without any organization, they wouldn't be able to take on the WoHS. At the same time, the WoHS are quite weak now and it will take several generations to get back to their former strength. And so, there is a balance. ;)
#14 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 14:06:54	(All said not having read "Wizard's Conclave", so bear with me...if the points I make are incorrect due to the novel, then buy me a copy of the book! ;) ) Alright, it is my belief that if the small number of WoHS and their aspiring initiates began to actively hunt practitioners of Wild Sorcery, the wizards would have their robed arses handed to them. As Wild Sorcerers come from all walks of life they are also of extremely varying temperaments.....It wouldnt take long for a Malcolm Xish leader to arise and unite them under a common banner. And believe you me, if anything riles people up enough to gather together and cause a ruckus it's the prejudicial bigotry that the WoHS are showing against wild sorcerers. I just cant see a group of sixteen wizard's lasting long against the Wild Sorcerers.....some kind of peace is going to be found Im sure, but it will be after bloodshed.....or after Wild Sorcerers save the existence of the WoHS.....which from what I hear of this Coryn character may be exactly what is in the works....for some reason I believe we will see official resolution of this matter between the wizards and sorcerers.
#15 Dragonhelm Jul 12, 2004 15:07:06	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst I just cant see a group of sixteen wizard's lasting long against the Wild Sorcerers.....some kind of peace is going to be found Im sure, but it will be after bloodshed.....or after Wild Sorcerers save the existence of the WoHS.....which from what I hear of this Coryn character may be exactly what is in the works....for some reason I believe we will see official resolution of this matter between the wizards and sorcerers. Those 16 wizards are all that was left after the events in Wizards’ Conclave. A few of the other wizards perished. Without giving too much away, I’ll say that the wizards nearly lost to two sorcerers (with a VERY powerful magical artifact). You’re right that the sorcerers have the potential to wipe the floor with the WoHS. Like you said, it would take a very charismatic leader to unite all these sorcerers into one force, especially considering the independent nature of sorcerers. Only time will tell how the two will work together in the setting. For now, they will co-exist.
#16 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 16:13:18	The Knigths of the THron are all sorcereers arent they?
#17 Dragonhelm Jul 12, 2004 16:23:47	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn The Knigths of the THron are all sorcereers arent they? In the current era, yes. They all began as wizards. After the Chaos War, they were all sorcerers. With the return of the gods of magic, it is possible that a renegade wizard might join their ranks again. The chances of this are very unlikely, though.
#18 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 18:59:06	I agree with Dragonhelm here....very unlikely to have a renegade wizard in the KoN......not impossible....but pretty unlikely....I see them now as the Dark Knights with no patron god.....their Queen abandoned them, and then died on them whilst committing a crime against the other gods...If I were a KoN I would be like "Screw dieties man!"
#19 ferratus Jul 12, 2004 20:12:26	If the the other traitor gods and the dissobedient mortals had followed our glorious Queen, then she wouldn't have had to take such drastic measures. ;) Never underestimate the power of self-denial and justifying away problems in service to a cause. Especially one which uses as much brain washing as the Knights of Nereka do. I don't know, without devotion to Takhisis I don't really see the Knights of Nereka as really being themselves. I see some efforts to try and make them obsessed with order, but I don't really think we are thinking to the next step. Order for what purpose? Before it was for the Queen of Darkness, in whom they were religiously devoted. If they toss aside the Queen, then what? Fascist governments drew upon racial and nationalistic fervor to inspire their countries to serve. Is that the route the Nerekans are taking? I'm not sure I like that. I mean, I'm all for hating Nazi's but I'm not so sure I want them in a Dragonlance game. If the conquest and order is for their own gains, then we have the problem of them just being poor substitutes for the dragonarmy, which we pretty much agree we don't like. None of the other gods are suitable replacements. Sargonnas is too brutal and hot-headed, and besides he has hitched himself to the minotaur's ox-cart. Chemosh would turn the Nerekans into a death cult, with undead knights, liches, and vampires controlling the organization. Hiddukel is a greedy trickster figure. Morgion just wants to spread entropy and decay, and Zeboim is a tempestuous Sea Goddess. Even dead, Takhisis seems to be the best focal point for Dark Knight ideology.