Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 10, 2004 21:59:29	This is an open call to the Dark Sun Community for information and ideas pertaining to the Deadlands Region south of the Tyr Region. I have no private material on this region and will be working solely off of information from individuals. The map expansion will cover an area the size of the Tyr Region and Beyond map provided with the Campaign Setting. At this point I have the supplement: The Deadlands of Athas by Gerald Arthur Lewis and the material released with the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. I also have a map created by Brax entitled Athas Part from www.siltskimmer.net. So, if anyone knows of any material that has been published on the internet or of any remarks or statements in the core material relating to the Deadlands please inform me. I am also requesting any ideas or suggestions that you might have floating around somewhere. Also, if anyone knows of anything that refers directly or indirectly to terrain in the accessory: Terrors of the Deadland please imake note of it, it's alot of info to sift through. Thanks for any help.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 1:15:59	While I understand that your goal here is to make a map of the Deadlands, what specific kind of material and ideas are you looking for? Filler material for simple place locations, or do you intend to expand with text about said locations? Or to put it another way, do you want to start a group expansion of the dead lands anew, or use Lewis' source material as a base? As far as I know, there is still the mysterious yet-to-be-unveiled (and likely awaiting an epic rules release) Secrets of the Deadlands that Athas.org has tucked under its sleeves. Perhaps with a little persuasion (ether, an old rag, and an unlit room normally work quite well), they'll send off enough of the base material that they have so that you could create a map from it.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 3:54:03	My main objective in creating this map would be to include all of the official sites (those published by TSR and Athas.org). I also want the map to be "DM Friendly" leaving the bulk of it empty terrain. This way the map could be easilly adapted to suite the needs of others. What I am looking for are ideas for a few sites people have such as silt estuarys and obsidian-free islands and the like. If I get a consensus of a particular idea then I would try to include it in the map's design. One idea I like is Gerald Lewis's Chalet Sea. For those not familliar with it, it is basically a ghost sea crossed by ghost ships and the like. As for the upcoming Secrets of the Deadlands, I havent actually thought about it! (Forgot about it may be a more factual statement :D) If SotD's development team have a rough map or a few loose ideas about placements for upcoming sites it would be extremely convenient for me. ;) Of course I am quite capable of upgrading my upcoming map to reflect the SotD material once it is published. Another thing I would like to have, would be any mapping related tidbits that may be hidden in the Terrors of the Dead Lands supplement. I do have this document but I don't relish the idea of sifting through eighty-some-odd pages to dig it out! Hopefully someone more knowledgeable in this regard can point me in the right direction. So! On with the submissions!
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 4:16:20	The following image is a very rough and unfinsihed image to give an idea of what the region may look like. Currently I have yet to include any terrain features. This map incompasses the same amount of territory as the Tyr Region and Beyond map by TSR. :invasion: (Image Removed) The Silt Sea will eventually be spilling from the north-east down onto the plain. I have yet to determine the actually flow of the silt as of yet. As in Gerald Lewis's map I intend to have mountains running through portions of the map as well as a few more chasms and the like. At least half of the plain will be flat, desolate obsidian in order to keep with the idea inherent in the Campaign Setting of desolation. I hope the above image will spur some ideas!
#5 Kamelion Jul 11, 2004 9:10:14	A quick scan of Terrors of the Deadlands turned up a few nuggets, but little in the way of hard geographical locations. Here's a list for your reference anyhow . Deadlands Locations Birthstones – Green Age artifacts that spawn the s’thag zagath. Black Basin – Zombies found here, fed upon by bugdead swarms. Buglands/Southern Deadlands – Home to the Scarlet Wardens and S'thag Zagath. Presumably the capital of the Successor is down there somewhere too. CharnalHouse – Outpost of necromancer Sthonko on site of Battle of Tforkatch River. Reanimation factory and corpse warehouse. Also contained barracks. West of Obsidian Gate. Crunch, The – Enormous wall of chitin, along northern border of the Buglands (it's not, strictly speaking, a wall, but the boards filter won't let me use d!ke ) Dead Thrones – Bugdead insect swarms drone “in enormous clouds between the dead thrones”. Deshentu – Location or name of Grand Vizier? Kank Nests Region – Southern Deadlands region, home to bugdead kanks. Lands of the Disciples – Obsidian Beasts are most common here. The Disciples are clerics of obsidian who believe the obsidian to be a divine force or entity. Nagarvos – Beseiged city, home to mixture of races. Large number of corpses from the siege sent to Charnalhouse. Navel – Once a small, walled compound, built in the shattered ruins of a great city. Heart of Qwith’s research in the Deadlands, it was buried beneath obsidian. The City of 1000 Dead was built over it. Obsidian Tower – Gretch’s stronghold. Olnak – City in Ulyan, south of Small Home. Gnomes lived there. Many of it humans left, answering the call of the Prophet of the Grey Tower (likely Rajaat). Seventh Tree – its seeds are components in the Tree of Unlife spell. Tforkatch River – Battle-site and location of Charnalhouse. Ulyan – Region or nation. Small Home and Olnak are in Ulyan. Bordered by cliffs. Web, The – Region of Buglands, home to insane spiderlike creatures.
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 15:21:35	Thanks for all the nuggets you found Kamelion. Before I go to much furthur, let me say a few things about the size of the Dead Lands. Up to this point on every other map I have found the Obsidian Plain has been massive spreading over great portions of land. Should the Dead Lands be this large? As of right now, the map I have envisioned could almost be considered the Northern Deadlands Region. Eventually I could expand south from it and create the Southern Deadlands region. At that point I would reach the other side of the plain fixing the plain's height at about that as the Known World of Athas. To the west the plain would spill over the cliffs and down onto the Crimson Savanna for a bit. To the east it could extend to encompass an area maybe half the size of the other maps. So if you post some ideas in this thread try and give me an idea as to what you think the size of the Dead Lands should be. Thanks
#7 Kamelion Jul 11, 2004 15:55:58	The material in TotDL certainly suggests a considerable amount of terrain in the southern Deadlands, south of The Crunch. It notes that the undead humanoids of the northern Deadlands are unaware that there are living s'thag zagath, for example, believing the Scarlet Wardens to be the driving force in the Buglands. (As an aside, DSMC2 tells us that Ythri, the lost capital of the Tari, lay to the south of the Tablelands. That might feature in the Deadlands also...)
#8 Pennarin Jul 11, 2004 16:52:44	Originally posted by Kamelion (As an aside, DSMC2 tells us that Ythri, the lost capital of the Tari, lay to the south of the Tablelands. That might feature in the Deadlands also...) Exactly what I wanted to post. :D I suggest taking the image "Athas' Kings Age", on Grummore's site, as an indicator of the extent of the black glass.
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 17:19:54	As most of you are aware obsidian is generally black in color. However, some obsidian is entirely red and others are shades of green. What I want to do is use red obsidian in patches along the southern boundary of my map as a marker that a party is aproaching the Buglands. As of right now, the idea I have is to seperate the Obsidian Plain into two regions. The northern region, which I am making at this time, would be the Dead Lands and the southern region would be the Buglands. This southern region could be characterised by patches of red obsidian to help differentiate it from the stark black Dead Lands. Anyone have any input or ideas pertaining to this thought?
#10 Pennarin Jul 11, 2004 17:30:04	Red obsidian = Scarlet Wardens anyone? Good idea.
#11 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 17:34:02	Pennarin: Red obsidian = Scarlet Wardens anyone? Kamelion: Buglands/Southern Deadlands – Home to the Scarlet Wardens and S'thag Zagath. Actually this works perfectly!
#12 Kamelion Jul 11, 2004 17:50:50	The Scarlet Wardens are actually creatures, specifically undead S'thag Zagath. They are fully written up in TotDL .
#13 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 17:56:23	Ignore my last! Kamelion, you deserve a cookie!
#14 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 22:04:17	Here is the map as I have it now. This map shows the the Obsidian Plain's interelation with the Sea of Silt as I have it now. Any comments or suggestions?
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2004 22:49:03	I'd say to look at the map's potential from a gaming table opint of view. Basically, the PCs shouldn't know specifically when they enter the bug lands. You could easily draw up two versions of the map, one with rough borders for the DM, another without these for the players. Also, its not very likely that territory is very defined amongst the inhabitants of the region anyhow. While it certainly would make the map far more aesthetic, it also makes it less representational.
#16 Pennarin Jul 11, 2004 23:08:32	Originally posted by Kamelion The Scarlet Wardens are actually creatures, specifically undead S'thag Zagath. They are fully written up in TotDL . Its not said why they are partly red in color, or if they were like that in the Green Age. If Secrets of the Dead Land doesn't shine light on the matter, then it'd be good to say the red of living S'thag Zagath is not their natural color but comes from the red obsidian which they absorb/lick/grind & eat/whatever. Scarlet Wardens would be red from being undead S'thag Zagath. Its pure fluff, but its good fluff, at least I think so.
#17 Oninotaki Jul 11, 2004 23:39:12	I think it looks really good so far!
#18 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 12, 2004 2:33:28	Originally posted by Cyrus9a Here is the map as I have it now. This map shows the the Obsidian Plain's interelation with the Sea of Silt as I have it now. Any comments or suggestions? yea. I dunno if there should be silt up in the obsidian. Basically, if I remember correctly from some discussions I've had, or somewhere in ToDL, or something - the obsidian is still growing, slowly. It filled a basin-like area, and that's pretty much why it hasn't gone too much further - the portal to the plane of magma (?) is still alive and active, just buried under the obsidian now, and that obsidian has extended to fill every crevase it could reach. I don't think there'd be any intermingling between the obsidian plains and sea of silt - if there was, the obsidian would be pouring/filling into the sea of silt. Now, if it's doing that, you wouldn't see the sea of silt in the obsidian plains, you'd see the obsidian plains pushing into the sea of silt.
#19 Kamelion Jul 12, 2004 2:33:45	Originally posted by Mach2.5 I'd say to look at the map's potential from a gaming table opint of view. Basically, the PCs shouldn't know specifically when they enter the bug lands. You could easily draw up two versions of the map, one with rough borders for the DM, another without these for the players. Also, its not very likely that territory is very defined amongst the inhabitants of the region anyhow. While it certainly would make the map far more aesthetic, it also makes it less representational. I am only going from a preliminary reading of TotDL here and don't have any data besides that, but the impression I got from the reading was that there are some well-defined borders between the northern Deadlands and the Buglands. The Crunch is one that comes to mind - it's described as being an enormous wall of chitin several miles long, made from the bodies of countless bugdead. I got the distinct impression that there is continual conflict between the territories of the bugdead and the humanoid undead, almost on the level of nations at war and that the warring factions continually patrol the borders of their territory. I was quite surprised to read this kind of thing as I had always assumed the deadlands to be somewhat less defined as well. Anyway, just my 2 bits . The sample Thinking Zombie in TotDL has the best details on this stuff.
#20 Kamelion Jul 12, 2004 2:39:27	I like the idea of having the silt overflowing the obsidian. As I see it, silt moves faster and more freely than obdsidian and so it is quite normal for it to blow inland or even swell and overflow onto the obsidian. The obsidian would also be slowly flowing into the silt, but as soon as it hit the silt, it would sink. The only obsidian you would see would then be those piles that had grown large enough to protrude above the silt, forming the little islands you see in the map. Either way you look at it, the map gives a good representation of how it might appear. Plus obsidian islands surrounded by silt are kewl and should therefore be encouraged at every available opportunity.
#21 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 3:09:14	Xlorepdarkhelm: yea. I dunno if there should be silt up in the obsidian. Basically, if I remember correctly from some discussions I've had, or somewhere in ToDL, or something - the obsidian is still growing, slowly. It filled a basin-like area, and that's pretty much why it hasn't gone too much further - the portal to the plane of magma (?) is still alive and active, just buried under the obsidian now, and that obsidian has extended to fill every crevase it could reach. I don't think there'd be any intermingling between the obsidian plains and sea of silt - if there was, the obsidian would be pouring/filling into the sea of silt. Now, if it's doing that, you wouldn't see the sea of silt in the obsidian plains, you'd see the obsidian plains pushing into the sea of silt. Thanks for the input X. Let me go through this abit and see what I can make of it.... The first item I want to bring to mind is the Sunrise Sea. From the published maps of Athas we can see that the Sea of Silt extends southward. The Dead Lands are also in the south and considering the size of the obsidian plain I would assume that the two should meet. At the time of the obsidian plains creation the Sea of Silt was the Sunrise Sea and magma should have poured into it. I know the map I supplied is rather small but if you look closely you will sea that the silt is actually in massive fjord-type crevasses. The silt is not anywhere spilling onto the plain. The reason I made it this way was to show where this violent event took place. The water would have cooled the lava at an extremely fast rate and stopped the continual flow in that direction. Eventually the Sunrise see degenerates into the Sea of Silt and it spills into the fjords. My next thought is about the continual flow of magma. I actually wasn't aware of this and it brings some interesting possibilities to mind such as gorges filled with lava and the like. My thought is that if the magma is still flowing then it would be continually pushing out through a channel that it formed over the centuries in a specific direction. In my mind, south! Otherwise the magma would push its way into the Tablelands. So, I actually don't really have an area of intermixing of obsidian and silt, just an area where the silt has filled in next to the Deadlands. What do ya think?
#22 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 3:09:18	Remember! If you have any input please give it!
#23 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 12, 2004 13:08:49	Originally posted by Kamelion I like the idea of having the silt overflowing the obsidian. As I see it, silt moves faster and more freely than obdsidian and so it is quite normal for it to blow inland or even swell and overflow onto the obsidian. The obsidian would also be slowly flowing into the silt, but as soon as it hit the silt, it would sink. The only obsidian you would see would then be those piles that had grown large enough to protrude above the silt, forming the little islands you see in the map. Either way you look at it, the map gives a good representation of how it might appear. Plus obsidian islands surrounded by silt are kewl and should therefore be encouraged at every available opportunity. That all is very valid points. I'd say that then, the obsidian islands should possibly protrude a bit farther into the silt.
#24 nytcrawlr Jul 12, 2004 15:51:09	Originally posted by Kamelion I but the impression I got from the reading was that there are some well-defined borders between the northern Deadlands and the Buglands. The Crunch is one that comes to mind - it's described as being an enormous wall of chitin several miles long, made from the bodies of countless bugdead. I got the distinct impression that there is continual conflict between the territories of the bugdead and the humanoid undead, almost on the level of nations at war and that the warring factions continually patrol the borders of their territory. You would be correct. Something that caught me off guard too, since I didn't expect this accessory to be laid out as well as it was.
#25 nytcrawlr Jul 12, 2004 16:02:37	Originally posted by Kamelion I like the idea of having the silt overflowing the obsidian. As I see it, silt moves faster and more freely than obdsidian and so it is quite normal for it to blow inland or even swell and overflow onto the obsidian. Except I've seen nothing in SotDL that would state this, nor is there anything in there stating that silt has breached the obsidian borders, if anything it's doing like Xlorep mentioned and slowly expanding to the silt sea, just hasn't filled the "sea" floor and surfaced yet.
#26 zombiegleemax Jul 16, 2004 2:17:23	I just found this little tidbit in the DS Timeline: Shortly after an accident of unknown origins opens a gate to the Inner Planes, and obsidian flows across the land for hundreds of miles in each direction until the gate is closed by the Seventh Tree. From what this says the portal is closed and magma is not still pouring into the material plane. It also gives me the impression that the entire Obsidian Plain is no less than 400 miles wide and no more than maybe twice that. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this issue?
#27 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 16, 2004 2:43:47	Originally posted by Cyrus9a I just found this little tidbit in the DS Timeline: From what this says the portal is closed and magma is not still pouring into the material plane. It also gives me the impression that the entire Obsidian Plain is no less than 400 miles wide and no more than maybe twice that. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this issue? Yes... err.... that information is not quite accurate compared to things like SoDL. Unfortunately, SoDL's not released, but if you are wanting to get information, I'd actually seriously see if Athas.org could slip you a copy of what there is, for you to review it, and use info from it to help build your map. I can't guarentee it will work - in fact, there's a real strong chance they won't be even able to give you a copy of it - but SoDL is all kinds of filled with useful information you could use.
#28 zombiegleemax Jul 20, 2004 2:09:08	http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/2549/dindex.htm This Page has a lot of material concerning the Dead Lands. I hope it helps.
#29 nytcrawlr Jul 20, 2004 14:48:19	Originally posted by CyricFirehands http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/2549/dindex.htm This Page has a lot of material concerning the Dead Lands. I hope it helps. It's not bad, but it's got some flaws. Probably someone that at least had partial access to SotDL.
#30 nytcrawlr Jul 22, 2004 19:15:32	Originally posted by Cyrus9a I just found this little tidbit in the DS Timeline: From what this says the portal is closed and magma is not still pouring into the material plane. It also gives me the impression that the entire Obsidian Plain is no less than 400 miles wide and no more than maybe twice that. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this issue? Well, after reading the first bits of SotDL it specifically states that the obsidian plane is more than 200 miles across if that helps any.
#31 zombiegleemax Jul 22, 2004 21:32:46	Great info Nyt. On the Tyr Region map, the Dead Lands are 400 miles from east to west (roughly). If SotDL states that the plain is more than 200 miles across, I am going to assume that is from north to south to keep both the map and SotDL true. If SotDL says they are more than 200 miles across instead of more than 300 or 400 then I assume that they are no less than 200 and no greater than 300 miles from north to south. The Dead Lands map is my current "big project".
#32 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 14:01:10	Why not just release the Secrets of the Deadlands so that ALL DS fans can enjoy it. Athas.org doesnt seem to be able to or willing to release this info they've had it for over 7 years now!! Please do something!!!
#33 Pennarin Jul 24, 2004 14:40:57	Originally posted by Anorien Ssirinthil Why not just release the Secrets of the Deadlands so that ALL DS fans can enjoy it. Athas.org doesnt seem to be able to or willing to release this info they've had it for over 7 years now!! Please do something!!! If you read the board a little more or make searches for "sotdl" you'll see that it will be released but that athas.org is waiting to complete DS epic rules (including advanced beings) to publish it. Releasing the 2E version is no longer possible as WotC gave the mandate that every DS document previously unreleased was to be first adapted to 3E before its release, hence the creation of athas.org
#34 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 18:05:17	my apoligies then. Hurry it up!!!
#35 nytcrawlr Jul 25, 2004 14:56:32	Originally posted by Anorien Ssirinthil my apoligies then. Hurry it up!!! I've also been trying, for at least a year now, to get it released in it's original form till we can get a conversion out. So far nothing. I'm going to keep trying though. Don't see the issue when there is no money to be made off of it and there's going to be a conversion done anyways.