Kalidnay - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Kalidnay

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Mulhull
Jul 21, 2004 20:42:52 Is there an official version of what actually happened to Kalidnay. In domains of dread it said Kalidnay was destroyed (somehow) and Kalid-ma was taken into Ravenloft, where he is in a coma and his highest templar is a darklord who rules a domain.

The other version presented in psionic artifacts of Athas says that his spirit is trapped in his orbs he made, and he can be reborn if they are all brought together.

I even thought about the concept of Kalidnay never having been destroyed and still a city today, after all so many SK's have died.

And also although he wasn't a real champion, in Lynn Abbey's book rise and fall of a dragon king, it mentioned Pennarin, who since the revised ds boxed set doesn't mention a champion to kill Pyreen could be that champion (Like Pennarin of (somewhere) puliverizer of pyreen) and he could have ruled Celik after helping the other champions trap Rajaat in the hollow, and still rule it.

In that book also Kalak wasn't a champion even though it mentions in more than one source that he was, I'd like to keep it that way.
#2
Pennarin
Jul 21, 2004 22:32:16 Before *rainbows* start raining from the sky, you should make a search of the Boards for "Inconsistencies #". There's such a thread about Kalak and one about Kalid-Ma.
There's also articles on both those guys on NytCrawl's site, here.

If you really want an official answer to your conundrum, then I firstly propose to stop trying to look outside of Dark Sun for it... :P
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 5:08:31 There is an official answer somewhere but I can't seem to remember what it was exactly. I know it has been posted on these boards though. I have always felt that Kalid-Ma's body being in a coma could never be freed until the Orbs are all found and brought to him or something. I like the idea that if Kalid-Ma was put back together that he could somehow bring himself and his city back to Athas. If I was running a Dark Sun Campaign I would make a whole series of adventures out it and have it end with Kalidnay back on Athas. I think it would also help counter the fact that so many SK's are dead.

Oh, and Pennarin is the Fourth Champion of Quebec, the French Flamer. I don't know if he has enough time to be the Pulverizer of Pyreens also.
#4
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 6:13:44 Do a little search for 'Inconsistancies'. You'll turn up what your looking for.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 11:25:55 One of my many mapping projects, and I do mean many, is the mapping of Kalidnay. I have the maps from the two Ravenloft products and the maps from Merchant House of Amketch. All four of these maps show very little detail. What I need to know is wether Kalid-Ma's inner city had walls or not. Does anyone know of an obscure reference or have any thoughts or ideas of their own about this? If anyone knows of any other cartographical references about Kalidnay, please post them. They would be valuable for me.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 15:45:24 While I'm not certain by any means, I think it would be different to have a city layout that is a bit different from the rest, with provincial grounds that are not centered around themselves and enclosed to form a seperate 'subcity'. If it doesn't go against canon, try tinkering around a bit with the city plan.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 17:41:34 Thanks for the info on the walls everyone (posts and emails)! I am going to go with no inner city walls.
#8
Pennarin
Jul 26, 2004 14:05:15 I have this question about Kalidnay:

When Kalak built his ziggurat to implement his accelerated dragonhood scheme, people in this community theorised he had taken the idea and knowledge from the ruins of Kalidnay.

Now the question: If Kalak took the info from Kalid-Ma's writtings, does it mean that there once was a big zuggurat within Kalidnay's walls? (the map doesn't show a big one, only the little one in the middle of the city, but a big one could have been in the "Gorge" section of the city)
#9
Sysane
Jul 26, 2004 14:09:06 Didn't they detail Kalidnay's ziggurat in Merechent House of Amketch flip mod?
#10
Pennarin
Jul 26, 2004 14:49:56 Like I said Merchant House of Amketch - the only source for Kalidnay maps - describes a 120 ft. ziggurat in the middle of the city, and its interior is like a museum. It doesn't seem to be the kind of structure someone would use to accelerate his dragon metamorphosis. It looks like a city monument.

As far as we know Kalak's ziggurat was solid, not hollow, but had chambers below designed for an arcane ritual. The ziggurat's dimensions are about 354 ft. by 472 ft, about 3 times the size of Kalidnay's, and longer.

Was Tyr's big ziggurat Kalak's idea, or did he take the design from an actual Kalidnay structure that Kalid-Ma had had built?
#11
Sysane
Jul 26, 2004 15:01:10
Was Tyr's big ziggurat Kalak's idea, or did he take the design from an actual Kalidnay structure that Kalid-Ma had had built?

He may have copied the basic design for the ziggurat, but maybe not its the application.

Didn't Kalid-Ma have his/her Orbs to make the quick jump to full blown Dragon?
#12
Pennarin
Jul 26, 2004 15:20:28 If you recall, PAoA said that Kalid-Ma empowered 5 obsidian orbs to accelerate the metamorphosis, but doesn't say if he also built the structure that is required as a spell component for each dragon stage.

Since people on this Board theorised that Kalak found the dragon acceleration research in Kalidnay's ruins, and since we have no indication that Kalak empowered orbs in the same way Kalid-Ma did, then we can conclude that what research Kalak implemented for his scheme was a large structure, which later become Tyr's ziggurat.

Was it Nyt or Xlor who thought up the idea that Kalak pilfered Kalid-Ma's research? Can the author of the idea comment on this post please?
#13
Sysane
Jul 26, 2004 15:36:31 Kalak may have taken/stole Kalid-Ma's research, but maybe he took a step further.

Maybe Ma's ziggurat (along with the orbs) only brought half way to completing the metamorphsis where Kalak's brought you the entire way to full dragonhood. Reason bing that Kal's ziggurat was larger. Bigger equals better and faster in this case.

Just a thought.
#14
zombiegleemax
Jul 26, 2004 15:54:12 I think in this case, size is irrelevant. The focal point is what is important, not the specific dimensions. The ziggurat in Tyr was likely immense because of Kalak's own megalomania.
#15
Sysane
Jul 26, 2004 16:08:46 That, and the fact he was trying to drain the entire population of Tyr to power his transformation. I'd assume you would need a rather large structure to preform such a feat.
#16
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2004 10:45:02 Is this book worth acquiring for its Kalidnay content?

Thanks!
#17
Sysane
Jul 28, 2004 11:05:47 If you talking about the mod Merchant House of Amketch (sp?) it was a good adventure and had a good map of Kalidnay. However, don't think it hads tons of info on the city beyond the scope of the adventure.
#18
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2004 11:45:36 The products with the most info on Kalidnay (and the best maps) are the Ravenloft titles, Forbidden Lore (1079) and Domains of Dread (2174). I based the map I created for Kalidnay on these publications except I used the scale from MHoA. DoD had Kalidnay at over 40 miles wide!
#19
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2004 13:17:08 are tose good books? I like reading the DS novels but there are none more for me to read
#20
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2004 13:17:16 1
#21
nytcrawlr
Jul 28, 2004 14:21:03 I never got Forbidden Lore, but I really liked Domains of Dread, fleshed out the domains for RL pretty well.
#22
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2004 14:23:21
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I never got Forbidden Lore, but I really liked Domains of Dread, fleshed out the domains for RL pretty well.

I was wondering if it was a worthy addition to a Dark Sun collection, if the information on Kalidnay was plentiful. How many pages are there on Kalidnay anyways?
#23
zombiegleemax
Jul 28, 2004 14:27:46 There isn't to much to it. It isn't even fully Dark Sun. They tainted it with Ravenloft. ;) I bought the ESD Versions of them just for the info. The maps of Kalidnay in those documents are better than what we got in the Dark Sun material, but I don't believe you should get them just for that. It gives the basic story of Kalid-Ma and his High Templar. Describes a client village or two and not too much else. I recommend it for anyone just wanting "all" material related to Athas.
#24
nytcrawlr
Jul 28, 2004 14:37:07
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
I recommend it for anyone just wanting "all" material related to Athas.

Agreed.

As far as the taint thing, it didn't do it too much, and besides, that's the nature of Ravenloft.
#25
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2004 9:05:37 I seem to remember reading that Kalid-Ma became a dragon in the savage, animalistic stages, and Kalak, Hamanu and Borys killed him after a fight that lasted almost a day, then they destroyed Kalidnay.

Let me look through my DS stuff for that...:D
#26
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jul 30, 2004 12:18:17
Originally posted by Ablamar
I seem to remember reading that Kalid-Ma became a dragon in the savage, animalistic stages, and Kalak, Hamanu and Borys killed him after a fight that lasted almost a day, then they destroyed Kalidnay.

Let me look through my DS stuff for that...:D

For a pretty good explanation for this inconsistancy, I strongly recommend checking out Shei-Nad's article on Kalid-Ma/Kalidnay on Nytcrawlr's site.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mulhull Jul 21, 2004 20:42:52	Is there an official version of what actually happened to Kalidnay. In domains of dread it said Kalidnay was destroyed (somehow) and Kalid-ma was taken into Ravenloft, where he is in a coma and his highest templar is a darklord who rules a domain. The other version presented in psionic artifacts of Athas says that his spirit is trapped in his orbs he made, and he can be reborn if they are all brought together. I even thought about the concept of Kalidnay never having been destroyed and still a city today, after all so many SK's have died. And also although he wasn't a real champion, in Lynn Abbey's book rise and fall of a dragon king, it mentioned Pennarin, who since the revised ds boxed set doesn't mention a champion to kill Pyreen could be that champion (Like Pennarin of (somewhere) puliverizer of pyreen) and he could have ruled Celik after helping the other champions trap Rajaat in the hollow, and still rule it. In that book also Kalak wasn't a champion even though it mentions in more than one source that he was, I'd like to keep it that way.
#2 Pennarin Jul 21, 2004 22:32:16	Before rainbows start raining from the sky, you should make a search of the Boards for "Inconsistencies #". There's such a thread about Kalak and one about Kalid-Ma. There's also articles on both those guys on NytCrawl's site, here. If you really want an official answer to your conundrum, then I firstly propose to stop trying to look outside of Dark Sun for it... :P
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 5:08:31	There is an official answer somewhere but I can't seem to remember what it was exactly. I know it has been posted on these boards though. I have always felt that Kalid-Ma's body being in a coma could never be freed until the Orbs are all found and brought to him or something. I like the idea that if Kalid-Ma was put back together that he could somehow bring himself and his city back to Athas. If I was running a Dark Sun Campaign I would make a whole series of adventures out it and have it end with Kalidnay back on Athas. I think it would also help counter the fact that so many SK's are dead. Oh, and Pennarin is the Fourth Champion of Quebec, the French Flamer. I don't know if he has enough time to be the Pulverizer of Pyreens also.
#4 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 6:13:44	Do a little search for 'Inconsistancies'. You'll turn up what your looking for.
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 11:25:55	One of my many mapping projects, and I do mean many, is the mapping of Kalidnay. I have the maps from the two Ravenloft products and the maps from Merchant House of Amketch. All four of these maps show very little detail. What I need to know is wether Kalid-Ma's inner city had walls or not. Does anyone know of an obscure reference or have any thoughts or ideas of their own about this? If anyone knows of any other cartographical references about Kalidnay, please post them. They would be valuable for me.
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 15:45:24	While I'm not certain by any means, I think it would be different to have a city layout that is a bit different from the rest, with provincial grounds that are not centered around themselves and enclosed to form a seperate 'subcity'. If it doesn't go against canon, try tinkering around a bit with the city plan.
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 17:41:34	Thanks for the info on the walls everyone (posts and emails)! I am going to go with no inner city walls.
#8 Pennarin Jul 26, 2004 14:05:15	I have this question about Kalidnay: When Kalak built his ziggurat to implement his accelerated dragonhood scheme, people in this community theorised he had taken the idea and knowledge from the ruins of Kalidnay. Now the question: If Kalak took the info from Kalid-Ma's writtings, does it mean that there once was a big zuggurat within Kalidnay's walls? (the map doesn't show a big one, only the little one in the middle of the city, but a big one could have been in the "Gorge" section of the city)
#9 Sysane Jul 26, 2004 14:09:06	Didn't they detail Kalidnay's ziggurat in Merechent House of Amketch flip mod?
#10 Pennarin Jul 26, 2004 14:49:56	Like I said Merchant House of Amketch - the only source for Kalidnay maps - describes a 120 ft. ziggurat in the middle of the city, and its interior is like a museum. It doesn't seem to be the kind of structure someone would use to accelerate his dragon metamorphosis. It looks like a city monument. As far as we know Kalak's ziggurat was solid, not hollow, but had chambers below designed for an arcane ritual. The ziggurat's dimensions are about 354 ft. by 472 ft, about 3 times the size of Kalidnay's, and longer. Was Tyr's big ziggurat Kalak's idea, or did he take the design from an actual Kalidnay structure that Kalid-Ma had had built?
#11 Sysane Jul 26, 2004 15:01:10	Was Tyr's big ziggurat Kalak's idea, or did he take the design from an actual Kalidnay structure that Kalid-Ma had had built? He may have copied the basic design for the ziggurat, but maybe not its the application. Didn't Kalid-Ma have his/her Orbs to make the quick jump to full blown Dragon?
#12 Pennarin Jul 26, 2004 15:20:28	If you recall, PAoA said that Kalid-Ma empowered 5 obsidian orbs to accelerate the metamorphosis, but doesn't say if he also built the structure that is required as a spell component for each dragon stage. Since people on this Board theorised that Kalak found the dragon acceleration research in Kalidnay's ruins, and since we have no indication that Kalak empowered orbs in the same way Kalid-Ma did, then we can conclude that what research Kalak implemented for his scheme was a large structure, which later become Tyr's ziggurat. Was it Nyt or Xlor who thought up the idea that Kalak pilfered Kalid-Ma's research? Can the author of the idea comment on this post please?
#13 Sysane Jul 26, 2004 15:36:31	Kalak may have taken/stole Kalid-Ma's research, but maybe he took a step further. Maybe Ma's ziggurat (along with the orbs) only brought half way to completing the metamorphsis where Kalak's brought you the entire way to full dragonhood. Reason bing that Kal's ziggurat was larger. Bigger equals better and faster in this case. Just a thought.
#14 zombiegleemax Jul 26, 2004 15:54:12	I think in this case, size is irrelevant. The focal point is what is important, not the specific dimensions. The ziggurat in Tyr was likely immense because of Kalak's own megalomania.
#15 Sysane Jul 26, 2004 16:08:46	That, and the fact he was trying to drain the entire population of Tyr to power his transformation. I'd assume you would need a rather large structure to preform such a feat.
#16 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2004 10:45:02	Is this book worth acquiring for its Kalidnay content? Thanks!
#17 Sysane Jul 28, 2004 11:05:47	If you talking about the mod Merchant House of Amketch (sp?) it was a good adventure and had a good map of Kalidnay. However, don't think it hads tons of info on the city beyond the scope of the adventure.
#18 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2004 11:45:36	The products with the most info on Kalidnay (and the best maps) are the Ravenloft titles, Forbidden Lore (1079) and Domains of Dread (2174). I based the map I created for Kalidnay on these publications except I used the scale from MHoA. DoD had Kalidnay at over 40 miles wide!
#19 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2004 13:17:08	are tose good books? I like reading the DS novels but there are none more for me to read
#20 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2004 13:17:16	1
#21 nytcrawlr Jul 28, 2004 14:21:03	I never got Forbidden Lore, but I really liked Domains of Dread, fleshed out the domains for RL pretty well.
#22 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2004 14:23:21	Originally posted by NytCrawlr I never got Forbidden Lore, but I really liked Domains of Dread, fleshed out the domains for RL pretty well. I was wondering if it was a worthy addition to a Dark Sun collection, if the information on Kalidnay was plentiful. How many pages are there on Kalidnay anyways?
#23 zombiegleemax Jul 28, 2004 14:27:46	There isn't to much to it. It isn't even fully Dark Sun. They tainted it with Ravenloft. ;) I bought the ESD Versions of them just for the info. The maps of Kalidnay in those documents are better than what we got in the Dark Sun material, but I don't believe you should get them just for that. It gives the basic story of Kalid-Ma and his High Templar. Describes a client village or two and not too much else. I recommend it for anyone just wanting "all" material related to Athas.
#24 nytcrawlr Jul 28, 2004 14:37:07	Originally posted by Cyrus9a I recommend it for anyone just wanting "all" material related to Athas. Agreed. As far as the taint thing, it didn't do it too much, and besides, that's the nature of Ravenloft.
#25 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2004 9:05:37	I seem to remember reading that Kalid-Ma became a dragon in the savage, animalistic stages, and Kalak, Hamanu and Borys killed him after a fight that lasted almost a day, then they destroyed Kalidnay. Let me look through my DS stuff for that...:D
#26 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 30, 2004 12:18:17	Originally posted by Ablamar I seem to remember reading that Kalid-Ma became a dragon in the savage, animalistic stages, and Kalak, Hamanu and Borys killed him after a fight that lasted almost a day, then they destroyed Kalidnay. Let me look through my DS stuff for that...:D For a pretty good explanation for this inconsistancy, I strongly recommend checking out Shei-Nad's article on Kalid-Ma/Kalidnay on Nytcrawlr's site.