Item creation feats - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Item creation feats

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
the_peacebringer
Jul 23, 2004 12:34:03 As you all know, Athas is a world of low-level magic. I am in need of words of wisdom on how to handle, in a just manner, the item creation feats (since it can be relatively easy for players to make magical items).

I have a few ideas, of course: raise xp cost, raise cp cost, make materials harder to find, etc. but I wish to learn from your experiences.

Thanks.
#2
Sysane
Jul 23, 2004 12:37:34 I think if you left the material costs in gp rather than cp that would limit them or slow them down greatly.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 23, 2004 12:53:27 In my experience, the best way to limit users from creating magic items so easily is in various forms.

Xp cost I normally keep the same.

The base cost I normally keep the same and only increase it by a moderately small percentace if needed 20-30%. I do however make material more expensive and difficult to obtain. For example: a wands is made of wood or bone. I make the type of wood rarer and harder to obtain and in the case of bone, it needs to be obtained from a fairly dangerous monster.

Also, as you mentioned. Athas is a world where magic is scarce. This translates into my players having a much more difficult time aquiring spells, which includes spells needed to create magical items.
#4
the_peacebringer
Jul 23, 2004 12:55:30 QUOTE]Originally posted by Sysane
I think if you left the material costs in gp rather than cp that would limit them or slow them down greatly.
You don't think that leaving the cost in gp would make it too difficult for players to create items?
#5
Sysane
Jul 23, 2004 13:02:45 Some items they shouldn't have issues with like potion fruits.
#6
the_peacebringer
Jul 23, 2004 13:13:39
Originally posted by Xocol4tl
For example: a wands is made of wood or bone. I make the type of wood rarer and harder to obtain and in the case of bone, it needs to be obtained from a fairly dangerous monster.

I like that.
And you are right Sysane, potion fruits aren't really a problem, anyways they aren't for me.
#7
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jul 23, 2004 15:26:44
Originally posted by The PeaceBringer
As you all know, Athas is a world of low-level magic. I am in need of words of wisdom on how to handle, in a just manner, the item creation feats (since it can be relatively easy for players to make magical items).

I have a few ideas, of course: raise xp cost, raise cp cost, make materials harder to find, etc. but I wish to learn from your experiences.

Thanks.

I keep the materials cost at the gp value. of course, since arcane magic is hated, and the average person on Athas can't tell the difference between arcane and divine magic, only knowing that magic is magic - all magic on my version of Dark Sun is hated and feared by people. Magic items are outright illegal in city-states with Sorcerer-Kings still operating in them anyway, to the point of either they will be taken away, or the person in possession of them ends up in prison, placed into slavery, or worse. Outside of those city-states, since magic is so feared, most people will attack those with obvious magical items. There are no magic shops on my Athas, which also significantly limits the number of magic items to be found - and those who can make them, tend to be more than misers, they stash them away in very secretive places until it's absolutely necessary to use them. As I use a different scaling system for XP, the XP costs for making a magic item are higher, but only to balance it with the higher amount of XP my players recieve, and the higher amount needed to level.

I've toyed with the idea of making materials harder to find - but I think that only works with a handful of items. Instead of making them harder to make, I've made them far more dangerous to have.
#8
korvar
Jul 23, 2004 17:46:38 Add to that the fact that item manufacture should require a large-ish laboratory-type facility, that will be difficult for a mage to set up and maintain in secrecy.

Psionically-enchanted items, however...
#9
the_peacebringer
Jul 24, 2004 7:39:16
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
(...) Magic items are outright illegal in city-states with Sorcerer-Kings still operating in them anyway, to the point of either they will be taken away, or the person in possession of them ends up in prison, placed into slavery, or worse(...) There are no magic shops on my Athas, which also significantly limits the number of magic items to be found -(...)

I agree, magic shops are out of the question on Athas and if it is a crime to be a wizard, it would be a crime to own magical items.

I haven't thought of magical labs though, it is true that it would be hard to conceal, let alone trying to find the equipment to build it.

Thanks people, I am taking notes.
#10
the_people_dup
Jul 25, 2004 0:47:14 How does an average person distinguish beween a power and a spell? they can appear rather similar.
#11
zombiegleemax
Jul 25, 2004 4:52:22 The average person probably couldn't. They may very well think a psionic power that has a visual effect is really a spell, or that a spell (asuming it doesn't leave a defiling radius) that has no visual effect is a psionic power. This would in turn lead to some pretty miffed off templars, upset at a commoner for 'crying wolf'.
#12
korvar
Jul 25, 2004 5:06:20 I'd think it'd not be all that common; most people in Athas, especially those in cities, would see Psionic Powers being used quite a bit. A large chunk of the population have Wild Talents (or whatever the equivalent is these days), people with Psionic talents use them for pay, and so forth and so forth.

The distinctive vocal and somantic requirements of Arcane casting would stick out like a sore thumb, as would the strange material components.

That's actuall spellcasting of course. I suppose it would be harder to tell with an item. Items that imitate known Psionic powers would probably be less suspect than ones that do unfamiliar things.

In my campaign, there are Psionic Mandalas, drawings/diagrams that aid the concentration on specific Psionic tasks. Psionically-embued items tend to have those Mandalas, so that's another means of telling the difference.

And, to be frank, I'm not sure the Templars would mind that much having people "cry wolf" over powered items. One "detect magic" later and they know the truth... and if the item's interesting enough, they may confiscate the "dangerous magical item" anyway!
#13
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jul 25, 2004 9:29:43
Originally posted by The People
How does an average person distinguish beween a power and a spell? they can appear rather similar.

The average person can't distinguish between them. My basis for this is Rikus' reaction to psionics in the Prism Pentad. As such, outside of largely populated areas where there should be a small percentage of the poulation that knows the difference (namely: nobles, templars, merchant lords, etc.), even psionic characters need to watch their step.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 the_peacebringer Jul 23, 2004 12:34:03	As you all know, Athas is a world of low-level magic. I am in need of words of wisdom on how to handle, in a just manner, the item creation feats (since it can be relatively easy for players to make magical items). I have a few ideas, of course: raise xp cost, raise cp cost, make materials harder to find, etc. but I wish to learn from your experiences. Thanks.
#2 Sysane Jul 23, 2004 12:37:34	I think if you left the material costs in gp rather than cp that would limit them or slow them down greatly.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 23, 2004 12:53:27	In my experience, the best way to limit users from creating magic items so easily is in various forms. Xp cost I normally keep the same. The base cost I normally keep the same and only increase it by a moderately small percentace if needed 20-30%. I do however make material more expensive and difficult to obtain. For example: a wands is made of wood or bone. I make the type of wood rarer and harder to obtain and in the case of bone, it needs to be obtained from a fairly dangerous monster. Also, as you mentioned. Athas is a world where magic is scarce. This translates into my players having a much more difficult time aquiring spells, which includes spells needed to create magical items.
#4 the_peacebringer Jul 23, 2004 12:55:30	QUOTE]Originally posted by Sysane I think if you left the material costs in gp rather than cp that would limit them or slow them down greatly. You don't think that leaving the cost in gp would make it too difficult for players to create items?
#5 Sysane Jul 23, 2004 13:02:45	Some items they shouldn't have issues with like potion fruits.
#6 the_peacebringer Jul 23, 2004 13:13:39	Originally posted by Xocol4tl For example: a wands is made of wood or bone. I make the type of wood rarer and harder to obtain and in the case of bone, it needs to be obtained from a fairly dangerous monster. I like that. And you are right Sysane, potion fruits aren't really a problem, anyways they aren't for me.
#7 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 23, 2004 15:26:44	Originally posted by The PeaceBringer As you all know, Athas is a world of low-level magic. I am in need of words of wisdom on how to handle, in a just manner, the item creation feats (since it can be relatively easy for players to make magical items). I have a few ideas, of course: raise xp cost, raise cp cost, make materials harder to find, etc. but I wish to learn from your experiences. Thanks. I keep the materials cost at the gp value. of course, since arcane magic is hated, and the average person on Athas can't tell the difference between arcane and divine magic, only knowing that magic is magic - all magic on my version of Dark Sun is hated and feared by people. Magic items are outright illegal in city-states with Sorcerer-Kings still operating in them anyway, to the point of either they will be taken away, or the person in possession of them ends up in prison, placed into slavery, or worse. Outside of those city-states, since magic is so feared, most people will attack those with obvious magical items. There are no magic shops on my Athas, which also significantly limits the number of magic items to be found - and those who can make them, tend to be more than misers, they stash them away in very secretive places until it's absolutely necessary to use them. As I use a different scaling system for XP, the XP costs for making a magic item are higher, but only to balance it with the higher amount of XP my players recieve, and the higher amount needed to level. I've toyed with the idea of making materials harder to find - but I think that only works with a handful of items. Instead of making them harder to make, I've made them far more dangerous to have.
#8 korvar Jul 23, 2004 17:46:38	Add to that the fact that item manufacture should require a large-ish laboratory-type facility, that will be difficult for a mage to set up and maintain in secrecy. Psionically-enchanted items, however...
#9 the_peacebringer Jul 24, 2004 7:39:16	Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm (...) Magic items are outright illegal in city-states with Sorcerer-Kings still operating in them anyway, to the point of either they will be taken away, or the person in possession of them ends up in prison, placed into slavery, or worse(...) There are no magic shops on my Athas, which also significantly limits the number of magic items to be found -(...) I agree, magic shops are out of the question on Athas and if it is a crime to be a wizard, it would be a crime to own magical items. I haven't thought of magical labs though, it is true that it would be hard to conceal, let alone trying to find the equipment to build it. Thanks people, I am taking notes.
#10 the_people_dup Jul 25, 2004 0:47:14	How does an average person distinguish beween a power and a spell? they can appear rather similar.
#11 zombiegleemax Jul 25, 2004 4:52:22	The average person probably couldn't. They may very well think a psionic power that has a visual effect is really a spell, or that a spell (asuming it doesn't leave a defiling radius) that has no visual effect is a psionic power. This would in turn lead to some pretty miffed off templars, upset at a commoner for 'crying wolf'.
#12 korvar Jul 25, 2004 5:06:20	I'd think it'd not be all that common; most people in Athas, especially those in cities, would see Psionic Powers being used quite a bit. A large chunk of the population have Wild Talents (or whatever the equivalent is these days), people with Psionic talents use them for pay, and so forth and so forth. The distinctive vocal and somantic requirements of Arcane casting would stick out like a sore thumb, as would the strange material components. That's actuall spellcasting of course. I suppose it would be harder to tell with an item. Items that imitate known Psionic powers would probably be less suspect than ones that do unfamiliar things. In my campaign, there are Psionic Mandalas, drawings/diagrams that aid the concentration on specific Psionic tasks. Psionically-embued items tend to have those Mandalas, so that's another means of telling the difference. And, to be frank, I'm not sure the Templars would mind that much having people "cry wolf" over powered items. One "detect magic" later and they know the truth... and if the item's interesting enough, they may confiscate the "dangerous magical item" anyway!
#13 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 25, 2004 9:29:43	Originally posted by The People How does an average person distinguish beween a power and a spell? they can appear rather similar. The average person can't distinguish between them. My basis for this is Rikus' reaction to psionics in the Prism Pentad. As such, outside of largely populated areas where there should be a small percentage of the poulation that knows the difference (namely: nobles, templars, merchant lords, etc.), even psionic characters need to watch their step.