Gazetteer V - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Gazetteer V

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Mortepierre
Jul 12, 2004 6:38:04 OK, got my hands on it today and it's sweet

That said, I was a bit surprised by the map of the Shadow Rift (on page 100). Mine is blank. Well, grey actually but the point is: it doesn't show anything within the Rift (neighboring countries are ok).

Is it just me or has everyone the same problem?
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 12, 2004 9:42:28 Yes, mine too. I just finished reading the Keening Section, so I haven't got into the Shadow Rift yet. My understanding is that "S" did not actually enter the Rift herself, and relied on the accounts of others who had been there. I suspect that's the storyline reason for no map. Maybe someone who has read it can confirm? I'll probably read that part tonight.

Oh, and BTW, this is the first S&S/Ravenloft product that I can recall that hasn't had a slew of distracting typos. I've often been critical of the editing in the past, so I'll compliment the editor on what I have read so far. I'll only seen 4 very trivial typos (the most significant being the word 'late' where it was supposed to be 'lake', and the phase 'and undead' where it should have been 'an undead'). Good job & much appreciated!
#3
The_Jester
Jul 12, 2004 14:46:25 Yeah, it looks like they haven't hired anyone to make new maps since... well, the publication of the Campaign Setting and all the maps have just been reprinted from there.

Nice book otherwise...
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 25, 2004 11:19:12 Yes,great book series
#5
zombiegleemax
Jul 27, 2004 7:22:58 The tepest bit is a bit weak.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jul 27, 2004 15:55:35
Originally posted by Grimfondle
The tepest bit is a bit weak.

Care to elaborate?
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2004 7:57:47
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
Care to elaborate?

Not sure what I really expected to be honest, certainly more studies of haggishness as the three sisters are supposed to have lots of daughters, and perhaps more study of their (hag)magic. Reflections of their curse might have been emphasized more, I would imagine the sisters reaction to beauty to be more extreeme, but the locals to celebrate beauty in pageants. Likewise there could have been problems with illegitimate off-spring in general.

Ho Hum.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 29, 2004 10:26:16 About haggish magic, I think it's very well covered in the Van Richten Compedium vol. III and the R3E Campaign Setting which updates the Hag rules to 3ED.

I have yet to get the new Gaz though.
#9
mortavius
Jul 29, 2004 11:45:56 Actually, there was ONE good map in the Gaz books. The map of Barovia had a ton of extra stuff on it. I don't know why they didn't incorporate that into the rest of the Gaz's and simply copied what was on the main map though...
#10
zombiegleemax
Aug 08, 2004 10:34:04 One Laughs aloud. Why would there be a map of the Shadow Rift? Who would create it, Who would believe such a map ? My party descovered this to their own troubles. The Shadow rift by its very nature is Fey therefore could be incorpereal or corpereal dependent on it's mood, Find the Clockmaker he may tell you, but what your sanity will be like thereafter one can only imagine (Running and screaming)

Maybe it is the Stronghold of the Dark Powers or maybe it's the spring of Ravenloft, or another option maybe its alpha and omega.

In short its what The DM deems it too be within its twisted warts and all format
#11
Mortepierre
Aug 09, 2004 8:05:23
Originally posted by LicheHazel
One Laughs aloud. Why would there be a map of the Shadow Rift? Who would create it, Who would believe such a map ? My party descovered this to their own troubles. The Shadow rift by its very nature is Fey therefore could be incorpereal or corpereal dependent on it's mood, Find the Clockmaker he may tell you, but what your sanity will be like thereafter one can only imagine (Running and screaming)

Maybe it is the Stronghold of the Dark Powers or maybe it's the spring of Ravenloft, or another option maybe its alpha and omega.

In short its what The DM deems it too be within its twisted warts and all format

Why? Because the Gazetteers are about helping a DM understand RL better and providing him with the tools to run a successful campaign.

If they could make a new map of Barovia with all the new locations on it, why couldn't they do the same with the other domains? It's not as if a DM is going to show it to his players anyway (at least not if he is smart).

Moreover, if they could make a map for the original module describing the Shadow Rift, they could at least have included a copy of it in Gaz V rather than the grey map we got instead.

If all they do is copy/paste the relevant part of the RLPH map, then why bother at all?

We need the kind of maps the Mordent Cartographic Society produces.
#12
zombiegleemax
Aug 11, 2004 14:13:12 Also, in Gaz II there was the map of Il Aluk for Necropolis, which clearly was not copied from any 3rd edition RL product. Judging from that, the map from The Shadow Rift should have been included.
#13
Mortepierre
Aug 11, 2004 14:24:49 Incidentally, I am surprised no one brought up the event described on page 82. The guy is obviously the Gentleman Caller but the intriguing part is the reference to his "5 children".

Anyone got an idea about that?

Malocchio Aderre is certainly one, and Vigo Drakov could be another, but what of the others?
#14
rotipher
Aug 12, 2004 23:52:50 Given his "bad seed" backstory, I'd guess Dominic d'Honaire might actually be a plausible candidate for one of the Caller's five "children", assuming that his fiendish genes are suppressed physically and magnified mentally. Certainly, incubus ancestry would explain why ol' Dominic had such a dirty mind as a little kid!
#15
zombiegleemax
Aug 13, 2004 6:59:14 HYKSOSA!
#16
zombiegleemax
Aug 13, 2004 13:59:36 Do they have to be real demon-spawn? The connection to the human child made in the conversation hints in that direction, but is it not also possible that the GC is speaking metaphorically of his pet projects (Van Richten's death, the recovery of the Sword of Arak by Loht [even though that would be only in the Keening part, hence later]etc)? What do you think?
#17
rotipher
Aug 13, 2004 14:11:59
Originally posted by The MadStepDad
HYKSOSA!

I'm not sure that S ever actually mentioned him in her notes, did she? *Azalin* did, but since the GC was snooping through S's raw research notes, not the finished Doomsday Gazetteers, the comments from Azalin wouldn't have been in them.
#18
zombiegleemax
Aug 13, 2004 21:59:19 Here is my opinnion:
Mallochio, Vigo, the Jongleur, Chezna, and for the number 5 I don´t have any candidate yet.
#19
Mortepierre
Aug 14, 2004 3:15:40
Originally posted by Prof Spender
Do they have to be real demon-spawn? The connection to the human child made in the conversation hints in that direction, but is it not also possible that the GC is speaking metaphorically of his pet projects (Van Richten's death, the recovery of the Sword of Arak by Loht [even though that would be only in the Keening part, hence later]etc)? What do you think?

Well, at first, I thought he was talking of darklords which he had personally helped "create". However, when one makes a list of the darklords covered so far in the Gazetteers, there is a little problem. To qualify as the "father" of "native" darklords (of which there aren't that many), the gentleman caller would have to be one of the eldest Outsider stuck in RL given some of these native darklords are already second-generation. Not impossible but difficult to believe.

But, hey, in RL anything goes...
#20
zombiegleemax
Aug 14, 2004 9:07:09 I don't know how accurate this is, but my impression has been that S is sending away her notes for each volume of the Gazetteers as she finishes them. So, when the (I assume) Gentleman Caller says "within (S's) notes I recognize no less than five of them", I believe that he is referring to just her notes on Nova Vaasa and Tepest. In light of that, I think the "children" he is referring to are the darklords, in this case Tristen Hiregaard, The Lady of the Lake, and the three Mindefisk sisters. Calling the darklords his children places the Gentleman Caller somewhat closer in league with the Dark Powers that I would have previously imagined, and I recognize that he has more than enough actual children kicking around the Realm of Dread that he doesn't need to resort to metaphor to discuss a great many. Nonetheless, that's how the passage reads to me.
#21
rotipher
Aug 14, 2004 14:00:10 She sends away the completed Gazetteers, but my guess is that S compiles those from her accumulated field notes. Azalin doesn't need to read her day-by-day travel diary, just the highlights and summaries of genuinely useful information; most likely, S retains the "rough drafts" so she can cross-check her past information if necessary (e.g. when backtracking through countries previously explored). So she'd've had her first-draft notes on the previous Gaz volumes with her ... although I'm surprised she didn't secure them better against snoopers, given the rather covert nature of her commission from the lich! (Maybe that's the *real* reason Az seems so ticked off at her, this time around...? Because she let some sleazeball incubus sweet-talk her into blowing her cover?)
#22
Mortepierre
Aug 16, 2004 12:10:49 The text on page 81 states "..he turned the final page of my current notes with his free hand. My other folios and notes were stacked on the table."

So, I think it's safe to say the Gentleman Caller (if that's him) had access to ALL S.'s notes.
#23
zombiegleemax
Aug 16, 2004 12:42:31 My bad
#24
zombiegleemax
Aug 18, 2004 17:30:36 It seems possible that the GC could be talking about his plots rather than true children but since he does have real "kids" in RL I tend to think he really does have 5 out there that we've seen.

Malochio & Vigo are givens. After reading Gaz V I have to confess I've been thinking again about the Mindfisk sisters. Maybe as candidates.

They show up "out of the blue" as infants, resist being killed by a father who doesn't want them, possibly steal the vitality of the mother who dote on them and bloom into extremely beautiful women. They're wicked enough to conspire to kill travelers, steal their gold and feed the remains to their father and brothers. Ultimately they're willing to plot against each other to get what they want (seduce a stranger to have him take them away from the farm).

Sounds like they could be decendants of the GC, possibly their blooming into hags overrides/stands in for overt fiendish characteristics? On the other hand the GC would have had to sire them before entering RL - though possibly the abduction of the sisters by the mists was how the GC learned of RL to begin with.

Anyone up on the timeslines know if there are refrences to the GC before Tepest appeared in the Core?

-Eric Gorman
#25
Mortepierre
Aug 19, 2004 2:50:47
Originally posted by HvF
Anyone up on the timeslines know if there are refrences to the GC before Tepest appeared in the Core?

Good question.

Tepest "appeared" in 691.

Isolde (the GC nemesis) appeared in 740.

John Mangrum places the first historical appearance of the GC in 734 when the Pipes of Mordent were created (and that one is just a hypothesis)

Even his well-known child (Malocchio) wasn't born before 747.

Hmm .. he could have been around earlier but to prove it seems difficult

On the other hand, there were other fiends around that could have had kids of their own...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mortepierre Jul 12, 2004 6:38:04	OK, got my hands on it today and it's sweet That said, I was a bit surprised by the map of the Shadow Rift (on page 100). Mine is blank. Well, grey actually but the point is: it doesn't show anything within the Rift (neighboring countries are ok). Is it just me or has everyone the same problem?
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 9:42:28	Yes, mine too. I just finished reading the Keening Section, so I haven't got into the Shadow Rift yet. My understanding is that "S" did not actually enter the Rift herself, and relied on the accounts of others who had been there. I suspect that's the storyline reason for no map. Maybe someone who has read it can confirm? I'll probably read that part tonight. Oh, and BTW, this is the first S&S/Ravenloft product that I can recall that hasn't had a slew of distracting typos. I've often been critical of the editing in the past, so I'll compliment the editor on what I have read so far. I'll only seen 4 very trivial typos (the most significant being the word 'late' where it was supposed to be 'lake', and the phase 'and undead' where it should have been 'an undead'). Good job & much appreciated!
#3 The_Jester Jul 12, 2004 14:46:25	Yeah, it looks like they haven't hired anyone to make new maps since... well, the publication of the Campaign Setting and all the maps have just been reprinted from there. Nice book otherwise...
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 25, 2004 11:19:12	Yes,great book series
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 7:22:58	The tepest bit is a bit weak.
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 27, 2004 15:55:35	Originally posted by Grimfondle The tepest bit is a bit weak. Care to elaborate?
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2004 7:57:47	Originally posted by Writer of Stuff Care to elaborate? Not sure what I really expected to be honest, certainly more studies of haggishness as the three sisters are supposed to have lots of daughters, and perhaps more study of their (hag)magic. Reflections of their curse might have been emphasized more, I would imagine the sisters reaction to beauty to be more extreeme, but the locals to celebrate beauty in pageants. Likewise there could have been problems with illegitimate off-spring in general. Ho Hum.
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 29, 2004 10:26:16	About haggish magic, I think it's very well covered in the Van Richten Compedium vol. III and the R3E Campaign Setting which updates the Hag rules to 3ED. I have yet to get the new Gaz though.
#9 mortavius Jul 29, 2004 11:45:56	Actually, there was ONE good map in the Gaz books. The map of Barovia had a ton of extra stuff on it. I don't know why they didn't incorporate that into the rest of the Gaz's and simply copied what was on the main map though...
#10 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2004 10:34:04	One Laughs aloud. Why would there be a map of the Shadow Rift? Who would create it, Who would believe such a map ? My party descovered this to their own troubles. The Shadow rift by its very nature is Fey therefore could be incorpereal or corpereal dependent on it's mood, Find the Clockmaker he may tell you, but what your sanity will be like thereafter one can only imagine (Running and screaming) Maybe it is the Stronghold of the Dark Powers or maybe it's the spring of Ravenloft, or another option maybe its alpha and omega. In short its what The DM deems it too be within its twisted warts and all format
#11 Mortepierre Aug 09, 2004 8:05:23	Originally posted by LicheHazel One Laughs aloud. Why would there be a map of the Shadow Rift? Who would create it, Who would believe such a map ? My party descovered this to their own troubles. The Shadow rift by its very nature is Fey therefore could be incorpereal or corpereal dependent on it's mood, Find the Clockmaker he may tell you, but what your sanity will be like thereafter one can only imagine (Running and screaming) Maybe it is the Stronghold of the Dark Powers or maybe it's the spring of Ravenloft, or another option maybe its alpha and omega. In short its what The DM deems it too be within its twisted warts and all format Why? Because the Gazetteers are about helping a DM understand RL better and providing him with the tools to run a successful campaign. If they could make a new map of Barovia with all the new locations on it, why couldn't they do the same with the other domains? It's not as if a DM is going to show it to his players anyway (at least not if he is smart). Moreover, if they could make a map for the original module describing the Shadow Rift, they could at least have included a copy of it in Gaz V rather than the grey map we got instead. If all they do is copy/paste the relevant part of the RLPH map, then why bother at all? We need the kind of maps the Mordent Cartographic Society produces.
#12 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 14:13:12	Also, in Gaz II there was the map of Il Aluk for Necropolis, which clearly was not copied from any 3rd edition RL product. Judging from that, the map from The Shadow Rift should have been included.
#13 Mortepierre Aug 11, 2004 14:24:49	Incidentally, I am surprised no one brought up the event described on page 82. The guy is obviously the Gentleman Caller but the intriguing part is the reference to his "5 children". Anyone got an idea about that? Malocchio Aderre is certainly one, and Vigo Drakov could be another, but what of the others?
#14 rotipher Aug 12, 2004 23:52:50	Given his "bad seed" backstory, I'd guess Dominic d'Honaire might actually be a plausible candidate for one of the Caller's five "children", assuming that his fiendish genes are suppressed physically and magnified mentally. Certainly, incubus ancestry would explain why ol' Dominic had such a dirty mind as a little kid!
#15 zombiegleemax Aug 13, 2004 6:59:14	HYKSOSA!
#16 zombiegleemax Aug 13, 2004 13:59:36	Do they have to be real demon-spawn? The connection to the human child made in the conversation hints in that direction, but is it not also possible that the GC is speaking metaphorically of his pet projects (Van Richten's death, the recovery of the Sword of Arak by Loht [even though that would be only in the Keening part, hence later]etc)? What do you think?
#17 rotipher Aug 13, 2004 14:11:59	Originally posted by The MadStepDad HYKSOSA! I'm not sure that S ever actually mentioned him in her notes, did she? Azalin did, but since the GC was snooping through S's raw research notes, not the finished Doomsday Gazetteers, the comments from Azalin wouldn't have been in them.
#18 zombiegleemax Aug 13, 2004 21:59:19	Here is my opinnion: Mallochio, Vigo, the Jongleur, Chezna, and for the number 5 I don´t have any candidate yet.
#19 Mortepierre Aug 14, 2004 3:15:40	Originally posted by Prof Spender Do they have to be real demon-spawn? The connection to the human child made in the conversation hints in that direction, but is it not also possible that the GC is speaking metaphorically of his pet projects (Van Richten's death, the recovery of the Sword of Arak by Loht [even though that would be only in the Keening part, hence later]etc)? What do you think? Well, at first, I thought he was talking of darklords which he had personally helped "create". However, when one makes a list of the darklords covered so far in the Gazetteers, there is a little problem. To qualify as the "father" of "native" darklords (of which there aren't that many), the gentleman caller would have to be one of the eldest Outsider stuck in RL given some of these native darklords are already second-generation. Not impossible but difficult to believe. But, hey, in RL anything goes...
#20 zombiegleemax Aug 14, 2004 9:07:09	I don't know how accurate this is, but my impression has been that S is sending away her notes for each volume of the Gazetteers as she finishes them. So, when the (I assume) Gentleman Caller says "within (S's) notes I recognize no less than five of them", I believe that he is referring to just her notes on Nova Vaasa and Tepest. In light of that, I think the "children" he is referring to are the darklords, in this case Tristen Hiregaard, The Lady of the Lake, and the three Mindefisk sisters. Calling the darklords his children places the Gentleman Caller somewhat closer in league with the Dark Powers that I would have previously imagined, and I recognize that he has more than enough actual children kicking around the Realm of Dread that he doesn't need to resort to metaphor to discuss a great many. Nonetheless, that's how the passage reads to me.
#21 rotipher Aug 14, 2004 14:00:10	She sends away the completed Gazetteers, but my guess is that S compiles those from her accumulated field notes. Azalin doesn't need to read her day-by-day travel diary, just the highlights and summaries of genuinely useful information; most likely, S retains the "rough drafts" so she can cross-check her past information if necessary (e.g. when backtracking through countries previously explored). So she'd've had her first-draft notes on the previous Gaz volumes with her ... although I'm surprised she didn't secure them better against snoopers, given the rather covert nature of her commission from the lich! (Maybe that's the real reason Az seems so ticked off at her, this time around...? Because she let some sleazeball incubus sweet-talk her into blowing her cover?)
#22 Mortepierre Aug 16, 2004 12:10:49	The text on page 81 states "..he turned the final page of my current notes with his free hand. My other folios and notes were stacked on the table." So, I think it's safe to say the Gentleman Caller (if that's him) had access to ALL S.'s notes.
#23 zombiegleemax Aug 16, 2004 12:42:31	My bad
#24 zombiegleemax Aug 18, 2004 17:30:36	It seems possible that the GC could be talking about his plots rather than true children but since he does have real "kids" in RL I tend to think he really does have 5 out there that we've seen. Malochio & Vigo are givens. After reading Gaz V I have to confess I've been thinking again about the Mindfisk sisters. Maybe as candidates. They show up "out of the blue" as infants, resist being killed by a father who doesn't want them, possibly steal the vitality of the mother who dote on them and bloom into extremely beautiful women. They're wicked enough to conspire to kill travelers, steal their gold and feed the remains to their father and brothers. Ultimately they're willing to plot against each other to get what they want (seduce a stranger to have him take them away from the farm). Sounds like they could be decendants of the GC, possibly their blooming into hags overrides/stands in for overt fiendish characteristics? On the other hand the GC would have had to sire them before entering RL - though possibly the abduction of the sisters by the mists was how the GC learned of RL to begin with. Anyone up on the timeslines know if there are refrences to the GC before Tepest appeared in the Core? -Eric Gorman
#25 Mortepierre Aug 19, 2004 2:50:47	Originally posted by HvF Anyone up on the timeslines know if there are refrences to the GC before Tepest appeared in the Core? Good question. Tepest "appeared" in 691. Isolde (the GC nemesis) appeared in 740. John Mangrum places the first historical appearance of the GC in 734 when the Pipes of Mordent were created (and that one is just a hypothesis) Even his well-known child (Malocchio) wasn't born before 747. Hmm .. he could have been around earlier but to prove it seems difficult On the other hand, there were other fiends around that could have had kids of their own...