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Mystics got the shaft with Divine Feats

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 14:01:18 Anyone ever notice this.....a divine feat is powered by turn/rebuke attempts....something a mystic cannot do (unless of course they have the sun domain) However the sun domain thing is a bit sketchy since only one domain allows them turning attempts....is there something we can do with this? Some alternate thing a mystic can do to power the feats?
#2
cam_banks
Jul 24, 2004 14:10:13
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Anyone ever notice this.....a divine feat is powered by turn/rebuke attempts....something a mystic cannot do (unless of course they have the sun domain) However the sun domain thing is a bit sketchy since only one domain allows them turning attempts....is there something we can do with this? Some alternate thing a mystic can do to power the feats?

Nope. They really did "get the shaft" with divine feats, especially since they're not a divine class, only a divine spellcaster. They get as badly shafted by their lack of undead turning as druids or favored souls do, which is really not such a bad thing. They're just not the same as clerics.

Coming up with a number of mystic-related feats, which accomplish many of the same effects but are tied into domains and spontaneous casting rather than the use of positive or negative energy channeling, is a good idea. I could probably knock a number of those together if I had even the tiniest amount of time...

Cheers,
Cam
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 14:14:55 Now there is an idea I like Cam.....I guess I always thought of the Mystic as a divine class.... I had never made the differentiation. Much like the Sorcer and the Wizard are both Arcane classes. Got any ideas on the fly about that kinda thing Cam?
#4
cam_banks
Jul 24, 2004 14:38:17
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Now there is an idea I like Cam.....I guess I always thought of the Mystic as a divine class.... I had never made the differentiation. Much like the Sorcer and the Wizard are both Arcane classes. Got any ideas on the fly about that kinda thing Cam?

A number of things come to mind for mystics, based more or less on what we did with the Academy sorcerer from the Age of Mortals sourcebook. The Citadel mystic's mystic secrets are really just ways to empower or extend spells the mystic has known, but it might be cool to allow them to trade in a spell slot for a special ability. Here's an example:

Sensitivity Adept [Mystic]
You have achieved a greater degree of mastery over the sphere of sensitivity, allowing you to access abilities beyond the simple spells of other mystics.
Prerequisites: Ability to spontaneously cast spells from the Sensitivity domain.
Benefit: By sacrificing one of your daily spell slots, you gain an insight bonus equal to the level of the spell slot to any one Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform or Sense Motive skill check, or to any single saving throw against a mind-affecting spell or spell-like ability. Using this feat counts as a free action.

Something like that.

Cheers,
Cam
#5
zombiegleemax
Jul 24, 2004 16:07:04 Awesome Cam.....truly awesome.....now that kind of stuff Id love to see in a sort of crunchy DL Options Volume....Something of a splatbook for DL.....Maybe a players Guide to Krynn
#6
green_cloaked_sorcerer
Jul 25, 2004 13:25:18 Serena, Cam you two got me thinking. (trouble already I know) Anyways, I didn't fully understand why Favored Souls didn't get Turn/Rebuke Undead, I guess it kinda depends on your diety too, so I can see it some. Since we were discussing feats I was thinking of one I could come up with for my Favored Soul of Habbikuk.... even though I know there aren't too many undead on Krynn. Here it goes......

Repent!(working title)
Your diety as granted you the ability to turn/rebuke undead
Prerequisit Must be any Good Aligined, and must be able to cast 3rd level Divine spells
Benefit: Once perday you can cast Turn/Rebuke undead in place of one spell of any level.

and

Greater Repent!
Boy your diety really likes you..... you can cast turn/rebuke undead even more now... enjoy
Prerequisit: Repent! and must be able to cast 6th level Divine Spells
Benefit: You can cast Turn/Rebuke Undead Three times a day in place of any three spells.

Too over powered? Too under powered? I'm not to great on Mechanics, so let me know what you think and if there is anything I can do to fix it. TRRW let me know if i might be able to take either of these if not both sometime. Thanks guys and gals.

GCS...... REPENT!!!!!
#7
zombiegleemax
Jul 25, 2004 16:36:25 I would only change the working title of it......as repent is a word meaning to make up for a sin. Other than that I like it.....some may call it overpowered, but I am all for feats that allow to pick up class features......lets see it when you have the finished product!
#8
cam_banks
Jul 25, 2004 17:37:31 I'm actually fond of the undead turning variant that's in Complete Divine which replaces the turning and rebuking with actual damage to undead in the area to the tune of the cleric's level. Each time you use a turning attempt (which is really just channeling divine energy) you deal 1d6 damage to all undead creatures within a 30 ft radius. The undead get a Will save (DC 10 + half cleric level + cleric's Charisma modifier) to take half damage.

This would make for a good feat for non-cleric characters who cast divine spells. I'm in favor of preserving some of the unique traits of certain classes, wherever possible, so that a character is often forced to decide whether they multiclass and gain the benefits of another class (such as druid, to gain wild shape) or continue in their own class and enjoy the benefits of that class at higher levels. If you make undead turning available to classes that aren't built with it, you lessen the usefulness of the cleric class overall, especially when you bring in classes like the favored soul or mystic.

Cheers,
Cam
#9
zombiegleemax
Jul 25, 2004 18:17:53 Good line of thinking Cam....I hadnt really looked at it that way.....Im gonna check out the variant turning now.....lol.....that sounds like a plan
#10
green_cloaked_sorcerer
Jul 26, 2004 2:38:30 Yes I didn't even know that was in there i will have to look at it. But I did kinda think my feat was cool, but you have a point Cam. Thanks for that info I will look it up see if its somthing i might wanna cinsider using eventually.

GCS

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 14:01:18	Anyone ever notice this.....a divine feat is powered by turn/rebuke attempts....something a mystic cannot do (unless of course they have the sun domain) However the sun domain thing is a bit sketchy since only one domain allows them turning attempts....is there something we can do with this? Some alternate thing a mystic can do to power the feats?
#2 cam_banks Jul 24, 2004 14:10:13	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Anyone ever notice this.....a divine feat is powered by turn/rebuke attempts....something a mystic cannot do (unless of course they have the sun domain) However the sun domain thing is a bit sketchy since only one domain allows them turning attempts....is there something we can do with this? Some alternate thing a mystic can do to power the feats? Nope. They really did "get the shaft" with divine feats, especially since they're not a divine class, only a divine spellcaster. They get as badly shafted by their lack of undead turning as druids or favored souls do, which is really not such a bad thing. They're just not the same as clerics. Coming up with a number of mystic-related feats, which accomplish many of the same effects but are tied into domains and spontaneous casting rather than the use of positive or negative energy channeling, is a good idea. I could probably knock a number of those together if I had even the tiniest amount of time... Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 14:14:55	Now there is an idea I like Cam.....I guess I always thought of the Mystic as a divine class.... I had never made the differentiation. Much like the Sorcer and the Wizard are both Arcane classes. Got any ideas on the fly about that kinda thing Cam?
#4 cam_banks Jul 24, 2004 14:38:17	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Now there is an idea I like Cam.....I guess I always thought of the Mystic as a divine class.... I had never made the differentiation. Much like the Sorcer and the Wizard are both Arcane classes. Got any ideas on the fly about that kinda thing Cam? A number of things come to mind for mystics, based more or less on what we did with the Academy sorcerer from the Age of Mortals sourcebook. The Citadel mystic's mystic secrets are really just ways to empower or extend spells the mystic has known, but it might be cool to allow them to trade in a spell slot for a special ability. Here's an example: Sensitivity Adept [Mystic] You have achieved a greater degree of mastery over the sphere of sensitivity, allowing you to access abilities beyond the simple spells of other mystics. Prerequisites: Ability to spontaneously cast spells from the Sensitivity domain. Benefit: By sacrificing one of your daily spell slots, you gain an insight bonus equal to the level of the spell slot to any one Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform or Sense Motive skill check, or to any single saving throw against a mind-affecting spell or spell-like ability. Using this feat counts as a free action. Something like that. Cheers, Cam
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 24, 2004 16:07:04	Awesome Cam.....truly awesome.....now that kind of stuff Id love to see in a sort of crunchy DL Options Volume....Something of a splatbook for DL.....Maybe a players Guide to Krynn
#6 green_cloaked_sorcerer Jul 25, 2004 13:25:18	Serena, Cam you two got me thinking. (trouble already I know) Anyways, I didn't fully understand why Favored Souls didn't get Turn/Rebuke Undead, I guess it kinda depends on your diety too, so I can see it some. Since we were discussing feats I was thinking of one I could come up with for my Favored Soul of Habbikuk.... even though I know there aren't too many undead on Krynn. Here it goes...... Repent!(working title) Your diety as granted you the ability to turn/rebuke undead Prerequisit Must be any Good Aligined, and must be able to cast 3rd level Divine spells Benefit: Once perday you can cast Turn/Rebuke undead in place of one spell of any level. and Greater Repent! Boy your diety really likes you..... you can cast turn/rebuke undead even more now... enjoy Prerequisit: Repent! and must be able to cast 6th level Divine Spells Benefit: You can cast Turn/Rebuke Undead Three times a day in place of any three spells. Too over powered? Too under powered? I'm not to great on Mechanics, so let me know what you think and if there is anything I can do to fix it. TRRW let me know if i might be able to take either of these if not both sometime. Thanks guys and gals. GCS...... REPENT!!!!!
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 25, 2004 16:36:25	I would only change the working title of it......as repent is a word meaning to make up for a sin. Other than that I like it.....some may call it overpowered, but I am all for feats that allow to pick up class features......lets see it when you have the finished product!
#8 cam_banks Jul 25, 2004 17:37:31	I'm actually fond of the undead turning variant that's in Complete Divine which replaces the turning and rebuking with actual damage to undead in the area to the tune of the cleric's level. Each time you use a turning attempt (which is really just channeling divine energy) you deal 1d6 damage to all undead creatures within a 30 ft radius. The undead get a Will save (DC 10 + half cleric level + cleric's Charisma modifier) to take half damage. This would make for a good feat for non-cleric characters who cast divine spells. I'm in favor of preserving some of the unique traits of certain classes, wherever possible, so that a character is often forced to decide whether they multiclass and gain the benefits of another class (such as druid, to gain wild shape) or continue in their own class and enjoy the benefits of that class at higher levels. If you make undead turning available to classes that aren't built with it, you lessen the usefulness of the cleric class overall, especially when you bring in classes like the favored soul or mystic. Cheers, Cam
#9 zombiegleemax Jul 25, 2004 18:17:53	Good line of thinking Cam....I hadnt really looked at it that way.....Im gonna check out the variant turning now.....lol.....that sounds like a plan
#10 green_cloaked_sorcerer Jul 26, 2004 2:38:30	Yes I didn't even know that was in there i will have to look at it. But I did kinda think my feat was cool, but you have a point Cam. Thanks for that info I will look it up see if its somthing i might wanna cinsider using eventually. GCS