Knights & Gods - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Knights & Gods

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
edgelett
Jul 06, 2004 22:46:36 OK, now I've nearly finished my first DLCS character, I'll be multiclassing Noble/Fighter & then taking Knight of the Crown PRC, I just want to clarify which God I'll be worshipping...

Do Crown Knights in the 5th age worship Habbakuk or Kiri-Jolith?

Ta!
#2
cam_banks
Jul 06, 2004 23:37:48
Originally posted by edgelett
OK, now I've nearly finished my first DLCS character, I'll be multiclassing Noble/Fighter & then taking Knight of the Crown PRC, I just want to clarify which God I'll be worshipping...
Do Crown Knights in the 5th age worship Habbakuk or Kiri-Jolith?

Either. If you're moving on to Sword Knight, you'll want KJ, but worshipping Habbakuk is fine. He's not granting spells or anything and you aren't a cleric, so your knight can pay his respects to anybody he likes.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
edgelett
Jul 07, 2004 0:44:07 cool, thanks Cam. I was going to choose KJ just cause I liked his portfolio, thought it fit with the way I wanted to run my character.

Thanks again!
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 07, 2004 14:24:40 Sword Knights get their spells from Kiri-Jolith dont they?
I still dont think it makes sense for a Rose Knight to cast spells. There was never indication of that in the books.
#5
true_blue
Jul 08, 2004 4:01:08 So that means if you're a Knight of the Sword or Knight of the Rose that you are a cleric of Kiri-Jolith first? So pretty much they should have changed the requirements for Sword and Rose to mystic or cleric of Kiri-Jolith.

I think that clerics of Habbakuk should still be able to raise levels in the knighthood..not just Crown. It'd be nice if Kiri-Jolith just gave them the powers that came from being a Sword or Rose knight but the spells are from Habbakuk. I think the Knights of Solamnia just feel too much like the priesthood of Kiri-Jolith.

I worry what would happen if the Knights ended up not liking what the priesthood of Kiri-Jolith were doing sometime. When this happened with the priesthood of Paladine, the Knights were worshipping 3 different deities and for some reason I could understand them not exactly always agreeing with one clergy. It seems Habbakuk is just basically honored...and thats it. Nothing..
#6
cam_banks
Jul 08, 2004 6:00:52
Originally posted by True_Blue
So that means if you're a Knight of the Sword or Knight of the Rose that you are a cleric of Kiri-Jolith first? So pretty much they should have changed the requirements for Sword and Rose to mystic or cleric of Kiri-Jolith.

Once you start down that road as a knight of Solamnia, your class levels stop being treated as separate careers and are instead simply reflective of acquired skills and abilities. A knight of the Crown who takes levels in cleric in preparation for becoming a knight of the Sword is not going off to join the Holy Orders, he's coming to his spiritual power within the Solamnic orders. Essentially, he's a knight whose veneration of the gods begins to show actual results. Kiri-Jolith is the primary patron of this activity within the Solamnic knights, because he is patron of the Order of the Sword and therefore the patron of knightly clerics. Habbakuk and Paladine are honored as patrons of the Orders in general, but a knight of the Sword has that deeper connection only with Kiri-Jolith.

The knights of Solamnia were originally written up in DLA as cavaliers, of which the paladin was a subclass in post-Unearthed Arcana AD&D. Sword Knights were a little like paladins, having minor divine spellcasting which they prepared once a week. They were also the only Order that cast spells - you typically joined the Order of the Rose before you advanced high enough in Sword to get those weekly spell slots. Therefore, at the time it wasn't a big deal at all to have Kiri-Jolith as the "paladin god".

The SAGA products were the first to change all of this. Knights of the Rose are said to have even more spellcasting power than Sword Knights (their spellcasting ability code advances one step), which was quite a break from AD&D. Even in 2E, knights of Solamnia didn't get more spells once they switched to the Order of the Rose.

With the way prestige classes and spellcasting works now in D&D3E, the knights are required in the Fifth Age to pursue clerical advancement before they can advance beyond the Order of the Crown. As we've seen, this creates potential issues regarding patron deities and so on, but perhaps its simplest just to state that whoever the patron of your Order is determines where any spells or supernatural abilities come from.

Cheers,
Cam
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 08, 2004 11:26:03 Has there been any evidence of the KOR casting cleric spells? Who do they get their powers from? What about when the gods are gone?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 edgelett Jul 06, 2004 22:46:36	OK, now I've nearly finished my first DLCS character, I'll be multiclassing Noble/Fighter & then taking Knight of the Crown PRC, I just want to clarify which God I'll be worshipping... Do Crown Knights in the 5th age worship Habbakuk or Kiri-Jolith? Ta!
#2 cam_banks Jul 06, 2004 23:37:48	Originally posted by edgelett OK, now I've nearly finished my first DLCS character, I'll be multiclassing Noble/Fighter & then taking Knight of the Crown PRC, I just want to clarify which God I'll be worshipping... Do Crown Knights in the 5th age worship Habbakuk or Kiri-Jolith? Either. If you're moving on to Sword Knight, you'll want KJ, but worshipping Habbakuk is fine. He's not granting spells or anything and you aren't a cleric, so your knight can pay his respects to anybody he likes. Cheers, Cam
#3 edgelett Jul 07, 2004 0:44:07	cool, thanks Cam. I was going to choose KJ just cause I liked his portfolio, thought it fit with the way I wanted to run my character. Thanks again!
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 07, 2004 14:24:40	Sword Knights get their spells from Kiri-Jolith dont they? I still dont think it makes sense for a Rose Knight to cast spells. There was never indication of that in the books.
#5 true_blue Jul 08, 2004 4:01:08	So that means if you're a Knight of the Sword or Knight of the Rose that you are a cleric of Kiri-Jolith first? So pretty much they should have changed the requirements for Sword and Rose to mystic or cleric of Kiri-Jolith. I think that clerics of Habbakuk should still be able to raise levels in the knighthood..not just Crown. It'd be nice if Kiri-Jolith just gave them the powers that came from being a Sword or Rose knight but the spells are from Habbakuk. I think the Knights of Solamnia just feel too much like the priesthood of Kiri-Jolith. I worry what would happen if the Knights ended up not liking what the priesthood of Kiri-Jolith were doing sometime. When this happened with the priesthood of Paladine, the Knights were worshipping 3 different deities and for some reason I could understand them not exactly always agreeing with one clergy. It seems Habbakuk is just basically honored...and thats it. Nothing..
#6 cam_banks Jul 08, 2004 6:00:52	Originally posted by True_Blue So that means if you're a Knight of the Sword or Knight of the Rose that you are a cleric of Kiri-Jolith first? So pretty much they should have changed the requirements for Sword and Rose to mystic or cleric of Kiri-Jolith. Once you start down that road as a knight of Solamnia, your class levels stop being treated as separate careers and are instead simply reflective of acquired skills and abilities. A knight of the Crown who takes levels in cleric in preparation for becoming a knight of the Sword is not going off to join the Holy Orders, he's coming to his spiritual power within the Solamnic orders. Essentially, he's a knight whose veneration of the gods begins to show actual results. Kiri-Jolith is the primary patron of this activity within the Solamnic knights, because he is patron of the Order of the Sword and therefore the patron of knightly clerics. Habbakuk and Paladine are honored as patrons of the Orders in general, but a knight of the Sword has that deeper connection only with Kiri-Jolith. The knights of Solamnia were originally written up in DLA as cavaliers, of which the paladin was a subclass in post-Unearthed Arcana AD&D. Sword Knights were a little like paladins, having minor divine spellcasting which they prepared once a week. They were also the only Order that cast spells - you typically joined the Order of the Rose before you advanced high enough in Sword to get those weekly spell slots. Therefore, at the time it wasn't a big deal at all to have Kiri-Jolith as the "paladin god". The SAGA products were the first to change all of this. Knights of the Rose are said to have even more spellcasting power than Sword Knights (their spellcasting ability code advances one step), which was quite a break from AD&D. Even in 2E, knights of Solamnia didn't get more spells once they switched to the Order of the Rose. With the way prestige classes and spellcasting works now in D&D3E, the knights are required in the Fifth Age to pursue clerical advancement before they can advance beyond the Order of the Crown. As we've seen, this creates potential issues regarding patron deities and so on, but perhaps its simplest just to state that whoever the patron of your Order is determines where any spells or supernatural abilities come from. Cheers, Cam
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 08, 2004 11:26:03	Has there been any evidence of the KOR casting cleric spells? Who do they get their powers from? What about when the gods are gone?