enhanced specialization - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

enhanced specialization

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
true_blue
Jul 19, 2004 1:40:41 Do you think its ok if a wizard who was say..an Abjurer..join the WoHS and be a White Robe..and decide not to take the enhanced specialization ability?

It just seems to me that losing a third school just really knocks down on the versatility of the character.

Just was wondering people's thoughts.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 19, 2004 1:49:21 I dont know....thats an interesting question.....I imagine we'll have to wait for an official answer to that one, but now I want to know....I imagine they could go ahead and do like a generalist......but then, they specialized, wouldnt more specialization be good for them.....

Thats the one thing I never liked.....that one of the schools dealing with WoHS was one that cannot be dropped at all.....darn divination anyways.....
#3
cam_banks
Jul 19, 2004 8:17:17 That's perfectly OK. In fact, you could be an evoker or conjurer and do the same thing. I would rule out specialists of schools opposed by the Order you're in, just because that's like bringing a Christmas ham to a Chanukah party, but other situations would probably be fine.

As I see it, there's quite a bit of variety among the Tower wizards. Many of them won't take more than a couple of levels of the WoHS prestige class, choosing to advance as a wizard instead. It's not the case that once you pass the Test, you need to max that class out. From a roleplaying perspective, it makes little difference whether you're a wizard 4/wizard of High Sorcery 3 or a wizard 5/wizard of High Sorcery 2, you're still a 7th-level wizard. One of them just has an Order Secret while the other has a bonus item creation or metamagic feat.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 19, 2004 11:25:51 I think that it just depends on the way you want your character to go. Even Dalamar was just a 7th level Wizard but a 10th WOHS. If you want the benefits of each class then that progression is much different.
#5
true_blue
Jul 19, 2004 13:50:53 Yea..well this question came up because I always have players make back up characters just in case something would happen to theirs, they dont have to sit out the whole session..I can incorporate their new characters in the story on the fly.

And I noticed WoHS werent really on anyone's lists and it seems like no one wants to be restricted by having 3 schools. But 2 schools isnt so bad, everyone has 1-2 schools that they dont pick a lot of spells from and can easily gotten rid of.

I dunno, I think that always has been my biggest gripe with the WoHS class...the specialization. They get a +1 to caster level and better saves...but having 3 prohibited schools just starts to really cut down on the versatility of a character.

In all honesty I worry more about the White Robes than anyone else...Abjuration and Divination arent the most powerful of schools. I know Abjuration isnt bad..but its not rockin either. I just think its easier on them if they only had 2 prohibited instead of 3.

I like the idea of not letting specialists of schools of opposing orders. Doesnt seem to me to harsh.
#6
cam_banks
Jul 19, 2004 14:21:57
Originally posted by True_Blue
In all honesty I worry more about the White Robes than anyone else...Abjuration and Divination arent the most powerful of schools. I know Abjuration isnt bad..but its not rockin either. I just think its easier on them if they only had 2 prohibited instead of 3.

Diviners only need to give up two schools in total. They give up one school at 1st level, and another when they gain their enhancement as part of the wizard of High Sorcery class.

Abjurers still need to give up three in total to get the benefits of their +1 caster level, but having a +1 caster level when you're an abjurer is very good indeed.

In any case, all three Orders can produce archmages, who only need to excel in five schools, so that's something to remember. Plus, every wizard is ultimately more versatile in terms of spell knowledge than a sorcerer will ever be.

In my campaign, the option to use the specialist variant abilities from Unearthed Arcana is available. Giving up your bonus spells, bonus feats, or summon familiar feature for school-specific abilities is a very good way to provide some variety for a wizard who'll end up with only five or six schools.

Cheers,
Cam
#7
true_blue
Jul 19, 2004 14:31:56 Yea I'm a fan of the variants that are in Unearthed Arcana. I think they add a little bit more flavor to the class, the way it was intended. I've read them over a lot and about the only ability I dont like is where you give up your bonus spells. I've always liked how the specialist gets a few more spells and if I ever played one I know I wouldnt give up that one part, but I'd let a player if they wished.

I personally believe specialists should be a prestige class. I'd let them get into it by 5th level..and thats when you chose your prohibited schools and then you couldnt cast those spells again. As the level up in it, they would gain better and better abilities that go along with their chosen school. Havent ever sat down and designed it..just thought of it a lot. Personally right now, specializing in general is a joke. You get one more spell of the school you specialize in, but you could just have all your spells but those bonus spells be from different schools. I dont thinkt hey should be restricted really bad..but if someone is a Abjurer, it'd be nice to see them cast a lot of spells from the school

The WoHS class made it a little better by having the +1 caster level, which I like, but usually I wouldnt be willing to give up 3 schools to have it. I currently have an NPC who is a White Robe who did go the enchanced specialization. A lot of times when I want to try something, I'll either use an NPC or have a bad guy use it so I can see how well it works in game.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 19, 2004 14:55:22 I have a 1st level aspirant to the White Robes who is a diviner. What would happen if in the Test he gets another color of robes?
#9
cam_banks
Jul 19, 2004 14:59:42
Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
I have a 1st level aspirant to the White Robes who is a diviner. What would happen if in the Test he gets another color of robes?

In such a case, he'd probably be given the option of choosing another specialty. He wouldn't have to worry about losing his divination spells, as you can't choose divination as an opposing school, but if he ends up being a Red Robe he may have to be a little more careful.

Cheers,
Cam
#10
zombiegleemax
Jul 22, 2004 15:50:47 Or even a black robe, tee hee.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 true_blue Jul 19, 2004 1:40:41	Do you think its ok if a wizard who was say..an Abjurer..join the WoHS and be a White Robe..and decide not to take the enhanced specialization ability? It just seems to me that losing a third school just really knocks down on the versatility of the character. Just was wondering people's thoughts.
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 19, 2004 1:49:21	I dont know....thats an interesting question.....I imagine we'll have to wait for an official answer to that one, but now I want to know....I imagine they could go ahead and do like a generalist......but then, they specialized, wouldnt more specialization be good for them..... Thats the one thing I never liked.....that one of the schools dealing with WoHS was one that cannot be dropped at all.....darn divination anyways.....
#3 cam_banks Jul 19, 2004 8:17:17	That's perfectly OK. In fact, you could be an evoker or conjurer and do the same thing. I would rule out specialists of schools opposed by the Order you're in, just because that's like bringing a Christmas ham to a Chanukah party, but other situations would probably be fine. As I see it, there's quite a bit of variety among the Tower wizards. Many of them won't take more than a couple of levels of the WoHS prestige class, choosing to advance as a wizard instead. It's not the case that once you pass the Test, you need to max that class out. From a roleplaying perspective, it makes little difference whether you're a wizard 4/wizard of High Sorcery 3 or a wizard 5/wizard of High Sorcery 2, you're still a 7th-level wizard. One of them just has an Order Secret while the other has a bonus item creation or metamagic feat. Cheers, Cam
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 19, 2004 11:25:51	I think that it just depends on the way you want your character to go. Even Dalamar was just a 7th level Wizard but a 10th WOHS. If you want the benefits of each class then that progression is much different.
#5 true_blue Jul 19, 2004 13:50:53	Yea..well this question came up because I always have players make back up characters just in case something would happen to theirs, they dont have to sit out the whole session..I can incorporate their new characters in the story on the fly. And I noticed WoHS werent really on anyone's lists and it seems like no one wants to be restricted by having 3 schools. But 2 schools isnt so bad, everyone has 1-2 schools that they dont pick a lot of spells from and can easily gotten rid of. I dunno, I think that always has been my biggest gripe with the WoHS class...the specialization. They get a +1 to caster level and better saves...but having 3 prohibited schools just starts to really cut down on the versatility of a character. In all honesty I worry more about the White Robes than anyone else...Abjuration and Divination arent the most powerful of schools. I know Abjuration isnt bad..but its not rockin either. I just think its easier on them if they only had 2 prohibited instead of 3. I like the idea of not letting specialists of schools of opposing orders. Doesnt seem to me to harsh.
#6 cam_banks Jul 19, 2004 14:21:57	Originally posted by True_Blue In all honesty I worry more about the White Robes than anyone else...Abjuration and Divination arent the most powerful of schools. I know Abjuration isnt bad..but its not rockin either. I just think its easier on them if they only had 2 prohibited instead of 3. Diviners only need to give up two schools in total. They give up one school at 1st level, and another when they gain their enhancement as part of the wizard of High Sorcery class. Abjurers still need to give up three in total to get the benefits of their +1 caster level, but having a +1 caster level when you're an abjurer is very good indeed. In any case, all three Orders can produce archmages, who only need to excel in five schools, so that's something to remember. Plus, every wizard is ultimately more versatile in terms of spell knowledge than a sorcerer will ever be. In my campaign, the option to use the specialist variant abilities from Unearthed Arcana is available. Giving up your bonus spells, bonus feats, or summon familiar feature for school-specific abilities is a very good way to provide some variety for a wizard who'll end up with only five or six schools. Cheers, Cam
#7 true_blue Jul 19, 2004 14:31:56	Yea I'm a fan of the variants that are in Unearthed Arcana. I think they add a little bit more flavor to the class, the way it was intended. I've read them over a lot and about the only ability I dont like is where you give up your bonus spells. I've always liked how the specialist gets a few more spells and if I ever played one I know I wouldnt give up that one part, but I'd let a player if they wished. I personally believe specialists should be a prestige class. I'd let them get into it by 5th level..and thats when you chose your prohibited schools and then you couldnt cast those spells again. As the level up in it, they would gain better and better abilities that go along with their chosen school. Havent ever sat down and designed it..just thought of it a lot. Personally right now, specializing in general is a joke. You get one more spell of the school you specialize in, but you could just have all your spells but those bonus spells be from different schools. I dont thinkt hey should be restricted really bad..but if someone is a Abjurer, it'd be nice to see them cast a lot of spells from the school The WoHS class made it a little better by having the +1 caster level, which I like, but usually I wouldnt be willing to give up 3 schools to have it. I currently have an NPC who is a White Robe who did go the enchanced specialization. A lot of times when I want to try something, I'll either use an NPC or have a bad guy use it so I can see how well it works in game.
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 19, 2004 14:55:22	I have a 1st level aspirant to the White Robes who is a diviner. What would happen if in the Test he gets another color of robes?
#9 cam_banks Jul 19, 2004 14:59:42	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn I have a 1st level aspirant to the White Robes who is a diviner. What would happen if in the Test he gets another color of robes? In such a case, he'd probably be given the option of choosing another specialty. He wouldn't have to worry about losing his divination spells, as you can't choose divination as an opposing school, but if he ends up being a Red Robe he may have to be a little more careful. Cheers, Cam
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 22, 2004 15:50:47	Or even a black robe, tee hee.