Or is he just an Ogre Magi or an Ogre that knows how to look after himself and his appetites?
Originally posted by ferratus
Isn't there an Ogre Titan in the Minotaur Trilogy? He is described as being prettier and more intelligent than the rest.
Or is he just an Ogre Magi or an Ogre that knows how to look after himself and his appetites?
He's the latter, since I'd wager that a 15 foot tall dark blue-skinned, pointy-eared, yellow-eyed, black-haired being of immense beauty would have garnered more attention than the character did in the novel.
[conspiracy theory]
i suspect that someone in wotc is trying to eliminate all references to the fifth age, as evinced by the destruction of the big dragons, ogre titans, and now sorcerors. next we'll see a book about mass conversions of mystics, mark my words.
[/conspiracy theory]
Originally posted by talinthas
[conspiracy theory]
i suspect that someone in wotc is trying to eliminate all references to the fifth age, as evinced by the destruction of the big dragons, ogre titans, and now sorcerors. next we'll see a book about mass conversions of mystics, mark my words.
[/conspiracy theory]
I generally find that conspiracy theories don't hold much water.
Yes, things are changing. They're changing in a way to where elements from both the 4th age and 5th age coexist. This will bring conflict. And yes, some sorcerers will become wizards and yes, some mystics will become clerics. This does not equal a total and complete conversion, though.
The storyline is also being moved forward. It needs to in order to keep the setting fresh and vibrant. The dragon overlords have had their time. Maybe 3 of them are dead, but there remains two others. There's also several lesser dragonlords as well.
Yet despite all this, many 5th age elements remain. Sovereign Press' products, all of which must be approved by WotC, have included a fair amount of 5th age stuff. Note that their first DL product was Age of Mortals, and not War of the Lance. Notice all the 5th age materials in the Bestiary of Krynn. Note who the end villain is in Key of Destiny.
The return of wizards and clerics to the setting and a change of story focus does not equal the end of the 5th age. Last I checked, it's still the Age of Mortals.
However, WotC and Sovereign Press have decided to go into the future with as many of the old fans as they could. They are going to please nobody, as everyone will wistfully think about what might have been. However, if they work on creating a viable campaign world then eventually there will be new ideas to excite, ideas that couldn't have happened without the bizarre series of events that have plagued the dragonlance line. With good stewardship, the line 10 years from now might be an unscarred and holistic place again.
I think the only way we can really be worried about the 5th Age disappearing is if the WotL sourcebook sells obscenely well. That might precipitate a "Classic" Dragonlance gaming line. If that sells better than the Age of Mortals stuff, well I think it would be foolish for Sovereign Press not to concentrate their resources there.
Anyway, I think the best solution to getting what you really want is to write up new stuff. I'm certainly not the most popular guy around here, but I know things I've said and written about have definately had an influence. If the sorcerers and mystics are going to have a presence, it requires a grassroots to show how they can be incorporated in this new world.
Eventually, if you are particularly fussy about the direction of the campaign world, you may decide to take Dragonlance elements and start from scratch. After all, If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. So I'll test the waters by jotting down ideas for "Krynn 2".
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I generally find that conspiracy theories don't hold much water.
Yet, this is a bucket with few holes.
Yes, things are changing. They're changing in a way to where elements from both the 4th age and 5th age coexist.
Well, apparently I've been fooled then.
What's happened so far with alot of the material since WoS isn't getting the stuff to "coexist", it's rewriting/retconning/changing to a large degree.
Note that their first DL product was Age of Mortals, and not War of the Lance.
Note that only now is the Age of Mortals beginning, according to one particular set of novels.
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
I just find it weird about the ogre titan thing, I mean, the 2nd book in the minotaur trilogy has so many instances where Golgren is looking at the old "true" ogre pictures, always wishing he was one, it's like noone has heard of the ogre titan process, even though it distinctly says in Age of Mortals that the ruler of Bloten-Chief Donnag was approached by Duaroth(the Titan creator) in the months preceeding the War of Souls. It also says that Maldred(remember the Dhamon trilogy) tried to dissuade the chief-also his father from undergoing the process, but he did it anyways.... Now he is "Tall, inhumanly beautiful, & and invigorated with raw power.... which is definatly NOT the impression I got the Minotaur Wars Trilogy... I don't think anyone filled Richard A. Knaak in on the Titans yet...
If i'm not mistaken the ogre titan powers fade after a certain amount of time and the ritual has to be performed again and I believe all/most of the ogre titans reverted back to their normal state and worse. I havn't read the 2nd Minotaur book yet but maybee he wants to become that titan again i'm not sure.
Originally posted by nethru
If i'm not mistaken the ogre titan powers fade after a certain amount of time and the ritual has to be performed again and I believe all/most of the ogre titans reverted back to their normal state and worse. I havn't read the 2nd Minotaur book yet but maybee he wants to become that titan again i'm not sure.
When ogre titans lose their powers, they don't just revert back to normal ogres, they turn into degenerates that are significantly more mishapen and stupid than normal ogres. These degenerates are so radically different from normal ogres that it would be obvious to anyone looking at them. This alone shatters any concept of Golgren being a former titan.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I generally find that conspiracy theories don't hold much water.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
Yet, this is a bucket with few holes.
And pouring oil on troubled water never helps.
Originally posted by jonesy
What exactly was Guyvir from the short story Tactics? I thought he had a titanesque appearance, but for his small stature (for an ogre).
Originally posted by silvanthalas
Yet, this is a bucket with few holes.
And pouring oil on troubled water never helps.
Guyviy was 1/2 elf and 1/2 ogre. ;) I think.
Originally posted by iltharanos
And pouring oil on troubled water never helps.
Guyviy was 1/2 elf and 1/2 ogre. ;) I think. [/b]
I always thought that equaled a goblin...
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
I always thought that equaled a goblin...
Which is why I asked what he was exactly.
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
I always thought that equaled a goblin...
Well, it does say in the DM screen booklet that one theory is that Elf-High Ogre (Irda) crossbreeding, coupled with the mutating effect of the Graygem resulted in goblins.
So, while Elf-Irda unions have been covered (sort of), there is no theory about Elf-Ogre (big brutish thug) matings and the characteristics of the product of such a union.
Originally posted by jonesy
Which is why I asked what he was exactly.
Yeah, I just checked. Guyvir himself says that his mother was an elf and his father was an ogre (big brutish variety).
Originally posted by iltharanos
Yeah, I just checked. Guyvir himself says that his mother was an elf and his father was an ogre (big brutish variety).
Still doesn't mean that he was telling the truth. After all he was taking the Solamnics for a ride (pun intended) anyway.
If we wanted goblins to be the result of Ogre/elf pairings, shouldn't ogre-human pairings be hobgoblins?
Originally posted by ferratus
I see no reason myself why half-elf ogres couldn't be smaller, more graceful ogres with some elven mojo. After all, half-human ogres are smaller, more skilled and adaptable ogres.
True. I suppose I've never been comfortable with the idea of non-human races being able to crossbreed with one another. Why? I'm hard-pressed to say ... maybe because it's messy?
After all, what in the world do you get if you have a half human half elf mate with a half human half ogre? What about a Half-elf and a goblin's child marrying a half ogre half dwarf? What do you get when a Half kender half gnome mates with a half elf half dwarf? I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.
Originally posted by iltharanos
After all, what in the world do you get if you have a half human half elf mate with a half human half ogre?
A half-human with a weird complexion of course.
What about a Half-elf and a goblin's child marrying a half ogre half dwarf?
Dwelfgobgre? Duh.
What do you get when a Half kender half gnome mates with a half elf half dwarf?
"I see you have been admiring my bow. Isn't it nifty? I made it myself you know. It digs rock, picks pockets and hits the bullseye everytime. I wonder why you call it a bullseye anyway, I mean I've never seen any bulls around when it happens. But I guess that might be because my beard always gets stuck in the bow machinery and prevents me from seeing it. Hmm, maybe I should improve on the design. Maybe add some bright warning flags and an axehead or two while I'm at it..."
Originally posted by jonesy
A half-human with a weird complexion of course.
Dwelfgobgre? Duh.
"I see you have been admiring my bow. Isn't it nifty? I made it myself you know. It digs rock, picks pockets and hits the bullseye everytime. I wonder why you call it a bullseye anyway, I mean I've never seen any bulls around when it happens. But I guess that might be because my beard always gets stuck in the bow machinery and prevents me from seeing it. Hmm, maybe I should improve on the design. Maybe add some bright warning flags and an axehead or two while I'm at it..."
Looks like in the latter case, the kender trait is dominant. ;)
Originally posted by iltharanos
True. I suppose I've never been comfortable with the idea of non-human races being able to crossbreed with one another. Why? I'm hard-pressed to say ... maybe because it's messy?
Oh, its very messy. So I completely agree with you there.
The way I'm handling it in my alternate DLCS is to make a "half-breed" race. This will handle humans crossbreeding with most other ECL 0 humanoid races that are the result of human mutation brought about by the greygem. Y'know Dwarves, kender, gnomes, etc.
Then I'll do a half-ogre and a half-elf and call it quits. Basically I'll assume that elves, humans and ogres can breed with each other. I'll also assume that elves, humans and ogres can breed with their descendant offshoot species. Other than that, genetic drift has made it impossible.
After all, if I don't come up with rules for bizarre cross species, I don't have to worry about it, right? ;)
So no elf/dwarves or goblin/dwarves. No human/goblins, but a ogre/goblin is a possibility. Maybe do a "brute template" for half-ogre monstrous humanoids, and a "elfin" half-elf template for half-elf whatever their descendant species class is. I'm leaning towards fey, methinks.