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Planar substitution levels

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
factol_rhys_dup
Jul 12, 2004 12:26:16 I feel that these shouldn't be included in a planar campaign. They really just give Prime characters an advantage fighting planar creatures, giving them ways to avoid spell resistance, damage reduction, and energy resistance. Just so that it's easier to kill fiends. This wouldn't even be so bad, if there were an actual reason. But nothing. Not even planar experience makes sense as an explanation why these characters have special powers. It may be "balanced" by trading out other abilities, but it adds nothing to the flavor of the campaign and just perpetuates the creeping shift of the planes into a huge dungeon crawl.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 12, 2004 12:40:30 I for one, as an experience planewalker myself, am in full-agreement with the mighty blood Rhys. As if leather-headed outsiders (of the Prime variety) waltzin about the infinite turf wasn't bad enough, now they're trying to force meager limitations upon the Planes without even delving into the dark of it!

So I say, we put any berk with "planar substitution levels" next to a portal to Nessus, give'm a key, and shove'm in!

........

Okay maybe that's too evil, but still they need to pass SOME kind of test of power!
#3
sildatorak
Jul 12, 2004 13:51:08 I maybe a leatherheaded sod for this one, but I haven't heard of these planar substitution levels.
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 12, 2004 13:57:10 Then it's as blatant as Mercykiller's axe as to what you need! You need to get the Planars Handbook that just came out this month!
#5
elonarc
Jul 12, 2004 14:34:35 For everyone who hasn't been browsing on WotC's website, here are the planar substitution levels for the monk and the sorcerer . "Enjoy"
#6
MephitJames
Jul 13, 2004 15:32:31 Admittedly I haven't seen the Planar Handbook yet, but the examples on the wizards site seem pretty good. It's not really anything unfair and unbalancing, it's just a planar take on the base classes. In my opinion they are actually exactly like the planar kits in the old Planewalkers' Handbook which turned your run-of-the-mill fighter into a more useful planar cutter.
The monk gets to resist energy damage (a much more common threat than disease on the planes) although the resistance isn't perfect like the usual purity of body ability. Likewise he gets increased spell resistance but only against chaotic outsiders, which reflects planar cutters' tendency to show their alignment more strongly. A prime monk needs to be protected against enemy spellslingers, a planar monk needs to be protected against his philosophical enemies. And likewise the cold iron ki strike lets him fight planar creatures with magical damage resistance, whereas a prime monk needs to power through golem armor and bulette hide.
The sorceror is the same way, he sacrafices spell slots in order to learn metamagical tricks that help him survive the planes. They even stay true to the sorceror class in that they're "intuitive" adjustments like manipulating energy effects and spontaneous casting.
Maybe there's something in the book that I haven't seen yet, but right now I think this is a great move on the Planar Handbook's part. It definitely encourages planar campaigns, why would any prime in his right mind limit his spell resistance to chaotic outsiders only or give up a 4th level spell slot for extra punch against only extraplanars? The only way the substituted levels are worthwhile for characters is if they are spending a lot of time on the planes. That said, I like that the levels are each optional so that characters can pick and choose what they want to adjust.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 factol_rhys_dup Jul 12, 2004 12:26:16	I feel that these shouldn't be included in a planar campaign. They really just give Prime characters an advantage fighting planar creatures, giving them ways to avoid spell resistance, damage reduction, and energy resistance. Just so that it's easier to kill fiends. This wouldn't even be so bad, if there were an actual reason. But nothing. Not even planar experience makes sense as an explanation why these characters have special powers. It may be "balanced" by trading out other abilities, but it adds nothing to the flavor of the campaign and just perpetuates the creeping shift of the planes into a huge dungeon crawl.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 12:40:30	I for one, as an experience planewalker myself, am in full-agreement with the mighty blood Rhys. As if leather-headed outsiders (of the Prime variety) waltzin about the infinite turf wasn't bad enough, now they're trying to force meager limitations upon the Planes without even delving into the dark of it! So I say, we put any berk with "planar substitution levels" next to a portal to Nessus, give'm a key, and shove'm in! ........ Okay maybe that's too evil, but still they need to pass SOME kind of test of power!
#3 sildatorak Jul 12, 2004 13:51:08	I maybe a leatherheaded sod for this one, but I haven't heard of these planar substitution levels.
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 12, 2004 13:57:10	Then it's as blatant as Mercykiller's axe as to what you need! You need to get the Planars Handbook that just came out this month!
#5 elonarc Jul 12, 2004 14:34:35	For everyone who hasn't been browsing on WotC's website, here are the planar substitution levels for the monk and the sorcerer . "Enjoy"
#6 MephitJames Jul 13, 2004 15:32:31	Admittedly I haven't seen the Planar Handbook yet, but the examples on the wizards site seem pretty good. It's not really anything unfair and unbalancing, it's just a planar take on the base classes. In my opinion they are actually exactly like the planar kits in the old Planewalkers' Handbook which turned your run-of-the-mill fighter into a more useful planar cutter. The monk gets to resist energy damage (a much more common threat than disease on the planes) although the resistance isn't perfect like the usual purity of body ability. Likewise he gets increased spell resistance but only against chaotic outsiders, which reflects planar cutters' tendency to show their alignment more strongly. A prime monk needs to be protected against enemy spellslingers, a planar monk needs to be protected against his philosophical enemies. And likewise the cold iron ki strike lets him fight planar creatures with magical damage resistance, whereas a prime monk needs to power through golem armor and bulette hide. The sorceror is the same way, he sacrafices spell slots in order to learn metamagical tricks that help him survive the planes. They even stay true to the sorceror class in that they're "intuitive" adjustments like manipulating energy effects and spontaneous casting. Maybe there's something in the book that I haven't seen yet, but right now I think this is a great move on the Planar Handbook's part. It definitely encourages planar campaigns, why would any prime in his right mind limit his spell resistance to chaotic outsiders only or give up a 4th level spell slot for extra punch against only extraplanars? The only way the substituted levels are worthwhile for characters is if they are spending a lot of time on the planes. That said, I like that the levels are each optional so that characters can pick and choose what they want to adjust.